Something just feels way off with hit detection in Heroes. I can be waddling along right behind an enemy and never ever hit them with my melee attack.
It's like the melee range is shorter than your arms are.
i've seen that before, but usually on arthas. i dont think frostmourne counts towards his "reach" but i am not sure.
A case of "lol melee"? I mean, it has been Blizzard design policy since forever basically.
it is one of those things that i don't generally remember to take notice of, but when it happens when i need just one more damn melee hit i am ready to scream. so frustrating. mazzyx may be correct in his assessment
It occurs to me that I've never noticed this because the only melee I every play are Stitches and Kerrrigan, both of whom you don't escape from.
AegisFear My DanceOvershot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered Userregular
Something not terribly obvious, but melee characters have different melee attack ranges just like ranged characters can have different attack ranges.
It seems to be all over the place too, ranging from 1 (Abathur, Muradin, Uther), 1.2 (Diablo, Illidan, Murky), 1.5 (Anubarak, ETC, Rehgar, Sonya, Stitches, Tyrael, Zeratul), to 2 (Arthas, Chen, Kerrigan).
i don't mind the varying attack ranges, it is more that it seems...off i guess that arthas has such a short reach. a bigger range may be pushing the limit of reasonable, but the model makes it seem as though he should be able to hit things. probably just something i need to get over.
So I'm struggling to 5 with her, and I have to say Jaina is complete garbage. She either does too little damage for being immobile, or her cooldowns are too high.
I think a lot of Jaina's current problems could be addressed if the range/radius on pretty much all of her skills was increased. She has to get way too close for very little reward.
+2
AegisFear My DanceOvershot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered Userregular
I do like that if you take Arcane Intellect on her, then she might as well not have a mana bar.
Lili has single handedly changed my opinion of Conjurer's Pursuit. She gets infinite mana so so easily with it. Makes me want to re evaluate it on other heroes especially since even base it does something. Just probably not enough to offset the lost damage or what have you.
Lili has single handedly changed my opinion of Conjurer's Pursuit. She gets infinite mana so so easily with it. Makes me want to re evaluate it on other heroes especially since even base it does something. Just probably not enough to offset the lost damage or what have you.
It's reallllly good on healers specifically. Li Li and Malfurion are two heroes that I know it's amazing on, dunno about anyone else.
So I'm struggling to 5 with her, and I have to say Jaina is complete garbage. She either does too little damage for being immobile, or her cooldowns are too high.
She does tons of damage. She's just super squishy, and has no escapes / active defenses (unless talented), etc.
Really, I think both Jaina and Nova need to have a little damage trimmed for broader utility. Their ideal case burst damage is dumb, but they can run into issues (albeit Nova has invisibility which is huge) due to being made of paper. I don't want every character to be too similar, but the outliers are a bit too outlying right now.
Lili has single handedly changed my opinion of Conjurer's Pursuit. She gets infinite mana so so easily with it. Makes me want to re evaluate it on other heroes especially since even base it does something. Just probably not enough to offset the lost damage or what have you.
It's reallllly good on healers specifically. Li Li and Malfurion are two heroes that I know it's amazing on, dunno about anyone else.
Well, Malfurion has to take it because his other level 1 talents are absolute garbage.
Yeah, Jaina is good. I do pretty well with her. But she has an incredibly high learning curve. She's one of the hardest heroes to play. Positioning is everything. It doesn't matter if you land your spells if you're standing in the wrong spot.
Jaina has a 25% slow for 4 seconds on all her spells. That's plenty of utility.
or 35% slow for 4 seconds
or 25% slow for 6 seconds
Well, I guess using utility less technically. Extending her Cone of Cold range, not in an effort to make her damage more reliable (though it would do that too), but in an effort to increase safety.
The real irony is that Frost has always been the safest Mage PVP spec* due to the fact you're rooted 50% of the time and slowed 100% of the time, and iceblock iceblock iceblock iceblock.
* You might argue 2 minute mages, but those kids were scrubs who sucked at video games and hopefully moderately bad things happen to them, like every food order for the rest of their life is slightly wrong.
programjunkie on
0
AegisFear My DanceOvershot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered Userregular
The one nice thing about Jaina's weaknesses is that it introduces you very quickly to the beauty that is Sprint.
I really only take Sprint on two characters - Jaina and Nazeebo. Both have very similar playstyles too: drop your spells and then convince the other team that you aren't there (with a tactical withdrawal or repositioning).
+1
AegisFear My DanceOvershot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered Userregular
edited January 2015
Sprint on Uther is pretty good. Not only does it give you an escape, it gives you a fantastic engagement tool that he otherwise lacks if the enemy team just won't stop running away. It arguably functions better for the engagement aspect since Uther's survivability is otherwise pretty fine, normally.
I don't know that increased range would really fix her though. I get the feeling from the way she plays that Blizzard probably put a lot of thought and internal testing into her range. It just feels like if Cone of Cold extended any further, or if Blizzard (the spell) had a naturally longer cast range, Jaina would be completely and utterly OP.
Of course, I say probably because there's also the chance that they barely tested her at all and put no thought into her range values, and just said "fuck it, we'll tune her after the public tells us what to do."
Lucascraft on
0
ObiFettUse the ForceAs You WishRegistered Userregular
edited January 2015
So two of the more recent conversations (Arcane Intellect and Sprint) make me wonder if there is something I am missing. I though each hero had their own set of unique talents to choose from on leveling up.
Is there overlap in talents or is there a player ability choice (like LoL) that for some reason I am missing?
I saw this little flow chart on reddit that might help some new people.
The only thing I would consider adding is a caveat that you should always be laning in the first minutes of any game before the main map objective becomes active.
Yeah, without exception you should never pursue a level 1 teamfight over a watchtower (or even worse, just empty ground). It is universally a waste of time with virtually no meaningful gain even if you win, and it risks weakening you for the first objective.
Zek on
+2
AegisFear My DanceOvershot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered Userregular
Oh hey Garden Terror map. I, too, like whacking heroes with the still-unrealized autoattack damage (that scales upward with no cap, based on the duration of the game) of the Terror. Let's see what my opponent's team is:
Jaina
Nova
Zeratul
Falstad
Oh. Oh boy!
It was like playing Whack-a-mole. Every hit removed half of an enemy's health bar.
Nah, Dragon Knight is low-medium autoattack damage with a +% buff to basic attack damage to buildings. If you're meleeing heroes as the Dragon Knight you're more than likely going to get yelled at.
Oh hey Garden Terror map. I, too, like whacking heroes with the still-unrealized autoattack damage (that scales upward with no cap, based on the duration of the game) of the Terror. Let's see what my opponent's team is:
Jaina
Nova
Zeratul
Falstad
Oh. Oh boy!
It was like playing Whack-a-mole. Every hit removed half of an enemy's health bar.
Yeah Dragon Knight is mainly just for attacking buildings, while Garden Terror is really good at PvP, and can do a big chunk of structure damage passively just by dropping his plant. In both cases you should wait for backup from your team and try to drag out the timer - getting killed when you still have over a minute left is a waste.
I've been spending the night running through coop games to get characters out of talent gates and holy Hell is lili fun
0
FiggyFighter of the night manChampion of the sunRegistered Userregular
Everyone keeps telling me that Raynor sucks, but I like him. I just need to get better at estimating when my Q is actually going to finish someone off, rather than knocking them further away from my team.
Raynor doesn't suck, he's just really really boring to play
Yeah. One simple skill + attack speed boost + conditional passive + ult requires a real buy in on the fiction to be good design, IMHO. I love Warwick, who has a similar skillset design, but it's only because I like werewolves and his design. Raynor is pretty cool for SC fans, but not that cool, so...
Raynor doesn't suck, he's just really really boring to play
Yeah. One simple skill + attack speed boost + conditional passive + ult requires a real buy in on the fiction to be good design, IMHO. I love Warwick, who has a similar skillset design, but it's only because I like werewolves and his design. Raynor is pretty cool for SC fans, but not that cool, so...
He's odd in that some talents can really change his skills. His W can be talented to boost his movement so he can chase and escape and/or made to slow down enemies in an area around him and be ridiculously powerful if you take Executioner and Searing Attacks. Usually talents will give an ability some better siege/pushing or minor buff effects, not turn a buff into a murder machine.
So I know Diablo is terrible but it's hard to deny how fun it is to run around like it's Summerslam 2014 and German Suplex the ever loving shit out of people over and over and over.
So I know Diablo is terrible but it's hard to deny how fun it is to run around like it's Summerslam 2014 and German Suplex the ever loving shit out of people over and over and over.
Diablo is almost awesome. Myself and a couple other PAers were discussing, and Diablo could have a really solid kit with some minor adjustments. Tighten up his animations a bit (with a mind to making his Q -> E combo more consistent), buff his damage a bit, and make his ults less bad, and he would be good to go.
Posts
It occurs to me that I've never noticed this because the only melee I every play are Stitches and Kerrrigan, both of whom you don't escape from.
Steam Profile
3DS: 3454-0268-5595 Battle.net: SteelAngel#1772
It seems to be all over the place too, ranging from 1 (Abathur, Muradin, Uther), 1.2 (Diablo, Illidan, Murky), 1.5 (Anubarak, ETC, Rehgar, Sonya, Stitches, Tyrael, Zeratul), to 2 (Arthas, Chen, Kerrigan).
Currently DMing: None
Characters
[5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
WoWtcg and general gaming podcast
WoWtcg and gaming website
Currently DMing: None
Characters
[5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
It's reallllly good on healers specifically. Li Li and Malfurion are two heroes that I know it's amazing on, dunno about anyone else.
She does tons of damage. She's just super squishy, and has no escapes / active defenses (unless talented), etc.
Really, I think both Jaina and Nova need to have a little damage trimmed for broader utility. Their ideal case burst damage is dumb, but they can run into issues (albeit Nova has invisibility which is huge) due to being made of paper. I don't want every character to be too similar, but the outliers are a bit too outlying right now.
or 35% slow for 4 seconds
or 25% slow for 6 seconds
Streaming 8PST on weeknights
Well, Malfurion has to take it because his other level 1 talents are absolute garbage.
Currently DMing: None
Characters
[5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
Well, I guess using utility less technically. Extending her Cone of Cold range, not in an effort to make her damage more reliable (though it would do that too), but in an effort to increase safety.
The real irony is that Frost has always been the safest Mage PVP spec* due to the fact you're rooted 50% of the time and slowed 100% of the time, and iceblock iceblock iceblock iceblock.
* You might argue 2 minute mages, but those kids were scrubs who sucked at video games and hopefully moderately bad things happen to them, like every food order for the rest of their life is slightly wrong.
Currently DMing: None
Characters
[5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
Currently DMing: None
Characters
[5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
I get the practical utility of it, but I'd much rather have a larger range on her stuff
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
Of course, I say probably because there's also the chance that they barely tested her at all and put no thought into her range values, and just said "fuck it, we'll tune her after the public tells us what to do."
Is there overlap in talents or is there a player ability choice (like LoL) that for some reason I am missing?
Xbox Live / Steam
3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
Steam profile
The only thing I would consider adding is a caveat that you should always be laning in the first minutes of any game before the main map objective becomes active.
Discord: Dudeman#9279 - Battle.net: Dudeman#1385
Twitch: CrashTestJonny - XBox: CrshTstJonny
Nintendo Switch: SW-4469-1892-0302
Jaina
Nova
Zeratul
Falstad
Oh. Oh boy!
It was like playing Whack-a-mole. Every hit removed half of an enemy's health bar.
Currently DMing: None
Characters
[5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
She is maximum rude.
Nah, Dragon Knight is low-medium autoattack damage with a +% buff to basic attack damage to buildings. If you're meleeing heroes as the Dragon Knight you're more than likely going to get yelled at.
Hopped in the terror at minute 45.
I was punching things for 1700 damage.
yeah you would think a military outfit like the terrans would give someone better manners
-24 hours remain-
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
Streaming 8PST on weeknights
Yeah. One simple skill + attack speed boost + conditional passive + ult requires a real buy in on the fiction to be good design, IMHO. I love Warwick, who has a similar skillset design, but it's only because I like werewolves and his design. Raynor is pretty cool for SC fans, but not that cool, so...
He's odd in that some talents can really change his skills. His W can be talented to boost his movement so he can chase and escape and/or made to slow down enemies in an area around him and be ridiculously powerful if you take Executioner and Searing Attacks. Usually talents will give an ability some better siege/pushing or minor buff effects, not turn a buff into a murder machine.
Steam Profile
3DS: 3454-0268-5595 Battle.net: SteelAngel#1772
Diablo is almost awesome. Myself and a couple other PAers were discussing, and Diablo could have a really solid kit with some minor adjustments. Tighten up his animations a bit (with a mind to making his Q -> E combo more consistent), buff his damage a bit, and make his ults less bad, and he would be good to go.