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[Superheroes] It's the end of the world as we know it

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    LanglyLangly Registered User regular
    I get shivers every time.

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    UnbrokenEvaUnbrokenEva HIGH ON THE WIRE BUT I WON'T TRIP ITRegistered User regular
    So Rorschach became the most popular character in Watchmen. I made him to be a bad example. But I have people come up to me in the street and saying: ‘I AM Rorschach. That is MY story’. And I’d be thinking: ‘Yeah, great. Could you just, like, keep away from me, never come anywhere near me again as long as I live?’

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    David_TDavid_T A fashion yes-man is no good to me. Copenhagen, DenmarkRegistered User regular
    Blankzilla wrote: »
    avengers-age-of-ultron-empire-subscriber-cover.jpg
    Yessss

    Built out of Vibranium from Wakanda and also mouth-speakers from Turkey, apparently?

    13iepvv6o8ip.png
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    SolarSolar Registered User regular
    Blankzilla wrote: »
    Solar enjoys a very specific version of the Guardians of the Galaxy and the version that has become popular and appealing to the masses is not that.

    To an extent, but I always knew the movie version was going to be different from the comics version (that is my problem with the current comics, though)

    And honestly, I have no problem with the vast majority of people on the camera in that movie. I think Chris Pratt does a good job, same with Zoe Saldana, I didn't really get behind Rocket but he wasn't bad just didn't blow me away, even Lee Pace does what he can with what he is given. The visuals of the movie are undeniably great, I love a lot of set design, costumes, special effects and so on.

    All of my problems (and I do have some pretty big problems) come from the script (plot and characterisation), the hit and miss humour, and the pacing. I think it's fair to say that if James Gunn hadn't made that movie but some hypothetical other person had, then I'd have really enjoyed it. Which makes it very disappointing of course, as such a big fan of the source material.

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    MaddocMaddoc I'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother? Registered User regular
    edited January 2015
    The MCU is not immune to the problem of killing off villains as soon as they are introduced instead of giving them time to grow and get interesting beyond introductions

    The one time they've really done that was with Loki and that worked splendidly, i dunno why they don't do it more

    If I have to level a complaint toward Captain America, this is what should have been done with Red Skull, but I don't know he was given the kind of screen time he needed in First Avenger or really just enough to do to make him catch the audience the same way that Loki did. Maybe it should still happen I mean his death was made super ambiguous, probably on purpose, but at this point would Hugo Weaving even want to come back to reprise the role, and what would you even do with him within the scope of what they have going on, etc.

    But seriously the Red Skull is not a one and done villain. That would be like if any Fantastic Four movie was good enough to warrant continuation, but they took out Doom in the first movie and he never comes back.

    Maddoc on
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    Rorshach KringleRorshach Kringle that crustache life Registered User regular
    he added bantery dialogue and jokes, and unless it was his idea to do all the skarsgaard stuff, i guarantee he was brought in for all the thor and loki buddy cops scenes, which genuinely were okay.

    the movie's plot is put into place when natalie portman stumbles upon the magic plot device (aether) that sets up malekith who's motives are basically "i'm the bad guy just because." the movie's story is never earned because it was an accident. this is after a big splashy backstory set to a voice-over narration so you know it is a big deal. again, you have a booming voice and someone, i think literally tripping into the story being set in motion.

    the stuff on asgard is the definition of wheels spinning as none of the asgardians but thor are ever given enough screen time to fully develop character. they are wacky sidekicks with not enough material to be wacky. also, that whole sif jealousy angle? there was absolutely no connection in the original thor to make that earned. it was just something to do to pad out the time before the mass effect elves attacked.

    i did glaze over the loki in jail bits. those were good. rene russo had an okay fight scene, but the absolutely abysmal take of thor being sad about it and flying away they used in the movie immediately undercut any and all emotion. thor's mom dies and thor just moves on.

    while all this is going on, we spend a large amount of time on earth with kat dennings and crazy stellan skarsgard and her intern having two subplots that really don't feed into anything going on. the comic relief bits melding with more side characters kind of helping save the day doesn't really work. it feels more like padding, as there really is not enough story here to justify a feature length film. did marcy and her intern need about five minutes of screen time? did the search for crazy stellan skarsgaard also need that much?

    loki's contributions to the plot afterwards were:

    break out of asgard and die. yes i know it was a trick and yes the ending promised more, but all he did in this movie was take part in two long action sequences, mope in prison, and mock thor for a bit

    then there is the big malekith fight on earth.


    that is the whole movie. the plan isn't explained. the characters basically serve as stepping stones to make it easier for thor to hit space elves with his magic hammer.

    i have blocked out a lot of the movie, but that's because it's not the first act that is slow, it's the first hour. the first half. nothing of note even remotely happens until the dark elves attack, and it points out just how weak the script and characterization is for everyone.

    i get that thor's name is in the title, but not even throwing a bone to anyone that isn't loki does not help a movie that loki is not in for a good majority.

    6vjsgrerts6r.png

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    JimothyJimothy Not in front of the fox he's with the owlRegistered User regular
    Maaan I was really pinning my hopes on Cecily Strong for Ghostbusters

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    LanglyLangly Registered User regular
    Odin: You are a vain, greedy, cruel boy!

    Thor: And you are an old man and a fool!

    Odin: Yes. I was a fool to think you were ready.

    Loki: Father...

    Odin: [to Loki] HEY!

    [to Thor] Thor Odinson, you have betrayed the express command of your king. Through your arrogance and stupidity, you have opened these peaceful realms and innocent lives to the horror and desolation of war! You are unworthy of these realms! You're unworthy of your TITLE! YOU ARE UNWORTHY!.. of the loved ones you have betrayed. I now take from you your power! In the name of my father and his father before, I, Odin Allfather, CAST YOU OUT! [banishes Thor to Earth]

    Whosoever holds this hammer, if he be worthy, shall possess the power of Thor. [throws Mjolnir to Earth]

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    LanglyLangly Registered User regular
    Fucking God damn

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    UnbrokenEvaUnbrokenEva HIGH ON THE WIRE BUT I WON'T TRIP ITRegistered User regular
    David_T wrote: »
    Blankzilla wrote: »
    avengers-age-of-ultron-empire-subscriber-cover.jpg
    Yessss

    Built out of Vibranium from Wakanda and also mouth-speakers from Turkey, apparently?

    I think you're misreading the perspective there, that's not a moon shape, that's the visible inside curve of a further inset bit

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    BalefuegoBalefuego Registered User regular
    Fearghaill wrote: »
    So Rorschach became the most popular character in Watchmen. I made him to be a bad example. But I have people come up to me in the street and saying: ‘I AM Rorschach. That is MY story’. And I’d be thinking: ‘Yeah, great. Could you just, like, keep away from me, never come anywhere near me again as long as I live?’

    this quote always reminds me of Trentsteel

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    LanglyLangly Registered User regular
    If anything those speakers are by Beats by Dre

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    masterofmetroidmasterofmetroid Have you ever looked at a world and seen it as a kind of challenge?Registered User regular
    Yeah i liked Hugo in the role but i kind of wish they had gotten someone less high profile if it meant they could use Red Skull more

    The idea of him showing back up and reacting to the Hydra/SHIELD situation sounds depressingly good

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    Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    edited January 2015
    Re: Whiplash

    He and Hammer needed a better rapport. As is, Vanko just runs circles around him while Hammer stands there gawking and sounding pathetic. I really think they should have had Vanko build the Dynamo suit earlier in the film, and start attacking Stark holdings; meanwhile as the value of Stark drops in the wake of Tony's shaky leadership and, you know, getting a bunch of their property blown the hell up, Hammer makes his financial moves to secure government contracts and start buying up Stark assets. The conflict between the two would stem from Vanko not wanting to give Hammer the complete details of the ARC reactor (since it was his father's invention and he holds value over it as a part of his family's legacy) so when the Mark 2 Iron man armor falls into Hammer's lap, he sees the opportunity to skip past Vanko, 'causing Vanko to turn on Hammer and gun straight for Tony.

    Undead Scottsman on
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    ChincymcchillaChincymcchilla Registered User regular
    he added bantery dialogue and jokes, and unless it was his idea to do all the skarsgaard stuff, i guarantee he was brought in for all the thor and loki buddy cops scenes, which genuinely were okay.

    the movie's plot is put into place when natalie portman stumbles upon the magic plot device (aether) that sets up malekith who's motives are basically "i'm the bad guy just because." the movie's story is never earned because it was an accident. this is after a big splashy backstory set to a voice-over narration so you know it is a big deal. again, you have a booming voice and someone, i think literally tripping into the story being set in motion.

    the stuff on asgard is the definition of wheels spinning as none of the asgardians but thor are ever given enough screen time to fully develop character. they are wacky sidekicks with not enough material to be wacky. also, that whole sif jealousy angle? there was absolutely no connection in the original thor to make that earned. it was just something to do to pad out the time before the mass effect elves attacked.

    i did glaze over the loki in jail bits. those were good. rene russo had an okay fight scene, but the absolutely abysmal take of thor being sad about it and flying away they used in the movie immediately undercut any and all emotion. thor's mom dies and thor just moves on.

    while all this is going on, we spend a large amount of time on earth with kat dennings and crazy stellan skarsgard and her intern having two subplots that really don't feed into anything going on. the comic relief bits melding with more side characters kind of helping save the day doesn't really work. it feels more like padding, as there really is not enough story here to justify a feature length film. did marcy and her intern need about five minutes of screen time? did the search for crazy stellan skarsgaard also need that much?

    loki's contributions to the plot afterwards were:

    break out of asgard and die. yes i know it was a trick and yes the ending promised more, but all he did in this movie was take part in two long action sequences, mope in prison, and mock thor for a bit

    then there is the big malekith fight on earth.


    that is the whole movie. the plan isn't explained. the characters basically serve as stepping stones to make it easier for thor to hit space elves with his magic hammer.

    i have blocked out a lot of the movie, but that's because it's not the first act that is slow, it's the first hour. the first half. nothing of note even remotely happens until the dark elves attack, and it points out just how weak the script and characterization is for everyone.

    i get that thor's name is in the title, but not even throwing a bone to anyone that isn't loki does not help a movie that loki is not in for a good majority.

    yes, this certainly is a version of the film twisted so you can be mad at it

    I have a podcast about Power Rangers:Teenagers With Attitude | TWA Facebook Group
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    KilroyKilroy timaeusTestified Registered User regular
    anthony hopkins owns every scene that he's in and it is the best

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    SolarSolar Registered User regular
    Like, if someone said to me "do you think that Chris Pratt did a good job in Guardians" then I would say "yes, absolutely"

    The humour that was there, he delivered really well. He owned his role. He really expressed his character's emotions, and he looked the part at all times.

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    Theodore FlooseveltTheodore Floosevelt proud parent of eight beautiful girls and shalmelo dorne (which is currently being ruled by a woman (awesome role model for my daughters)) #dornedadRegistered User regular
    rorschach i'm concerned by what you're seeing in thor 2

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    nightmarennynightmarenny Registered User regular
    Plot isn't the only thing that matters in movies.

    I've said this before but Thor 2 is certainly a movie that sacrifices its plot and villain for character work and I can't help but respect it for that.

    Quire.jpg
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    Rorshach KringleRorshach Kringle that crustache life Registered User regular
    Plot isn't the only thing that matters in movies.

    I've said this before but Thor 2 is certainly a movie that sacrifices its plot and villain for character work and I can't help but respect it for that.

    what character work?

    if you've admitted the villain is under characterized and that loki was great and only in the middle, this argument falls apart.

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    nightmarennynightmarenny Registered User regular
    Thor?

    Quire.jpg
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    SolarSolar Registered User regular
    Thor got loads of character in Thor 2

    He definitely felt like someone who had developed after the events of Thor, as a person, in that he had a humility about him which was very notable

    But at the same time he was still also notably the same Thor, and you see that in his flashes of bravado at times ("anyone else?")

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    Rorshach KringleRorshach Kringle that crustache life Registered User regular
    and how did thor change in the span of the movie?

    what did thor accomplish?

    what character growth did we see?

    he save the world? he's literally already done that.

    6vjsgrerts6r.png

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    Bluedude152Bluedude152 Registered User regular
    So now they have to up the danger every movie?

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    nightmarennynightmarenny Registered User regular
    The majority of the movies time is spent on Thor's relationship with his family and Jane as well his reluctance to rule and why that was.

    Quire.jpg
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    WeedLordVegetaWeedLordVegeta Registered User regular
    welcome back buttlord!

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    Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    thor learns that you should call your girlfriend back

    hold your head high soldier, it ain't over yet
    that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
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    BalefuegoBalefuego Registered User regular
    I'm v confused right now because I genuinely thought this guy was a Geebs joke account leftover from christmas

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    UnbrokenEvaUnbrokenEva HIGH ON THE WIRE BUT I WON'T TRIP ITRegistered User regular
    Dude, we're not interested in trying to convince you to like the movie, and we don't owe you any justification for liking it ourselves. You've clearly got an axe to grind though, so good luck with that.

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    SolarSolar Registered User regular
    edited January 2015
    and how did thor change in the span of the movie?

    what did thor accomplish?

    what character growth did we see?

    he save the world? he's literally already done that.

    I started to think about making a post to answer this

    but then I realised that actually it doesn't really matter what I say in the slightest

    you hate it, and you've made up your mind that you will continue to hate it

    And that's fine! I will always defend people's right to hate media, because hatred (for want of a better word, in this circumstance, regarding this topic) usually comes from caring if something is good or not

    But

    Let's not pretend that this is an actual discussion here come now

    Solar on
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    masterofmetroidmasterofmetroid Have you ever looked at a world and seen it as a kind of challenge?Registered User regular
    The moment that Thor see's through Loki in the cell is so fucking good

    It encapsulates what both of those characters have become absolutely prefectly

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    ElderlycrawfishElderlycrawfish Registered User regular
    I wasn't aware that character growth was dependent on saving the world and that it was a one-time buff only. Was it listed as a non-repeatable quest?

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    Bluedude152Bluedude152 Registered User regular
    I wasn't aware that character growth was dependent on saving the world and that it was a one-time buff only. Was it listed as a non-repeatable quest?

    Does this mean if I survive a car crash that I will never be at risk from dying from one again

    Brb

    p0a2ody6sqnt.jpg
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    Rorshach KringleRorshach Kringle that crustache life Registered User regular
    not at all. in fact, upping the danger is the formula for a bad sequel.

    in this movie there are no more personal stakes. nothing new is told about the character and his relationship to the danger. the character does not interact with anyone in any meaningful way, other than the aforementioned loki.

    the only change to the status quo is some people died, but other than the stinger at the end it is treated almost as a non-event. it happened, we move on, here's the next scene.

    the is no cohesion, no reason to care about anything that is going on. iron man 2, for all its faults, at least was a more in depth look at tony stark, the character.

    thor 2 is just hey here's thor fighting space elves now, i guess

    6vjsgrerts6r.png

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    JimothyJimothy Not in front of the fox he's with the owlRegistered User regular
    edited January 2015
    Finally got to watch the F4 trailer

    The trailer is actually okay, although I agree it seems like an unfortunate choice for these characters

    I find it funny that we're finally at a point in history where their origin is believable (a kid like Johnny is not going to be allowed on a government spacecraft, but now that NASA's plans have been put on hold, commercial spaceflight is in the near future and an overconfident Reed might actually get civilians to test his craft before he sold it to a private company), but instead they went with the "Negative Zone teleporter" origin

    Jimothy on
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    VeldrinVeldrin Sham bam bamina Registered User regular
    edited January 2015
    Thor demonstrated the ability to see through his brother's illusions.

    I think that point of character growth doesn't get nearly the amount of recognition that it should.


    edit: oh ok, this was mentioned already... maybe it does then

    Veldrin on
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    Bluedude152Bluedude152 Registered User regular
    Man if you think every movie in a series needs a new status quo you must really hate Taken and classic James Bond huh

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    Centipede DamascusCentipede Damascus Registered User regular
    and how did James Bond change in the span of the movie?

    what did James Bond accomplish?

    what character growth did we see?

    he save the world? he's literally already done that.
    and how did Indiana Jones change in the span of the movie?

    what did Indiana Jones accomplish?

    what character growth did we see?

    he save the world? he's literally already done that.

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    Rorshach KringleRorshach Kringle that crustache life Registered User regular
    Man if you think every movie in a series needs a new status quo you must really hate Taken and classic James Bond huh

    there are people that like the taken sequels?

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This discussion has been closed.