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[PA Comic] Friday, December 5, 2014 - Tradition
Dog
Registered User, Administrator, Vanilla Staff admin
Registered User, Administrator, Vanilla Staff admin
[PA Comic] Friday, December 5, 2014 - Tradition
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Hitler's government banned hunting with dogs, for example.
http://www.express.co.uk/life-style/science-technology/543583/GTA-5-Rockstar-ban-Grand-Theft-Auto-V-Australia-Target-Kmart
Though the burning is still p overboard, Mark!
It's good to see an unbiased objective evaluation of this comic.
Lucky they didn't use any of those terms in the comic, then.
Which is not analogous to a private retailer doing what it wants voluntarily.
A nazi comparison encompasses and implies a whole load of terms, Mr. Lawyer.
That's "certainly" an "opinion".
So this was a spontaneous decision on the behalf of Target, not prompted by anything?
Especially not a petition made by people who wish to dictate what media others can consume?
The line between government and corporations perpetrating something immoral is such a nonsense arguments. I don't buy this whole "It's only censorship if the government does it" argument. What other immoral acts are only immoral when the government does them? Is there a single other act we allow that to be an excuse for?
Also, since Nazi's are in the conversation, Hitler had the willing help of most captains of industry in Germany.
It's also worth pointing out the Target Australia is a wholly different company from Target Corporation in US/Canada. The decisions of one have nothing to do with the other.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Target_Australia
They also burnt books.
Which is what this Ben chap is talking about. It is a Nazi thing to do, optics-wise, not, "We are now Nazis and all that entails."
This isn't a statement by Mike and Jerry re: the decision of Target Australia. It's a comic that starts with a news article basically, and spirals in a silly conversation between two people. They do that often.
Prohibition maybe?
When the government does it, it's "evil" but when my friends do it, it's called an "intervention" or "being responsible".
I'll say when I have enough dammit! Don't you prohibit me, Larry!!
Taxes.
When the government does it, it is to repair roads and pay for utilities and services, but when kids in school do it, it's bullying.
(to be fair, the bully wasn't going to use the money to better your life, like the government is supposed to)
And FYI, I'm not sure if you've been reading beyond the headlines, but Target's move in AU has prompted numerous other retailers to follow suit.
Does it count as censorship when most retailers censor themselves? Is it censorship yet when all retailers in a country just decide not to carry something that there is still massive demand for?
Would you be equally as blase about this if it were your country or a game you wanted?
On a more serious note, I don't know that I can call it censorship, as this word has a specific meaning, and this isn't state-enforced or a law, but I do agree with you that corporations have some sort of "censoring" power by making a product unavailable for people to consume. If Target's move prompts other large retailers to also pull the game off the shelves, this means they do have a power in controlling what media people can and can't consume.
To a certain degree only. Australians could still find stores that do carry GTA V, or order it online. It's not been BANNED, it's not illegal to have the game. Only certain retailers don't carry it now.
This is why it's not actually censorship, but it is still problematic that large corporation who bend to the will of moral panic groups have such a power over the availability of media that people consume.
A lot of gamers here. All violent with their violent video games.
You know who else just "joked around"?
Yeah. You think about that.
Besides, if Target Corporation owned Target Australia, they'd probably still be selling the game. Target Corp in the USA only pulls things from shelves if they're not selling as fast as they'd like, and maybe sometimes if the product is a colossal controversy, which, to them, GTA is not that at this point.
And it's also worth noting that the Australian Kmart probably has nothing to do with the North American Sears Holdings, which owns Kmart in the USA, and it appears they've also pulled it from their shelves.
It's just Kmart Australia that I've read so far, which has the same parent company in Australia as Target Australia (Coles Group). I'd expect other brands in their company to follow suit. Now, is there anyone else outside the Coles Group brands that's pulling the game from shelves in Australia?
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You can't give someone a pirate ship in one game, and then take it back in the next game. It's rude.
freedom of speech has never meant "unrestricted right to sell my product at stores". Rockstar continues to be free to create their prostitute murder simulators. consumers remain free to tell retailers they don't like such products.
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I can't speak for other countries, but in America this would never happen in a billion years because companies like to make money, and in a relatively free market they will sell whatever makes money, so this is a pretty academic (and not very relevant) question. Only if there were extremely limited demand would all retailers pull something based on societal pressure, and if the demand were extremely limited then the product wouldn't have been successful outside of niche market / independent delivery in the first place. This is why, from an American perspective, government censorship is the type that raises concerns. Like others said, there's a huge difference between something being hard to come by or having limited availability and something being illegal.
http://cheezburger.com/8393884160
Some of us are sensitive about the Northern Crusades, OK - the Livonian Brothers of the Sword were bastards
It says one thing therefore let's pretend it says a bunch of other things too.
If that's the whole point of the comic, I must be reading it wrong.
Personal. Responsibility.
If the book offends you, don't read it. If the game upsets you, don't play it. If the artist's works goagainst your beliefs, don't go to the exhibit. Simple as that.
The personal responsibility argument ain't gonna cut it anymore. I mean, it could, if that's what you're into, but Target AU delisted GTAV because a group said it is "harmful". There is an entire intellectual apparatus that has been built up as of late so that people can straightfacedly call media harmful in one breath while pretending that our natural inclination toward harmful things isn't to destroy, alter, or remove the fuck out of them. It's a remarkably successful one too.
But you are ultimately right. It's not censorship as long as it's just Target, and it's not censorship so long as we're only prodding the ponderous beast that is the modern consumer-focused corporation with the branding iron of moral outrage one at a time. It's not Target's fault that it's ambling away, because sticking its ass deeper into it doesn't make sense in any time frame it can understand.
Remember, one dumb cow moving on from pain is nothing special. It's only when we're moving them all at once that the driver has something special in mind.
not as simple. art affects culture and how society views people. for example, books, television, music, and film all have a powerful effect on the way we discuss and view gender. a simple example would be the Barbie doll and the numerous commercials young girls are bombarded with each day. in those commercials, there are messages of "if i want to be a cool girl, i will look like or do this thing."
the Bible thing is actually ironically hilarious, because it proves the point: the Bible is probably one of the most influential texts in the entirety of human history. humans have based entire civilizations on that book. many people base their entire moral code and how they behave on the Bible's text. if anything, the Bible is the ultimate example of art affecting human behavior.
personal responsibility is a two way street. individuals have responsibility on how they should conduct themselves, but those creating culture also have a responsibility on how their works affect people.
i'm in no way advocating for Jack Thompson-style censorship. what society considers valuable and not-valuable speech should always be left up to society and to people to choose and debate. and that is what this is.
again, Rockstar is entirely free to develop, publish, and sell GTA. Rockstar is not entitled to a specific platform to sell their work. that's the free market for you.
steam | Dokkan: 868846562