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[Android:Netrunner] The only time Bad Publicity isn't a thing to worry about.

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Posts

  • tzeentchlingtzeentchling Doctor of Rocks San DiegoRegistered User regular
    *sigh* I seem to be really bad at double elimination tournaments. Lots both games rather quickly tonight - Leela to Harmony Medtech (lesson learned - install Film Critic turn 1 if you can), and NEH Butcher to Kate. Landed the Midseasons with two scorches in hand but not enough credits to fire them both the same turn, next turn he drops a plascrete, and eventually runs through my ice to find 7 points.

    Need to step up my game for the ANRPC and Worlds!

  • EpimerEpimer Registered User regular
    I've barely played all cycle and am thinking of going to a GNK tournament this weekend because of that sweet, sweet alt art Femme. I know Noise is everywhere now, Film Critic is now a thing, and to beware the Batty, but would I be alright with taking disgusting old Fastrobiotics with 2xCyberdex, and usual Leela stuff but with Gang Sign and possibly Drug Dealer?

  • Dis'Dis' Registered User regular
    Epimer wrote: »
    I've barely played all cycle and am thinking of going to a GNK tournament this weekend because of that sweet, sweet alt art Femme. I know Noise is everywhere now, Film Critic is now a thing, and to beware the Batty, but would I be alright with taking disgusting old Fastrobiotics with 2xCyberdex, and usual Leela stuff but with Gang Sign and possibly Drug Dealer?

    Make sure Shipment from SanSan in there as well and you should be fine with Fastro.

    Epimer
  • EpimerEpimer Registered User regular
    Dis' wrote: »
    Epimer wrote: »
    I've barely played all cycle and am thinking of going to a GNK tournament this weekend because of that sweet, sweet alt art Femme. I know Noise is everywhere now, Film Critic is now a thing, and to beware the Batty, but would I be alright with taking disgusting old Fastrobiotics with 2xCyberdex, and usual Leela stuff but with Gang Sign and possibly Drug Dealer?

    Make sure Shipment from SanSan in there as well and you should be fine with Fastro.

    Oh yeah, good call. I was already playing it as pseudo-econ to allow scoring from low credits in the immediately post-O&C MaXx-siphonpocalypse, but it's basically mandatory now.

  • ChaosHatChaosHat Registered User regular
    Honestly you also don't need double cyberdex. If anything put an interns in there so you could get that back or the option of a sansan.

    Also try little engine. Faust noise doesn't like high strength code gates.

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    ArcticLancertzeentchling
  • EpimerEpimer Registered User regular
    ChaosHat wrote: »
    Honestly you also don't need double cyberdex. If anything put an interns in there so you could get that back or the option of a sansan.

    Also try little engine. Faust noise doesn't like high strength code gates.

    Two would be to make sure I actually see it against something like PPVP Kate threatening Clot, rather than being able to use it twice. Interns is an amazing card though, I always try to squeeze them in to any deck with reasonable assets.

    Little Engine is a great recommendation that I wouldn't have thought of - thanks! It's quite painful for anyone that isn't Noise too, I suppose, unless they're happy to Cutlery it. Not quite as susceptible to Emergency Shutdown/Crescentus shenanigans as Tollbooth, either.

  • Dis'Dis' Registered User regular
    ChaosHat wrote: »
    Honestly you also don't need double cyberdex. If anything put an interns in there so you could get that back or the option of a sansan.

    Also try little engine. Faust noise doesn't like high strength code gates.

    However many faust decks are also david/parasite+datasucker decks. And the possibility of facing 6-atman or 7-atman and having all the sads is pretty real. Little engine feels like a tool for a different meta in my opinion.

  • WingedWeaselWingedWeasel Registered User regular
    I never really looked into netunner spoilers since my wife and I get to play so infrequently that it wasn't uncommon there were multiple new sets available between sessions. However data and destiny had me interested due to Adam, apex, and sunny. Is it the norm that the entire box/datapack is available this far out? Do you guys proxy stuff up/hop online or instead wait for the official release?

  • LykouraghLykouragh Registered User regular
    Gentlemen! I have, on your behalf, thoroughly tested An Offer You Can't Refuse.

    It's terrible. I'm sorry. They can just refuse the offer.

  • ChaosHatChaosHat Registered User regular
    Dis' wrote: »
    ChaosHat wrote: »
    Honestly you also don't need double cyberdex. If anything put an interns in there so you could get that back or the option of a sansan.

    Also try little engine. Faust noise doesn't like high strength code gates.

    However many faust decks are also david/parasite+datasucker decks. And the possibility of facing 6-atman or 7-atman and having all the sads is pretty real. Little engine feels like a tool for a different meta in my opinion.

    The Atman thing is fair and a meta call. In the last couple tournaments I've run into one Kate total so it's not a big deal. It's alllll Anarch here.

    David is also a pretty fair complaint, although it will chew up a lot of David counters pretty quickly. I think it's like a lot of things about Faust Noise. Sure they have the tools to deal with anything, but do they have those tools right now, and what's the cost of using that tool instead of another. Especially if it's something you can use to rush out an Astro or something in the early game, and overwrite later. I think it would overall just be super annoying to toss over archives with your CVS in there.

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  • PMAversPMAvers Registered User regular
    Part of me kinda wants to see someone Chum into a Little Engine. Man, how badly do you want those credits? Enough to soak the net damage?

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    Shorty
  • LykouraghLykouragh Registered User regular
    I never really looked into netunner spoilers since my wife and I get to play so infrequently that it wasn't uncommon there were multiple new sets available between sessions. However data and destiny had me interested due to Adam, apex, and sunny. Is it the norm that the entire box/datapack is available this far out? Do you guys proxy stuff up/hop online or instead wait for the official release?

    This is an unusual thing due to FFG prereleasing a bunch of stuff at Gencon way ahead of time. Ordinarily people where I am will wait for the official release to play cards.

    Shorty
  • ShortyShorty JUDGE BROSEF Registered User regular
    PMAvers wrote: »
    Part of me kinda wants to see someone Chum into a Little Engine. Man, how badly do you want those credits? Enough to soak the net damage?

    well if they can break little engine, they can probably break chum

    unless they're using d4vid, I guess

    Tube wrote: »
    I was legit hoping that Shorty was somehow mistaken and the world wasn't that fucked
    ArcticLancer
  • ShortyShorty JUDGE BROSEF Registered User regular
    oh turns out they didn't need my help for the PAX tourney but if y'all want to meet the dude who runs ANCUR, he'll be judging

    Tube wrote: »
    I was legit hoping that Shorty was somehow mistaken and the world wasn't that fucked
    tzeentchling
  • tzeentchlingtzeentchling Doctor of Rocks San DiegoRegistered User regular
    Yeah, Little Engine gives Anarchs at least some trouble. Expensive to break with Faust, S7 so resilient to datasucker/parasite nonsense for at least a bit, David gets through exactly once. Against Kate, they just money up and break it with whatever decoder they happen to have on hand, and against Criminal - well, if they can't Inside Job/Femme it, it's expensive to break with Passport/Zu and that's almost all any Criminal uses. It does eat up two stealth credits against Refracter, though!

  • ShortyShorty JUDGE BROSEF Registered User regular
    cerb wrote an article for netrunners uk, in case anyone missed it

    state of the union for criminals, more or less

    http://netrunners.co.uk/articles/perfect blue.html

    Tube wrote: »
    I was legit hoping that Shorty was somehow mistaken and the world wasn't that fucked
  • ChaosHatChaosHat Registered User regular
    Hmmm, what kind of in faction card would address the weaknesses shown?

    What about a hardware for R&D pressure? Maybe you could do indexing on a hardware, looking at a number of cards equal to the number of tags you have? That's probably too hard a lock for a repetitive effect though. What about instead of rearranging all the cards seen, you can just choose to move one to the top of R&D. It feels like a shaper effect but maybe with the tag part it's criminal enough. Would really make you think twice about dropping a huge midseasons though.

    Or maybe you could pay for data? Maybe a resource that lets you trade credits for additional accesses off R&D. It wouldn't be permanent, each time you ran you'd have to pay up the one, two, or whatever credits per card to look. Call the card Bribery or something.

    Criminals also have no in faction AI breaker. What would be in flavor for them? X strength, X equal to the number of power counters. The first time each turn you gain credits as a result of a successful run, +1 power counter. Maybe make it virus counters? Criminals are second in viruses so that's not that far out of left field. You could try to give them a fracter but it would have to have some major caveats.

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  • ArcticLancerArcticLancer Best served chilled. Registered User regular
    Remote Backup - X
    Event
    Return X icebreakers from your heap to your grip.
    (3 inf)

    -or-

    Remote Backup - 2
    Hardware
    X, <trash>: Return X icebreakers from your heap to your grip.
    (3 inf)

    Frankly, something like this seems blatant in Criminal. They're giving us a shitload of disposable breakers and still no way to get them back. So we support the Criminal theme of spending money to get what they want (in this case some number of programs back). Events are a more Criminal thing, but it's a card in theme suited to being hardware. Each has pros and cons, so take your pick.

    I also feel Criminals could be justified having a card like this:
    Network Mapping - 2
    Event
    Gain 1 for each rezzed corp card.
    (2 inf)

    Here's something that ties into the gray-hat area of Criminals, mapping corporate mainframes and selling off the info. It also doesn't immediately play better with every criminal deck, as it very specifically supports the ones that prod a lot of angles rather than the ones that bide their time and play reactive.


    Ultimately I think @Cerberus hit the nail on the head early on in the article: Criminal was really good for a long time. They were clearly trying to combat that. I think it swung a little too far the other way, but we'll just have to wait and see how it all shakes out in the next cycle.

  • ChaosHatChaosHat Registered User regular
    Remote backup could also be justified as a resource. Hell, it makes more sense as that than sacrificial construct.

    What about like a trade in event. Discard an icebreaker from your hand, retrieve one from the heap. Gives you something to do with the redundant copies.

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  • PMAversPMAvers Registered User regular
    Network mapping feels more like a Nasir theme than Criminals. And he probably needs the help more.

    persona4celestia.jpg
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  • ArcticLancerArcticLancer Best served chilled. Registered User regular
    It's all the same boat. Shaper has a lot of overlap in that department, with Scavenge, Capstone, Trade-In, Freelance Coding Contract, and maybe some others. Mostly it's just the idea that you can very sensibly give Criminals SOMETHING.

  • ArcticLancerArcticLancer Best served chilled. Registered User regular
    edited August 2015
    PMAvers wrote: »
    Network mapping feels more like a Nasir theme than Criminals. And he probably needs the help more.
    This would make sense if Nasir was a mini-faction. But he's not. So honestly it's kind of insane. :P

    ArcticLancer on
  • EtheaEthea Registered User regular
    At 2 inf it is not impossible to splash.

  • PMAversPMAvers Registered User regular
    PMAvers wrote: »
    Network mapping feels more like a Nasir theme than Criminals. And he probably needs the help more.
    This would make sense if Nasir was a mini-faction. But he's not. So honestly it's kind of insane. :P

    Yes, but see, Crims are garbage human beings and all their ID's should be deleted.

    Pepperidge Farm remembers what they did.

    persona4celestia.jpg
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    Shorty
  • ChaosHatChaosHat Registered User regular
  • tzeentchlingtzeentchling Doctor of Rocks San DiegoRegistered User regular
    ChaosHat wrote: »

    That is fantastic. Way to go, FFG art team.

    ShortyAnzekay
  • ShortyShorty JUDGE BROSEF Registered User regular
    PMAvers wrote: »
    PMAvers wrote: »
    Network mapping feels more like a Nasir theme than Criminals. And he probably needs the help more.
    This would make sense if Nasir was a mini-faction. But he's not. So honestly it's kind of insane. :P

    Yes, but see, Crims are garbage human beings and all their ID's should be deleted.

    Pepperidge Farm remembers what they did.

    "sneakdoor sneakdoor emergency shutdown inside job"

    >:|

    Tube wrote: »
    I was legit hoping that Shorty was somehow mistaken and the world wasn't that fucked
  • tzeentchlingtzeentchling Doctor of Rocks San DiegoRegistered User regular
    Also, did anyone see the full-bleed Lotus Field playmats? They're freaking gorgeous and make me wish I had gone to PAX.

  • AnzekayAnzekay Registered User regular
    Yeah my feelings about crims basically boil down to: lack of reliable consistent economy choices (Sec testing is about it and that doesn't work against half the corps out there), lack of in-house recursion, and having to splash shitloads for breakers/R&D threat

    Cutt two of those problems out would probably make them loads more interesting to play right now.

  • Dis'Dis' Registered User regular
    I think direct R&D pressure would be too out of faction for criminals, I think they should have:
    1) More ways to move cards in R&D to other zones rather than accessing R&D directly (Fisk hopefully being the start of this)
    2) A new economic engine other than the current run-synergy and resource spam engines (as the former gets locked out and the latter is super slow). Maybe something that keys off events (Prepaid and Comet should have been criminal cards ;)) ? Mumbad spoilers hint there will be one for Geist which is nice.
    3) More ways to deal with ice - the cloud breakers are cool in Geist, but criminals as whole need something.
    4) Recursion might be out of theme, but good sacrificial construct type effects shouldn't be.

  • ArcticLancerArcticLancer Best served chilled. Registered User regular
    The ironic thing about PPVP in Criminals is that you're still using it to pay for neutral events. All the Criminal cards that make you money are either free or not events. =_=

  • BogartBogart I Will Cure You Registered User, Moderator mod
    I dunno if Criminals need a boost so much as PPVP Kate needs a counter. But what's going to counter her that doesn't also bone every other runner?

    When Data and Destiny come out Criminals will be able to Feint and Inside Job the centrals and then Apocalypse everything on the board. Which will be nice.

  • Dis'Dis' Registered User regular
    edited September 2015
    Bogart wrote: »
    I dunno if Criminals need a boost so much as PPVP Kate needs a counter. But what's going to counter her that doesn't also bone every other runner?

    When Data and Destiny come out Criminals will be able to Feint and Inside Job the centrals and then Apocalypse everything on the board. Which will be nice.

    Well Kate and Noise are probably the best runners right now, and one of their major pillars (outside recursion which is already hated on) is installing at ability speed. Since lots of runners (especially criminals) don't rely on this to such an extent it seems like an appropriate thing to make hate cards for?

    I do want to try Eater/Apocalypse out of Ken :)

    Dis' on
  • PMAversPMAvers Registered User regular
    edited September 2015
    New article up talking about Sunny.

    EDIT: Kind of a crazy idea I've had floating around in my head, using Surfer to bring Kit back. When they rez something, ride it all the way to the inside of the server, give it code gate, and then Cyber-Cipher your way through to the good stuff. Maybe London Library to bring the dogs back to your hand in case you need to move them around?

    EDIT 2: Oh, wait, it's barrier-only. Still, eh, not might be too bad still. Hrm, maybe with Tinkering to make sure the first ICE has it... or paintbrush for later on when there's a rezzzed ICE on the outside...

    PMAvers on
    persona4celestia.jpg
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  • AnzekayAnzekay Registered User regular
    I've seen some decks going around with Surfer in Quetzal

    Sounds pretty fun to me

  • Dis'Dis' Registered User regular
    PMAvers wrote: »
    New article up talking about Sunny.

    EDIT: Kind of a crazy idea I've had floating around in my head, using Surfer to bring Kit back. When they rez something, ride it all the way to the inside of the server, give it code gate, and then Cyber-Cipher your way through to the good stuff. Maybe London Library to bring the dogs back to your hand in case you need to move them around?

    EDIT 2: Oh, wait, it's barrier-only. Still, eh, not might be too bad still. Hrm, maybe with Tinkering to make sure the first ICE has it... or paintbrush for later on when there's a rezzzed ICE on the outside...

    But thats why its good in Kit - you can face check with the security of your ability, and once the outermost ice is rezzed you can paintbrush it and surf in. Since your shaper you can tutor up surfer and paintbrush no prob :).

  • PMAversPMAvers Registered User regular
    edited September 2015
    Also probably will be fun to completely mess with arses that play Curtain Wall.

    Whoops, it's no longer outermost on the server.

    Also could be fun to combo with Escher to set up big digs on the cheap.

    PMAvers on
    persona4celestia.jpg
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  • ShortyShorty JUDGE BROSEF Registered User regular
    Dis' wrote: »
    PMAvers wrote: »
    New article up talking about Sunny.

    EDIT: Kind of a crazy idea I've had floating around in my head, using Surfer to bring Kit back. When they rez something, ride it all the way to the inside of the server, give it code gate, and then Cyber-Cipher your way through to the good stuff. Maybe London Library to bring the dogs back to your hand in case you need to move them around?

    EDIT 2: Oh, wait, it's barrier-only. Still, eh, not might be too bad still. Hrm, maybe with Tinkering to make sure the first ICE has it... or paintbrush for later on when there's a rezzzed ICE on the outside...

    But thats why its good in Kit - you can face check with the security of your ability, and once the outermost ice is rezzed you can paintbrush it and surf in. Since your shaper you can tutor up surfer and paintbrush no prob :).

    but you can do that in any shaper

    Tube wrote: »
    I was legit hoping that Shorty was somehow mistaken and the world wasn't that fucked
  • Dis'Dis' Registered User regular
    Shorty wrote: »
    Dis' wrote: »
    PMAvers wrote: »
    New article up talking about Sunny.

    EDIT: Kind of a crazy idea I've had floating around in my head, using Surfer to bring Kit back. When they rez something, ride it all the way to the inside of the server, give it code gate, and then Cyber-Cipher your way through to the good stuff. Maybe London Library to bring the dogs back to your hand in case you need to move them around?

    EDIT 2: Oh, wait, it's barrier-only. Still, eh, not might be too bad still. Hrm, maybe with Tinkering to make sure the first ICE has it... or paintbrush for later on when there's a rezzzed ICE on the outside...

    But thats why its good in Kit - you can face check with the security of your ability, and once the outermost ice is rezzed you can paintbrush it and surf in. Since your shaper you can tutor up surfer and paintbrush no prob :).

    but you can do that in any shaper

    Yeah but in Kit you can do it with just a decoder, other shapers will need a full breaker suite or more clicks spent on paintbrush :)

  • ArcticLancerArcticLancer Best served chilled. Registered User regular
    edited September 2015
    But she can't. Surfer specifically targets barriers, so while she can break a barrier as a code gate and make that work, she can't touch any non-barrier ICE without the same help everyone else needs. I'll give you that it is a benefit, but it's a pretty minor one, and they can then counter it by installing anything else afterwards.

    ArcticLancer on
This discussion has been closed.