By 13 you will know if you need to be a strong presence in teamfights (and thus take march of sin) or if you need to be a fat, splitpushing asshole (and thus take blazing demons).
If you take blazing demons, ABSOLUTELY take Battleborn.
If the enemy has another Azmodan, Demonic Smite will let you counter him incredibly hard. It's also helpful for taking merc camps. If you're already getting help taking merc camps, or you took blazing demons, Battleborn.
Now, if the map doesn't have a golem camp, it's not awful to take Black Pool and just dunk on people. But your Golem Soloing is one of Azmo's most powerful tricks, so...
Didn't they change the mechanics of Demonic Invasion so that they have actual health now? One golem stomp will kill all of them, and I think they also changed the Golem to trigger his stomp when there's a certain number of minions nearby.
Actually yeah, just found it in the patch notes:
Demonic Invasion (R)
Demonic Grunts now have real Health, rather than Doubloon Chest-style Health.
Stomp
The post-cast delay on Stomp has been removed.
Stomp will now be cast when there are at least 2 Heroic units around the Grave Golem, or at least 3 Minions.
Stomp will not be cast unless the Grave Golem is already stationary.
Stomp now deals increased damage versus Minions.
So... can you still solo the Golem with Demonic Invasion? Can anyone confirm? I don't own Azmodan, so I don't know.
That might put Zagara back on top for specialists who are able to solo the golem. She can stagger the drops of her roachlings and hydras and control when the stomps happen.
I think people take the metagame best picks far too seriously in pub Hero League. The most important thing is that everyone picks a hero they're good at and you end up with a good balance of roles at the end (which is the advantage over Quick Match). Forcing someone to pick Stitches because they're first is stupid if they're not going to perform well as Stitches - you simply can't expect a random assortment of pub players to expertly play all the top tier characters.
This is true to an extent. I do think the meta game lends favorably to solo queues more so than premades.
I was in a premade that had Pudge, Nazeebo, Uther, Tassadar, and Tyrande. We were against Muradin, Gazlowe, Tychus, Valla, and Thrall. Despite their lack of support, I would have assumed (on paper) they greatly had the upper hand. But because we were a premade coordinating over voice chat, we trounced them.
I would not have expected the same outcome if I solo queued into that comp. Not at all.
You had the best warrior, the best specialist, the 2nd best healer support, a top tier character in tass, and tyrande who is decent. Vs a middle of the road warrior, one of the worst heroes in the game, two top tier assassins with nobody to initiate for them, and thrall who is going go get incredibly bodied against your comp.
Solo queue your team should have obliterated them just as well.
I think people take the metagame best picks far too seriously in pub Hero League. The most important thing is that everyone picks a hero they're good at and you end up with a good balance of roles at the end (which is the advantage over Quick Match). Forcing someone to pick Stitches because they're first is stupid if they're not going to perform well as Stitches - you simply can't expect a random assortment of pub players to expertly play all the top tier characters.
This is true to an extent. I do think the meta game lends favorably to solo queues more so than premades.
I was in a premade that had Pudge, Nazeebo, Uther, Tassadar, and Tyrande. We were against Muradin, Gazlowe, Tychus, Valla, and Thrall. Despite their lack of support, I would have assumed (on paper) they greatly had the upper hand. But because we were a premade coordinating over voice chat, we trounced them.
I would not have expected the same outcome if I solo queued into that comp. Not at all.
You had the best warrior, the best specialist, the 2nd best healer support, a top tier character in tass, and tyrande who is decent. Vs a middle of the road warrior, one of the worst heroes in the game, two top tier assassins with nobody to initiate for them, and thrall who is going go get incredibly bodied against your comp.
Solo queue your team should have obliterated them just as well.
I see your point, but I've been in SO many situations where we were down on damage output and lost as a result. The only thing that saved us was we all specced for maximum damage output and teamfight utility. Had the 3 supports all specced for pure support, I seriously doubt we would have one.
It was an experiment because we were debating the merits of running multiple supports. Specced properly and in a coordinated effort, it works really, really well.
As an aside, Muradin isn't middle of the road anymore. He is a solid first warrior pick now.
The issue isn't necessarily forcing the top guy to pick Stitches, as it is the problem that the last guy generally doesn't get who he wants, no matter what role it is.
The problem is that in solo queue, if you have a player who wants to play a tank, and he gets randomly assigned into position 5, he's pretty much SOL at all of the good picks. Not just one or two. By the time the game rotates to him, he's not going to be able to pick the hero he wants to play.
If JohnnyAwesome is the best Tyrael player in the whole world, and he gets position 5, his skill with Tyrael might as well not even exist, because the likelihood that Tyrael is still available by the time he gets to choose is practically nil.
If you really only want to play one role or character and one only, I would argue it might be best to stick to quick match. That's why Blizzard does it that way so people can always play whoever they want.
Coming into ranked with that mentality is going to bone you. I'm not saying if you want to play a warrior you HAVE to only play Pudge or Arthas, but you should be prepared to play any role.
I'm not even sure hero swapping would alleviate the issue. If you only want to play Tyrael, ever, what happens when one or two other people on your team want to play him, or only want to play warrior? You don't need three, and sometimes more than only one is overkill.
It's not about wanting to play only one role. It's about wanting to play your best role in ranked. This is a thing in MOBAs period.
Now I think everyone needs to have a couple of roles so if you do get stuck on one you're not totally out of your depth.
But swapping will absolutely take the sting out of both issues people are talking about here. Both the first pick being relegated to top tier only and bottom pick not getting the role he would prefer. Sure you're still gonna have those times where 3 guys want to play warrior. That's just how it goes. But the system as you guys are describing it, with no swapping, makes it where even nice folks who are willing to communicate get screwed by pick order. That's really gonna need to change and probably will.
@Undead Monkey Who is Pudge? I'm guessing a Stitches type character from another MOBA but i'm not sure. It makes it hard to follow your post sometimes if i'm not familiar with the game you're talking about.
The issue isn't necessarily forcing the top guy to pick Stitches, as it is the problem that the last guy generally doesn't get who he wants, no matter what role it is.
The problem is that in solo queue, if you have a player who wants to play a tank, and he gets randomly assigned into position 5, he's pretty much SOL at all of the good picks. Not just one or two. By the time the game rotates to him, he's not going to be able to pick the hero he wants to play.
If JohnnyAwesome is the best Tyrael player in the whole world, and he gets position 5, his skill with Tyrael might as well not even exist, because the likelihood that Tyrael is still available by the time he gets to choose is practically nil.
If you really only want to play one role or character and one only, I would argue it might be best to stick to quick match. That's why Blizzard does it that way so people can always play whoever they want.
Coming into ranked with that mentality is going to bone you. I'm not saying if you want to play a warrior you HAVE to only play Pudge or Arthas, but you should be prepared to play any role.
I'm not even sure hero swapping would alleviate the issue. If you only want to play Tyrael, ever, what happens when one or two other people on your team want to play him, or only want to play warrior? You don't need three, and sometimes more than only one is overkill.
It's not about wanting to play only one role. It's about wanting to play your best role in ranked. This is a thing in MOBAs period.
Now I think everyone needs to have a couple of roles so if you do get stuck on one you're not totally out of your depth.
But swapping will absolutely take the sting out of both issues people are talking about here. Both the first pick being relegated to top tier only and bottom pick not getting the role he would prefer. Sure you're still gonna have those times where 3 guys want to play warrior. That's just how it goes. But the system as you guys are describing it, with no swapping, makes it where even nice folks who are willing to communicate get screwed by pick order. That's really gonna need to change and probably will.
Well, that's why I gave the example I did. Yes, swapping will lend to better circumstances overall, but it certainly won't fix every situation. I was just making an argument that people solo queuing with the staunch mindset that they are only wanting to play one hero or one role is just... not good.
@Undead Monkey Who is Pudge? I'm guessing a Stitches type character from another MOBA but i'm not sure. It makes it hard to follow your post sometimes if i'm not familiar with the game you're talking about.
I apologize. Yeah, Sitches is very much like Pudge from DotA and Dota 2. I just like to say Pudge because it is the cooler name, IMO.
I'll stick with proper HotS names when making recommendations from now on.
"Undead Monkey" Who is Pudge? I'm guessing a Stitches type character from another MOBA but i'm not sure. It makes it hard to follow your post sometimes if i'm not familiar with the game you're talking about.
Pudge is from DotA. Presumably Stitches was a character back in the original DotA made from Warcraft III, then DotA renamed him to Pudge to avoid copyright stuff, and now Blizzard has brought Stitches back. They're basically the same character (both revolving around hook into ult disable).
"Undead Monkey" Who is Pudge? I'm guessing a Stitches type character from another MOBA but i'm not sure. It makes it hard to follow your post sometimes if i'm not familiar with the game you're talking about.
Pudge is from DotA. Presumably Stitches was a character back in the original DotA made from Warcraft III, then DotA renamed him to Pudge to avoid copyright stuff, and now Blizzard has brought Stitches back. They're basically the same character (both revolving around hook into ult disable).
Stitches is the enemy from WoW who most closely resembles the abomination unit from WC3, and is thus kind of an iconic undead person/monster/thing.
Generalísimo de Fuerzas Armadas de la República Argentina
"Undead Monkey" Who is Pudge? I'm guessing a Stitches type character from another MOBA but i'm not sure. It makes it hard to follow your post sometimes if i'm not familiar with the game you're talking about.
I apologize. Yeah, Sitches is very much like Pudge from DotA and Dota 2. I just like to say Pudge because it is the cooler name, IMO.
I'll stick with proper HotS names when making recommendations from now on.
DOTA would have been my guess but i've never played it. I agree that it is a cooler name though.
Yeah, Pudge is the name of the Abomination character in DotA. And since DotA Abominations are Warcraft Abominations, it's easy to call him by the wrong name since he's essentially the same guy. I've done it myself. Easy mistake to make.
By 13 you will know if you need to be a strong presence in teamfights (and thus take march of sin) or if you need to be a fat, splitpushing asshole (and thus take blazing demons).
If you take blazing demons, ABSOLUTELY take Battleborn.
If the enemy has another Azmodan, Demonic Smite will let you counter him incredibly hard. It's also helpful for taking merc camps. If you're already getting help taking merc camps, or you took blazing demons, Battleborn.
Now, if the map doesn't have a golem camp, it's not awful to take Black Pool and just dunk on people. But your Golem Soloing is one of Azmo's most powerful tricks, so...
Didn't they change the mechanics of Demonic Invasion so that they have actual health now? One golem stomp will kill all of them, and I think they also changed the Golem to trigger his stomp when there's a certain number of minions nearby.
Actually yeah, just found it in the patch notes:
Demonic Invasion (R)
Demonic Grunts now have real Health, rather than Doubloon Chest-style Health.
Stomp
The post-cast delay on Stomp has been removed.
Stomp will now be cast when there are at least 2 Heroic units around the Grave Golem, or at least 3 Minions.
Stomp will not be cast unless the Grave Golem is already stationary.
Stomp now deals increased damage versus Minions.
So... can you still solo the Golem with Demonic Invasion? Can anyone confirm? I don't own Azmodan, so I don't know.
I know I've done it since then, don't remember if the ground stomp one-shots them or not. But they do a considerable amount of damage before he uses it anyway, so with that plus the anti-minion Laser it's doable.
"Undead Monkey" Who is Pudge? I'm guessing a Stitches type character from another MOBA but i'm not sure. It makes it hard to follow your post sometimes if i'm not familiar with the game you're talking about.
Pudge is from DotA. Presumably Stitches was a character back in the original DotA made from Warcraft III, then DotA renamed him to Pudge to avoid copyright stuff, and now Blizzard has brought Stitches back. They're basically the same character (both revolving around hook into ult disable).
Stitches is the enemy from WoW who most closely resembles the abomination unit from WC3, and is thus kind of an iconic undead person/monster/thing.
"Undead Monkey" Who is Pudge? I'm guessing a Stitches type character from another MOBA but i'm not sure. It makes it hard to follow your post sometimes if i'm not familiar with the game you're talking about.
Pudge is from DotA. Presumably Stitches was a character back in the original DotA made from Warcraft III, then DotA renamed him to Pudge to avoid copyright stuff, and now Blizzard has brought Stitches back. They're basically the same character (both revolving around hook into ult disable).
Stitches is the enemy from WoW who most closely resembles the abomination unit from WC3, and is thus kind of an iconic undead person/monster/thing.
that's not how you spell Patchwerk
I stand by my claim.
Generalísimo de Fuerzas Armadas de la República Argentina
What are your guys thoughts on nazeebo? I wrecked with him last night, and I'm not sure how. Went like 5-1 with him I think. Usually had over 120 stacks on his passive, really focusing on farming that. Many games I ended with 100,000 siege damage, one was the pirate map and I have no clue exactly how. He seems really solid, and is pretty fun to play.
I think people take the metagame best picks far too seriously in pub Hero League. The most important thing is that everyone picks a hero they're good at and you end up with a good balance of roles at the end (which is the advantage over Quick Match). Forcing someone to pick Stitches because they're first is stupid if they're not going to perform well as Stitches - you simply can't expect a random assortment of pub players to expertly play all the top tier characters.
Yeah but you can't rationalize with those kinds of people. Ranked play brings out all kinds of assholes because they attach their rating to their self worth.
whenever someone on my team asks what everyone's rank is it just sounds like the most loaded question.
If it's a low rank, I'd imagine they'd be mad for being matched with someone so low. If it's high, they'd be incredulous someone could get that high and be so bad.
"Undead Monkey" Who is Pudge? I'm guessing a Stitches type character from another MOBA but i'm not sure. It makes it hard to follow your post sometimes if i'm not familiar with the game you're talking about.
Pudge is from DotA. Presumably Stitches was a character back in the original DotA made from Warcraft III, then DotA renamed him to Pudge to avoid copyright stuff, and now Blizzard has brought Stitches back. They're basically the same character (both revolving around hook into ult disable).
Stitches is the enemy from WoW who most closely resembles the abomination unit from WC3, and is thus kind of an iconic undead person/monster/thing.
The best part of Stitches, is he was spawned from a quest completion. But if you didn't actually read the quest text, like most people never did, he was just this nigh unstoppable force that randomly appeared and murdered it's way to Darkshire. Also, due to the fun way WoW mobs leashed, he could be kited to other lowbie zones, where due to the way level differences worked, he would cleave down the quest giver NPC's and guards, until some high level player guy came by to deal with him.
Ya, patchwerk's mechanic was all hateful strikes all the time though. Not that stitches did anything of note except be level 30 in a level 20 zone, but it'd be weird to have a hero named patchwerk without hateful strike.
I'm okay with Azmo-dunks all day long. But Azmo week also tends to be pretty painful. Tons of tunnel vision players who think they are god's gift to siege and ignore objectives, team fights, and everything else other than their lane.
I'm okay with Azmo-dunks all day long. But Azmo week also tends to be pretty painful. Tons of tunnel vision players who think they are god's gift to siege and ignore objectives, team fights, and everything else other than their lane.
And every pubbie free week specialist player. Ever.
I'm okay with Azmo-dunks all day long. But Azmo week also tends to be pretty painful. Tons of tunnel vision players who think they are god's gift to siege and ignore objectives, team fights, and everything else other than their lane.
And every pubbie free week specialist player. Ever.
But it's so fun vaulting over their minion wave, destroying them with auto attacks, and then ulting them when they try to lazer you and laughing as they die and you are almost full health.
Is hammer considered top-tier or pro-level viable?
I'm liking her more and more because she doesn't require full-on micro but I'm not sure how viable she is due to her immobility.
I'm also starting to think that for team fights the cannon is better than napalm because it just bursts so well rather than the long, and very dodgeable dps. As in, there's a reason Faltstad's lazer beam ult is commonly used. That burst is what can win fights with healers as they may not heal fast enough.
The napalm is waaaay better for sieging but I just don't seem to get the umph in team fights, which usually don't last very long.
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
0
Warlock82Never pet a burning dogRegistered Userregular
edited February 2015
So this week's rotation includes the three founder's pack heroes? That's kind of a dick move
Meanwhile I still have this specialist daily with no free specialist heroes (still a few levels away from being able to try azmodan). You really should be able to delete dailies ala Hearthstone.
God can I play one sodding game as support that isn't a write off from the start? Trying to learn Tyrande, my team is Murky, Azmodan, Diablo and Nova.
Just fuck it, I'm never picking any support again ever. Apparently the matchmaking algorithm is literally incapable of sorting out even a half-decent composition whenever I choose a support.
Steam / Xbox Live: WSDX NNID: W-S-D-X 3DS FC: 2637-9461-8549
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Didn't they change the mechanics of Demonic Invasion so that they have actual health now? One golem stomp will kill all of them, and I think they also changed the Golem to trigger his stomp when there's a certain number of minions nearby.
Actually yeah, just found it in the patch notes:
So... can you still solo the Golem with Demonic Invasion? Can anyone confirm? I don't own Azmodan, so I don't know.
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
You had the best warrior, the best specialist, the 2nd best healer support, a top tier character in tass, and tyrande who is decent. Vs a middle of the road warrior, one of the worst heroes in the game, two top tier assassins with nobody to initiate for them, and thrall who is going go get incredibly bodied against your comp.
Solo queue your team should have obliterated them just as well.
I see your point, but I've been in SO many situations where we were down on damage output and lost as a result. The only thing that saved us was we all specced for maximum damage output and teamfight utility. Had the 3 supports all specced for pure support, I seriously doubt we would have one.
It was an experiment because we were debating the merits of running multiple supports. Specced properly and in a coordinated effort, it works really, really well.
As an aside, Muradin isn't middle of the road anymore. He is a solid first warrior pick now.
XBL: InvaderJims
Bnet: Pudgestomp#11153
It's not about wanting to play only one role. It's about wanting to play your best role in ranked. This is a thing in MOBAs period.
Now I think everyone needs to have a couple of roles so if you do get stuck on one you're not totally out of your depth.
But swapping will absolutely take the sting out of both issues people are talking about here. Both the first pick being relegated to top tier only and bottom pick not getting the role he would prefer. Sure you're still gonna have those times where 3 guys want to play warrior. That's just how it goes. But the system as you guys are describing it, with no swapping, makes it where even nice folks who are willing to communicate get screwed by pick order. That's really gonna need to change and probably will.
Well, that's why I gave the example I did. Yes, swapping will lend to better circumstances overall, but it certainly won't fix every situation. I was just making an argument that people solo queuing with the staunch mindset that they are only wanting to play one hero or one role is just... not good.
XBL: InvaderJims
Bnet: Pudgestomp#11153
I apologize. Yeah, Sitches is very much like Pudge from DotA and Dota 2. I just like to say Pudge because it is the cooler name, IMO.
I'll stick with proper HotS names when making recommendations from now on.
XBL: InvaderJims
Bnet: Pudgestomp#11153
Pudge is from DotA. Presumably Stitches was a character back in the original DotA made from Warcraft III, then DotA renamed him to Pudge to avoid copyright stuff, and now Blizzard has brought Stitches back. They're basically the same character (both revolving around hook into ult disable).
This.
This so haaaaaaard.
:snap:
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
Stitches is the enemy from WoW who most closely resembles the abomination unit from WC3, and is thus kind of an iconic undead person/monster/thing.
I know I've done it since then, don't remember if the ground stomp one-shots them or not. But they do a considerable amount of damage before he uses it anyway, so with that plus the anti-minion Laser it's doable.
that's not how you spell Patchwerk
I stand by my claim.
Hook and all.
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
Stitches is the Bane of Darkshire, which is his lore title in HotS. He patrols around in Duskwood and murders unsuspecting lowbies.
There are a bunch of named abominations.
His W is hard to hit though.
whenever someone on my team asks what everyone's rank is it just sounds like the most loaded question.
If it's a low rank, I'd imagine they'd be mad for being matched with someone so low. If it's high, they'd be incredulous someone could get that high and be so bad.
Aaaahhhh cool. I didn't know there were many.
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
I think a couple years ago they released stats on what monsters had killed the most players in WoW and Stitches was number 1.
THEY USE THE SAME MODEL
Streaming 8PST on weeknights
And every pubbie free week specialist player. Ever.
XBL: InvaderJims
Bnet: Pudgestomp#11153
But it's so fun vaulting over their minion wave, destroying them with auto attacks, and then ulting them when they try to lazer you and laughing as they die and you are almost full health.
I think they have plans to add the Butcher. Close enough.
Streaming 8PST on weeknights
actually it was the Defias Pillager in Westfall, a generic mob
who come in packs of 2
with fireballs that do a lot of damage
I'm liking her more and more because she doesn't require full-on micro but I'm not sure how viable she is due to her immobility.
I'm also starting to think that for team fights the cannon is better than napalm because it just bursts so well rather than the long, and very dodgeable dps. As in, there's a reason Faltstad's lazer beam ult is commonly used. That burst is what can win fights with healers as they may not heal fast enough.
The napalm is waaaay better for sieging but I just don't seem to get the umph in team fights, which usually don't last very long.
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
Meanwhile I still have this specialist daily with no free specialist heroes (still a few levels away from being able to try azmodan). You really should be able to delete dailies ala Hearthstone.
Just fuck it, I'm never picking any support again ever. Apparently the matchmaking algorithm is literally incapable of sorting out even a half-decent composition whenever I choose a support.
That's what I get for trusting my terrible memory.