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[The Expanse] You know a lot about how people die.

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Posts

  • chrono_travellerchrono_traveller Registered User regular
    TheBigEasy wrote: »
    Went through season 3 over the weekend (and watched S1 and 2 again before that). Holy crap, what a show.
    Ashford (or rather David Strathairn, who btw I just learned is already 70 years old) is just fantastic. As is Drummer. Question for the book people - why are Dawes and Johnson so out of the picture? Just because they are not near the ring?

    I didn't like the Melba and Miller plots too much, especially the latter veered a bit too much from the hard SF of the rest of the show for my taste.

    And do I want the Razorback in my garage.

    But overall, holy crap, what a show. Haven't read the books yet, but I can't wait for season 4.

    Concerning Dawes and Johnson
    I think it was probably a matter of having not enough for them to do, along with having to cram all the stuff that goes into season 3 already, that they wrote them out of the season. I figure it was a cost saving issue, or maybe even that they didn't sign the actors to a full season contract, and they might have been unable/unavailable to do a guest spot or two.

    The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it. ~ Terry Pratchett

    George R. R. Martin is not your bitch. ~ Neil Gaiman
  • BlazeFireBlazeFire Registered User regular
    edited February 19
    I just finished watching season 3. I have not read the books. I have questions/speculation.
    So there are 2 "AIs" involved? The station and Miller?

    The station had opened the initial ring as a test for whoever was in the system. If it was whatever destroyed the original builders, presumably it would have not opened all the other gates. Would this all have gone differently if the racer hadn't tried to go through at such a high rate of speed?

    Does the Station AI share the same goal as Miller-AI, to find what destroyed the original builders?

    I'm glad Season 4 is later this year. I'm excited for it.


    edit: I was looking at the book titles. Does Season 3 really only go to the end of Book 3?

    BlazeFire on
    Dark Raven X
  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    BlazeFire wrote: »
    I just finished watching season 3. I have not read the books. I have questions/speculation.
    So there are 2 "AIs" involved? The station and Miller?

    The station had opened the initial ring as a test for whoever was in the system. If it was whatever destroyed the original builders, presumably it would have not opened all the other gates. Would this all have gone differently if the racer hadn't tried to go through at such a high rate of speed?

    Does the Station AI share the same goal as Miller-AI, to find what destroyed the original builders?

    I'm glad Season 4 is later this year. I'm excited for it.


    edit: I was looking at the book titles. Does Season 3 really only go to the end of Book 3?

    I don't know if you want book answers but they follow. Be aware I haven't caught up on season 3 and know a few things get changed around so I'm answering broadly:

    BOOK SPOILERS 3:
    AI is probably the wrong term but yes. Two made from the same "OS" but with different goals.

    The station opened the initial ring because Eros via Venus had finished building the other end of it. This presumably got around the quarantine. I don't think the Racer screwed up too much stuff but it probably made the station a bit more wary than otherwise.

    The station AI was about managing the hub of gates. It was on lockdown to prevent the spread of protomolecule creator destroyer thingys. Miller-AI basically rebooted it to reset the quarantine because he wants to finish his program and find the protomolecule creators.

    Dark Raven XZilla360
  • DecomposeyDecomposey Registered User regular
    BlazeFire wrote: »
    I just finished watching season 3. I have not read the books. I have questions/speculation.
    So there are 2 "AIs" involved? The station and Miller?

    The station had opened the initial ring as a test for whoever was in the system. If it was whatever destroyed the original builders, presumably it would have not opened all the other gates. Would this all have gone differently if the racer hadn't tried to go through at such a high rate of speed?

    Does the Station AI share the same goal as Miller-AI, to find what destroyed the original builders?

    I'm glad Season 4 is later this year. I'm excited for it.


    edit: I was looking at the book titles. Does Season 3 really only go to the end of Book 3?

    I don't know if you want book answers but they follow. Be aware I haven't caught up on season 3 and know a few things get changed around so I'm answering broadly:

    BOOK SPOILERS 3:
    AI is probably the wrong term but yes. Two made from the same "OS" but with different goals.

    The station opened the initial ring because Eros via Venus had finished building the other end of it. This presumably got around the quarantine. I don't think the Racer screwed up too much stuff but it probably made the station a bit more wary than otherwise.

    The station AI was about managing the hub of gates. It was on lockdown to prevent the spread of protomolecule creator destroyer thingys. Miller-AI basically rebooted it to reset the quarantine because he wants to finish his program and find the protomolecule creators.

    So basically something they go into more detail in the book but just mention very briefly in the show
    In the show there is a scene where Miller says "It reaches out. It reaches out, 113 times a second it reaches out, and gets no answer."

    Basically the has a protocol that when a new gate connection is established, it sends that data to the gate builders. Kinda like when you connect to the internet, your computer sends out a signal, and your ISP sends back a confirmation. If your computer doesn't get the confirmations, it assumes it didn't go through, and resends.

    But the gate isn't getting the confirmation. So it resends. 113 times a second. And doesn't get an answer. So the computer sets up a virtual machine (miller) with some investigation programs to troubleshoot the problem. And that virtual machine, as a part of its troubleshooting process, reboots the system. This opens all the gates. It is not a test that humanity passes, because the station cares as much about humanity as the protomolecule does: as nothing more than possible building material.

    The station Ai's only goal at this point is what amounts to an intergalactic Ping. Millers goal is to find out why that ping can't succeed.

    The area inside the gate (The Slow Zone) wasn't a test, it just had a safe speed limit. The station was programed that anything going faster than the limit wasn't safe, and to apprehend it. Until the station was taught that things moving at the speed of a grenade are not safe, so it changed the speed limit to the speed of a grenade.

    Before following any advice, opinions, or thoughts I may have expressed in the above post, be warned: I found Keven Costners "Waterworld" to be a very entertaining film.
  • BlazeFireBlazeFire Registered User regular
    Decomposey wrote: »
    BlazeFire wrote: »
    I just finished watching season 3. I have not read the books. I have questions/speculation.
    So there are 2 "AIs" involved? The station and Miller?

    The station had opened the initial ring as a test for whoever was in the system. If it was whatever destroyed the original builders, presumably it would have not opened all the other gates. Would this all have gone differently if the racer hadn't tried to go through at such a high rate of speed?

    Does the Station AI share the same goal as Miller-AI, to find what destroyed the original builders?

    I'm glad Season 4 is later this year. I'm excited for it.


    edit: I was looking at the book titles. Does Season 3 really only go to the end of Book 3?

    I don't know if you want book answers but they follow. Be aware I haven't caught up on season 3 and know a few things get changed around so I'm answering broadly:

    BOOK SPOILERS 3:
    AI is probably the wrong term but yes. Two made from the same "OS" but with different goals.

    The station opened the initial ring because Eros via Venus had finished building the other end of it. This presumably got around the quarantine. I don't think the Racer screwed up too much stuff but it probably made the station a bit more wary than otherwise.

    The station AI was about managing the hub of gates. It was on lockdown to prevent the spread of protomolecule creator destroyer thingys. Miller-AI basically rebooted it to reset the quarantine because he wants to finish his program and find the protomolecule creators.

    So basically something they go into more detail in the book but just mention very briefly in the show
    In the show there is a scene where Miller says "It reaches out. It reaches out, 113 times a second it reaches out, and gets no answer."

    Basically the has a protocol that when a new gate connection is established, it sends that data to the gate builders. Kinda like when you connect to the internet, your computer sends out a signal, and your ISP sends back a confirmation. If your computer doesn't get the confirmations, it assumes it didn't go through, and resends.

    But the gate isn't getting the confirmation. So it resends. 113 times a second. And doesn't get an answer. So the computer sets up a virtual machine (miller) with some investigation programs to troubleshoot the problem. And that virtual machine, as a part of its troubleshooting process, reboots the system. This opens all the gates. It is not a test that humanity passes, because the station cares as much about humanity as the protomolecule does: as nothing more than possible building material.

    The station Ai's only goal at this point is what amounts to an intergalactic Ping. Millers goal is to find out why that ping can't succeed.

    The area inside the gate (The Slow Zone) wasn't a test, it just had a safe speed limit. The station was programed that anything going faster than the limit wasn't safe, and to apprehend it. Until the station was taught that things moving at the speed of a grenade are not safe, so it changed the speed limit to the speed of a grenade.

    Thanks for the info. Some more questions then.
    Is it explained why Holden (or somebody) is required to help Miller reboot the station?
    Any explanation why the the reboot opens all the gates? Did something finally respond to a ping?

  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    BlazeFire wrote: »
    Decomposey wrote: »
    BlazeFire wrote: »
    I just finished watching season 3. I have not read the books. I have questions/speculation.
    So there are 2 "AIs" involved? The station and Miller?

    The station had opened the initial ring as a test for whoever was in the system. If it was whatever destroyed the original builders, presumably it would have not opened all the other gates. Would this all have gone differently if the racer hadn't tried to go through at such a high rate of speed?

    Does the Station AI share the same goal as Miller-AI, to find what destroyed the original builders?

    I'm glad Season 4 is later this year. I'm excited for it.


    edit: I was looking at the book titles. Does Season 3 really only go to the end of Book 3?

    I don't know if you want book answers but they follow. Be aware I haven't caught up on season 3 and know a few things get changed around so I'm answering broadly:

    BOOK SPOILERS 3:
    AI is probably the wrong term but yes. Two made from the same "OS" but with different goals.

    The station opened the initial ring because Eros via Venus had finished building the other end of it. This presumably got around the quarantine. I don't think the Racer screwed up too much stuff but it probably made the station a bit more wary than otherwise.

    The station AI was about managing the hub of gates. It was on lockdown to prevent the spread of protomolecule creator destroyer thingys. Miller-AI basically rebooted it to reset the quarantine because he wants to finish his program and find the protomolecule creators.

    So basically something they go into more detail in the book but just mention very briefly in the show
    In the show there is a scene where Miller says "It reaches out. It reaches out, 113 times a second it reaches out, and gets no answer."

    Basically the has a protocol that when a new gate connection is established, it sends that data to the gate builders. Kinda like when you connect to the internet, your computer sends out a signal, and your ISP sends back a confirmation. If your computer doesn't get the confirmations, it assumes it didn't go through, and resends.

    But the gate isn't getting the confirmation. So it resends. 113 times a second. And doesn't get an answer. So the computer sets up a virtual machine (miller) with some investigation programs to troubleshoot the problem. And that virtual machine, as a part of its troubleshooting process, reboots the system. This opens all the gates. It is not a test that humanity passes, because the station cares as much about humanity as the protomolecule does: as nothing more than possible building material.

    The station Ai's only goal at this point is what amounts to an intergalactic Ping. Millers goal is to find out why that ping can't succeed.

    The area inside the gate (The Slow Zone) wasn't a test, it just had a safe speed limit. The station was programed that anything going faster than the limit wasn't safe, and to apprehend it. Until the station was taught that things moving at the speed of a grenade are not safe, so it changed the speed limit to the speed of a grenade.

    Thanks for the info. Some more questions then.
    Is it explained why Holden (or somebody) is required to help Miller reboot the station?
    Any explanation why the the reboot opens all the gates? Did something finally respond to a ping?
    I think Holden is needed because the Miller construct isn't really mobile. It's based off of a chunk of protomatter in the ship that's tweaked to Holden's brain to create the illusion that Miller is there, and I think Holden is how the construct is able to perceive the world. Eyes and ears. Could be wrong on that, it's been a while.

    The reboot doesn't stop the new gate's system from trying to ping in, but the system comes back up in what is more like the normal operating mode and without gate lockdown and safety protocols that had been started up when the protomatter guys' started getting crumped by whatever/whoever eventually took them out.

    Book spoiler
    Dunno if this was in the show, but the book talks about how the fall of their empire came about. Basically a solar system would go dark, and to try and prevent whatever killed everything in that system to go dark, the gate station or whoever was manning it, would burn that system down and then shut that gate down. It talks about the gate spewing fire, which is some crazy stuff if it's talking about enough fire to try and wipe out a hostile force that could be almost anywhere in a solar system. That didn't stop things though, and after killing some number of planetary systems they got serious and started locking things down.

    Dark Raven Xoverride367chrono_travellerZilla360
  • RichyRichy Registered User regular
    BlazeFire wrote: »
    Decomposey wrote: »
    BlazeFire wrote: »
    I just finished watching season 3. I have not read the books. I have questions/speculation.
    So there are 2 "AIs" involved? The station and Miller?

    The station had opened the initial ring as a test for whoever was in the system. If it was whatever destroyed the original builders, presumably it would have not opened all the other gates. Would this all have gone differently if the racer hadn't tried to go through at such a high rate of speed?

    Does the Station AI share the same goal as Miller-AI, to find what destroyed the original builders?

    I'm glad Season 4 is later this year. I'm excited for it.


    edit: I was looking at the book titles. Does Season 3 really only go to the end of Book 3?

    I don't know if you want book answers but they follow. Be aware I haven't caught up on season 3 and know a few things get changed around so I'm answering broadly:

    BOOK SPOILERS 3:
    AI is probably the wrong term but yes. Two made from the same "OS" but with different goals.

    The station opened the initial ring because Eros via Venus had finished building the other end of it. This presumably got around the quarantine. I don't think the Racer screwed up too much stuff but it probably made the station a bit more wary than otherwise.

    The station AI was about managing the hub of gates. It was on lockdown to prevent the spread of protomolecule creator destroyer thingys. Miller-AI basically rebooted it to reset the quarantine because he wants to finish his program and find the protomolecule creators.

    So basically something they go into more detail in the book but just mention very briefly in the show
    In the show there is a scene where Miller says "It reaches out. It reaches out, 113 times a second it reaches out, and gets no answer."

    Basically the has a protocol that when a new gate connection is established, it sends that data to the gate builders. Kinda like when you connect to the internet, your computer sends out a signal, and your ISP sends back a confirmation. If your computer doesn't get the confirmations, it assumes it didn't go through, and resends.

    But the gate isn't getting the confirmation. So it resends. 113 times a second. And doesn't get an answer. So the computer sets up a virtual machine (miller) with some investigation programs to troubleshoot the problem. And that virtual machine, as a part of its troubleshooting process, reboots the system. This opens all the gates. It is not a test that humanity passes, because the station cares as much about humanity as the protomolecule does: as nothing more than possible building material.

    The station Ai's only goal at this point is what amounts to an intergalactic Ping. Millers goal is to find out why that ping can't succeed.

    The area inside the gate (The Slow Zone) wasn't a test, it just had a safe speed limit. The station was programed that anything going faster than the limit wasn't safe, and to apprehend it. Until the station was taught that things moving at the speed of a grenade are not safe, so it changed the speed limit to the speed of a grenade.

    Thanks for the info. Some more questions then.
    Is it explained why Holden (or somebody) is required to help Miller reboot the station?
    Any explanation why the the reboot opens all the gates? Did something finally respond to a ping?
    1. Privilege of corporeal beings. The software cannot reboot itself, it needs a physical user ordering the reboot.
    2. That's the default startup setting. In fact some of the conflict in that book comes from making that decision: rebooting is the only way to end the speed limit and leave the slow zone, but it will open the gates and who knows what's on the other side.

    sig.gif
  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    Richy wrote: »
    BlazeFire wrote: »
    Decomposey wrote: »
    BlazeFire wrote: »
    I just finished watching season 3. I have not read the books. I have questions/speculation.
    So there are 2 "AIs" involved? The station and Miller?

    The station had opened the initial ring as a test for whoever was in the system. If it was whatever destroyed the original builders, presumably it would have not opened all the other gates. Would this all have gone differently if the racer hadn't tried to go through at such a high rate of speed?

    Does the Station AI share the same goal as Miller-AI, to find what destroyed the original builders?

    I'm glad Season 4 is later this year. I'm excited for it.


    edit: I was looking at the book titles. Does Season 3 really only go to the end of Book 3?

    I don't know if you want book answers but they follow. Be aware I haven't caught up on season 3 and know a few things get changed around so I'm answering broadly:

    BOOK SPOILERS 3:
    AI is probably the wrong term but yes. Two made from the same "OS" but with different goals.

    The station opened the initial ring because Eros via Venus had finished building the other end of it. This presumably got around the quarantine. I don't think the Racer screwed up too much stuff but it probably made the station a bit more wary than otherwise.

    The station AI was about managing the hub of gates. It was on lockdown to prevent the spread of protomolecule creator destroyer thingys. Miller-AI basically rebooted it to reset the quarantine because he wants to finish his program and find the protomolecule creators.

    So basically something they go into more detail in the book but just mention very briefly in the show
    In the show there is a scene where Miller says "It reaches out. It reaches out, 113 times a second it reaches out, and gets no answer."

    Basically the has a protocol that when a new gate connection is established, it sends that data to the gate builders. Kinda like when you connect to the internet, your computer sends out a signal, and your ISP sends back a confirmation. If your computer doesn't get the confirmations, it assumes it didn't go through, and resends.

    But the gate isn't getting the confirmation. So it resends. 113 times a second. And doesn't get an answer. So the computer sets up a virtual machine (miller) with some investigation programs to troubleshoot the problem. And that virtual machine, as a part of its troubleshooting process, reboots the system. This opens all the gates. It is not a test that humanity passes, because the station cares as much about humanity as the protomolecule does: as nothing more than possible building material.

    The station Ai's only goal at this point is what amounts to an intergalactic Ping. Millers goal is to find out why that ping can't succeed.

    The area inside the gate (The Slow Zone) wasn't a test, it just had a safe speed limit. The station was programed that anything going faster than the limit wasn't safe, and to apprehend it. Until the station was taught that things moving at the speed of a grenade are not safe, so it changed the speed limit to the speed of a grenade.

    Thanks for the info. Some more questions then.
    Is it explained why Holden (or somebody) is required to help Miller reboot the station?
    Any explanation why the the reboot opens all the gates? Did something finally respond to a ping?
    1. Privilege of corporeal beings. The software cannot reboot itself, it needs a physical user ordering the reboot.
    2. That's the default startup setting. In fact some of the conflict in that book comes from making that decision: rebooting is the only way to end the speed limit and leave the slow zone, but it will open the gates and who knows what's on the other side.

    Book 3:
    1. I swear in the book he physically holds a button or something. Definitely the idea that it needs a not-software being to reboot though.
    2. Also note it basically shuts down the station AI entirely. Those things are never coming back even if we would want them to. Miller-AI can interface with the software but in a very cludgy way and he doesn't have much nuance.

  • BlazeFireBlazeFire Registered User regular
    Ah, it is more of a "reset to defaults" than a "reboot".

    DevoutlyApathetic
  • BigityBigity Lubbock, TXRegistered User regular
    Just finished Cibola Burn....wasn't my favorite book so far, I like the space stuff better I suppose.

    Still need to catch Season 3, I missed all of this when it was on SyFy, and Season 3 isn't free on Amazon Prime Video yet.

    Excited for the new stuff.

    And will probably even buy the RPG even if just for the fluff.

    76561198017303226.png
  • BlazeFireBlazeFire Registered User regular
    Bigity wrote: »
    Just finished Cibola Burn....wasn't my favorite book so far, I like the space stuff better I suppose.

    Still need to catch Season 3, I missed all of this when it was on SyFy, and Season 3 isn't free on Amazon Prime Video yet.

    Excited for the new stuff.

    And will probably even buy the RPG even if just for the fluff.

    Weird, I watched Season 3 on Amazon Prime Video last week. Country issue maybe?

    redxchrono_traveller
  • BigityBigity Lubbock, TXRegistered User regular
    BlazeFire wrote: »
    Bigity wrote: »
    Just finished Cibola Burn....wasn't my favorite book so far, I like the space stuff better I suppose.

    Still need to catch Season 3, I missed all of this when it was on SyFy, and Season 3 isn't free on Amazon Prime Video yet.

    Excited for the new stuff.

    And will probably even buy the RPG even if just for the fluff.

    Weird, I watched Season 3 on Amazon Prime Video last week. Country issue maybe?

    It's there, just wasn't free (last time I checked, which has been a couple of months). Time to check again!

    76561198017303226.png
  • metaghostmetaghost Registered User regular
    It was made free on Feb 8th, which would explain why so many of us are just getting around to watching it.

    Bandcamp (I make weird rap music) / PSN: Mugen_Kikaider
    Bigity
  • VeeveeVeevee WisconsinRegistered User regular
    daveNYC wrote: »
    BlazeFire wrote: »
    Decomposey wrote: »
    BlazeFire wrote: »
    I just finished watching season 3. I have not read the books. I have questions/speculation.
    So there are 2 "AIs" involved? The station and Miller?

    The station had opened the initial ring as a test for whoever was in the system. If it was whatever destroyed the original builders, presumably it would have not opened all the other gates. Would this all have gone differently if the racer hadn't tried to go through at such a high rate of speed?

    Does the Station AI share the same goal as Miller-AI, to find what destroyed the original builders?

    I'm glad Season 4 is later this year. I'm excited for it.


    edit: I was looking at the book titles. Does Season 3 really only go to the end of Book 3?

    I don't know if you want book answers but they follow. Be aware I haven't caught up on season 3 and know a few things get changed around so I'm answering broadly:

    BOOK SPOILERS 3:
    AI is probably the wrong term but yes. Two made from the same "OS" but with different goals.

    The station opened the initial ring because Eros via Venus had finished building the other end of it. This presumably got around the quarantine. I don't think the Racer screwed up too much stuff but it probably made the station a bit more wary than otherwise.

    The station AI was about managing the hub of gates. It was on lockdown to prevent the spread of protomolecule creator destroyer thingys. Miller-AI basically rebooted it to reset the quarantine because he wants to finish his program and find the protomolecule creators.

    So basically something they go into more detail in the book but just mention very briefly in the show
    In the show there is a scene where Miller says "It reaches out. It reaches out, 113 times a second it reaches out, and gets no answer."

    Basically the has a protocol that when a new gate connection is established, it sends that data to the gate builders. Kinda like when you connect to the internet, your computer sends out a signal, and your ISP sends back a confirmation. If your computer doesn't get the confirmations, it assumes it didn't go through, and resends.

    But the gate isn't getting the confirmation. So it resends. 113 times a second. And doesn't get an answer. So the computer sets up a virtual machine (miller) with some investigation programs to troubleshoot the problem. And that virtual machine, as a part of its troubleshooting process, reboots the system. This opens all the gates. It is not a test that humanity passes, because the station cares as much about humanity as the protomolecule does: as nothing more than possible building material.

    The station Ai's only goal at this point is what amounts to an intergalactic Ping. Millers goal is to find out why that ping can't succeed.

    The area inside the gate (The Slow Zone) wasn't a test, it just had a safe speed limit. The station was programed that anything going faster than the limit wasn't safe, and to apprehend it. Until the station was taught that things moving at the speed of a grenade are not safe, so it changed the speed limit to the speed of a grenade.

    Thanks for the info. Some more questions then.
    Is it explained why Holden (or somebody) is required to help Miller reboot the station?
    Any explanation why the the reboot opens all the gates? Did something finally respond to a ping?
    I think Holden is needed because the Miller construct isn't really mobile. It's based off of a chunk of protomatter in the ship that's tweaked to Holden's brain to create the illusion that Miller is there, and I think Holden is how the construct is able to perceive the world. Eyes and ears. Could be wrong on that, it's been a while.

    The reboot doesn't stop the new gate's system from trying to ping in, but the system comes back up in what is more like the normal operating mode and without gate lockdown and safety protocols that had been started up when the protomatter guys' started getting crumped by whatever/whoever eventually took them out.

    Book spoiler
    Dunno if this was in the show, but the book talks about how the fall of their empire came about. Basically a solar system would go dark, and to try and prevent whatever killed everything in that system to go dark, the gate station or whoever was manning it, would burn that system down and then shut that gate down. It talks about the gate spewing fire, which is some crazy stuff if it's talking about enough fire to try and wipe out a hostile force that could be almost anywhere in a solar system. That didn't stop things though, and after killing some number of planetary systems they got serious and started locking things down.

    Regarding your nested spoiler
    I believe Show-Holden has a dream/vision about a beam shooting into a star from a gate, which makes the star explode and destroy that solar system. He later explicitly states this is how the Creators were trying to stop the Destructors.

    DoodmannVishNuboverride367chrono_travellerZilla360
  • CanadianWolverineCanadianWolverine Registered User regular
    Bigity wrote: »
    Just finished Cibola Burn....wasn't my favorite book so far, I like the space stuff better I suppose.

    Still need to catch Season 3, I missed all of this when it was on SyFy, and Season 3 isn't free on Amazon Prime Video yet.

    Excited for the new stuff.

    And will probably even buy the RPG even if just for the fluff.

    RPG? Did the authors finally get their shot at making this setting into a MMO of sorts?

    steam_sig.png
  • Descendant XDescendant X Hank Facepunch Registered User regular
    While I think the setting could make for a good video game, I feel like the game has been made at least 10 times already.

    Something used to be here. It's gone now.
  • SurfpossumSurfpossum A nonentity trying to preserve the anonymity he so richly deserves.Registered User regular
    Oh my goodness.

    "I am that guy."

    icon.png facebookIcon.png tumblrIcon.png
    is this how nations are born
    XeddicusDark Raven XJragghenthatassemblyguyZilla360GONG-00Thawmus
  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    It was predictable, but very good.

    "For no one - no one in this world can you trust. Not men. Not women. Not beasts...this you can trust."
    Surfpossumchrono_travellerJragghenDoodmannTofystedethGONG-00MulysaSemproniusThawmus
  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    While I think the setting could make for a good video game, I feel like the game has been made at least 10 times already.

    It'd be a great setting, but a space game with Newtonian physics and no FTL would be rough.

  • VeeveeVeevee WisconsinRegistered User regular
    daveNYC wrote: »
    While I think the setting could make for a good video game, I feel like the game has been made at least 10 times already.

    It'd be a great setting, but a space game with Newtonian physics and no FTL would be rough.

    That's already been made anyway. It's called Kerbal Space Program. There's gotta be an expanse mod for that game.

    chrono_travellerArbitraryDescriptor
  • MegaMan001MegaMan001 CRNA Rochester, MNRegistered User regular
    Regarding the questions above about Miller is I think that while part of the story in the book is incredibly poorly explained.

    Maybe it's supposed to represent Humans inability to understand?

    I am in the business of saving lives.
  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    Veevee wrote: »
    daveNYC wrote: »
    While I think the setting could make for a good video game, I feel like the game has been made at least 10 times already.

    It'd be a great setting, but a space game with Newtonian physics and no FTL would be rough.

    That's already been made anyway. It's called Kerbal Space Program. There's gotta be an expanse mod for that game.

    As if the poor Kerbals don't run enough risk collecting science without throwing the protomolecule into the mix.

    RchanenKashaarArbitraryDescriptor
  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    MegaMan001 wrote: »
    Regarding the questions above about Miller is I think that while part of the story in the book is incredibly poorly explained.

    Maybe it's supposed to represent Humans inability to understand?

    I definitely think the information given is restricted because of how little the characters know. One of the major plots running through the Expanse is how mankind deals when it runs into things that are just completely beyond their current knowledge. It changes over the course of the story as we learn more about the protomolecule but it never really goes away.

    Steelhawk
  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    Also I'm up to near the end of Season 2. I stopped watching initially because the changes generally rankled me. I don't think most of them were for the better and a lot of them were to just add melodrama. A break away from the series has helped me get over this and view them as more separate things. At the end of Episode 11(?) and holy crap are my complaints back. Like they managed to fuck every story thread for drama.
    Holden insisting they bring the Roci inside the wreckage of an Ag dome was just fucking dumb. When he insisted on keeping it up while Naomi was in direct danger just made him a giant fucking asshole. Which annoys me as that's directly against one of the cores of his character from the book. TV Holden has pretty much zero positive traits.

    Avarsanda boarding the ship to talk to Mao was also pretty dumb and lacked the set up that justified her putting herself in such a weak position that the books had. They've generally flattened all the politics from the books by just having people take turns curling their mustaches while talking about how horrible they are. Like Ganymede is shutting down, right this instant and the fleet of fucking ships surrounding it are all "Whelp, time for thousands to just suffocate and die while we enforce the blockade because it's our turn to twirl the mustache. Especially after the relief ship had launched and offered to surrender. There was no excuse for them torpedoing it aside from DRAMA and the show being willing to have everybody be evil murderous fucks if it lets them get their dramatic moment.

    Like in Bobbie's storyline. The MCRN did fucking WHAT? "Kill a platoon of our marines, it'll be fine!" Let me twirl my mustache a bit while I talk to you about duty and sacrifice, all while betraying the super secret program to the woman who has me in her complete physical power. I'm sure that'll be fine because it advances the plot even if it undermines my entire character so far. The other bit is they basically lost the humanizing PTSD storyline, which is probably good from how the show has handled nuanced things like that. For example, all of Bobbie's competences that weren't beating the shit out of people are gone. In the book she's the one who knows her armor forwards and backwards and is able to help extract the footage that vindicates her story. Additionally she's the one who reads people well enough to spot the mole and then executes a plan to expose them. Book Bobbie is scary on multiple levels. Show Bobbie is a meathead, whose clever move so far was removing a window that inexplicably was held in by weather stripping with no alarms in a secure military compound.

    The Expanse books focus on the ambiguity of humanity. Of how people are capable of great acts of kindness and cruelty and often both from the same person. They focus on how these exceptional circumstances reveal the humanity of the characters. In the exceptional events of the series it reveals that the people involved are people with all the complexity and consistency of those you know. The show warps the characters to deliver the story, even if it leaves the characters twisted into nonsensical pretzels so long as they get their swelling music and shocking twists then they're okay with that. Fundamentally I think the show lacks the insight into the human heart of the books. Which sure is a weird thing to say about a series known for puking space zombies.

  • BigityBigity Lubbock, TXRegistered User regular
    edited February 21
    Bigity wrote: »
    Just finished Cibola Burn....wasn't my favorite book so far, I like the space stuff better I suppose.

    Still need to catch Season 3, I missed all of this when it was on SyFy, and Season 3 isn't free on Amazon Prime Video yet.

    Excited for the new stuff.

    And will probably even buy the RPG even if just for the fluff.

    RPG? Did the authors finally get their shot at making this setting into a MMO of sorts?

    Apparently it (the novel) was first developed out of a game they were playing. It's not a MMO though, a table top RPG. Quick start rules are out, with the full book due soon.

    Bigity on
    76561198017303226.png
    DevoutlyApatheticitalianranmaThawmus
  • BigityBigity Lubbock, TXRegistered User regular
    edited February 21
    Also I'm up to near the end of Season 2. I stopped watching initially because the changes generally rankled me. I don't think most of them were for the better and a lot of them were to just add melodrama. A break away from the series has helped me get over this and view them as more separate things. At the end of Episode 11(?) and holy crap are my complaints back. Like they managed to fuck every story thread for drama.
    Holden insisting they bring the Roci inside the wreckage of an Ag dome was just fucking dumb. When he insisted on keeping it up while Naomi was in direct danger just made him a giant fucking asshole. Which annoys me as that's directly against one of the cores of his character from the book. TV Holden has pretty much zero positive traits.

    Avarsanda boarding the ship to talk to Mao was also pretty dumb and lacked the set up that justified her putting herself in such a weak position that the books had. They've generally flattened all the politics from the books by just having people take turns curling their mustaches while talking about how horrible they are. Like Ganymede is shutting down, right this instant and the fleet of fucking ships surrounding it are all "Whelp, time for thousands to just suffocate and die while we enforce the blockade because it's our turn to twirl the mustache. Especially after the relief ship had launched and offered to surrender. There was no excuse for them torpedoing it aside from DRAMA and the show being willing to have everybody be evil murderous fucks if it lets them get their dramatic moment.

    Like in Bobbie's storyline. The MCRN did fucking WHAT? "Kill a platoon of our marines, it'll be fine!" Let me twirl my mustache a bit while I talk to you about duty and sacrifice, all while betraying the super secret program to the woman who has me in her complete physical power. I'm sure that'll be fine because it advances the plot even if it undermines my entire character so far. The other bit is they basically lost the humanizing PTSD storyline, which is probably good from how the show has handled nuanced things like that. For example, all of Bobbie's competences that weren't beating the shit out of people are gone. In the book she's the one who knows her armor forwards and backwards and is able to help extract the footage that vindicates her story. Additionally she's the one who reads people well enough to spot the mole and then executes a plan to expose them. Book Bobbie is scary on multiple levels. Show Bobbie is a meathead, whose clever move so far was removing a window that inexplicably was held in by weather stripping with no alarms in a secure military compound.

    The Expanse books focus on the ambiguity of humanity. Of how people are capable of great acts of kindness and cruelty and often both from the same person. They focus on how these exceptional circumstances reveal the humanity of the characters. In the exceptional events of the series it reveals that the people involved are people with all the complexity and consistency of those you know. The show warps the characters to deliver the story, even if it leaves the characters twisted into nonsensical pretzels so long as they get their swelling music and shocking twists then they're okay with that. Fundamentally I think the show lacks the insight into the human heart of the books. Which sure is a weird thing to say about a series known for puking space zombies.
    But there is a period of time where this is covered in the books. Naomi breaks up with him over it, until he becomes 'the man she fell in love with again'. Maybe they are mucking about with that (which in the books happens over a year or so when they are basically the OPAs hit squad vs pirates). There is another bit at Ganymede where he is freaking the hell out about seeing some protomolecule related stuff from the monsters and everyone reacts like he is over the top.

    I have to agree with the Bobbie bit - seems changed just to change it.

    And the removal of a lot of the political stuff - guess they felt that was the easiest way to cut down time.

    Bigity on
    76561198017303226.png
  • MegaMan001MegaMan001 CRNA Rochester, MNRegistered User regular
    I've absolutely loved the changes for Holden described above.

    I am in the business of saving lives.
  • ArtereisArtereis Registered User regular
    I thought they corrected S2's Bobbie with S3. She felt much more like herself.

    JragghenDracomicronCanadianWolverine
  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    Bigity wrote: »
    But there is a period of time where this is covered in the books. Naomi breaks up with him over it, until he becomes 'the man she fell in love with again'. Maybe they are mucking about with that (which in the books happens over a year or so when they are basically the OPAs hit squad vs pirates). There is another bit at Ganymede where he is freaking the hell out about seeing some protomolecule related stuff from the monsters and everyone reacts like he is over the top.

    I have to agree with the Bobbie bit - seems changed just to change it.

    And the removal of a lot of the political stuff - guess they felt that was the easiest way to cut down time.

    Books to 3:
    To be fair to the show they do cram in a whole lot more characterization for folks not named Holden. In book 1 you learn a fair amount about Holden and Miller, a bit about Naomi and then Alex and Amos have names. Book 2 adds Avarsala, Bobbie and Prax all getting a fair amount of time but don't do much for the rest of the crew. The show has done a whole lot more with all of them.

    At least that was what I was gonna say but I just finished season 2 and I'm back to hating the show now.
    Bobbie's rampage is like ten fucking seconds of back drop about entirely other things. Fucking show, that was what I watched this season for and you just fuck it all up. They even placed Mao on the ship so when they just jet off and not seize his evil ass it is gonna make even less sense! RAWR.

    At least they did the ship exploded view thing and it looked pretty cool.

  • Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    Humanity in the books is either so stupidly evil or so stupidly stupid that it just makes me root for the extinction angle. I actually gave up on the books because the characterizations were so flat, and the justifications for character actions so terrible.

    The show does a total 180 on these elements, and gives us a cast of human characters making human decisions for human reasons. The handful of irredeemably evil/insane characters are actually supposed to be that way and their madness actually fits into the story, and everybody else is mostly just trying to stay alive and fix situations made either by themselves or others.

    The worst I can say about Bobbie is that they kept her too much like the books for too long, and then her long recovery following that looks like a bunch of awkward writing about an uncertain character. We really really needed to know more about Bobbie than "fuck Earth 24/7!" before her world gets rattled and she has to put herself back together; then we would've properly known just how messed-up she was, and been able to see when she was coming back to herself rather than kinda swerving around personality-wise.

    ArbitraryDescriptor
  • AiouaAioua Ora Occidens Ora OptimaRegistered User regular
    Humanity in the books is either so stupidly evil or so stupidly stupid that it just makes me root for the extinction angle. I actually gave up on the books because the characterizations were so flat, and the justifications for character actions so terrible.

    [...]

    I mean have you looked at the state of today's humanity...

    life's a game that you're bound to lose / like using a hammer to pound in screws
    fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
    that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
    bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
    Richychrono_travellerKashaar
  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    The shit security could be tightened up, but then that's a problem in all stories to move the plot along instead of ending at a checkpoint.

    But Clarissa wouldn't have been able to pull off what she did just as an example in reality, so things aren't quite that bad yet.

    "For no one - no one in this world can you trust. Not men. Not women. Not beasts...this you can trust."
  • DecomposeyDecomposey Registered User regular
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    The shit security could be tightened up, but then that's a problem in all stories to move the plot along instead of ending at a checkpoint.

    But Clarissa wouldn't have been able to pull off what she did just as an example in reality, so things aren't quite that bad yet.

    She absolutely would have been able to pull that off in reality. It's one of the reasons that I have to sit through annual Insider Threat training at work.

    Well not the jaw bitey thing. But everything else she did is completely possible.

    Before following any advice, opinions, or thoughts I may have expressed in the above post, be warned: I found Keven Costners "Waterworld" to be a very entertaining film.
    CanadianWolverineDracomicronKashaar
  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    Anyone can just hope into a shuttle and fly off? I am certain in space that alone would be a damn brick wall, but I guess people are stupid so I guess.

    "For no one - no one in this world can you trust. Not men. Not women. Not beasts...this you can trust."
  • Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    edited February 23
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    Anyone can just hope into a shuttle and fly off? I am certain in space that alone would be a damn brick wall, but I guess people are stupid so I guess.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dr-gridlock/wp/2018/08/11/plane-stolen-by-suicidal-airline-worker-crashed-with-fighter-jets-in-pursuit-outside-seattle/?utm_term=.b99282c3a74f

    Yup.

    Like right now, is anyone going to be able to launch a Falcon 9 on their own without authorization? hahaahah no.

    In the future, when taking a shuttle is the equivalent of driving a bus? Probably they could.

    Phoenix-D on
    Dracomicron
  • VoodooVVoodooV Registered User regular
    Passed my certification test this week so I can finally get back to book 4! Might as well just start over at the beginning since I didn't get very far into it and it's been months since I read it.

    chrono_travelleritalianranma
  • yossarian_livesyossarian_lives Registered User regular
    Decomposey wrote: »
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    The shit security could be tightened up, but then that's a problem in all stories to move the plot along instead of ending at a checkpoint.

    But Clarissa wouldn't have been able to pull off what she did just as an example in reality, so things aren't quite that bad yet.

    She absolutely would have been able to pull that off in reality. It's one of the reasons that I have to sit through annual Insider Threat training at work.

    Well not the jaw bitey thing. But everything else she did is completely possible.
    Hell, when I was in the Air Force we found out that a dude in our squadron was an active gang member. The standard background checks didn't even flag him. Turns out to be a common problem, according to the briefing materials sent out base wide after his arrest. So nothing Clarissa pulled off surprised me.

    "I see everything twice!"


    italianranmaDracomicronRichy
  • GONG-00GONG-00 Registered User regular
    Decomposey wrote: »
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    The shit security could be tightened up, but then that's a problem in all stories to move the plot along instead of ending at a checkpoint.

    But Clarissa wouldn't have been able to pull off what she did just as an example in reality, so things aren't quite that bad yet.

    She absolutely would have been able to pull that off in reality. It's one of the reasons that I have to sit through annual Insider Threat training at work.

    Well not the jaw bitey thing. But everything else she did is completely possible.
    Hell, when I was in the Air Force we found out that a dude in our squadron was an active gang member. The standard background checks didn't even flag him. Turns out to be a common problem, according to the briefing materials sent out base wide after his arrest. So nothing Clarissa pulled off surprised me.

    Despite being under economic sanctions, Clarissa would still have access to a wealth of resources in say her jewelry box to hand wave away many of the logistical details.

    Future Employee of Planetary Acquisitions, Inc.
    pNRtexA.png
  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. 5386-8443-8937Registered User regular
    Lots of complaints about realism overlook just how dumb reality is

    yossarian_livesDoodmannFeloniousmozKashaarDracomicronCanadianWolverineRichyZilla360jakobaggerThawmusitalianranmachrono_traveller
  • That_GuyThat_Guy I don't wanna be that guy Registered User regular
    Lots of complaints about realism overlook just how dumb reality is

    For real. IMO The Expense is the most realistic space scifi show I've ever seen. I absolutely buy the motivations of all these characters even if they aren't always the choices I would make.

    camo_sig.png
    italianranma
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