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[Dragon Age Inquisition] Seeker Pentaghast found some lost hobo in a ditch and here we are

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    DoobhDoobh She/Her, Ace Pan/Bisexual 8-) What's up, bootlickers?Registered User regular
    Solar wrote: »
    Dubh wrote: »
    I also believe that most hatred directed at Morrigan comes from deeply rooted misogyny

    institutional sexism is powerful, DO NOT think you're immune to it

    I thought that DA1 Morrigan was poorly written in that she seemed to just be a nasty, unpleasant person but without fitting into a framework as to why that is the case.

    Like, she had reasoning as to why she might be anti-social (raised in an undead infested swamp by her demon mother) and also prioritise her own survival over the good of other (raised in an undead infested swamp by her demon mother) and also believe that people should in general be tough, self-reliant and quick witted (raised in an undead infested swamp by her demon mother) but then her social interactions didn't fit that.

    There was scope there for an interesting framework, a system of morality which was different from everyone else , but she ended up being a pretty generic bioware evil puppy kicker and I was all "well you can sit at your own goddamn camp fire and think about what you've done then."

    In DAI, I would say that I liked her a whole lot more. Not in a sense of she's changed as a character within the narrative, but in a sense that I think Morrigan should really have always been this kind of mysterious, sultry yet predatory person. Very... witchy. She definitely has this different moral framework (she killed a guy, and she regrets that she had to kill him because he could have given her useful information and she doesn't, like, enjoy killing people or anything, but she totally will if she feels like it's necessary and then not care later on) and she won't just help you but she will give you the chance to help yourself. She's got her beliefs about what people should be like, but she's not obnoxious about them. "Can't argue with success" after all.

    never really saw her as a puppy kicker

    often difficult, yeah

    but once you get past the bitter outer shell, she opens up and makes more sense

    gonna do the standard disclaimer and make it clear I don't think she was the best character ever
    but female characters like Morrigan get a LOT of shit, and I don't think they're treated fairly

    for gods' sake, Miranda is casually accused of being wrong ALL THE TIME in the final mission of ME2, when she's only wrong once, and doesn't even use absolute language in that situation

    and maybe people laughing at that fake DAO DLC video where you can "slap the shit out of" morrigan has left a big impression on me

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    DoobhDoobh She/Her, Ace Pan/Bisexual 8-) What's up, bootlickers?Registered User regular
    I am growing more and more convinced that you're not a human being, but actually some mad scientists attempt to create a sentient argument

    uh... fuck you?

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    JavenJaven Registered User regular
    She's also like the only person in Thedas who talks like she's a character in King Lear. Who taught her those speech patterns? It's not like Flemmeth talks like that

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    DoobhDoobh She/Her, Ace Pan/Bisexual 8-) What's up, bootlickers?Registered User regular
    "SKEL-EEETAL HAND" *waves hand*

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    QuothQuoth the Raven Miami, FL FOR REALRegistered User regular
    The Shrine of Dumat, man
    Light a lamp, would you, Calpernia? Everything's so dark...

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    PlatyPlaty Registered User regular
    Javen wrote: »
    She's also like the only person in Thedas who talks like she's a character in King Lear. Who taught her those speech patterns? It's not like Flemmeth talks like that

    I actually liked that aspect of Morrigan

    I'm also trying to think of male characters which were written similar to Morrigan in their interactions with the palyer character

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    JavenJaven Registered User regular
    edited April 2015
    Javen wrote: »
    She's also like the only person in Thedas who talks like she's a character in King Lear. Who taught her those speech patterns? It's not like Flemmeth talks like that

    I actually liked that aspect of Morrigan

    I'm also trying to think of male characters which were written similar to Morrigan in their interactions with the palyer character

    Sten, definitely Sten

    EDIT: Also it's just weird. No one else talks like that! It's a very strange thing that she has a completely unique manner of speaking that has yet to be displayed by anyone else, and I think at this point we've met at least several people from pretty much every other nation and region in Thedas, and none of them speak like that.

    Javen on
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    QuothQuoth the Raven Miami, FL FOR REALRegistered User regular
    Nobody talks like Sera either, for what it's worth

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    PlatyPlaty Registered User regular
    Maybe she got it from books Flemeth keeps

    I actually liked the way she talked, I felt her outfit was what kept me from really warming up to her initially, just because it seemed so out of place

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    WybornWyborn GET EQUIPPED Registered User regular
    Morrigan's highfalutin but never struck me as anachronistic compared to the other characters

    Sera kind of did

    dN0T6ur.png
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    RainfallRainfall Registered User regular
    Morrigan has some pretty big inconsistencies in how she's written that soured me on her character, but that slapping mod was a LITTLE MUCH.

    Also, given that you can ice every other party member in the game, letting her walk away in Redcliffe felt... weird.

    She was rad in Inquisition though.

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    DoobhDoobh She/Her, Ace Pan/Bisexual 8-) What's up, bootlickers?Registered User regular
    Maybe she got it from books Flemeth keeps

    I actually liked the way she talked, I felt her outfit was what kept me from really warming up to her initially, just because it seemed so out of place

    probably the first time I stared at video game boobs wondering how an outfit would even work

    unless that tiny bra is magically supportive, jumping around the battle field would suck big time

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    ProhassProhass Registered User regular
    So I've beaten the game and the dlc and found every shard I could including the ones in the dlc area, but I'm still short 5 for the key quest, including having not spent any in the dlc key thing. There's no mission trackers in any of the areas to show me where the shards that I'm missing are. Also in places like Crestwood I still have some missions to do but when I select them they don't have mission markers or objectives

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    QuothQuoth the Raven Miami, FL FOR REALRegistered User regular
    If you're missing shards and they aren't on the map, you probably missed a skull?

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    KanaKana Registered User regular
    Dubh wrote: »
    Kana wrote: »
    Dubh wrote: »
    I also believe that most hatred directed at Morrigan comes from deeply rooted misogyny

    institutional sexism is powerful, DO NOT think you're immune to it

    This seems like a deeply annoying position to start off a discussion on why people may not like a character.

    It doesn't say why you like her, nor examines the sexism.

    It's just a straight up claim that any dislike for Morrigan is sexism unless proven otherwise, because.

    she's a woman with a blunt personality, and those characters tend to evoke a great deal of hate whenever they're in a Bioware game

    whether or not I'm annoying has no bearing on what cultural prejudices have their grip on you, OR me

    I didn't say you were annoying, I said your argument was. There's a difference.

    A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
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    DoobhDoobh She/Her, Ace Pan/Bisexual 8-) What's up, bootlickers?Registered User regular
    don't the skulls stay on the map after you use them, too?

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    WeedLordVegetaWeedLordVegeta Registered User regular
    morrigan, alistair, leliana

    basically half of your origins party seems like they're just a stack of qualities meant to make them SEEM super important and special, without actually weaving them together well

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    DoobhDoobh She/Her, Ace Pan/Bisexual 8-) What's up, bootlickers?Registered User regular
    Kana wrote: »
    Dubh wrote: »
    Kana wrote: »
    Dubh wrote: »
    I also believe that most hatred directed at Morrigan comes from deeply rooted misogyny

    institutional sexism is powerful, DO NOT think you're immune to it

    This seems like a deeply annoying position to start off a discussion on why people may not like a character.

    It doesn't say why you like her, nor examines the sexism.

    It's just a straight up claim that any dislike for Morrigan is sexism unless proven otherwise, because.

    she's a woman with a blunt personality, and those characters tend to evoke a great deal of hate whenever they're in a Bioware game

    whether or not I'm annoying has no bearing on what cultural prejudices have their grip on you, OR me

    I didn't say you were annoying, I said your argument was. There's a difference.

    too bad? point still stands

    annoying =/= wrong

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    KanaKana Registered User regular
    I wasn't really much of a fan of any of the DAO characters really. And they never really felt like they had much of a group dynamic either.

    A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
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    ProhassProhass Registered User regular
    Quoth wrote: »
    If you're missing shards and they aren't on the map, you probably missed a skull?

    I'm such a dummy! I've been playing this game for a 100 hours and haven't noticed there's a collections section in the journal. Any idea why I have quests like "still waters" in Crestwood unable to be tracked? It says I have to close the fade rift under old Crestwood but I have no idea where that is and it doesn't provide a marker, same with "burdens of command" where I have to destroy a rage demon in the flooded caves

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    KanaKana Registered User regular
    Dubh wrote: »
    Kana wrote: »
    Dubh wrote: »
    Kana wrote: »
    Dubh wrote: »
    I also believe that most hatred directed at Morrigan comes from deeply rooted misogyny

    institutional sexism is powerful, DO NOT think you're immune to it

    This seems like a deeply annoying position to start off a discussion on why people may not like a character.

    It doesn't say why you like her, nor examines the sexism.

    It's just a straight up claim that any dislike for Morrigan is sexism unless proven otherwise, because.

    she's a woman with a blunt personality, and those characters tend to evoke a great deal of hate whenever they're in a Bioware game

    whether or not I'm annoying has no bearing on what cultural prejudices have their grip on you, OR me

    I didn't say you were annoying, I said your argument was. There's a difference.

    too bad? point still stands

    annoying =/= wrong

    You weren't making a point, you were making an unsupported assertion.

    Which is why it was annoying, because now for anyone else to engage with your discussion they have to prove their innocence of why they dislike a character - but it still won't matter, because oh well you're not immune to sexism anyway so even if you think you have a reason for disliking this character, Dubh is still free to tell you that actually it's because you're sexist.

    To which I say [giant fart noise]

    Just because sexists do not like a character does not mean that therefore anyone who dislikes a character is sexist. Duh.

    A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
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    MuzzmuzzMuzzmuzz Registered User regular
    Looks like you didn't finish the main Crestwood quest line. There's a cave just outside of old Crestwood that takes you to both of those quests. Also, there's an eleven artifact there too as well as mosaic pieces.

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    DoobhDoobh She/Her, Ace Pan/Bisexual 8-) What's up, bootlickers?Registered User regular
    YOU feel obligated to defend yourself on not being sexist

    I made no such requirement to do so
    don't pin your insecurity on anyone else

    we all say sexist shit, and have sexist beliefs btw
    there's no magical switch to turn it all off

    wether it's internalized or sexist depends on your gender

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    ProhassProhass Registered User regular
    edited April 2015
    Muzzmuzz wrote: »
    Looks like you didn't finish the main Crestwood quest line. There's a cave just outside of old Crestwood that takes you to both of those quests. Also, there's an eleven artifact there too as well as mosaic pieces.

    Awesome thanks. Overall as someone who was never a big fan of the series I loved it. I didn't mind the big open areas as they were beautiful, but I would've loved a little more choice in what happened in them. In one of the e3 previews I remember them showing you deciding between saving a village or storming a castle, and they didn't have any of that. I hope with the next one they have at least one large choice like that per zone, and depending on what you chose the zone looks different or has different baddies or something. For me that was the only thing that was missing in this game, otherwise it was my favourite in the series, and as someone who likes mass effect more, the environments got me so excited for me4. Seriously every goddamn second of this game was lit and textured so well, as well as designed perfectly, every single scene looked like concept art, in that vistas and environments were framed with a lot of care

    Also the power resource was pretty useless, by the end of the game I had something like 250 to spare

    Prohass on
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    HefflingHeffling No Pic EverRegistered User regular
    Can we PLEASE not drag this thread down into another Gamergate/Sexism discussion?

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    LalaboxLalabox Registered User regular
    Dubh wrote: »
    "SKEL-EEETAL HAND" *waves hand*

    I found it really funny when half the forum seemed to go nuts over that video and talked about how the actor had made this huge stuff up.
    And that's actually how you pronounce that word if you are British.


    Also morrigan is great and only got better in the third game. I didn't end up using her as much for origins, since I didn't like her magic tree as much, which was a pity. She suffered from some bad writing at times, but her character was pretty cool.

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    MeldingMelding Registered User regular
    i liked Morrigan in DA3, but not in origin. Mostly because every time i brought her somewhere all she did was complain that I wanted to help people.

    What's the point of saving the world if everything is going to be shit in it after?

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    A duck!A duck! Moderator, ClubPA Mod Emeritus
    Melding wrote: »
    i liked Morrigan in DA3, but not in origin. Mostly because every time i brought her somewhere all she did was complain that I wanted to help people.

    What's the point of saving the world if everything is going to be shit in it after?

    That was basically my issue. She's also pretty much the only one like that, outside of Sten sometimes. She was perfectly fine in my total asshole run, however.

    She's mostly fine in DA3, except for one thing:
    I'm at the well with my Elven Mage Inquisitor and I tell her I think I should have it because A.) I'm elven, B.) I'm a mage and C.) it's my heritage and her blow off was pretty damn dismissive. Get fucked, ya jerk.

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    MeldingMelding Registered User regular
    yeah, my City elf and her got along great. like "Yep, let the humans burn i got shit to do, gotta keep trucking" Sten and Morrigan Approve.

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    WybornWyborn GET EQUIPPED Registered User regular
    Morrigan is one of the great assholes in video game history

    Magnificent

    dN0T6ur.png
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    DidgeridooDidgeridoo Flighty Dame Registered User regular
    I'll admit I initially disliked Morrigan partly because of her character's design. Same with Miranda.

    Not because of their characters, per se, but because I resented the way their outfits were designed by the creators of the game. It felt as if they were specifically put in there as eye candy for male players. And I have a hard time accepting the "[insert character here] chooses to dress that way and you should not question that because they're adults and should be able to dress as they wish" because, well

    they didn't choose to dress that way. Character artists chose to dress them that way, and I'm instantly suspicious of the motivations behind those choices in the traditionally male dominated video game industry. Ass-cam (tm) for Miranda didn't do much to disabuse me of that initial reaction.

    I like the characters taken by themselves, though, Miranda particularly. And I never saw that Morrigan slap video that has been referenced, but it sounds beyond terrible.

    I dunno if there's a grand point to this, other than that my feelings toward the characters are very mixed.

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    A duck!A duck! Moderator, ClubPA Mod Emeritus
    I'm not aware of slapping her in her DLC.
    You can stab her in the midsection, though.

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    WeedLordVegetaWeedLordVegeta Registered User regular
    Dubh wrote: »
    I also believe that most hatred directed at Morrigan comes from deeply rooted misogyny

    institutional sexism is powerful, DO NOT think you're immune to it

    Along this line of thinking, I'm largely convinced that if Viv's more assertive and authoritative personality traits had been given to, say, Dorian, nobody would have batted an eye

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    Crimson KingCrimson King Registered User regular
    Morrigan is somebody's self-insert character from a bargain bin Celtic fantasy series about witches who have a lot of sex

    it's pretty hilarious

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    QuothQuoth the Raven Miami, FL FOR REALRegistered User regular
    Was Morrigan presented as promiscuous because I never got that impression

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    EtchwartsEtchwarts Eyes Up Registered User regular
    Quoth wrote: »
    Was Morrigan presented as promiscuous because I never got that impression

    Nah, she just doesn't wear tons of clothes

    Unless I'm missing something from not romancing her, of course

    In general Morrigan was actually one of my most trusted party members in DA:O, primarily because she was so blunt

    Like
    I trusted taking her vs the desire demon in Redcliffe, because I knew that she had her head on straighter than anyone else in the party, even if that is what led her to be so abrasive

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    EtchwartsEtchwarts Eyes Up Registered User regular
    Also I'm actually glad you brought Miranda up in this conversation, Dubh, because it's got me thinking, and maybe...

    Maybe I don't actually hate Miranda, and I just thought I did because of cultural shit

    I'll have to keep a more open mind on my next ME playthrough!

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    JavenJaven Registered User regular
    edited April 2015
    Quoth wrote: »
    Was Morrigan presented as promiscuous because I never got that impression

    If you ask her if she knows anyone that's not, like, her mom, she'll mention that she would occasionally go into towns and interact with people, and the story eventually centers around her encounters with men, and how she discovered that by having sex with them she could also manipulate them into giving her stuff. There's a story about a mirror she liked or something.

    Javen on
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    -Tal-Tal Registered User regular
    miranda's all right

    squarely in the middle of the pack, in my opinion

    PNk1Ml4.png
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    DoobhDoobh She/Her, Ace Pan/Bisexual 8-) What's up, bootlickers?Registered User regular
    Heffling wrote: »
    Can we PLEASE not drag this thread down into another Gamergate/Sexism discussion?

    nobody mentioned gamergate

    chillllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll
    Also I'm actually glad you brought Miranda up in this conversation, Dubh, because it's got me thinking, and maybe...

    Maybe I don't actually hate Miranda, and I just thought I did because of cultural shit

    I'll have to keep a more open mind on my next ME playthrough!

    if I ever end up doing my mass effect trilogy LP I'm gonna be SO annoying about it

    let me know what you think of her, next time
    Quoth wrote: »
    Was Morrigan presented as promiscuous because I never got that impression

    I think she mentioned having sex with men, on occasion?

    digging through conversations right now, because I swear she did

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