The thing is when he says that having an all-male cast is important to the story I have doubts that it really is.
I suspect that this will not actually be an interesting analysis of the male experience and will in fact just be a story that happens to star a bunch of dudes but doesn't really "need" to star only dudes to work.
The thing is when he says that having an all-male cast is important to the story I have doubts that it really is.
I suspect that this will not actually be an interesting analysis of the male experience and will in fact just be a story that happens to star a bunch of dudes but doesn't really "need" to star only dudes to work.
Yeah, I think it'd be interesting if the story actually explored the nature of male friendships. That'd be cool, because gaming tends to be quite shallow on the subject. We'll see what it ends up doing.
Want to find me on a gaming service? I'm SwashbucklerXX everywhere.
After going through about ten levels with an all melee-team, I finally hit a dungeon I couldn't three star (chocobo). So I think "okay, let's see what magic can do, maybe the Black Mage just isn't great..." so I switch in a level one Rydia, and she is hitting things in the 10 difficulty dungeon for over 1000 a cast. Granted it's an FFIV dungeon, but still.
After going through about ten levels with an all melee-team, I finally hit a dungeon I couldn't three star (chocobo). So I think "okay, let's see what magic can do, maybe the Black Mage just isn't great..." so I switch in a level one Rydia, and she is hitting things in the 10 difficulty dungeon for over 1000 a cast. Granted it's an FFIV dungeon, but still.
So the secret to success is Rydia.
But it's not much of a secret because we already knew that in 1991.
Also having Rydia as a party member while fighting the Mist Dragon is wrong on so many levels. :bigfrown:
Man I wish I could judge an entire 50 hour narrative on nothing. That's like some kind of super power.
I have already stated why it's stupid to make this kind of post in a thread dedicated to commenting on a game before it's released. You are basically saying "This thread shouldn't exist."
Man I wish I could judge an entire 50 hour narrative on nothing. That's like some kind of super power.
I have already stated why it's stupid to make this kind of post in a thread dedicated to commenting on a game before it's released. You are basically saying "This thread shouldn't exist."
Or you could talk about the narrative that does exist, in demos, videos, interviews. You could talk about the art, gameplay, hints of lore!
Awesome bugs that require getting hit by a car!
" I dunno but I bet it isn't what they say it is " just seems like divination to me. Like pulling speculation out of the ether. Like a super power.
The story might be really well written! It could in fact have tons of great insight on male bonding, examination of Japanese male yakuza culture (one of the quoted inspirations), and lots more really great stuff.
But I can't really be convinced that it requires a complete absence of female protagonists to do this. Final Fantasy games are long. XIII's cinematics + cutscenes clock in at over eight and a half hours.
If you spend even just a quarter of the time with no women around so you can do whatever it is they think they can only do with men on screen, that's still over two hours of pure dudebro goodness. Having two perspectives as the good Professor has fondly dreamed of having, cutting the game in half between them, would give you over four hours to examine all-male socializing from every conceivable and desirable angle. Plus banter as you're actually playing the game.
I'd have more patience with that argument in a game with, say, half an hour of story scenes (your average action game, for instance). For a lengthy epic like this? Hogwash.
Triptycho: A card-and-dice tabletop indie RPG currently in development and playtesting
Eh, @chocobolicious, if you'd like to see the narrative of the thread shift from such areas, why not try to nudge the conversation into another direction that focuses on the game and such? I mean, right now we're talking about how/what people discuss about the game, rather than... actually discussing the game.
For example, while there isn't much out there presently, here's a gamespot article that sort of hits on how/why the game's playable characters are only men; namely that it was Nomura/Tabata's attempt to explore the concept of male intimacy. Here is the gamespot article: Male Intimacy and Final Fantasy XV.
As I haven't played the Demo yet because I'm still playing Type-0, maybe you can build off that? IDK.
edit: I mean, there are some themes central to the whole "road trip" archetype that can be explored. All male narratives (not just Stand By Me, and Deliverance is probably a bad example too but it's the only other one that comes to mind atm) that touch on that concept too. Just a thought. Groups of guys coming together doesn't necessarily have to be about machismo.
tastydonuts on
“I used to draw, hard to admit that I used to draw...”
For example, while there isn't much out there presently, here's a gamespot article that sort of hits on how/why the game's playable characters are only men; namely that it was Nomura/Tabata's attempt to explore the concept of male intimacy. Here is the gamespot article: Male Intimacy and Final Fantasy XV.
That's a rather strong article that makes some very good points and brings up some thought-provoking angles to add to the discussion.
But it opened with such blatantly false information ("every Final Fantasy to date has featured at least a trio of playable gals. Half of Final Fantasy VI's massive cast was female") that I'm not really sure how to process the rest of it. Focusing on the opinions (which aren't bad at all) instead of the facts seems wise.
Triptycho: A card-and-dice tabletop indie RPG currently in development and playtesting
As I've said before, I'm just as disappointed as most people over the lack of female party members in FFXV. I probably have more favorite female characters in the series than I do male ones, and as Queen in Type-0 has proven, fencer girls with rapiers are especially rad, which is what Stella looked to be in concept.
However, I largely disagree with any statements from people that consider the all-male party to be any sort of statement against the current controversies going on, or that they "aren't allowed" to make an all-male party because of the current climate. Bullshit to both arguments.
I also disagree that such a dynamic would only work if they applied any sweeping commentaries or subversion toward the all-male group. A good game/story doesn't need any shocking deconstructions or twists to be engaging. If every game was Spec-Ops: The Line, then nobody would have given a shit about Spec-Ops: The Line. Final Fantasy XV can be your usual "group of adventurers save the world through power of friendship" story and it would work just fine. Even though, again, the apparent lack of female characters in the party is still very much disappointing.
What is also dumb is any comments by Tabata or Square Enix that attempts to justify the all-male group with any statements that boil down to "girls are icky/scary" or "this is a man's world". I'm with you on that, and that is also why I insist that they shouldn't have to justify their all-male party. The people who are disappointed aren't going to be placated by whatever they say, and any statements made (whether intentionally or otherwise) is just adding more fuel to the fire.
In the end I think FFXV's long-development time is continuing to hurt them in more ways than one, and they really should just hunker down and focus on getting that game out already.
Hopefully one of the dudebros bites it and Stella steps up as a bodyguard.
How good of a turnaround would that be for this situation?
Stupid on a million levels unless it makes sense in the context of the story. Don't just kill characters off for no reason, or to make room. Why not just add her?
If Stella really does get her own playable scenario with her own cast of AI characters, then technically you would be getting an even gender split in regards to characters you are physically controlling.
As it stands you are only playing one character, Noctis. Even if a female does show up in the group, you wouldn't be able to actually control them beyond whatever AI commands the game will let you give them.
Hopefully one of the dudebros bites it and Stella steps up as a bodyguard.
How good of a turnaround would that be for this situation?
Stupid on a million levels unless it makes sense in the context of the story. Don't just kill characters off for no reason, or to make room. Why not just add her?
Pure speculation, but I think glasses guy is going to betray the group, and the big guy is going to bite the dust.
Only controlling one main character, with lots of temporary characters, removes the "being a main character" shields.
0
joshgotroDeviled EggThe Land of REAL CHILIRegistered Userregular
Hopefully one of the dudebros bites it and Stella steps up as a bodyguard.
How good of a turnaround would that be for this situation?
Stupid on a million levels unless it makes sense in the context of the story. Don't just kill characters off for no reason, or to make room. Why not just add her?
It's only stupid if it isn't contextually significant. One level.
So I think my favorite characters in the game have become King and Lightning Seven (seriously in character design she looks like a white haired Lightning). King makes it real easy to killsight enemies, and Seven has awesome battlefield control with her whip.
I'm also heavily considering just skipping the expert trials. I can usually do them, but they have some really obnoxious designs, such as the first one where you have to protect bombs that give you maybe five feet you have to stay in while the soldiers with rifles that can one shot you just unload on you.
They're designed for a second playthrough, when your level is kind of naturally around the recommended level anyway.
The only issue with that is I usually end up then with huge amounts of time left over. Right now in Chapter 5, all of my characters are of the recommended level or above, and I can find no more actions to take other than to speed up time and waste two days left over. I feel like I'm missing something, but I've been through the whole akademy multiple times and can't find anything else to do.
0
silence1186Character shields down!As a wingmanRegistered Userregular
I am at the same point in Chapter 5 and I'm really not sure what else to do. I visited all the towns on the world map I could, but still have over a day's worth of time.
Ok, not really, but I just did the last available FF6 dungeon (difficulty 15) and it didn't unlock anything new outside of the elite dungeons. I got a message that, well:
I guess that's one way to make sure people don't burn through all the content too fast. Still, it's quite fun and a level 15 dungeon does set you up quite nicely to enter the first Elite dungeons currently available, which are difficulty 17. I will admit that the last few FF6 dungeons were actually kicking my ass, Vargas for example stomped me into paste.
So taking a quick peek at the Japanese FFRK twitter page...
Sephiroph is a playable character.
So is Gobez!
Looks like Dark Kain and Lightning are too.
They're going to have content for YEARS.
It looks like not all characters will be gotten from the story missions, there will be limited event dungeons that unlock playable characters too. It looks like the FFXIII-2 main character is one of them, for example.
Edit: Trying out the Saturday XP dungeons.
Easy mode is really quite simple, you get about 400 XP a fight with the 200% bonus.
Normal mode... 700, and the fights are ranging between zzz and "Wait, it just did 300 damage to everyone!?"
I really wish there was a group heal out there, but there isn't that I've seen.
Also, the real money currency is Coins, and the in game progress money is Mithril. You can get rare item drops for 5 mithril or 300 coins ($3 before discounts). But you can expand your inventory slots by 1 mithril or 100 coins ($1). Ergo, if you're going to be using coins, it might make more sense to use the Mithril for inventory slots? Maybe? It looks like you get 1 free mithril every 5 days outside of the 1 you get for beating a dungeon.
Easy mode is really quite simple, you get about 400 XP a fight with the 200% bonus.
Normal mode... 700, and the fights are ranging between zzz and "Wait, it just did 300 damage to everyone!?"
Huh. You must get less XP the higher your level. I just did that dungeon and got about 1200 (total) XP per fight in easy, and over 5000 on Normal, and Normal was only with a 150% bonus.
Easy mode is really quite simple, you get about 400 XP a fight with the 200% bonus.
Normal mode... 700, and the fights are ranging between zzz and "Wait, it just did 300 damage to everyone!?"
Huh. You must get less XP the higher your level. I just did that dungeon and got about 1200 (total) XP per fight in easy, and over 5000 on Normal, and Normal was only with a 150% bonus.
I'll run it again if I can before the 5 AM (?) switchover, I could be wrong about the XP. The normal was quite nice although my level 11 Cloud didn't survive.
I really need to get around to finding a list of drops and rare drops so I know what is available to farm, since I have nothing else to do right yet.
Edit: Oh hey, the level cap is 50... but apparently there's a "Rebirth System" that lets you take them to 65 by using a special item. You get them from specific areas, it's not a p2win thing.
Edit2: It's 400ish-600ish before the 200% modifier.
Some free time sessions give you more than enough time to talk to everyone/see all the scenes.
The extra time is useful when you come back in your second playthrough and do the Expert Trials that take 12 hours a piece.
12h, not actually 12 hours.
Yeah, I just skipped the rest of the time and finished the main mission. I then finally hit a point where I needed to grind, but the best grind area level wise is the northern corridor, and some characters don't really seem to work too well in that area. Any advice for that? Julbania has been an alright grinding point too I guess.
Some free time sessions give you more than enough time to talk to everyone/see all the scenes.
The extra time is useful when you come back in your second playthrough and do the Expert Trials that take 12 hours a piece.
12h, not actually 12 hours.
Yeah, I just skipped the rest of the time and finished the main mission. I then finally hit a point where I needed to grind, but the best grind area level wise is the northern corridor, and some characters don't really seem to work too well in that area. Any advice for that? Julbania has been an alright grinding point too I guess.
Not sure what's the best place to grind out a few levels at that point. I've been leveling everyone evenly, which is not recommended, so I've been relying on the Secret Training exploit instead of grinding when I'm level-deficient in order to save a little time.
Depending your level, maybe bump the difficulty up to Agito and get in random battles outside Corsi.
Some free time sessions give you more than enough time to talk to everyone/see all the scenes.
The extra time is useful when you come back in your second playthrough and do the Expert Trials that take 12 hours a piece.
12h, not actually 12 hours.
Yeah, I just skipped the rest of the time and finished the main mission. I then finally hit a point where I needed to grind, but the best grind area level wise is the northern corridor, and some characters don't really seem to work too well in that area. Any advice for that? Julbania has been an alright grinding point too I guess.
Not sure what's the best place to grind out a few levels at that point. I've been leveling everyone evenly, which is not recommended, so I've been relying on the Secret Training exploit instead of grinding when I'm level-deficient in order to save a little time.
Depending your level, maybe bump the difficulty up to Agito and get in random battles outside Corsi.
Growth Eggs help too, of course.
why shouldnt you level your party evenly? Ive been doing that w/o issue.
“I used to draw, hard to admit that I used to draw...”
There are a few growth eggs in the game. Accessories that double experience when worn. If you're at 30 (40?) hours, talk to the Moogle at the door to Akademeia and he'll give you one.
Leveling everyone just takes a long time. If that's cool with you, knock yourself out. But you only really need about 6-8 characters to be at the recommended level, on average.
Posts
I suspect that this will not actually be an interesting analysis of the male experience and will in fact just be a story that happens to star a bunch of dudes but doesn't really "need" to star only dudes to work.
My Let's Play Channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UC2go70QLfwGq-hW4nvUqmog
Yeah, I think it'd be interesting if the story actually explored the nature of male friendships. That'd be cool, because gaming tends to be quite shallow on the subject. We'll see what it ends up doing.
Thus far, it appears to be everything All The Bravest seemed to promise but utterly failed at delivering. It's pretty good.
I mean the guy writing it did VII, VIII, X, did concept work for XIII, crisis core, advent children, KH 1 and 2...
Also apparently the lyrics to their good songs.
Nope, definitely best to expect the worst.
I don't think you should include X in that list if you want to prove your point.
*shots fired*
After going through about ten levels with an all melee-team, I finally hit a dungeon I couldn't three star (chocobo). So I think "okay, let's see what magic can do, maybe the Black Mage just isn't great..." so I switch in a level one Rydia, and she is hitting things in the 10 difficulty dungeon for over 1000 a cast. Granted it's an FFIV dungeon, but still.
3DS: 1607-3034-6970
You just need one of these and you're set!
So the secret to success is Rydia.
But it's not much of a secret because we already knew that in 1991.
Also having Rydia as a party member while fighting the Mist Dragon is wrong on so many levels. :bigfrown:
Blog||Tumblr|Steam|Twitter|FFXIV|Twitch|YouTube|Podcast|PSN|XBL|DarkZero
Yep. I'm using Tyro (who I gave Cure), Wakka, Kain, Rydia, and Cloud right now. I'll probably end up switching Sabin for Cloud once I get him.
3DS: 1607-3034-6970
That game already had its road trip, and then some.
Blog||Tumblr|Steam|Twitter|FFXIV|Twitch|YouTube|Podcast|PSN|XBL|DarkZero
Nah, can't be recent footage.
It has Stella in it, at all.
"Look guys Stella's confirmed!"
Blog||Tumblr|Steam|Twitter|FFXIV|Twitch|YouTube|Podcast|PSN|XBL|DarkZero
Or you could talk about the narrative that does exist, in demos, videos, interviews. You could talk about the art, gameplay, hints of lore!
Awesome bugs that require getting hit by a car!
" I dunno but I bet it isn't what they say it is " just seems like divination to me. Like pulling speculation out of the ether. Like a super power.
Yes, that's been made obvious from day 1. The focus of the story, as it were. Made clear in interview, videos and the demo.
Claiming them being all dudes isn't going to be important to the story is the statement I was responding to.
Which, I mean, cool.. I guess? Like I can't even fathom where that opinion would come from except maybe the divine.
But I can't really be convinced that it requires a complete absence of female protagonists to do this. Final Fantasy games are long. XIII's cinematics + cutscenes clock in at over eight and a half hours.
If you spend even just a quarter of the time with no women around so you can do whatever it is they think they can only do with men on screen, that's still over two hours of pure dudebro goodness. Having two perspectives as the good Professor has fondly dreamed of having, cutting the game in half between them, would give you over four hours to examine all-male socializing from every conceivable and desirable angle. Plus banter as you're actually playing the game.
I'd have more patience with that argument in a game with, say, half an hour of story scenes (your average action game, for instance). For a lengthy epic like this? Hogwash.
For example, while there isn't much out there presently, here's a gamespot article that sort of hits on how/why the game's playable characters are only men; namely that it was Nomura/Tabata's attempt to explore the concept of male intimacy. Here is the gamespot article: Male Intimacy and Final Fantasy XV.
As I haven't played the Demo yet because I'm still playing Type-0, maybe you can build off that? IDK.
edit: I mean, there are some themes central to the whole "road trip" archetype that can be explored. All male narratives (not just Stand By Me, and Deliverance is probably a bad example too but it's the only other one that comes to mind atm) that touch on that concept too. Just a thought. Groups of guys coming together doesn't necessarily have to be about machismo.
But it opened with such blatantly false information ("every Final Fantasy to date has featured at least a trio of playable gals. Half of Final Fantasy VI's massive cast was female") that I'm not really sure how to process the rest of it. Focusing on the opinions (which aren't bad at all) instead of the facts seems wise.
However, I largely disagree with any statements from people that consider the all-male party to be any sort of statement against the current controversies going on, or that they "aren't allowed" to make an all-male party because of the current climate. Bullshit to both arguments.
I also disagree that such a dynamic would only work if they applied any sweeping commentaries or subversion toward the all-male group. A good game/story doesn't need any shocking deconstructions or twists to be engaging. If every game was Spec-Ops: The Line, then nobody would have given a shit about Spec-Ops: The Line. Final Fantasy XV can be your usual "group of adventurers save the world through power of friendship" story and it would work just fine. Even though, again, the apparent lack of female characters in the party is still very much disappointing.
What is also dumb is any comments by Tabata or Square Enix that attempts to justify the all-male group with any statements that boil down to "girls are icky/scary" or "this is a man's world". I'm with you on that, and that is also why I insist that they shouldn't have to justify their all-male party. The people who are disappointed aren't going to be placated by whatever they say, and any statements made (whether intentionally or otherwise) is just adding more fuel to the fire.
In the end I think FFXV's long-development time is continuing to hurt them in more ways than one, and they really should just hunker down and focus on getting that game out already.
Blog||Tumblr|Steam|Twitter|FFXIV|Twitch|YouTube|Podcast|PSN|XBL|DarkZero
Hopefully one of the dudebros bites it and Stella steps up as a bodyguard.
How good of a turnaround would that be for this situation?
Stupid on a million levels unless it makes sense in the context of the story. Don't just kill characters off for no reason, or to make room. Why not just add her?
As it stands you are only playing one character, Noctis. Even if a female does show up in the group, you wouldn't be able to actually control them beyond whatever AI commands the game will let you give them.
Blog||Tumblr|Steam|Twitter|FFXIV|Twitch|YouTube|Podcast|PSN|XBL|DarkZero
Pure speculation, but I think glasses guy is going to betray the group, and the big guy is going to bite the dust.
Only controlling one main character, with lots of temporary characters, removes the "being a main character" shields.
It's only stupid if it isn't contextually significant. One level.
The only issue with that is I usually end up then with huge amounts of time left over. Right now in Chapter 5, all of my characters are of the recommended level or above, and I can find no more actions to take other than to speed up time and waste two days left over. I feel like I'm missing something, but I've been through the whole akademy multiple times and can't find anything else to do.
The extra time is useful when you come back in your second playthrough and do the Expert Trials that take 12 hours a piece.
12h, not actually 12 hours.
Ok, not really, but I just did the last available FF6 dungeon (difficulty 15) and it didn't unlock anything new outside of the elite dungeons. I got a message that, well:
I guess that's one way to make sure people don't burn through all the content too fast.
Sephiroph is a playable character.
So is Gobez!
Looks like Dark Kain and Lightning are too.
They're going to have content for YEARS.
It looks like not all characters will be gotten from the story missions, there will be limited event dungeons that unlock playable characters too. It looks like the FFXIII-2 main character is one of them, for example.
Edit: Trying out the Saturday XP dungeons.
Easy mode is really quite simple, you get about 400 XP a fight with the 200% bonus.
Normal mode... 700, and the fights are ranging between zzz and "Wait, it just did 300 damage to everyone!?"
I really wish there was a group heal out there, but there isn't that I've seen.
Also, the real money currency is Coins, and the in game progress money is Mithril. You can get rare item drops for 5 mithril or 300 coins ($3 before discounts). But you can expand your inventory slots by 1 mithril or 100 coins ($1). Ergo, if you're going to be using coins, it might make more sense to use the Mithril for inventory slots? Maybe? It looks like you get 1 free mithril every 5 days outside of the 1 you get for beating a dungeon.
3DS: 1607-3034-6970
I'll run it again if I can before the 5 AM (?) switchover, I could be wrong about the XP. The normal was quite nice although my level 11 Cloud didn't survive.
I really need to get around to finding a list of drops and rare drops so I know what is available to farm, since I have nothing else to do right yet.
Edit: Oh hey, the level cap is 50... but apparently there's a "Rebirth System" that lets you take them to 65 by using a special item. You get them from specific areas, it's not a p2win thing.
Edit2: It's 400ish-600ish before the 200% modifier.
Yeah, I just skipped the rest of the time and finished the main mission. I then finally hit a point where I needed to grind, but the best grind area level wise is the northern corridor, and some characters don't really seem to work too well in that area. Any advice for that? Julbania has been an alright grinding point too I guess.
Not sure what's the best place to grind out a few levels at that point. I've been leveling everyone evenly, which is not recommended, so I've been relying on the Secret Training exploit instead of grinding when I'm level-deficient in order to save a little time.
Depending your level, maybe bump the difficulty up to Agito and get in random battles outside Corsi.
Growth Eggs help too, of course.
why shouldnt you level your party evenly? Ive been doing that w/o issue.
Leveling everyone just takes a long time. If that's cool with you, knock yourself out. But you only really need about 6-8 characters to be at the recommended level, on average.