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[PA Comic] Friday, November 28, 2014 - Values

DogDog Registered User, Administrator, Vanilla Staff admin
edited November 2014 in The Penny Arcade Hub
Unknown User on

Posts

  • dmautzdmautz Registered User regular
    Ah yes. Research is good to do. But TVs aren't computer parts. Some people like to helicopter over contrast ratios and how black a black pixel is. At this point a TV is a TV unless you have laser vision. I'm not willing to spend 80% more for a 20% better picture that I would probably hardly notice.

  • bwaniebwanie Posting into the void Registered User regular
    true as that may be, the (i think) imaginary screenio brand has some real-life analogues that would deliver a viewing experience less than optimal even by your standards.

  • ReplicanttenReplicantten Registered User regular
    'If you do what I do, I'll kill you.' - Business as usual in the realm of sad and troubled race.

  • PlatyPlaty Registered User regular
    edited November 2014
    I now have a screen on which black actually looks black and it's so great!

    It actually makes a lot of difference if you play very dark games like Amnesia, Alien or Dark Souls.

    Platy on
  • MarcinMNMarcinMN Registered User regular
    I put a decent amount of thought into my computers since I've built my last two from parts.

    With TVs, I at least know what everything means so I can avoid getting something truly crappy. However, I also avoid the super expensive TVs because I don't feel what they offer is worth the kind of money they ask. With TVs it seems like you're damned if you do and damned if you don't nowadays, my first flat screen was a 720p because I didn't know as much about the stats back then. Everything looked nice enough for me to be satisfied, but when it died, I upgraded to 1080p. Now I will admit that the blu-rays look much better, but now many of my older DVDs look like crap. Just can't win....except maybe if you buy the super expensive TVs. ;)

    I do hate comparison shopping in most things though. I never do the "shop around" thing. I may not buy the cheapest item/service available (in fact, I probably wouldn't), but I do usually just buy it at the first place I decide to go.

    "It's just as I've always said. We are being digested by an amoral universe."

    -Tycho Brahe
  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    Since this is a Black Friday comic, I think it's safe to say that yes, companies like Wal-Mart, Best Buy, and other electronics retailers put some really shitty TVs on sale on this day. Brands you've never heard of, until the moment the super cheap price tag is staring you in the face. It's because these TVs really are that bad. Either they will have a poor image, which has already been discussed. Or more likely, they have a very high fail chance. Screen goes out entirely, or you develop "dead pixel" or it stops turning on, or you get lines on the screen, or whatever.

    Things are cheap for a reason. It's because they use shitty parts and are expected to fail.

  • GDT1985GDT1985 Registered User regular
    I bought a 40 inch TV from Wal-Mart two years ago on Black Friday. I have had to replace a part in it twice. But a $30 part is still cheaper than a new TV. But yeah cheap things are made of cheap parts.

  • DjiemDjiem Registered User regular
    edited November 2014
    It's interesting. For some people, the computer parts absolutely don't matter because they just go online and do whatever, while the TV is hooked to the home theater, and to their video game consoles, and they want the best fucking picture out there. Meanwhile, some people think that the TV is just like any other TV and if it works it works, they might not be huge movie fans, and they do their gaming on PC primarily, which is why they'll shop around and get the absolute nicest machine at a good price.

    But both people are absolutely convinced the other one is an idiot.

    Djiem on
  • Robotic DraconianRobotic Draconian Registered User regular
    Seeing as they've never heard of the brand, I can only assume it's a shit TV, as any good quality machinery is usually developed by well known companies with billions of dollars at their disposal. And even then, that's still an iffy bet to go off of.

  • DirtyDirtyVagrantDirtyDirtyVagrant Registered User regular
    dmautz wrote: »
    Ah yes. Research is good to do. But TVs aren't computer parts. Some people like to helicopter over contrast ratios and how black a black pixel is. At this point a TV is a TV unless you have laser vision. I'm not willing to spend 80% more for a 20% better picture that I would probably hardly notice.

    That's a good philosophy if you want a crappy TV with dying pixels, shitty resolution, and really long response time.

    Personally I like a good picture and minimal input lag, so the quality of the monitor is actually pretty important.

  • jothkijothki Registered User regular
    Raestloz wrote: »
    The worst a bad TV can do is make colors look washed out, the worst a bad PC part can do is drag your condemned rig all the way to Underpowered Hell

    A bad TV can cut off large portions of the screen edges while offering you no way to fix it.

  • LinktmLinktm Registered User regular
    As somebody with a "Viore" TV can confirm... after buying an XB1 I found out that my screen overscans and there's no way to change that on this TV. So, unless the game lets me change my display scale/size I am SOL (since the XB1 doesn't let you do that either.) Whooooops.

  • GaslightGaslight Registered User regular
    This holiday season it seems like I am seeing the "Changhong" TV's from China everywhere advertised for extremely low prices. Wouldn't take the chance personally, although apparently they make their own panels (which I guess could be either good or bad) and I suspect they're the ones actually making a lot of the off-brand TV's like the "Insignias" at Best Buy.

  • LostNinjaLostNinja Registered User regular
    edited November 2014
    jothki wrote: »
    Raestloz wrote: »
    The worst a bad TV can do is make colors look washed out, the worst a bad PC part can do is drag your condemned rig all the way to Underpowered Hell

    A bad TV can cut off large portions of the screen edges while offering you no way to fix it.

    This right here is the problem I encountered the one time I bought a TV that was a Black Friday deal.

    LostNinja on
  • dletodleto Registered User regular
    Gaslight wrote: »
    This holiday season it seems like I am seeing the "Changhong" TV's from China everywhere advertised for extremely low prices. Wouldn't take the chance personally, although apparently they make their own panels (which I guess could be either good or bad) and I suspect they're the ones actually making a lot of the off-brand TV's like the "Insignias" at Best Buy.

    As someone who actually works selling TV's inside best buy I can tell you Insignia which is best buys brand is manufactured by LG and Vizios are made by Sony. I will also let you guys know the reason those black friday tvs are so cheap is not that there is necessarily anything defective with them but rather that they skimp on one or more features. For example the Samsung 4k tv they had going for about $800 is only a 60hz refresh rate screen which is god awful for anything with any degree of motion.

  • GaslightGaslight Registered User regular
    edited November 2014
    dleto wrote: »
    Gaslight wrote: »
    This holiday season it seems like I am seeing the "Changhong" TV's from China everywhere advertised for extremely low prices. Wouldn't take the chance personally, although apparently they make their own panels (which I guess could be either good or bad) and I suspect they're the ones actually making a lot of the off-brand TV's like the "Insignias" at Best Buy.

    As someone who actually works selling TV's inside best buy I can tell you Insignia which is best buys brand is manufactured by LG and Vizios are made by Sony. I will also let you guys know the reason those black friday tvs are so cheap is not that there is necessarily anything defective with them but rather that they skimp on one or more features. For example the Samsung 4k tv they had going for about $800 is only a 60hz refresh rate screen which is god awful for anything with any degree of motion.

    Good to know who makes Insignia and Vizio (and reinforces my hunch that Vizio is my best bang for the buck when I buy a TV for my new place in a month or two). But I think you'll find that here again not everybody is as particular about some of these technical things as you are; they literally just cannot "see" the difference. I am typing this on a 60hz monitor that I use for all my gaming, had a 60hz TV purchased in early 2013 that my and my roommates were always quite pleased with, etc. Looking at the selection of TV's on BestBuy.com right now, it looks like 60hz TV's make up about half of the entire selection, and I hardly think everybody who buys them is just using them to look at still photos from their last vacation. You spend your entire day working with TV's and you doubtlessly become more aware of all of the subtle differences in picture quality. For the average person this is not the case.

    Gaslight on
  • Zoku GojiraZoku Gojira Monster IslandRegistered User regular
    edited November 2014
    Seeing as they've never heard of the brand, I can only assume it's a shit TV, as any good quality machinery is usually developed by well known companies with billions of dollars at their disposal. And even then, that's still an iffy bet to go off of.

    This.

    The specs don't tell the whole story. The brand isn't everything, but it's an indicator that someone with a reputation to lose made the set. Reviews are vitally important, and they're hard to come by on the kind of holiday-specific SKUs that tend to show up for the annual run on cheap inches.

    The way TV prices have fallen, you're not spending much extra to step up from the low-end to something respectable for gaming. I've seen the difference it makes when refresh rate is high and input lag is low.

    Zoku Gojira on
    "Because things are the way they are, things will not stay the way they are." - Bertolt Brecht
  • GDT1985GDT1985 Registered User regular
    Seeing as they've never heard of the brand, I can only assume it's a shit TV, as any good quality machinery is usually developed by well known companies with billions of dollars at their disposal. And even then, that's still an iffy bet to go off of.

    The TV I mentioned above is an Emerson, a "cheap" brand. However when I opened it up, the parts have philips-magnavox on them. Make of that what you will. I assume Emerson is a cheaper parted off shoot.

  • PAX_SkeletorPAX_Skeletor Melbourne, AustraliaRegistered User regular
    I know a genuine Panaphonics when I see it.

  • MichaelLCMichaelLC In what furnace was thy brain? ChicagoRegistered User regular
    I know a genuine Panaphonics when I see it.

    Now a SORNY offers real quality at a discount price.

  • GaslightGaslight Registered User regular
    Raestloz wrote: »
    jothki wrote: »
    A bad TV can cut off large portions of the screen edges while offering you no way to fix it.

    The worst TV that I have cuts off a bit of the peripheral vision, something like... IDK, maybe 3,5% of the vertical screen? That's an old-timey cathode TV 4:3, with curved screen. Wouldn't the worst a bad flat-screen LCD TV can do is offer abnormal resolution thus making the screen squished?

    No, it "overscans" and the effect is basically that it "zooms in" on the center of the picture, so you lose stuff at every edge.

  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    it's not even a matter of whether the difference is noticeable, it's a matter of how much the user actually cares. You'll easily notice the difference between low and high-end LCDs when playing games and watching action movies or sports, but is the difference large enough that it matters to you? Is it worth potentially hundreds of dollars to get the better version?

    hold your head high soldier, it ain't over yet
    that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
  • demonfalldowndemonfalldown Registered User regular
    edited November 2014
    dleto wrote: »
    Gaslight wrote: »
    This holiday season it seems like I am seeing the "Changhong" TV's from China everywhere advertised for extremely low prices. Wouldn't take the chance personally, although apparently they make their own panels (which I guess could be either good or bad) and I suspect they're the ones actually making a lot of the off-brand TV's like the "Insignias" at Best Buy.

    As someone who actually works selling TV's inside best buy I can tell you Insignia which is best buys brand is manufactured by LG and Vizios are made by Sony. I will also let you guys know the reason those black friday tvs are so cheap is not that there is necessarily anything defective with them but rather that they skimp on one or more features. For example the Samsung 4k tv they had going for about $800 is only a 60hz refresh rate screen which is god awful for anything with any degree of motion.

    Not sure where this rumor started but Sony has nothing to do with Vizio. I have a lot of customers that think that too. They even had a patent suit not long ago. Agree with everything else though.

    demonfalldown on
  • MarcinMNMarcinMN Registered User regular
    MichaelLC wrote: »
    I know a genuine Panaphonics when I see it.

    Now a SORNY offers real quality at a discount price.

    Pfft, nothing beats "The Carnivale..."

    "It's just as I've always said. We are being digested by an amoral universe."

    -Tycho Brahe
  • GDT1985GDT1985 Registered User regular
    I once bought a second hand TV named "Megatron".

  • Rhesus PositiveRhesus Positive GNU Terry Pratchett Registered User regular
    GDT1985 wrote: »
    I once bought a second hand TV named "Megatron".

    Worked great until the day it tried to beat up your stereo.

    [Muffled sounds of gorilla violence]
  • Monkey Ball WarriorMonkey Ball Warrior A collection of mediocre hats Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    The comic is amusing because I have never felt that there was a real difference between monitors and TV's, except in their intended purpose. Monitors used to be higher resolution, now it is more that they are high pixel density. TVs come in bigger sizes than monitor do, with monitors rarely come with remotes.. And monitors and TV's tend to support different inputs. But that's about the end of the differences.

    My monitor currently is a small 1080p TV. I bought it ~4 years ago. I am going to replace it sometime later next year when 1) 4k Adaptive Sync monitors start coming out, and 2) Skylake CPUs and hopefully a new generation of GPUs come out, at which point I will build a box capable of driving a 4k monitor.

    Which makes me wonder if someday there will be game consoles and TVs that support adaptive sync as well.

    "I resent the entire notion of a body as an ante and then raise you a generalized dissatisfaction with physicality itself" -- Tycho
  • mRahmanimRahmani DetroitRegistered User regular
    I used to think along the same lines as Tycho with regard to TVs, but when it was time to buy my own I figured I would at least do a little research so I wouldn't get completely screwed. After reading some glowing bang-for-buck reviews about the now out-of-production Panasonic ST-series plasmas, I brought a 50" one home. It was more money than I was planning to spend, but it looked damned good in my apartment and I was pretty happy with it.

    Fast forward 2 years, my in-laws just picked up a massive 65" Visio on Friday for 2/3 the price of my Panasonic. So we sat down to watch Captain America and the quality difference was stunning. The most egregious problem was bright white bars running up each side of the TV from the LED backlighting, but dark scenes in general looked like crap because the best the TV could manage was a sort of dark grey.

  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited December 2014
    dleto wrote: »
    Gaslight wrote: »
    This holiday season it seems like I am seeing the "Changhong" TV's from China everywhere advertised for extremely low prices. Wouldn't take the chance personally, although apparently they make their own panels (which I guess could be either good or bad) and I suspect they're the ones actually making a lot of the off-brand TV's like the "Insignias" at Best Buy.

    As someone who actually works selling TV's inside best buy I can tell you Insignia which is best buys brand is manufactured by LG and Vizios are made by Sony. I will also let you guys know the reason those black friday tvs are so cheap is not that there is necessarily anything defective with them but rather that they skimp on one or more features. For example the Samsung 4k tv they had going for about $800 is only a 60hz refresh rate screen which is god awful for anything with any degree of motion.
    The last TV I bought (about 5 years ago I think; shows you how much I update my technology) was actually an Insignia. I needed a TV "now" and didn't want to spend too much, so I went to Best Buy and got one. It's not a horrible TV, but it does have some weird issues. If LG makes them, they must be half-assing it on the quality compared to their own brand.

    forty on
  • Donovan PuppyfuckerDonovan Puppyfucker A dagger in the dark is worth a thousand swords in the morningRegistered User regular
    GDT1985 wrote: »
    I once bought a second hand TV named "Megatron".

    Ahhh, the good ol' Grundig Decepticon. Named Megatron to latch on to the popularity of Sony's Trinitron sets.

  • MarcinMNMarcinMN Registered User regular
    GDT1985 wrote: »
    I once bought a second hand TV named "Megatron".

    Every time you turn it on, it says, "I am Megatron!" ;)

    "It's just as I've always said. We are being digested by an amoral universe."

    -Tycho Brahe
  • GDT1985GDT1985 Registered User regular
    I wish, that would have been awesome.

  • MichaelLCMichaelLC In what furnace was thy brain? ChicagoRegistered User regular
    Looking at images of tube TVs - of which I had several - they were all hideous. Awful grey or black boxes with ugly vents and big fake speaker grills.

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