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Virginia: North enough to be hated by the South and South enough to be hated by the North

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Posts

  • TaramoorTaramoor Registered User regular
    Chanus wrote: »
    seems like not a great point to be technically correct about

    I expect he’ll start going on about Irish slavery next just to make things worse.







  • RT800RT800 Registered User regular
    edited February 11
    Isn't indentured servitude considered a form of slavery?

    Potayto potahto welllll...

    They're... both correct? Depending on how charitable/damning you feel like being.

    RT800 on
  • LoisLaneLoisLane Registered User regular
    edited February 11
    RT800 wrote: »
    Isn't indentured servitude considered a form of slavery?

    Potayto potahto. They're... both correct?

    No. There were some legal protections, though who knows how well they were enforced, for indentured servants that slaves just didn't have. It's why you see places like Texas using the words indentured servant over slave when writing school textbooks.

    For instance, the children of indentured servants generally couldn't be sold. Slave children, on the other hand, were fair game. Think of it like how sweatshops are treated as altogether different than general human trafficking even though they might be intertwined.

    LoisLane on
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  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    edited February 11
    Yeah while this isn’t good for Northam it’s important to understand how we went from indentured servitude to slavery because it was more profitable and invented American white supremacy to justify it, so

    Captain Inertia on
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  • RT800RT800 Registered User regular
    LoisLane wrote: »
    RT800 wrote: »
    Isn't indentured servitude considered a form of slavery?

    Potayto potahto. They're... both correct?

    No. There were some legal protections, though who knows how well they were enforced, for indentured servants that slaves just didn't have. It's why you see places like Texas using the words indentured servant over slave when writing school textbooks.

    For instances, the children of indentured servants generally couldn't be sold. Slave children, not so much. Think of it like how sweatshops are treated as altogether different than general human trafficking even though they might be intertwined.

    I'm referring more to the difference between "Slavery as an Institution" as it came to be known in the United States and slavery as a general term for unfree labor.

  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited February 11
    RT800 wrote: »
    LoisLane wrote: »
    RT800 wrote: »
    Isn't indentured servitude considered a form of slavery?

    Potayto potahto. They're... both correct?

    No. There were some legal protections, though who knows how well they were enforced, for indentured servants that slaves just didn't have. It's why you see places like Texas using the words indentured servant over slave when writing school textbooks.

    For instances, the children of indentured servants generally couldn't be sold. Slave children, not so much. Think of it like how sweatshops are treated as altogether different than general human trafficking even though they might be intertwined.

    I'm referring more to the difference between "Slavery as an Institution" as it came to be known in the United States and slavery as a general term for unfree labor.

    I think the purposeful construction of white supremacy, and how it and slavery intertwined is important enough that the distinction makes sense.

    Edit:Now, Northam shouldn't quibble about it, obviously, but there is a distinction

    Fencingsax on
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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited February 11
    I'm imagining he's actually been doing a bunch of the kind of reading he talked about and so he's getting technical because he, like, literally read about that the night before and he's quoting a book or article basically verbatim.

    shryke on
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  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    Damnit I was just thinking this is Northam being too cute showing off his newfound Coates-reading wokeness but I watched again and he’s kind of a dipshit

  • FairchildFairchild Rabbit used short words that were easy to understand, like "Hello Pooh, how about Lunch ?" Registered User regular
  • CoinageCoinage dance all crazy, whip my hair around all crazy Registered User regular
    That's an extremely garbage website you linked to, please don't do that.

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  • ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    It's a shitty slanted rightwing site, but unless there's an egregious racist angle I'm missing or something, it's no worse than something like NRO, and posting links to it is fine.

    (Not that I would take anything they say seriously, based on the few articles I scanned.)

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  • Hexmage-PAHexmage-PA Registered User regular
    edited February 11
    I just saw a poll of Virginians on the Washington Post in which 46% of surveyed whites said Northam should not resign...meanwhile, 58% of surveyed African-Americans said he shouldn't resign.

    Apparently another poll also showed that 11% of respondents had either worn blackface themselves or know someone who has.

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  • kaidkaid Registered User regular
    RT800 wrote: »
    Isn't indentured servitude considered a form of slavery?

    Potayto potahto welllll...

    They're... both correct? Depending on how charitable/damning you feel like being.

    Not necessarily. Indenturement changed in form but initially it was either due to a criminal offense or an actual contract a person entered into. You had terms of indenturement and it was a set contract at the end of which time you regained your freedom. Often they had specific terms/conditions that the person holding that contract had to maintain for the feeding/care of their indentured servants.

    So he was technically correct but one has to be really careful about mixing those two terms up because they are NOT the same thing and implying black slaves from later periods were indentured servants would be really bad.

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  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    This motherfucker has a portrait of a former governor who became a staunch confederate in his office.

    Jesus Christ Northam.

  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    This motherfucker has a portrait of a former governor who became a staunch confederate in his office.

    Jesus Christ Northam.

    Also the only governor outside Northam who is from the same part of the state.

    Also pretty much if it was a white male alive and in power at any point from 1840-1860 there is a good chance they were a Confederate.

    Though Virginia is the purple/blue odd duck of the South it is also the capital of the Confederacy and is still wrestling with that.

    Sadly how it seems we wrestle with that is either a)remove it all and not talk about it or b)leave it up and not talk about.

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  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    This motherfucker has a portrait of a former governor who became a staunch confederate in his office.

    Jesus Christ Northam.

    Also the only governor outside Northam who is from the same part of the state.

    Also pretty much if it was a white male alive and in power at any point from 1840-1860 there is a good chance they were a Confederate.

    Though Virginia is the purple/blue odd duck of the South it is also the capital of the Confederacy and is still wrestling with that.

    Sadly how it seems we wrestle with that is either a)remove it all and not talk about it or b)leave it up and not talk about.

    It’s still up there during his “I’m a newly woke” tour though

    He was asked about it one of said interviews and gave the “honor history” response

    He’s a godsdamned dipshit

  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    I'm not sure anyone doubts he's a dipshit after that amazing press conference.

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  • miscellaneousinsanitymiscellaneousinsanity grass grows, birds fly, sun shines, and brother, i hurt peopleRegistered User regular
    here's a cool bit of news, for a change

    Richmond City Council renames Boulevard for Arthur Ashe
    The council voted 8-0-1 to change the name of the street from Boulevard to Arthur Ashe Boulevard, endorsing the plan put forth by 2nd District Councilwoman Kimberly Gray last fall. Councilwoman Reva Trammell abstained.

    Gray’s was the third attempt to rename the street for Ashe, the first black man to win Wimbledon, the U.S. Open and the Australian Open. He was barred from playing at the tennis courts on Byrd Park as a child growing up in Richmond. The courts were reserved for white players only.
    The timing of the vote was not lost on supporters of the idea who were present at Monday’s council meeting, or on Gray. She has pitched the name change as a demonstration of the progress the city has made toward racial reconciliation.

    On Monday, Gray said a vote in support of renaming the street for Ashe would show “the Richmond of today is not represented by the tawdry and buffoonish behavior and explanations we have witnessed over the last 10 days.”

    Supporters of the plan said honoring an African-American on the busy street was an opportunity for the city to begin counterbalancing the Confederate iconography that stands on Monument Avenue.

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  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    here's a cool bit of news, for a change

    Richmond City Council renames Boulevard for Arthur Ashe
    The council voted 8-0-1 to change the name of the street from Boulevard to Arthur Ashe Boulevard, endorsing the plan put forth by 2nd District Councilwoman Kimberly Gray last fall. Councilwoman Reva Trammell abstained.

    Gray’s was the third attempt to rename the street for Ashe, the first black man to win Wimbledon, the U.S. Open and the Australian Open. He was barred from playing at the tennis courts on Byrd Park as a child growing up in Richmond. The courts were reserved for white players only.
    The timing of the vote was not lost on supporters of the idea who were present at Monday’s council meeting, or on Gray. She has pitched the name change as a demonstration of the progress the city has made toward racial reconciliation.

    On Monday, Gray said a vote in support of renaming the street for Ashe would show “the Richmond of today is not represented by the tawdry and buffoonish behavior and explanations we have witnessed over the last 10 days.”

    Supporters of the plan said honoring an African-American on the busy street was an opportunity for the city to begin counterbalancing the Confederate iconography that stands on Monument Avenue.

    And when the inevitable "What about celebrating white people? Huh? Why are you tearing down monuments to white people, and putting up monuments to black people? You're the racists!", needs to be met with a single statement.

    "Show me a white person who's deserving of honoring, that isn't an avowed racist, and we'll consider it."

    It's not the color of their skin that is causing monuments to white people to be torn down. It's the content of their character.

  • SyphonBlueSyphonBlue Registered User regular
    MorganV wrote: »
    here's a cool bit of news, for a change

    Richmond City Council renames Boulevard for Arthur Ashe
    The council voted 8-0-1 to change the name of the street from Boulevard to Arthur Ashe Boulevard, endorsing the plan put forth by 2nd District Councilwoman Kimberly Gray last fall. Councilwoman Reva Trammell abstained.

    Gray’s was the third attempt to rename the street for Ashe, the first black man to win Wimbledon, the U.S. Open and the Australian Open. He was barred from playing at the tennis courts on Byrd Park as a child growing up in Richmond. The courts were reserved for white players only.
    The timing of the vote was not lost on supporters of the idea who were present at Monday’s council meeting, or on Gray. She has pitched the name change as a demonstration of the progress the city has made toward racial reconciliation.

    On Monday, Gray said a vote in support of renaming the street for Ashe would show “the Richmond of today is not represented by the tawdry and buffoonish behavior and explanations we have witnessed over the last 10 days.”

    Supporters of the plan said honoring an African-American on the busy street was an opportunity for the city to begin counterbalancing the Confederate iconography that stands on Monument Avenue.

    And when the inevitable "What about celebrating white people? Huh? Why are you tearing down monuments to white people, and putting up monuments to black people? You're the racists!", needs to be met with a single statement.

    "Show me a white person who's deserving of honoring, that isn't an avowed racist, and we'll consider it."

    It's not the color of their skin that is causing monuments to white people to be torn down. It's the content of their character.

    Actually I think the correct response is to simply roll your eyes and sarcastically say "Yeah cause there's no roads or cities or countries named after white people"

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  • SelnerSelner Registered User regular
    here's a cool bit of news, for a change

    Richmond City Council renames Boulevard for Arthur Ashe
    The council voted 8-0-1 to change the name of the street from Boulevard to Arthur Ashe Boulevard, endorsing the plan put forth by 2nd District Councilwoman Kimberly Gray last fall. Councilwoman Reva Trammell abstained.

    Gray’s was the third attempt to rename the street for Ashe, the first black man to win Wimbledon, the U.S. Open and the Australian Open. He was barred from playing at the tennis courts on Byrd Park as a child growing up in Richmond. The courts were reserved for white players only.
    The timing of the vote was not lost on supporters of the idea who were present at Monday’s council meeting, or on Gray. She has pitched the name change as a demonstration of the progress the city has made toward racial reconciliation.

    On Monday, Gray said a vote in support of renaming the street for Ashe would show “the Richmond of today is not represented by the tawdry and buffoonish behavior and explanations we have witnessed over the last 10 days.”

    Supporters of the plan said honoring an African-American on the busy street was an opportunity for the city to begin counterbalancing the Confederate iconography that stands on Monument Avenue.

    Other VA, name-related news there's also the new dorm at James Madison University (located in Harrisonburg, VA), which is being named after a slave that Madison owned.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/james-madison-u-names-dormitory-after-founding-fathers-enslaved-servant/2019/02/08/3ee10718-2bbe-11e9-984d-9b8fba003e81_story.html?utm_term=.42b9abd37b22

    Jennings in a notable historical figure, with his memoir / book challenging the "Dolly Madison saved the Washington Portrait" story. His is a rather cool story, if you weren't familiar with him.

    Elvenshae
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