ObiFettUse the ForceAs You WishRegistered Userregular
edited January 2015
Video showing the UnderBoomer Crota strat. If you've got a Bubblebro in your fireteam, according to the masses, this is the easiest and least dangerous way to beat HM Crota. I've used the bottom rooms for killing Ogres, but never done the whole raid from it like these guys do, so I personally don't know how effective it is.
Video showing the UnderBoomer Crota strat. If you've got a Bubblebro in your fireteam, according to the masses, this is the easiest and least dangerous way to beat HM Crota. I've used the bottom rooms for killing Ogres, but never done the whole raid from it like these guys do, so I personally don't know how effective it is.
I'm amused by the thought process that is developing regarding the HM Crota endfight. Seems that when it first came out, people were all focused on "Must be a Hunter to wield sword" and "Keep as far away from Crota as possible", holding a static position and basically tentatively taking on the adds.
That video above shows, to me, a team that basically decided "We are taking the fight to THEM!"
I guess since you can take on Crota in variety of ways, maybe the encounter isn't as narrow as people assumed. Makes me wonder if Bungie saw that they had crafted a "One True Way" of defeating Atheon and wanted to get away from that.
Team Fourth Meal took it to Crota. Some real bad luck early on made us fall just short, and not having a single titan in the group limited our strategies. The team cracked the code with three tweaks to the top-middle strategy:
1) On ogres, go under boomers. When it spawns, gjallarhorn/sniper stunlock it to death.
2) On positioning, having at least one Gjallarhorn on the pillars instead of all the way back really helps with hiding swordbearers
3) Lots and lots of whiskey
Thanks for the run @ObiFett@Vagabond@eMoander@Baske and the Pennyless Bal. Really happy with my helmet, and I guess an alt can use the extra Gjallarhorn. Saw lots of fang and word drop so the team should be well-prepared for upcoming nightfalls
I'm amused by the thought process that is developing regarding the HM Crota endfight. Seems that when it first came out, people were all focused on "Must be a Hunter to wield sword" and "Keep as far away from Crota as possible", holding a static position and basically tentatively taking on the adds.
That video above shows, to me, a team that basically decided "We are taking the fight to THEM!"
I guess since you can take on Crota in variety of ways, maybe the encounter isn't as narrow as people assumed. Makes me wonder if Bungie saw that they had crafted a "One True Way" of defeating Atheon and wanted to get away from that.
I agree. I still feel like these encounters have a few too many insta-kills. I'm glad HM Crota didn't ramp up the damage and instead ramped down the healing, which allows people to recover and encourages different specs/itemization. Still, my favorite part of any raid is the abyss maze since it's entirely possible to regroup and recover or even march on and leave the dead behind. Then you have the "oh-shit" and panic moment right as the bridge builds and the hero moment running across and into the light. It's a good culmination of that section of the raid.
If you're going to have a glitchy, laggy fight in a timing-based encounter, adding in tons of insta-kills is a recipe for player frustration. Bungie did much much better with the pre-Crota part of Crota than everything in VoG IMO. The Crota fight has a bit too much waiting and insta-wiping. So I'm hopeful HoW continues the raid mechanic improvements.
Trojan35 on
+1
ObiFettUse the ForceAs You WishRegistered Userregular
Addendum to #2 on that list.
Snipe the Swordbearer. Don't shoot him with primaries. Sniping will stunlock him and make it harder for him to dance around behind rocks.
Team Fourth Meal took it to Crota. Some real bad luck early on made us fall just short, and not having a single titan in the group limited our strategies. The team cracked the code with three tweaks to the top-middle strategy:
1) On ogres, go under boomers. When it spawns, gjallarhorn/sniper stunlock it to death.
2) On positioning, having at least one Gjallarhorn on the pillars instead of all the way back really helps with hiding swordbearers
3) Lots and lots of whiskey
The way my LFG group ran it was to have the sword carrier go down and draw out the Swordbearer if he got himself somewhere hard to hit. Sniper Rifles are good for stunblocking though, and if you can get at him early enough then you should be fine.
Also:
• Instead of sending a Defender up to bubble the boomers on the right hand side, we actually waited until the sword carrier was going up to Crota then send the Defender to the right podium where Crota eventually stands, draw the boomer aggro and pop the bubble. That way they don't have to worry about coming back to the middle through a tide of thrall.
When Crota switches to right hand side, everyone hides in the window as usual, except the sword carrier who goes inside and deals with any thralls that try to sneak up and attack through the window.
• The other major difference was that after the Ogres were dealt with, we go inside and wait for Crota to go right and then back to middle again. That cuts out the timing issues where you down the sword bearer and Crota runs to the right, wasting the Sword. When you do this though, make sure all 6 fireteam members stay in the middle until Crota comes to the right, quite often this makes the Sword bearer walk down the steps to underneath middle making him easy to kill for your final sword run. Once Crota is at the right, we left someone in the middle to call out when he's going back, while the other 5 waited by the doors on the left hand side to run out.
Using that strategy we did it in less than 10 attempts at least. It relies on a sword carrier that can call out pretty decisively, they more or less run the show.
Muffinatron on
PSN: Holy-Promethium
0
ShadowfireVermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered Userregular
@Cilla Black I might be up for it in a little over an hour. I'm leaving work shortly and driving in this shitty weather so it might take me a little longer than an hour. 30 miles, we'll see.
Video showing the UnderBoomer Crota strat. If you've got a Bubblebro in your fireteam, according to the masses, this is the easiest and least dangerous way to beat HM Crota. I've used the bottom rooms for killing Ogres, but never done the whole raid from it like these guys do, so I personally don't know how effective it is.
This is the strategy the team I was on with LFG last night used.
It worked quite well. There were a couple of hiccups sometimes if boomers got a decent shot in during area transitions, but it felt so much better than the center strategy. And also made shield-bros the most valuable, which was a nice thing for a shield-bro.
Sword guy must be on point to help emphasize timing for rockets and such, and people need to mind thralls even when in the bubbles. But all things considered, as mentioned above, it feels much more rewarding to take the fight to Crota, as well as be more consistent than other options.
I recommend it if you have 3 defenders and lots of rockets.
0
ObiFettUse the ForceAs You WishRegistered Userregular
Team Fourth Meal took it to Crota. Some real bad luck early on made us fall just short, and not having a single titan in the group limited our strategies. The team cracked the code with three tweaks to the top-middle strategy:
1) On ogres, go under boomers. When it spawns, gjallarhorn/sniper stunlock it to death.
2) On positioning, having at least one Gjallarhorn on the pillars instead of all the way back really helps with hiding swordbearers
3) Lots and lots of whiskey
The way my LFG group ran it was to have the sword carrier go down and draw out the Swordbearer if he got himself somewhere hard to hit. Sniper Rifles are good for stunblocking though, and if you can get at him early enough then you should be fine.
Also:
• Instead of sending a Defender up to bubble the boomers on the right hand side, we actually waited until the sword carrier was going up to Crota then send the Defender to the right podium where Crota eventually stands, draw the boomer aggro and pop the bubble. That way they don't have to worry about coming back to the middle through a tide of thrall.
When Crota switches to right hand side, everyone hides in the window as usual, except the sword carrier who goes inside and deals with any thralls that try to sneak up and attack through the window.
• The other major difference was that after the Ogres were dealt with, we go inside and wait for Crota to go right and then back to middle again. That cuts out the timing issues where you down the sword bearer and Crota runs to the right, wasting the Sword. When you do this though, make sure all 6 fireteam members stay in the middle until Crota comes to the right, quite often this makes the Sword bearer walk down the steps to underneath middle making him easy to kill for your final sword run. Once Crota is at the right, we left someone in the middle to call out when he's going back, while the other 5 waited by the doors on the left hand side to run out.
Using that strategy we did it in less than 10 attempts at least. It relies on a sword carrier that can call out pretty decisively, they more or less run the show.
If the swordbearer never shoots anything on the ground, then the Boomers never aggro on him. So as long as the other 5 guys can down the swordbearer quickly, there is no reason to even worry about doing anything to the Boomers since they won't ever shoot the swordbearer anyway.
Team Fourth Meal took it to Crota. Some real bad luck early on made us fall just short, and not having a single titan in the group limited our strategies. The team cracked the code with three tweaks to the top-middle strategy:
1) On ogres, go under boomers. When it spawns, gjallarhorn/sniper stunlock it to death.
2) On positioning, having at least one Gjallarhorn on the pillars instead of all the way back really helps with hiding swordbearers
3) Lots and lots of whiskey
The way my LFG group ran it was to have the sword carrier go down and draw out the Swordbearer if he got himself somewhere hard to hit. Sniper Rifles are good for stunblocking though, and if you can get at him early enough then you should be fine.
Also:
• Instead of sending a Defender up to bubble the boomers on the right hand side, we actually waited until the sword carrier was going up to Crota then send the Defender to the right podium where Crota eventually stands, draw the boomer aggro and pop the bubble. That way they don't have to worry about coming back to the middle through a tide of thrall.
When Crota switches to right hand side, everyone hides in the window as usual, except the sword carrier who goes inside and deals with any thralls that try to sneak up and attack through the window.
• The other major difference was that after the Ogres were dealt with, we go inside and wait for Crota to go right and then back to middle again. That cuts out the timing issues where you down the sword bearer and Crota runs to the right, wasting the Sword. When you do this though, make sure all 6 fireteam members stay in the middle until Crota comes to the right, quite often this makes the Sword bearer walk down the steps to underneath middle making him easy to kill for your final sword run. Once Crota is at the right, we left someone in the middle to call out when he's going back, while the other 5 waited by the doors on the left hand side to run out.
Using that strategy we did it in less than 10 attempts at least. It relies on a sword carrier that can call out pretty decisively, they more or less run the show.
If the swordbearer never shoots anything on the ground, then the Boomers never aggro on him. So as long as the other 5 guys can down the swordbearer quickly, there is no reason to even worry about doing anything to the Boomers since they won't ever shoot the swordbearer anyway.
That doesn't sound similar to my experiences at all, Boomers have gone for the sword carrier as soon as he's up in Crota's business on the middle platform unless we distract them.
PSN: Holy-Promethium
0
MonkeyConQuesoNo more MH ClawHappy handsRegistered Userregular
edited January 2015
Congrats to @zllehs on his shiny new Ballerhorn! Hopefully that was your first, or maybe you needed a second, or maybe it's now a shard. Whichever, it's still nice to see someone get one!
E: Oh, and all I got was a Vanquisher VIII with Hip fire & Crowd Control, with Field Scout/Fitted Stock/Single Point Sling. Not bad, but Glass Half Full in place of Hip Fire would have been better. Still, I've been wanting one of those for a while now.
Obi, what about Boomer agro on our swordbearer guy when he's swiping at Crota? do the boomers still ignore him?
Boomers will still ignore
Its how we beat it last night. I was swordbearer and as long as I never shot/melee'd anything once I was outside of the crystal room, I was never once targeted by the boomers.
Team Fourth Meal took it to Crota. Some real bad luck early on made us fall just short, and not having a single titan in the group limited our strategies. The team cracked the code with three tweaks to the top-middle strategy:
1) On ogres, go under boomers. When it spawns, gjallarhorn/sniper stunlock it to death.
2) On positioning, having at least one Gjallarhorn on the pillars instead of all the way back really helps with hiding swordbearers
3) Lots and lots of whiskey
The way my LFG group ran it was to have the sword carrier go down and draw out the Swordbearer if he got himself somewhere hard to hit. Sniper Rifles are good for stunblocking though, and if you can get at him early enough then you should be fine.
Also:
• Instead of sending a Defender up to bubble the boomers on the right hand side, we actually waited until the sword carrier was going up to Crota then send the Defender to the right podium where Crota eventually stands, draw the boomer aggro and pop the bubble. That way they don't have to worry about coming back to the middle through a tide of thrall.
When Crota switches to right hand side, everyone hides in the window as usual, except the sword carrier who goes inside and deals with any thralls that try to sneak up and attack through the window.
• The other major difference was that after the Ogres were dealt with, we go inside and wait for Crota to go right and then back to middle again. That cuts out the timing issues where you down the sword bearer and Crota runs to the right, wasting the Sword. When you do this though, make sure all 6 fireteam members stay in the middle until Crota comes to the right, quite often this makes the Sword bearer walk down the steps to underneath middle making him easy to kill for your final sword run. Once Crota is at the right, we left someone in the middle to call out when he's going back, while the other 5 waited by the doors on the left hand side to run out.
Using that strategy we did it in less than 10 attempts at least. It relies on a sword carrier that can call out pretty decisively, they more or less run the show.
If the swordbearer never shoots anything on the ground, then the Boomers never aggro on him. So as long as the other 5 guys can down the swordbearer quickly, there is no reason to even worry about doing anything to the Boomers since they won't ever shoot the swordbearer anyway.
That doesn't sound similar to my experiences at all, Boomers have gone for the sword carrier as soon as he's up in Crota's business on the middle platform unless we distract them.
But did your sword carrier really never shoot anyone on the ground at all in between sword carrying? IE. No shooting thralls and no shooting the swordbearer.
MonkeyConQuesoNo more MH ClawHappy handsRegistered Userregular
I would say yes, Vorpal. Just a lot of patience, and probably them being revive buddies/attention fodder would help. The Nightfall would be properly insane though.
Do you think a 31 could shepherd two 26's through the weekly heroic at L30? I have icebreaker so the solar burn part will work out quite well.
Trying to get them coins for next time xur shows up.
You would probably be best just solo-ing it until the last encounter, getting her health way down, killing all the adds and then inviting them in. They are not gonna be able to contribute any meaningful damage 4 levels off. In fact, I think that's zero damage.
Do you think a 31 could shepherd two 26's through the weekly heroic at L30? I have icebreaker so the solar burn part will work out quite well.
Trying to get them coins for next time xur shows up.
You would probably be best just solo-ing it until the last encounter, getting her health way down, killing all the adds and then inviting them in. They are not gonna be able to contribute any meaningful damage 4 levels off. In fact, I think that's zero damage.
IF the game allows them to join a lvl30 Weekly Heroic, I would keep them along for the whole ride.
If they are a warlock, make em be Sunsingers so they can self-revive and keep the strike going by reviving you. Hunter? Bladedancer so they can go invis and rez you if you die. Titan? Defender for those sweet sweet bubbles.
Congrats to @zllehs on his shiny new Ballerhorn! Hopefully that was your first, or maybe you needed a second, or maybe it's now a shard. Whichever, it's still nice to see someone get one!
E: Oh, and all I got was a Vanquisher VIII with Hip fire & Crowd Control, with Field Scout/Fitted Stock/Single Point Sling. Not bad, but Glass Half Full in place of Hip Fire would have been better. Still, I've been wanting one of those for a while now.
MY LITTLE GOOD LUCK CHARM @MonkeyConQueso got me my first BALLERHORN in the nightfall
(Sorry about the mic. I was on the phone.)
zllehs on
+4
VoranthMI NOMBRE, POR CIERTOES DONTÉ!Registered Userregular
I'm down for any nightfalls or weeklys going on right now, Voranth on PS4.
The multiple ways to tackle Crota actually make me really appreciate the raid more. I'm one of the few who seem to enjoy CE more than VoG. Maybe it's because I haven't done VoG as recently, but I feel like I've seen and explored more strategies for Crota than Atheon, and feel like it has less filler in the encounters. Sure, VoG has more, but sometimes it doesn't feel as nice.
Compared to lamps which is pure intensity, the bridge which combines solo and team play well, and Crota which I've gone through maybe four different valid strategies now...
I guess my point is that Bungie needs to just make more and more raids, or make Strikes more mini-Raids.
0
awsimoa perfectly cromulent human; definitely not a robotRegistered Userregular
Wow, Solar Burn AND Void Burn for Nightfall this week? Looks like I'll be spending some time with Aetheon's Epilogue + Icebreaker + Hunger of Crota.
The multiple ways to tackle Crota actually make me really appreciate the raid more. I'm one of the few who seem to enjoy CE more than VoG. Maybe it's because I haven't done VoG as recently, but I feel like I've seen and explored more strategies for Crota than Atheon, and feel like it has less filler in the encounters. Sure, VoG has more, but sometimes it doesn't feel as nice.
Compared to lamps which is pure intensity, the bridge which combines solo and team play well, and Crota which I've gone through maybe four different valid strategies now...
I guess my point is that Bungie needs to just make more and more raids, or make Strikes more mini-Raids.
I think people get really soured by bugginess and the tightness of Crota. Which was the same with Atheon. Which will like be the same for the Mega-Shank or whatever we fight next.
Hell, if they fixed the heavy ammo bug I would be much more kind to any raid design, too.
I still think VoG is the better raid (you should never just go through a light at the end of a tunnel and magically appear in a new place), but the abyss and the bridge of Crota are both a lot of fun.
The multiple ways to tackle Crota actually make me really appreciate the raid more. I'm one of the few who seem to enjoy CE more than VoG. Maybe it's because I haven't done VoG as recently, but I feel like I've seen and explored more strategies for Crota than Atheon, and feel like it has less filler in the encounters. Sure, VoG has more, but sometimes it doesn't feel as nice.
Compared to lamps which is pure intensity, the bridge which combines solo and team play well, and Crota which I've gone through maybe four different valid strategies now...
I guess my point is that Bungie needs to just make more and more raids, or make Strikes more mini-Raids.
I think people get really soured by bugginess and the tightness of Crota. Which was the same with Atheon. Which will like be the same for the Mega-Shank or whatever we fight next.
Hell, if they fixed the heavy ammo bug I would be much more kind to any raid design, too.
I still think VoG is the better raid (you should never just go through a light at the end of a tunnel and magically appear in a new place), but the abyss and the bridge of Crota are both a lot of fun.
Yeah, when the sword fails to drop 4 times in a row or Crota's shield instantly regenerates even though there is continuous damage being applied, it really makes it so that we're just wasting our time. Also the no room for error is a bit tight as well.
Posts
channel that anger into some hate-reps. use the dark side. it will make you strong.
with three burns I wonder what the best primary to use is
Xbox Live / Steam
I'm thinking Solar or Arc to burn through the shields of the Wizards or the Fallen+Omnigul.
Since I have no Arc primary, Visions of Confluence it is! Again.
Pair that with Icebreaker and my Arc based Radegast's Fury or The Swarm and I think I'll be good.
That's for the Nightfall at least. Probably run Sunsinger, Defender, and...hmm...not sure on my Hunter, but leaning towards Gunslinger.
I need to run the nightfall 3x today. As soon as I get back from the store (to replace my PS4 mic which my cat ate!) I'm going to get at it
That does look more effective than the center room plan the groups I ran with used all week.
Battle.net: morgancoke#1589
Titan's Creed: Jump first, don't ask questions, punch everything
That video above shows, to me, a team that basically decided "We are taking the fight to THEM!"
I guess since you can take on Crota in variety of ways, maybe the encounter isn't as narrow as people assumed. Makes me wonder if Bungie saw that they had crafted a "One True Way" of defeating Atheon and wanted to get away from that.
1) On ogres, go under boomers. When it spawns, gjallarhorn/sniper stunlock it to death.
2) On positioning, having at least one Gjallarhorn on the pillars instead of all the way back really helps with hiding swordbearers
3) Lots and lots of whiskey
Thanks for the run @ObiFett @Vagabond @eMoander @Baske and the Pennyless Bal. Really happy with my helmet, and I guess an alt can use the extra Gjallarhorn. Saw lots of fang and word drop so the team should be well-prepared for upcoming nightfalls
I agree. I still feel like these encounters have a few too many insta-kills. I'm glad HM Crota didn't ramp up the damage and instead ramped down the healing, which allows people to recover and encourages different specs/itemization. Still, my favorite part of any raid is the abyss maze since it's entirely possible to regroup and recover or even march on and leave the dead behind. Then you have the "oh-shit" and panic moment right as the bridge builds and the hero moment running across and into the light. It's a good culmination of that section of the raid.
If you're going to have a glitchy, laggy fight in a timing-based encounter, adding in tons of insta-kills is a recipe for player frustration. Bungie did much much better with the pre-Crota part of Crota than everything in VoG IMO. The Crota fight has a bit too much waiting and insta-wiping. So I'm hopeful HoW continues the raid mechanic improvements.
Snipe the Swordbearer. Don't shoot him with primaries. Sniping will stunlock him and make it harder for him to dance around behind rocks.
Xbox Live / Steam
Anyone feel like running it right now on PS4?
The way my LFG group ran it was to have the sword carrier go down and draw out the Swordbearer if he got himself somewhere hard to hit. Sniper Rifles are good for stunblocking though, and if you can get at him early enough then you should be fine.
Also:
• Instead of sending a Defender up to bubble the boomers on the right hand side, we actually waited until the sword carrier was going up to Crota then send the Defender to the right podium where Crota eventually stands, draw the boomer aggro and pop the bubble. That way they don't have to worry about coming back to the middle through a tide of thrall.
When Crota switches to right hand side, everyone hides in the window as usual, except the sword carrier who goes inside and deals with any thralls that try to sneak up and attack through the window.
• The other major difference was that after the Ogres were dealt with, we go inside and wait for Crota to go right and then back to middle again. That cuts out the timing issues where you down the sword bearer and Crota runs to the right, wasting the Sword. When you do this though, make sure all 6 fireteam members stay in the middle until Crota comes to the right, quite often this makes the Sword bearer walk down the steps to underneath middle making him easy to kill for your final sword run. Once Crota is at the right, we left someone in the middle to call out when he's going back, while the other 5 waited by the doors on the left hand side to run out.
Using that strategy we did it in less than 10 attempts at least. It relies on a sword carrier that can call out pretty decisively, they more or less run the show.
This is the strategy the team I was on with LFG last night used.
It worked quite well. There were a couple of hiccups sometimes if boomers got a decent shot in during area transitions, but it felt so much better than the center strategy. And also made shield-bros the most valuable, which was a nice thing for a shield-bro.
Sword guy must be on point to help emphasize timing for rockets and such, and people need to mind thralls even when in the bubbles. But all things considered, as mentioned above, it feels much more rewarding to take the fight to Crota, as well as be more consistent than other options.
I recommend it if you have 3 defenders and lots of rockets.
If the swordbearer never shoots anything on the ground, then the Boomers never aggro on him. So as long as the other 5 guys can down the swordbearer quickly, there is no reason to even worry about doing anything to the Boomers since they won't ever shoot the swordbearer anyway.
Xbox Live / Steam
I like to snipe the swordbearer too, but if he comes in the open I swap to a rocket to get him down quickly.
I'm really anxious to try this Underboomer strategy next time.
That doesn't sound similar to my experiences at all, Boomers have gone for the sword carrier as soon as he's up in Crota's business on the middle platform unless we distract them.
E: Oh, and all I got was a Vanquisher VIII with Hip fire & Crowd Control, with Field Scout/Fitted Stock/Single Point Sling. Not bad, but Glass Half Full in place of Hip Fire would have been better. Still, I've been wanting one of those for a while now.
Destiny! : Warlock - Titan - Hunter
Boomers will still ignore
Its how we beat it last night. I was swordbearer and as long as I never shot/melee'd anything once I was outside of the crystal room, I was never once targeted by the boomers.
Xbox Live / Steam
Oh yea i remember that... It was the fucking worst...
But did your sword carrier really never shoot anyone on the ground at all in between sword carrying? IE. No shooting thralls and no shooting the swordbearer.
Trying to get them coins for next time xur shows up.
PSN: Vorpallion Twitch: Vorpallion
You could definitely beat the Weekly with that group.
The real question is if the game will let the 26s run the Weekly Heroic at lvl30 difficulty.
Xbox Live / Steam
Destiny! : Warlock - Titan - Hunter
You would probably be best just solo-ing it until the last encounter, getting her health way down, killing all the adds and then inviting them in. They are not gonna be able to contribute any meaningful damage 4 levels off. In fact, I think that's zero damage.
Yeah, would think it's level 27 required. We couldn't take a level 29 into the lvl33 crota hard mode last week.
IF the game allows them to join a lvl30 Weekly Heroic, I would keep them along for the whole ride.
If they are a warlock, make em be Sunsingers so they can self-revive and keep the strike going by reviving you. Hunter? Bladedancer so they can go invis and rez you if you die. Titan? Defender for those sweet sweet bubbles.
Xbox Live / Steam
MY LITTLE GOOD LUCK CHARM @MonkeyConQueso got me my first BALLERHORN in the nightfall
(Sorry about the mic. I was on the phone.)
PS4: Voranth
Compared to lamps which is pure intensity, the bridge which combines solo and team play well, and Crota which I've gone through maybe four different valid strategies now...
I guess my point is that Bungie needs to just make more and more raids, or make Strikes more mini-Raids.
and ARC Burn!
Xbox Live / Steam
I think people get really soured by bugginess and the tightness of Crota. Which was the same with Atheon. Which will like be the same for the Mega-Shank or whatever we fight next.
Hell, if they fixed the heavy ammo bug I would be much more kind to any raid design, too.
I still think VoG is the better raid (you should never just go through a light at the end of a tunnel and magically appear in a new place), but the abyss and the bridge of Crota are both a lot of fun.
Edit: I should refresh before posting...
Penny Arcade 100 Group for PS4
Yeah, when the sword fails to drop 4 times in a row or Crota's shield instantly regenerates even though there is continuous damage being applied, it really makes it so that we're just wasting our time. Also the no room for error is a bit tight as well.