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[Dragon Age Inquisition] Seeker Pentaghast found some lost hobo in a ditch and here we are

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    KwoaruKwoaru Confident Smirk Flawless Golden PecsRegistered User regular
    edited January 2015
    Maddoc wrote: »
    Quoth wrote: »
    I hate to bug, but @vsove‌

    Any idea about fixes for the Cole and Dorian quests, are those coming anytime soon

    Is the Dorian one even an actual bug or is it just a very specific trigger

    If you're talking about Mother Giselle never starting it, it's a very specific trigger.
    Don't talk to Dorian about Alexius after you've judged him until AFTER you get the mission from Mother Giselle. It's possible that initiating his conversation about Alexius after you've judged him skips some dialogue flags.
    I never got any part of anything you're talking about in that Dorian related spoiler

    Kwoaru on
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    RainfallRainfall Registered User regular
    Shorty wrote: »
    Rainfall wrote: »
    Seriously, DA2, let's look at the two most egregious examples of awful mages and awful templars.
    Ser Alrik is Tranquiling mages and raping them. He's explicitly shot down by his superior, Meredith, and it's clear that he's gone rogue. In the same scene, Anders kills an innocent mage just for calling him a demon.

    Quentin is a rogue blood mage who is kidnapping women, chopping them up, and making a frankenbride for himself. He's supported by Orsino, who is fascinated by his work, and is actively protecting him from the Templars.

    Both of these are extremely shitty, but only one is endorsed by his superior. The Templars are far from perfect but at least they fucking try.
    uh dude the ONLY thing about Ser Alrik that Meredith "shot down" was his plan for rendering ALL mages tranquil

    now there isn't any evidence that she knew he was a serial rapist, but he clearly wasn't the only one in on it

    so either Meredith knew and did nothing or she had no idea about a bunch of rapists in her forces, and either way she's incompetent

    I'll take incompetent over actively protecting a serial killer.

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    -Tal-Tal Registered User regular
    Meredith and Orsino both suck

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    JohnHamJohnHam Registered User regular
    Rainfall wrote: »
    Shorty wrote: »
    Rainfall wrote: »
    Seriously, DA2, let's look at the two most egregious examples of awful mages and awful templars.
    Ser Alrik is Tranquiling mages and raping them. He's explicitly shot down by his superior, Meredith, and it's clear that he's gone rogue. In the same scene, Anders kills an innocent mage just for calling him a demon.

    Quentin is a rogue blood mage who is kidnapping women, chopping them up, and making a frankenbride for himself. He's supported by Orsino, who is fascinated by his work, and is actively protecting him from the Templars.

    Both of these are extremely shitty, but only one is endorsed by his superior. The Templars are far from perfect but at least they fucking try.
    uh dude the ONLY thing about Ser Alrik that Meredith "shot down" was his plan for rendering ALL mages tranquil

    now there isn't any evidence that she knew he was a serial rapist, but he clearly wasn't the only one in on it

    so either Meredith knew and did nothing or she had no idea about a bunch of rapists in her forces, and either way she's incompetent

    I'll take incompetent over actively protecting a serial killer.

    Saying that all mages bear some sort of collective responsibility for Orsino is absurd (if anything the Templar's power structure gave him what he has), whereas the inverse is pretty fair!

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    Randy ButternubbsRandy Butternubbs Registered User regular
    edited January 2015
    Rainfall wrote: »
    Rainfall wrote: »
    Also the Templar leaders (Meredith, Thrask, and Cullen) basically continually beg the mages to just work with them rather than blocking the attempts to find blood mage serial killers at every turn.

    Let's be real here. The entire time Meredith is the one in charge, Thrask and Cullen are a couple random side guys, but they're not sitting there having discussions with her on policy and major decisions.

    These mages were kept under heavy guard their entire lives in a prison in all but name, were constantly fearmongered to the public, and threatened with a fate far worse than death for the slightest of infractions. Sure Meredith rejects the whole 'tranquil solution' because no shit, if there aren't any more mages she can't make power grabs anymore. It's not as if she isn't still DOING it to these people left and right, the only thing she rejects is doing it to literally every last one of them.

    Sure, you can claim "oh look at all these blood mages", but I mean if you set up a whole system built to put the screws to these guys, and then turn that shit up to 11 you don't also get to go "Look at all these blood mages! Mages can't be trusted!" Like, she set this up specifically to push them to that as their only option to get out of her frickin ultra-prison. These aren't free people with a curfew, these are people thrown in jail at age 4 for existing and then told every day of their lives "One wrong move and we'll kill you or so much worse." by a lady making a power grab in the city to boot.

    Basically, you don't get to put a gun to somebody's head and say "last words?" and then when they make a move for the gun go "LOOK EVERYONE, A VIOLENT MONSTER!"

    Except that Meredith runs her circle pretty well, doesn't kill or tranquil mages unless they go full abomination or blood mage(nothing bad happens to the one mage who just wanted to get laid and broke out with two psychos) and Bethany is pretty damn happy to be there. The circle only goes into lockdown when there's fucking packs of renegade blood mages roaming the area in Act 3.

    I feel like we weren't playing the same game here. Throughout act I and II I would constantly hear about her throwing around Tranquility like timeouts, people were crazy intimidated by her, every mage from the circle and runing from it was deathly afraid. She was going to have a bunch of mages fleeing the blight that were ASKING to come to her circle killed because they were apostates fleeing the circle?

    I just like, I feel like I was CONSTANTLY running into stuff about how she would do it to everyone and anyone who pissed her off and she was incredibly power hungry and unreasonable to boot. Where are you getting all this "Meredith ran a great circle and everyone was just a jerk" stuff from here?

    Randy Butternubbs on
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    RainfallRainfall Registered User regular
    Most of that is Orsino talking shit up, Meredith is a pretty reasonable lady with some really shitty people under her command that she definitely doesn't do enough to uproot.

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    ChincymcchillaChincymcchilla Registered User regular
    Rainfall wrote: »
    Rainfall wrote: »
    Also the Templar leaders (Meredith, Thrask, and Cullen) basically continually beg the mages to just work with them rather than blocking the attempts to find blood mage serial killers at every turn.

    Let's be real here. The entire time Meredith is the one in charge, Thrask and Cullen are a couple random side guys, but they're not sitting there having discussions with her on policy and major decisions.

    These mages were kept under heavy guard their entire lives in a prison in all but name, were constantly fearmongered to the public, and threatened with a fate far worse than death for the slightest of infractions. Sure Meredith rejects the whole 'tranquil solution' because no shit, if there aren't any more mages she can't make power grabs anymore. It's not as if she isn't still DOING it to these people left and right, the only thing she rejects is doing it to literally every last one of them.

    Sure, you can claim "oh look at all these blood mages", but I mean if you set up a whole system built to put the screws to these guys, and then turn that shit up to 11 you don't also get to go "Look at all these blood mages! Mages can't be trusted!" Like, she set this up specifically to push them to that as their only option to get out of her frickin ultra-prison. These aren't free people with a curfew, these are people thrown in jail at age 4 for existing and then told every day of their lives "One wrong move and we'll kill you or so much worse." by a lady making a power grab in the city to boot.

    Basically, you don't get to put a gun to somebody's head and say "last words?" and then when they make a move for the gun go "LOOK EVERYONE, A VIOLENT MONSTER!"

    Except that Meredith runs her circle pretty well, doesn't kill or tranquil mages unless they go full abomination or blood mage(nothing bad happens to the one mage who just wanted to get laid and broke out with two psychos) and Bethany is pretty damn happy to be there. The circle only goes into lockdown when there's fucking packs of renegade blood mages roaming the area in Act 3.

    It is specifically stated that multiple mages were given tranquility as a punishment.

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    DrDinosaurDrDinosaur Registered User regular
    JohnHam wrote: »
    DrDinosaur wrote: »
    JohnHam wrote: »
    The Templars as an organization literally exist to abridge the rights of magic people. They can get bent, now and forever, amen.

    Well

    No? Not at all?

    The Templars were originally created to protect Mages and Circles, something you don't see very much of in DA2, but do see in DA:I.

    I mean...what? Like a Templar "protecting" a mage from a demon is exactly what the Templar would do if the mage wasn't even there.

    The Templars were established as a military arm of the Chantry to protect their members/communities from magical (and other) threats. Then at some point they decided that any person with magical sensitivity constituted a threat and had to be forcibly imprisoned and exploited forever.

    The Templars were established with two charges: to protect the outside world from magical threats, and to protect mages from the outside world. While the Circles were originally used purely as prisons for mages, it was the Templar order that petitioned the Divine at the time to allow Circles to exist as places where mages could practice their magic.

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    MeldingMelding Registered User regular
    Meredith was stated as a tyrant many times, it's just not shown very well.

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    I needed anime to post.I needed anime to post. boom Registered User regular
    $60 for Inquisition looks really good against the $89.99 Bungie expects to wring out of consumers in Destiny & up to date DLC.

    I'm pretty sure this qualifies as "faint praise"

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    -Tal-Tal Registered User regular
    The templars suffer the typical cop corruption

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    Mr. GMr. G Registered User regular
    Meredith's sword makes lightsaber sounds

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    ShortyShorty touching the meat Intergalactic Cool CourtRegistered User regular
    Rainfall wrote: »
    Rainfall wrote: »
    Also the Templar leaders (Meredith, Thrask, and Cullen) basically continually beg the mages to just work with them rather than blocking the attempts to find blood mage serial killers at every turn.

    Let's be real here. The entire time Meredith is the one in charge, Thrask and Cullen are a couple random side guys, but they're not sitting there having discussions with her on policy and major decisions.

    These mages were kept under heavy guard their entire lives in a prison in all but name, were constantly fearmongered to the public, and threatened with a fate far worse than death for the slightest of infractions. Sure Meredith rejects the whole 'tranquil solution' because no shit, if there aren't any more mages she can't make power grabs anymore. It's not as if she isn't still DOING it to these people left and right, the only thing she rejects is doing it to literally every last one of them.

    Sure, you can claim "oh look at all these blood mages", but I mean if you set up a whole system built to put the screws to these guys, and then turn that shit up to 11 you don't also get to go "Look at all these blood mages! Mages can't be trusted!" Like, she set this up specifically to push them to that as their only option to get out of her frickin ultra-prison. These aren't free people with a curfew, these are people thrown in jail at age 4 for existing and then told every day of their lives "One wrong move and we'll kill you or so much worse." by a lady making a power grab in the city to boot.

    Basically, you don't get to put a gun to somebody's head and say "last words?" and then when they make a move for the gun go "LOOK EVERYONE, A VIOLENT MONSTER!"

    Except that Meredith runs her circle pretty well, doesn't kill or tranquil mages unless they go full abomination or blood mage(nothing bad happens to the one mage who just wanted to get laid and broke out with two psychos) and Bethany is pretty damn happy to be there. The circle only goes into lockdown when there's fucking packs of renegade blood mages roaming the area in Act 3.

    It is specifically stated that multiple mages were given tranquility as a punishment.

    not to mention Meredith was all for executing the mage who breaks out to get laid and only goes easy (aka puts him in solitary confinement) if Hawke asks her to

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    MeldingMelding Registered User regular
    -Tal wrote: »
    The templars suffer the typical cop corruption

    i want to say "Mage lives matter" but that seems like a very childish thing to do.

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    -Tal-Tal Registered User regular
    OI SO YER A MODERATE AREN'T YA

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    MeldingMelding Registered User regular
    no, i just mean, with the actual current political climate and the fact i woke up an hour ago it seems like it would be in bad taste.

    i will say Kill all Templars though.

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    Mr. GMr. G Registered User regular
    It's weird that Dragon Age 2 was my hook into that world

    I played through the entirety of Origins when it came out and 20 hours of Inquisition and never really felt drawn into the universe, that it paled in comparison to Mass Effect

    I still kinda think that but boy DA2 got its hooks in me deep and didn't let go

    I basically played the entire thing for 4 days straight and now I'm way into all of it

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    KwoaruKwoaru Confident Smirk Flawless Golden PecsRegistered User regular
    DA2 is waaaay more personal a story than DAO or DAI

    or anything bioware except ME2 maybe

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    MeldingMelding Registered User regular
    Seriously though, kill all templars.

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    I needed anime to post.I needed anime to post. boom Registered User regular
    Hot tip, mages v Templars is a super hamfisted "make everyone as awful as possible, that makes decisions HARD, this world is dark, are you motherfuckers ready for the new shit" nonsense that isn't interesting enough to argue about due to how exaggeratedly manufactured it is

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    KwoaruKwoaru Confident Smirk Flawless Golden PecsRegistered User regular
    Hot tip, mages v Templars is a super hamfisted "make everyone as awful as possible, that makes decisions HARD, this world is dark, are you motherfuckers ready for the new shit" nonsense that isn't interesting enough to argue about due to how exaggeratedly manufactured it is

    only to you

    because you suck

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    ShortyShorty touching the meat Intergalactic Cool CourtRegistered User regular
    Rainfall wrote: »
    Shorty wrote: »
    Rainfall wrote: »
    Seriously, DA2, let's look at the two most egregious examples of awful mages and awful templars.
    Ser Alrik is Tranquiling mages and raping them. He's explicitly shot down by his superior, Meredith, and it's clear that he's gone rogue. In the same scene, Anders kills an innocent mage just for calling him a demon.

    Quentin is a rogue blood mage who is kidnapping women, chopping them up, and making a frankenbride for himself. He's supported by Orsino, who is fascinated by his work, and is actively protecting him from the Templars.

    Both of these are extremely shitty, but only one is endorsed by his superior. The Templars are far from perfect but at least they fucking try.
    uh dude the ONLY thing about Ser Alrik that Meredith "shot down" was his plan for rendering ALL mages tranquil

    now there isn't any evidence that she knew he was a serial rapist, but he clearly wasn't the only one in on it

    so either Meredith knew and did nothing or she had no idea about a bunch of rapists in her forces, and either way she's incompetent

    I'll take incompetent over actively protecting a serial killer.

    even when "incompetent" means creating a situation in which rapists have captive victims?

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    ChincymcchillaChincymcchilla Registered User regular
    Hot tip, mages v Templars is a super hamfisted "make everyone as awful as possible, that makes decisions HARD, this world is dark, are you motherfuckers ready for the new shit" nonsense that isn't interesting enough to argue about due to how exaggeratedly manufactured it is

    I mean

    this is clearly wrong since people are doing it right now

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    MaddocMaddoc I'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother? Registered User regular
    I mean, the whole crux behind the mages and templar conflict is literal rapists and terrorists and actual factual monster people.

    It's not exactly the most nuanced conflict.

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    QuothQuoth the Raven Miami, FL FOR REALRegistered User regular
    I love this game and I would almost pay BioWare money for the privilege of being allowed to write notes and codex entries

    Almost

    I got bills, yo

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    KaplarKaplar On Google MapsRegistered User regular
    Worst dragon age character is Orsino. Us mages are stomping it up right Orsin-no stop it why are you doing that?

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    Randy ButternubbsRandy Butternubbs Registered User regular
    edited January 2015
    It's not as if Orsino is Dr. Awesome cool guy, but when I side with the mages I'm not saying "You and me against the world my bff Orsino!"

    Like, Orsino as a person is a turd sandwich. Not much of an argument there. But the choice isn't Meredith vs Orsino. It's Meredith and her loyal fear/genocide squad that have also taken hold of an entire city-state through force, fear, and intimidation and who have also decided that every single mage is going to burn....vs Orsino (who is a jerk) and a massive swath of completely innocent bystanders (who are also lifelong prisoners of the frickin Fearhouse that Meredith runs) who have just been ever so politely informed that they will presently be murdered or worse for the actions of a lone crazy terrorist that they have never met and had nothing to do with.

    Randy Butternubbs on
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    I needed anime to post.I needed anime to post. boom Registered User regular
    Hot tip, mages v Templars is a super hamfisted "make everyone as awful as possible, that makes decisions HARD, this world is dark, are you motherfuckers ready for the new shit" nonsense that isn't interesting enough to argue about due to how exaggeratedly manufactured it is

    I mean

    this is clearly wrong since people are doing it right now

    do you know how many times a video game has asked me to choose between two shitty options, that it goes out of its way to make as shitty as possible, and actively locks me out of any "good" one

    it is one of the most creatively bankrupt tools in video game storytelling, short of maybe amnesia stories. it would be the most hamfisted thing in the game, if it weren't for your mother becoming a frankenslut sex zombie. it's manipulative, designed to make you say "ho man i made a hard decision!", but the only reason it's hard is because it doesn't give you anything but wrong decisions.




    for extra "ugh" it also adds a nice layer of "MAYBE THE OPPRESSED ARE JUST AS BAD AS THEIR OPPRESSORS, I DON'T KNOW, I'M JUST THE AUTHOR, I'M NOT SAYING ANYTHING, YOU'RE MAKING THE CHOICE" as though ken levine snuck into the bioware offices and wrote it personally

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    LanglyLangly Registered User regular
    as a frankenslut,

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    DJ EebsDJ Eebs Moderator, Administrator admin
    you know I'm sure you could find a more unpleasant way to make that argument if you really worked at it

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    Randy ButternubbsRandy Butternubbs Registered User regular
    Hold on to your butts kids, this just got interesting!

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    KwoaruKwoaru Confident Smirk Flawless Golden PecsRegistered User regular
    edited January 2015
    for extra "ugh" it also adds a nice layer of "MAYBE THE OPPRESSED ARE JUST AS BAD AS THEIR OPPRESSORS, I DON'T KNOW, I'M JUST THE AUTHOR, I'M NOT SAYING ANYTHING, YOU'RE MAKING THE CHOICE" as though ken levine snuck into the bioware offices and wrote it personally

    well this is kind of literally the case

    because of all that time mages were the oppressors and normal people were oppressed

    and then they took power and it turns out they are in fact just as shitty

    Kwoaru on
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    HobnailHobnail Registered User regular
    Please, it's Frankenstein's Monsterslut

    Broke as fuck and the bills past due, all amounts assist and are kindly received.

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    I needed anime to post.I needed anime to post. boom Registered User regular
    you know I'm sure you could find a more unpleasant way to make that argument if you really worked at it

    well i could ask the da2 writers to have a go at it so we have a bit more rape

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    JohnHamJohnHam Registered User regular
    Kwoaru wrote: »
    for extra "ugh" it also adds a nice layer of "MAYBE THE OPPRESSED ARE JUST AS BAD AS THEIR OPPRESSORS, I DON'T KNOW, I'M JUST THE AUTHOR, I'M NOT SAYING ANYTHING, YOU'RE MAKING THE CHOICE" as though ken levine snuck into the bioware offices and wrote it personally

    well this is kind of literally the case

    because of all that time mages were the oppressors and normal people were oppressed

    and then they took power and it turns out they are in fact just as shitty

    If by "literally the case" you mean "written that way, on purpose, by a human", which is sort of the problem being expressed. DA is obviously meant to allude to the real world but by making the mages death factories it really perverts the allusion in a way I also dislike!

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    CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    edited January 2015
    Rainfall wrote: »
    Rainfall wrote: »
    Also the Templar leaders (Meredith, Thrask, and Cullen) basically continually beg the mages to just work with them rather than blocking the attempts to find blood mage serial killers at every turn.

    Let's be real here. The entire time Meredith is the one in charge, Thrask and Cullen are a couple random side guys, but they're not sitting there having discussions with her on policy and major decisions.

    These mages were kept under heavy guard their entire lives in a prison in all but name, were constantly fearmongered to the public, and threatened with a fate far worse than death for the slightest of infractions. Sure Meredith rejects the whole 'tranquil solution' because no shit, if there aren't any more mages she can't make power grabs anymore. It's not as if she isn't still DOING it to these people left and right, the only thing she rejects is doing it to literally every last one of them.

    Sure, you can claim "oh look at all these blood mages", but I mean if you set up a whole system built to put the screws to these guys, and then turn that shit up to 11 you don't also get to go "Look at all these blood mages! Mages can't be trusted!" Like, she set this up specifically to push them to that as their only option to get out of her frickin ultra-prison. These aren't free people with a curfew, these are people thrown in jail at age 4 for existing and then told every day of their lives "One wrong move and we'll kill you or so much worse." by a lady making a power grab in the city to boot.

    Basically, you don't get to put a gun to somebody's head and say "last words?" and then when they make a move for the gun go "LOOK EVERYONE, A VIOLENT MONSTER!"

    Except that Meredith runs her circle pretty well, doesn't kill or tranquil mages unless they go full abomination or blood mage(nothing bad happens to the one mage who just wanted to get laid and broke out with two psychos) and Bethany is pretty damn happy to be there. The circle only goes into lockdown when there's fucking packs of renegade blood mages roaming the area in Act 3.

    I feel like we weren't playing the same game here. Throughout act I and II I would constantly hear about her throwing around Tranquility like timeouts, people were crazy intimidated by her, every mage from the circle and runing from it was deathly afraid. She was going to have a bunch of mages fleeing the blight that were ASKING to come to her circle killed because they were apostates fleeing the circle?

    I just like, I feel like I was CONSTANTLY running into stuff about how she would do it to everyone and anyone who pissed her off and she was incredibly power hungry and unreasonable to boot. Where are you getting all this "Meredith ran a great circle and everyone was just a jerk" stuff from here?

    The very first Tranquil we meet in the game is Karl. Did we ever hear why he was tranquilized? I thought the reason was either "had a relationship with another mage" or "Thought the Templars were dicks." Whatever the reason he got tranquilized, it had nothing to do with going full abomination.

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    ShenShen Registered User regular
    It's weird because DA2 gives you an option that is 'Both of y'all are crazy', then yanks it away and says 'Actually nah, pick a side'. It's the worst.

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    I needed anime to post.I needed anime to post. boom Registered User regular
    JohnHam wrote: »
    Kwoaru wrote: »
    for extra "ugh" it also adds a nice layer of "MAYBE THE OPPRESSED ARE JUST AS BAD AS THEIR OPPRESSORS, I DON'T KNOW, I'M JUST THE AUTHOR, I'M NOT SAYING ANYTHING, YOU'RE MAKING THE CHOICE" as though ken levine snuck into the bioware offices and wrote it personally

    well this is kind of literally the case

    because of all that time mages were the oppressors and normal people were oppressed

    and then they took power and it turns out they are in fact just as shitty

    If by "literally the case" you mean "written that way, on purpose, by a human", which is sort of the problem being expressed. DA is obviously meant to allude to the real world but by making the mages death factories it really perverts the allusion in a way I also dislike!

    a human who, statistically speaking, has probably not been among the oppressed

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    Grey GhostGrey Ghost Registered User regular
    I like that in Inquisition you can ask Varric "what is this shit you wrote about Orsino, how does ANY of that make sense?" and he's like what do you want, I don't know much about this shit

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    NaphtaliNaphtali Hazy + Flow SeaRegistered User regular
    Kwoaru wrote: »
    DA2 is waaaay more personal a story than DAO or DAI

    or anything bioware except ME2 maybe

    Its funny, I was telling Yukira earlier that when I played the intro to DAI (I haven't played the other games in the series) it really didn't grab me at all; specifically one of my complaints is the Inquisitor starts out as such a cipher where as Shepard was such a more personable character and something about that approach resonated with me way more. ME2 is probably my favorite BW game to date as well.

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