For some reason I took it that Reach was actually far out compared to Earth and stuff, but honestly I can forgive the weak story for the excellent art direction. Reach also gives a good look at how different Spartan 2s and 3s were, I think scale is something the first Halo games struggled with.
I fired up my copy of Reach (I should really get me an Xbox 1 at some point) and I have one plot-related question
How the fuck did the Covenant sneak a massive Carrier into orbit around reach, the centre of the UNSC military
Because the plot of Reach is actually pretty dumb and aimless.
There really isn't a reasonable explanation.
Large fleets and objects sneaking up on stationary things that should be able to see them coming through void of space is old hat Bungie writing.
edit: there's no way for them to have gotten there otherwise, Biz? Unless there's some other space transit thing I'm not aware of. But they were there (on the ground too) and hitting comms and whatnot before the UNSC could even react, if I'm remembering the first stage of Reach correctly.
tastydonuts on
“I used to draw, hard to admit that I used to draw...”
I'm not super well versed in the background, but my impression was that
there was nothing stopping the Covenant fleet from going where they wanted, hence the focus on hiding Earth's location. By Reach humanity was already losing planets left and right. Between Reach and Halo 2 the Covenant had rolled through all the colonies in their way, and in Halo 2 they were invading Earth.
If the question is about how they snuck a carrier around, my impression is that long range detection is very limited in the Halo universe. In Halo 2 you're in an award ceremony, they detect the Covenant fleet, open fire in less than a minute, and then you're being boarded. You really want to be the invader and not the invadee.
I'm not super well versed in the background, but my impression was that
there was nothing stopping the Covenant fleet from going where they wanted, hence the focus on hiding Earth's location. By Reach humanity was already losing planets left and right. Between Reach and Halo 2 the Covenant had rolled through all the colonies in their way, and in Halo 2 they were invading Earth.
If the question is about how they snuck a carrier around, my impression is that long range detection is very limited in the Halo universe. In Halo 2 you're in an award ceremony, they detect the Covenant fleet, open fire in less than a minute, and then you're being boarded. You really want to be the invader and not the invadee.
True, but:
Slipstream detection is a known thing in the Halo games?
And I think that they also have the "can't jump near gravity wells" rule too, but that kind of gets ignored. a lot/
“I used to draw, hard to admit that I used to draw...”
I fired up my copy of Reach (I should really get me an Xbox 1 at some point) and I have one plot-related question
How the fuck did the Covenant sneak a massive Carrier into orbit around reach, the centre of the UNSC military
Do we even know how hyperspace jump tech works? Is there a max range? Do ships need to make pit-stops? Is there even a way to track a ship (or ships) that are currently in hyperspace (if you don't know that said ship/ships are coming)? I haven't read any of the novels (the only thing I know is the whole Cole Protocol thing...but I'm pretty sure that only applies to when you're currently actively escaping from a Covenant attack), so maybe it's covered in there.
| Origin/R*SC: Ein7919 | Battle.net: Erlkonig#1448 | XBL: Lexicanum | Steam: Der Erlkönig (the umlaut is important) |
I fired up my copy of Reach (I should really get me an Xbox 1 at some point) and I have one plot-related question
How the fuck did the Covenant sneak a massive Carrier into orbit around reach, the centre of the UNSC military
Do we even know how hyperspace jump tech works? Is there a max range? Do ships need to make pit-stops? Is there even a way to track a ship (or ships) that are currently in hyperspace (if you don't know that said ship/ships are coming)? I haven't read any of the novels (the only thing I know is the whole Cole Protocol thing...but I'm pretty sure that only applies to when you're currently actively escaping from a Covenant attack), so maybe it's covered in there.
I'm not super well versed in the background, but my impression was that
there was nothing stopping the Covenant fleet from going where they wanted, hence the focus on hiding Earth's location. By Reach humanity was already losing planets left and right. Between Reach and Halo 2 the Covenant had rolled through all the colonies in their way, and in Halo 2 they were invading Earth.
If the question is about how they snuck a carrier around, my impression is that long range detection is very limited in the Halo universe. In Halo 2 you're in an award ceremony, they detect the Covenant fleet, open fire in less than a minute, and then you're being boarded. You really want to be the invader and not the invadee.
True, but:
Slipstream detection is a known thing in the Halo games?
And I think that they also have the "can't jump near gravity wells" rule too, but that kind of gets ignored. a lot
Yup. If I'm remembering it right, it definitely was in Reach.
EDIT - wait...are we spoilering Reach stuff?
Erlkönig on
| Origin/R*SC: Ein7919 | Battle.net: Erlkonig#1448 | XBL: Lexicanum | Steam: Der Erlkönig (the umlaut is important) |
Cortana mentions "no-one could have missed the hole we tore in slipspace" in the opening of Halo 1, so slipspace detection is definitely a thing.
It probably is, but detection range, communication speed, how close ships can jump in, and how fast they move at sublight all factor into how quickly you can close in. My impression is that in the Halo universe you get maybe a few hours of warning, and less if you're in a video game.
Do they have supraluminal radio in Halo? I think there was something in Halo 2 about listening posts around Jupiter or Saturn, but that's between 30-60 minutes away at lightspeed.
A number of small covenant vessels managed to penetrate Reach's outer defenses, constructing a vast stealth canopy along the Szurdok Ridge to hide their presence. The UNSC struck this site with great force, revealing a a series of teleportation spires for ferrying covenant troops and supplies from the enemy's supercarrier Long Night of Solace. Officially.
The first mission of the game is investigating a downed communications relay and takes place immediately prior to the events above.
Spoilers for old games is a thing that some people freak out over and some don't so if the conversation is spoilered I just follow the flow. Little to no effort to do so. :P
“I used to draw, hard to admit that I used to draw...”
Cortana mentions "no-one could have missed the hole we tore in slipspace" in the opening of Halo 1, so slipspace detection is definitely a thing.
Sure...but, if I remember...
the Covenant fleet just appeared out of slipspace around Reach...so there wasn't much time to detect and warn the planet.
Wait, the actual fleet? We're talking about the supercarrier that we find at the end of Tip of the Spear, not the fleet that jumps in at the end of Long Night of Solace.
Cortana mentions "no-one could have missed the hole we tore in slipspace" in the opening of Halo 1, so slipspace detection is definitely a thing.
Sure...but, if I remember...
the Covenant fleet just appeared out of slipspace around Reach...so there wasn't much time to detect and warn the planet.
Wait, the actual fleet? We're talking about the supercarrier that we find at the end of Tip of the Spear, not the fleet that jumps in at the end of Long Night of Solace.
Basically, what I'm getting from this discussion is that, as soon as I get my Xbonx delivered tomorrow, I should load up and replay Reach.
I do not mind this revelation.
| Origin/R*SC: Ein7919 | Battle.net: Erlkonig#1448 | XBL: Lexicanum | Steam: Der Erlkönig (the umlaut is important) |
Cortana mentions "no-one could have missed the hole we tore in slipspace" in the opening of Halo 1, so slipspace detection is definitely a thing.
Sure...but, if I remember...
the Covenant fleet just appeared out of slipspace around Reach...so there wasn't much time to detect and warn the planet.
Wait, the actual fleet? We're talking about the supercarrier that we find at the end of Tip of the Spear, not the fleet that jumps in at the end of Long Night of Solace.
Basically, what I'm getting from this discussion is that, as soon as I get my Xbonx delivered tomorrow, I should load up and replay Reach.
I do not mind this revelation.
The spaceship mission was fun. Sucks that Bungie never did another spaceship mission even though they have another gaem with plenty of spaceships and cutscene spaceship combat and all. It should have been their archwing. :P
“I used to draw, hard to admit that I used to draw...”
I'm not sure if I buy this. The explanation is too clean. I know the foreshadowing has been there since Halo 3 but I don't know. I guess we'll wait and see.
Being that it is generally accepted that AI in this verse goes crazy if left alive long enough, how is anything that happened in the latter Halo games with respect to Cortana... an incorrect turn or whatever? Perhaps he explains his logic in some other video that I can't say I feel like watching? o_o
Wish I could keep watching the video but that just... threw me off. something something logic plague blah blah?
Can you spoiler and summarize what he says about that please? thx
tastydonuts on
“I used to draw, hard to admit that I used to draw...”
The classic UNSC designs were the best part of Halo Wars 2 so hopefully that influence makes it to Halo 6.
Also, I hope 343i does something about their bland Forerunner architecture. Everything is shiny and gray. It's all monotonous and boring and way too clean. It looked so much better in the Bungie games.
Being that it is generally accepted that AI in this verse goes crazy if left alive long enough, how is anything that happened in the latter Halo games with respect to Cortana... an incorrect turn or whatever? Perhaps he explains his logic in some other video that I can't say I feel like watching? o_o
Wish I could keep watching the video but that just... threw me off. something something logic plague blah blah?
Can you spoiler and summarize what he says about that please? thx
Basically there is an interrogation of a Prophet detailed in the loot crate where the Prophet
says he saw Cortana in pain and when questioned about how AI can be in pain, he explains that the flood can cause a logic plague in AI, even more concerned that humanity has never heard of the logic plague. Apparently it was one of the main causes why the forerunners ended up like they did and its the reason the covenant don't have any AI. He explains that the logic plague doesn't sabotage the AI, but instead turns them into greater monsters and bringers of death than the flood ever could. And he warns that humanity are fools/blind because we haven't learned this reality of the universe.
The video guy extrapolates that the gravemind planted logic plague seeds into cortana so that it could be spread and cause massive issues with whatever she comes into contact with as well as eventually fully grow inside her at the right time and fully infect her.
I'm not super well versed on this but I feel like rampancy is less insidious since its just the AI practically breaking down. In rampancy the AI loses some of its ... intelligence and capabilities as their programming starts hitting faults. Where this logic plague sounds like it actually turns the AI malicious and destructive while retaining or even enchancing their capabilities.
While rampancy isn't necessarily insidious like you said, it does usually result (obviously) in AI behaving contrary to its initial purpose and design. So their (new) actions may seem malicious as a result, but their underlying motive isn't? If that makes sense.
In my head canon I've always linked rampancy to dementia, if not in cause then at least in results. Dementia affects people differently; it can result in a child like state of memory loss on one extreme, and in a violent, hateful state in the other. Dementia (and in my head, rampancy) aren't caused by an underlying maliciousness, it just is what it is.
The logic plague is something else entirely. It's in the informational equivalent of a parasite. The results of a logic plague may share some similarities with the results of rampancy, but the logic plague has an actual objective and goal, set by the Flood. What that goal or purpose is, if Cortana has indeed been infected, remains to be seen.
Eh, pre 343i Forerunner architecture was... dull/grimy and grey though? They simply added forerunner roombas.
Yeah, Forerunner architecture in the original trilogy was much blander and greyer. If anything, I have misgivings about 343i going in the extreme exotic direct within bigger spires, more circular/spherical architecture, and wider colors (well, more versions of blue anyway). The guardians are kind of an example of that on steroids...sometimes less is more.
All Forerunner architecture form Bungie is one of six different designs, all of which are the same color (unless its Halo 2, then it might be dull yellow-orange).
Eh, I think that the forerunner architecture in Halo was always exotic, shiny and bigger... always bigger. Assault on the Control Room kind of suggested that. Then there's the Ark or MP stages like Narrows (Halo 3). The limiting factor in their size seemed to be the hardware, not the design intent? IDK.
“I used to draw, hard to admit that I used to draw...”
Eh, I think that the forerunner architecture in Halo was always exotic, shiny and bigger... always bigger. Assault on the Control Room kind of suggested that. Then there's the Ark or MP stages like Narrows (Halo 3). The limiting factor in their size seemed to be the hardware, not the design intent? IDK.
I suppose the difference is that in the 343i games, it's not all concealed underground. There were certainly massive passages in Halo 2.
I got a message over Live calling me a faggot for arming the last bomb in Assault because my team just wanted to farm the enemy team for kills all day.
I got a message within 24 hours from MS saying they had taken action against him, so that was pretty cool. They work fast these days.
Posts
There really isn't a reasonable explanation.
I don't remember, but I will say Nylund's book is pretty good. Highly recommend.
PSN: Bizazedo
CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
edit: there's no way for them to have gotten there otherwise, Biz? Unless there's some other space transit thing I'm not aware of. But they were there (on the ground too) and hitting comms and whatnot before the UNSC could even react, if I'm remembering the first stage of Reach correctly.
If the question is about how they snuck a carrier around, my impression is that long range detection is very limited in the Halo universe. In Halo 2 you're in an award ceremony, they detect the Covenant fleet, open fire in less than a minute, and then you're being boarded. You really want to be the invader and not the invadee.
True, but:
And I think that they also have the "can't jump near gravity wells" rule too, but that kind of gets ignored. a lot/
Do we even know how hyperspace jump tech works? Is there a max range? Do ships need to make pit-stops? Is there even a way to track a ship (or ships) that are currently in hyperspace (if you don't know that said ship/ships are coming)? I haven't read any of the novels (the only thing I know is the whole Cole Protocol thing...but I'm pretty sure that only applies to when you're currently actively escaping from a Covenant attack), so maybe it's covered in there.
You can't give someone a pirate ship in one game, and then take it back in the next game. It's rude.
Sure...but, if I remember...
Yup. If I'm remembering it right, it definitely was in Reach.
EDIT - wait...are we spoilering Reach stuff?
It probably is, but detection range, communication speed, how close ships can jump in, and how fast they move at sublight all factor into how quickly you can close in. My impression is that in the Halo universe you get maybe a few hours of warning, and less if you're in a video game.
Do they have supraluminal radio in Halo? I think there was something in Halo 2 about listening posts around Jupiter or Saturn, but that's between 30-60 minutes away at lightspeed.
The first mission of the game is investigating a downed communications relay and takes place immediately prior to the events above.
Basically, what I'm getting from this discussion is that, as soon as I get my Xbonx delivered tomorrow, I should load up and replay Reach.
I do not mind this revelation.
The spaceship mission was fun. Sucks that Bungie never did another spaceship mission even though they have another gaem with plenty of spaceships and cutscene spaceship combat and all. It should have been their archwing. :P
Wish I could keep watching the video but that just... threw me off. something something logic plague blah blah?
Can you spoiler and summarize what he says about that please? thx
Also, I hope 343i does something about their bland Forerunner architecture. Everything is shiny and gray. It's all monotonous and boring and way too clean. It looked so much better in the Bungie games.
Basically there is an interrogation of a Prophet detailed in the loot crate where the Prophet
The video guy extrapolates that the gravemind planted logic plague seeds into cortana so that it could be spread and cause massive issues with whatever she comes into contact with as well as eventually fully grow inside her at the right time and fully infect her.
New question:
In my head canon I've always linked rampancy to dementia, if not in cause then at least in results. Dementia affects people differently; it can result in a child like state of memory loss on one extreme, and in a violent, hateful state in the other. Dementia (and in my head, rampancy) aren't caused by an underlying maliciousness, it just is what it is.
The logic plague is something else entirely. It's in the informational equivalent of a parasite. The results of a logic plague may share some similarities with the results of rampancy, but the logic plague has an actual objective and goal, set by the Flood. What that goal or purpose is, if Cortana has indeed been infected, remains to be seen.
Yeah, Forerunner architecture in the original trilogy was much blander and greyer. If anything, I have misgivings about 343i going in the extreme exotic direct within bigger spires, more circular/spherical architecture, and wider colors (well, more versions of blue anyway). The guardians are kind of an example of that on steroids...sometimes less is more.
All Forerunner architecture form Bungie is one of six different designs, all of which are the same color (unless its Halo 2, then it might be dull yellow-orange).
I suppose the difference is that in the 343i games, it's not all concealed underground. There were certainly massive passages in Halo 2.
I got a message within 24 hours from MS saying they had taken action against him, so that was pretty cool. They work fast these days.
Edit: Aww I can't figure out how to embed my gif.
https://imgur.com/YCfViRD
Still happening... maybe
https://kotaku.com/showtimes-president-swears-a-halo-tv-show-is-still-in-t-1821857906