There are numerous scenes where thruster only maneuvers create potential for lethally flying objects as well as danger to crew members. Specifically, the scene where
amos is trying to fix the ... I can't remember what it is, but he gets thrown around pretty good inside the walls.
This reminds me of great line from the beginning of the 3rd book.
they're all flush with cash and Amos buys some aftermarket engine upgrades.
Holden:"why? The Roci can already produce enough thrust to kill us. "
Amos:"because this shits super badass. "
There are numerous scenes where thruster only maneuvers create potential for lethally flying objects as well as danger to crew members. Specifically, the scene where
amos is trying to fix the ... I can't remember what it is, but he gets thrown around pretty good inside the walls.
Right but all you need for those is straps. Which you'd want for zero g anyway. A gimblled couch would be most helpful if multi-g thrust could come from any angle, rather than half or 1 g or less from RCS
Though if the roci went into a flat spin the spin gs would probably suck
They did such a better job with him in the show than in the books.
I would agree everybody involved had pretty logical reasons for how they ended up in the situation they ended in. His lack of trust over holden made sense because a lot of what holden is would sound pretty fucking crazy to anybody.
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BrodyThe WatchThe First ShoreRegistered Userregular
I guess I'm not sure the mechanics of accelerating, rotating 90degrees, and then accelerating again. Are you still only experiencing g's parallel to the thrust?
"I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."
If you're traveling at high speed in space and you change orientation, it's not like all your forward momentum is magically shifted to the new direction of travel. Making abrupt direction changes in space at high speed essentially means you're powersliding until your main engine's output has been running for a while on the new orientation. Until then, thrust gravity isn't straight down, it's down and to the sides. Hence gimballed couches with straps.
I guess I'm not sure the mechanics of accelerating, rotating 90degrees, and then accelerating again. Are you still only experiencing g's parallel to the thrust?
It goes like this:
Accelerate: g force is straight down
Turn: a hard turn will generate centrifugal force toward the outside of the turn.
Accelerate: straight down
So the main thruster will ever only push you to the floor. It's the RCS that makes things fly around. Same with lateral translation rather than turns, except the force there is nicer in that it's aimed at the wall or ceiling rather than the weirdness a hard spin will do.
I guess I'm not sure the mechanics of accelerating, rotating 90degrees, and then accelerating again. Are you still only experiencing g's parallel to the thrust?
It goes like this:
Accelerate: g force is straight down
Turn: a hard turn will generate centrifugal force toward the outside of the turn.
Accelerate: straight down
So the main thruster will ever only push you to the floor. It's the RCS that makes things fly around. Same with lateral translation rather than turns, except the force there is nicer in that it's aimed at the wall or ceiling rather than the weirdness a hard spin will do.
This is not true though. Accelerate in a straight line at 1g for an hour, then cut the main engine (or don't) and turn 90 degrees, then accelerate at 1g again. It's going to take time for you to be truly going "straight" on the new vector because you're still carrying a ton of speed on your old vector. Until you are, thrust gravity won't be purely downwards.
BrodyThe WatchThe First ShoreRegistered Userregular
I really just need to get around to watching the show, but apparently in one of the episodes they do show the seats tilting way back to put people more perpendicular to the thrust.
"I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."
I guess I'm not sure the mechanics of accelerating, rotating 90degrees, and then accelerating again. Are you still only experiencing g's parallel to the thrust?
It goes like this:
Accelerate: g force is straight down
Turn: a hard turn will generate centrifugal force toward the outside of the turn.
Accelerate: straight down
So the main thruster will ever only push you to the floor. It's the RCS that makes things fly around. Same with lateral translation rather than turns, except the force there is nicer in that it's aimed at the wall or ceiling rather than the weirdness a hard spin will do.
This is not true though. Accelerate in a straight line at 1g for an hour, then cut the main engine (or don't) and turn 90 degrees, then accelerate at 1g again. It's going to take time for you to be truly going "straight" on the new vector because you're still carrying a ton of speed on your old vector. Until you are, thrust gravity won't be purely downwards.
whut, no. speed you carrying doesn't matter because it is not an acceleration.
there is also no point in time where you will be going "straight" you will always have that initial velocity from the first but, until you burn the opposite way.
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They moistly come out at night, moistly.
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BrodyThe WatchThe First ShoreRegistered Userregular
Right, but even if you are accelerating perpendicular to your previous course, wouldn't you initially experience acceleration on a diagonal between the two vectors?
"I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."
Yeah I'm thinking about this more and I think I'm wrong? It's hard to think of in the proper terms because my earthbound preconceptions are messing with me. But without acceleration you're on the float regardless of which direction the ship is pointed. With acceleration on a new vector, you're just getting pushed down, regardless of which way in space the ship is arcing?
There are instances in the books of crash couches tilting to match sideways thrust, but now that I think about it can't remember any that aren't in the middle of combat requiring sudden vector changes.
Right, but even if you are accelerating perpendicular to your previous course, wouldn't you initially experience acceleration on a diagonal between the two vectors?
Nope. The instant you cut thrust you are zero g.
G force in spacecraft that aren't landed or spinning is acceleration, not speed.
Think about it this way: right now you, personally, are spinning at thousands of miles an hour, and orbiting the Sun at hundreds of thousands of miles an hour. Do you feel it? No. Because it isn't changing.
I am rereading the books and I just finished the fifth, and I paged back a bit to where Alex talks about this to Holden. It's ahead of the show so I'll speak in general terms. There's a ship that was burning on a constant vector, but spin was introduced when one of the maneuvering thrusters was fired for several seconds and never corrected for. So now instead of going on a constant vector in direction X, the ship is now on that same line but circling, constantly turning in one direction, "chasing it's own tail."
The concern is that someone inside the ship might be pressed up against the walls. Alex says;
"Yeah, thruster misfires don't work like that. You don't get any sideways impulse unless the thruster's actually going. After that, you've got a little spin station action pushing the folks behind the center of spin down and the folks forward of it up, but all that is gonna be in line with the thrust from the drive, so all you actually get is [implied slightly higher or lower thrust gravity depending on what part of the ship you're in]".
Edit: so yeah I was wrong; I blame my feeble brain and it's terrestrial experiences
Your main force in a ship like that is always going to be "down" towards the main engines. The only real issue is if your manuvering jets are kicking off when you are accelerating and those would slam you around a bit but they are puny amounts of force compared to the main thrusters. You would still want to make sure you are strapped in and in your acceleration couch but in space the only "gravity" you are experiencing is acceleration the second your engines are turned off it is back to zero G.
They do feel sideways g's when maneuvering thrusters are on, it's just the show is not great at showing that. The chairs on the flight deck of the Roci are rigid and they only recline forwards and backwards like a lay-z-boy. Hell, we're shown early in the series that the captain of the Donnager is just standing there chilling on the flight deck.
The scene where Amos is repairing a thruster from between the hulls is pretty good for showing how you can get knocked around under maneuvering thrust.
the moment of Amos asking Pastor Ana why she does what she does is a crash course in acting over thirty seconds. This scene establishes why Amos follows other people almost instantaneously.
The actor they got for Amos is so good
Yeah. In my imaginary recasting of Logan/Wolverine for a new movie he is my top choice.
They do feel sideways g's when maneuvering thrusters are on, it's just the show is not great at showing that. The chairs on the flight deck of the Roci are rigid and they only recline forwards and backwards like a lay-z-boy. Hell, we're shown early in the series that the captain of the Donnager is just standing there chilling on the flight deck.
The scene where Amos is repairing a thruster from between the hulls is pretty good for showing how you can get knocked around under maneuvering thrust.
I imagine the bridge on the Donager pretty close to center mass, and she likely turns slow. So just standing there is fine.
Probably a healthy dash of arrogance, given how bumflustered everyone was that anyone would dare (or even manage) to get close enough for CQB against them. I think we're generally shown on the show that the Martian military is super confident.
Casually HardcoreOnce an Asshole. Trying to be better.Registered Userregular
You also have to take into account of mass in the force equation. A few hundred ton of steel accelerating into your puny flesh is going to turn you into pulp.
You also have to take into account of mass in the force equation. A few hundred ton of steel accelerating into your puny flesh is going to turn you into pulp.
There are definitely magboot sound effects in the ships when the ships aren't under thrust.
Oh! Yes, definitely. I worded that poorly. I meant if we stipulate this to be true, those poor actors and sound folks won't need to suffer through convincing us everyone is in low g and wearing mag boots. I'm worried about the ankles of the former and the sanity of the latter!
How the show would do the ubiquitous 'bulb's from the books was probably the thing I was most curious going into it. Kinda bummed they basically didn't. I guess it'd be hard to make everyone look badass while they drink out of sippy-cups.
I always figured the drink bulbs from the book were pouch drinks like a Capri Sun or those japanese drink pouches with the built-in plastic straw, but with a more spherical body.
Dark Raven XLaugh hard, run fast,be kindRegistered Userregular
Season 4 Concept Art! (Some mild Book 4 spoils)
Landing on drive cone eh? Literally unwatchable. Tho I did always wonder how it was supposed to land on its belly with a railgun mounted there...
Also, was kinda hoping for a new paintjob! I guess at some point the Beratnas Gas thing became permanent, but that was a disguise, which Alex ditched with some great fanfare at the end of season 1. I want em to get their own custom colours on there!
Landing on drive cone eh? Literally unwatchable. Tho I did always wonder how it was supposed to land on its belly with a railgun mounted there...
Also, was kinda hoping for a new paintjob! I guess at some point the Beratnas Gas thing became permanent, but that was a disguise, which Alex ditched with some great fanfare at the end of season 1. I want em to get their own custom colours on there!
Book 4
I guess it’s easier than making a sideways set for when they’re landed, but the ship already has some concessions for that (the sideways ladders in the bridge, etc). Also, how are they getting on/off the ship? The cargo airlock is pretty far up.
Plus, landing with the Epstein drive is going to put them in a lake of lava.
Where you even paying attention?! Edible water is a major breakthrough! Did you know in its basic form water is the most dangerous substance on Earth?
It’s colorless, odorless, and deadly if inhaled.
It’s a byproduct of rocket fuel, and can cause severe burns in its gaseous form.
Its highly corrosive.
There is a 100% death rate associated with those who have casually consumed water during their lifetime.
There are numerous scenes where thruster only maneuvers create potential for lethally flying objects as well as danger to crew members. Specifically, the scene where
amos is trying to fix the ... I can't remember what it is, but he gets thrown around pretty good inside the walls.
Yes if there is stuff not battened down manuvering thrusters are very much strong enough to make them deadly hazards during combat manuvers. Still the main bulk of your "gravity" is going to be from the main thrusters.
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The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
Steam: Korvalain
Holden:"why? The Roci can already produce enough thrust to kill us. "
Amos:"because this shits super badass. "
Right but all you need for those is straps. Which you'd want for zero g anyway. A gimblled couch would be most helpful if multi-g thrust could come from any angle, rather than half or 1 g or less from RCS
Though if the roci went into a flat spin the spin gs would probably suck
I would agree everybody involved had pretty logical reasons for how they ended up in the situation they ended in. His lack of trust over holden made sense because a lot of what holden is would sound pretty fucking crazy to anybody.
The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
Steam: Korvalain
Inquisitor77: Rius, you are Sisyphus and melee Wizard is your boulder
Tube: This must be what it felt like to be an Iraqi when Saddam was killed
Bookish Stickers - Mrs. Rius' Etsy shop with bumper stickers and vinyl decals.
It goes like this:
Accelerate: g force is straight down
Turn: a hard turn will generate centrifugal force toward the outside of the turn.
Accelerate: straight down
So the main thruster will ever only push you to the floor. It's the RCS that makes things fly around. Same with lateral translation rather than turns, except the force there is nicer in that it's aimed at the wall or ceiling rather than the weirdness a hard spin will do.
This is not true though. Accelerate in a straight line at 1g for an hour, then cut the main engine (or don't) and turn 90 degrees, then accelerate at 1g again. It's going to take time for you to be truly going "straight" on the new vector because you're still carrying a ton of speed on your old vector. Until you are, thrust gravity won't be purely downwards.
Inquisitor77: Rius, you are Sisyphus and melee Wizard is your boulder
Tube: This must be what it felt like to be an Iraqi when Saddam was killed
Bookish Stickers - Mrs. Rius' Etsy shop with bumper stickers and vinyl decals.
The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
Steam: Korvalain
whut, no. speed you carrying doesn't matter because it is not an acceleration.
there is also no point in time where you will be going "straight" you will always have that initial velocity from the first but, until you burn the opposite way.
The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
Steam: Korvalain
There are instances in the books of crash couches tilting to match sideways thrust, but now that I think about it can't remember any that aren't in the middle of combat requiring sudden vector changes.
Inquisitor77: Rius, you are Sisyphus and melee Wizard is your boulder
Tube: This must be what it felt like to be an Iraqi when Saddam was killed
Bookish Stickers - Mrs. Rius' Etsy shop with bumper stickers and vinyl decals.
Nope. The instant you cut thrust you are zero g.
G force in spacecraft that aren't landed or spinning is acceleration, not speed.
It's the same with spacecraft.
F = ma
There’s no velocity component
The concern is that someone inside the ship might be pressed up against the walls. Alex says;
"Yeah, thruster misfires don't work like that. You don't get any sideways impulse unless the thruster's actually going. After that, you've got a little spin station action pushing the folks behind the center of spin down and the folks forward of it up, but all that is gonna be in line with the thrust from the drive, so all you actually get is [implied slightly higher or lower thrust gravity depending on what part of the ship you're in]".
Edit: so yeah I was wrong; I blame my feeble brain and it's terrestrial experiences
Inquisitor77: Rius, you are Sisyphus and melee Wizard is your boulder
Tube: This must be what it felt like to be an Iraqi when Saddam was killed
Bookish Stickers - Mrs. Rius' Etsy shop with bumper stickers and vinyl decals.
The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
Steam: Korvalain
The scene where Amos is repairing a thruster from between the hulls is pretty good for showing how you can get knocked around under maneuvering thrust.
Inquisitor77: Rius, you are Sisyphus and melee Wizard is your boulder
Tube: This must be what it felt like to be an Iraqi when Saddam was killed
Bookish Stickers - Mrs. Rius' Etsy shop with bumper stickers and vinyl decals.
Yeah. In my imaginary recasting of Logan/Wolverine for a new movie he is my top choice.
I imagine the bridge on the Donager pretty close to center mass, and she likely turns slow. So just standing there is fine.
Doing so in combat while unsuited is stupid.
Or arrogance.
Inquisitor77: Rius, you are Sisyphus and melee Wizard is your boulder
Tube: This must be what it felt like to be an Iraqi when Saddam was killed
Bookish Stickers - Mrs. Rius' Etsy shop with bumper stickers and vinyl decals.
ehh... there's only so far to fall.
Oh! Yes, definitely. I worded that poorly. I meant if we stipulate this to be true, those poor actors and sound folks won't need to suffer through convincing us everyone is in low g and wearing mag boots. I'm worried about the ankles of the former and the sanity of the latter!
That actually bugged me during S2E02
Landing on drive cone eh? Literally unwatchable. Tho I did always wonder how it was supposed to land on its belly with a railgun mounted there...
Also, was kinda hoping for a new paintjob! I guess at some point the Beratnas Gas thing became permanent, but that was a disguise, which Alex ditched with some great fanfare at the end of season 1. I want em to get their own custom colours on there!
"Scientists have created edible water."
So they created water?
Book 4
Plus, landing with the Epstein drive is going to put them in a lake of lava.
Where you even paying attention?! Edible water is a major breakthrough! Did you know in its basic form water is the most dangerous substance on Earth?
It’s colorless, odorless, and deadly if inhaled.
It’s a byproduct of rocket fuel, and can cause severe burns in its gaseous form.
Its highly corrosive.
There is a 100% death rate associated with those who have casually consumed water during their lifetime.
Next time check the facts before you post.
It's like the most disappointing xialong bao imaginable
Yes if there is stuff not battened down manuvering thrusters are very much strong enough to make them deadly hazards during combat manuvers. Still the main bulk of your "gravity" is going to be from the main thrusters.