So technically all the people living on Babylon 4 did die.
Well, by that logic, Babylon 4 also gets credit for the deaths of all the Minbari who were stationed there in the first Shadow War, so it also gets credit for the deaths of a population that was technically already dead.
Which actually makes some timey-wimey sense to me, like some crazy fourth-dimensional coffin or something.
From JMS, via Patreon:
Babylon 5 Update
Have received the last studio notes on the pilot script, all very sensible, will be turning in the revision in a few days and then it goes to the network. They will likely have thoughts and questions, which is a standard part of the process. The town starts to shut down for winter hiatus around the second week of December, so we are still on target to get a firm yes/no on shooting the pilot by around the second week of January.
Meanwhile, work on B5-A continues apace. I get regular updates on production art and each iteration of the project looks better than the one before. Very excited to see this developing. I keep hoping that they will announce this thing soon, but I suspect they don't want to muddy the waters with the B5 pilot development. But suffice to say B5-A *is* happening, and is very far along the production process. In a way, it's a love letter to the original show and, in particular, the original fans.
As soon as the project does finally get announced, I'll feature some of the visuals here so patrons can see that stuff for the first time anywhere. Gotta say, what I'm seeing is just freaking beautiful.
I remember in the early internet days scrounging for new information on the mysterious WARLOCK class EA Destroyer. It eventually had a cameo in A Call to Arms, but man, that thing was like a Super Star Destroyer of early speculation.
It's mentioned a few times later as well. There's specifically a mention by I believe Franklin in the final season, wherein he compares the end of the Shadow War to the end of Cold War. Because in the B5 universe it's a former Russian nuke that is used in the attack.
Figures, a few episodes after I post that they mention again San Diego and explain it a bit more when discussing other surprise attacks.
****
My new complaint is Draal / The machine on the planet below kind of disappears except for use as boosting the power of the Voice of the Resistance where before it was considered extremely powerful. We've had two different actors play Draal already, maybe they had an issue.
***
Zathras is awesome.
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End of season four is absolutely wild, especially the very last episode giving a sneak peak of what happens five hundred and a thousand years in the future. Kind of depressing in a way, Straczynski! Definitely obvious they didn't expect a season V.
Not really too keen on the idea of Garibaldi's hologram nuking the world.
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Technically he didn't do it. He just showed the other side what was being planned. Sunshine laws, and all that.
When I watched it, I definitely felt like he was saying he did it, but in hindsight, something like "I took down your shields" is definitely interpretable as "I showed these people how to take down your shields".
It's not precise, but Garibaldi has always had an issue with literal truth, and it speaks to a level of ego (I may not have pulled the trigger, but I aimed the gun, fuck you) that is absolutely Garibaldi.
End of season four is absolutely wild, especially the very last episode giving a sneak peak of what happens five hundred and a thousand years in the future. Kind of depressing in a way, Straczynski! Definitely obvious they didn't expect a season V.
Not really too keen on the idea of Garibaldi's hologram nuking the world.
The S5 finale was actually filmed to end S4 and then they got a S5 so they filmed a new S4 finale with a view of the future.
B5 in general is pretty down on humanity's ability to overcome xenophobia.
+8
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BlackDragon480Bluster KerfuffleMaster of Windy ImportRegistered Userregular
End of season four is absolutely wild, especially the very last episode giving a sneak peak of what happens five hundred and a thousand years in the future. Kind of depressing in a way, Straczynski! Definitely obvious they didn't expect a season V.
Not really too keen on the idea of Garibaldi's hologram nuking the world.
B5 in general is pretty down on humanity's ability to overcome xenophobia.
Gee, I can't imagine why. I like Eddie Griffin's succinct rumination on why extraterrestrials have never formally visited Earth:
"We should go down and teach them the errors of their ways."
*other alien gives side-eye*
"They're killing each other over black and white, we're purple, what the fuck do you think they'll do to us?!"
No matter where you go...there you are. ~ Buckaroo Banzai
End of season four is absolutely wild, especially the very last episode giving a sneak peak of what happens five hundred and a thousand years in the future. Kind of depressing in a way, Straczynski! Definitely obvious they didn't expect a season V.
Not really too keen on the idea of Garibaldi's hologram nuking the world.
B5 in general is pretty down on humanity's ability to overcome xenophobia.
Gee, I can't imagine why. I like Eddie Griffin's succinct rumination on why extraterrestrials have never formally visited Earth:
"We should go down and teach them the errors of their ways."
*other alien gives side-eye*
"They're killing each other over black and white, we're purple, what the fuck do you think they'll do to us?!"
*other alien shows first alien ET, Starman, finale of Alf, etc*
*first alien starts looking up how to deploy the apocalypse weapon*
0
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BlackDragon480Bluster KerfuffleMaster of Windy ImportRegistered Userregular
End of season four is absolutely wild, especially the very last episode giving a sneak peak of what happens five hundred and a thousand years in the future. Kind of depressing in a way, Straczynski! Definitely obvious they didn't expect a season V.
Not really too keen on the idea of Garibaldi's hologram nuking the world.
B5 in general is pretty down on humanity's ability to overcome xenophobia.
Gee, I can't imagine why. I like Eddie Griffin's succinct rumination on why extraterrestrials have never formally visited Earth:
"We should go down and teach them the errors of their ways."
*other alien gives side-eye*
"They're killing each other over black and white, we're purple, what the fuck do you think they'll do to us?!"
*other alien shows first alien ET, Starman, finale of Alf, etc*
*first alien starts looking up how to deploy the apocalypse weapon*
Why you gotta do Starman dirty like that, it gave both:
"Apple pie good, Jenny Hayden."
and
"I've observed you operate this. Red means stop, green means go, yellow means go very fast."
No matter where you go...there you are. ~ Buckaroo Banzai
End of season four is absolutely wild, especially the very last episode giving a sneak peak of what happens five hundred and a thousand years in the future. Kind of depressing in a way, Straczynski! Definitely obvious they didn't expect a season V.
Not really too keen on the idea of Garibaldi's hologram nuking the world.
The S5 finale was actually filmed to end S4 and then they got a S5 so they filmed a new S4 finale with a view of the future.
B5 in general is pretty down on humanity's ability to overcome xenophobia.
End of season four is absolutely wild, especially the very last episode giving a sneak peak of what happens five hundred and a thousand years in the future. Kind of depressing in a way, Straczynski! Definitely obvious they didn't expect a season V.
Not really too keen on the idea of Garibaldi's hologram nuking the world.
The S5 finale was actually filmed to end S4 and then they got a S5 so they filmed a new S4 finale with a view of the future.
B5 in general is pretty down on humanity's ability to overcome xenophobia.
It felt very more of showing history is very cyclical, and while in the long course things improve over time, there are backslides and it isn't a straight line of progress. It isn't like other alien races didn't have issues during the course of the show either, especially the more advanced ones that should have had their shit together but absolutely did not.
End of season four is absolutely wild, especially the very last episode giving a sneak peak of what happens five hundred and a thousand years in the future. Kind of depressing in a way, Straczynski! Definitely obvious they didn't expect a season V.
Not really too keen on the idea of Garibaldi's hologram nuking the world.
The S5 finale was actually filmed to end S4 and then they got a S5 so they filmed a new S4 finale with a view of the future.
B5 in general is pretty down on humanity's ability to overcome xenophobia.
It felt very more of showing history is very cyclical, and while in the long course things improve over time, there are backslides and it isn't a straight line of progress. It isn't like other alien races didn't have issues during the course of the show either, especially the more advanced ones that should have had their shit together but absolutely did not.
The Centauri and Narn going (back) to war, Delenn calling out the Grey Council on their bullshit... the Vorlons and the Shadows, even, being revealed as abusive parents wanting the kids to take a side in their old argument and prove who is Right.
End of season four is absolutely wild, especially the very last episode giving a sneak peak of what happens five hundred and a thousand years in the future. Kind of depressing in a way, Straczynski! Definitely obvious they didn't expect a season V.
Not really too keen on the idea of Garibaldi's hologram nuking the world.
The S5 finale was actually filmed to end S4 and then they got a S5 so they filmed a new S4 finale with a view of the future.
B5 in general is pretty down on humanity's ability to overcome xenophobia.
It felt very more of showing history is very cyclical, and while in the long course things improve over time, there are backslides and it isn't a straight line of progress. It isn't like other alien races didn't have issues during the course of the show either, especially the more advanced ones that should have had their shit together but absolutely did not.
I don't think it really goes for cyclical history. The point imo is that humanity's xenophobic isolationist tendencies continue until we nuke ourselves into the middle ages and rebuild civilization without it. Less that history is a cycle and more that the influences of the Mimbari war don't go away till we literally erase them from our collective history.
End of season four is absolutely wild, especially the very last episode giving a sneak peak of what happens five hundred and a thousand years in the future. Kind of depressing in a way, Straczynski! Definitely obvious they didn't expect a season V.
Not really too keen on the idea of Garibaldi's hologram nuking the world.
B5 in general is pretty down on humanity's ability to overcome xenophobia.
Gee, I can't imagine why. I like Eddie Griffin's succinct rumination on why extraterrestrials have never formally visited Earth:
"We should go down and teach them the errors of their ways."
*other alien gives side-eye*
"They're killing each other over black and white, we're purple, what the fuck do you think they'll do to us?!"
*other alien shows first alien ET, Starman, finale of Alf, etc*
*first alien starts looking up how to deploy the apocalypse weapon*
Why you gotta do Starman dirty like that, it gave both:
"Apple pie good, Jenny Hayden."
and
"I've observed you operate this. Red means stop, green means go, yellow means go very fast."
Wasn't anything to do with the quality.
The three examples were about how we perceive that governments would react if an alien were found to be on Earth.
And the thing is, I think like most things, fiction undersells what reality would be.
There's a line from Starman that's stuck with me ever since I saw it. Other than the metal spheres, it's really the only thing I can remember.
"Alright, okay, screw morality. What the hell ever happened to good manners? We invited him here!"
End of season four is absolutely wild, especially the very last episode giving a sneak peak of what happens five hundred and a thousand years in the future. Kind of depressing in a way, Straczynski! Definitely obvious they didn't expect a season V.
Not really too keen on the idea of Garibaldi's hologram nuking the world.
The S5 finale was actually filmed to end S4 and then they got a S5 so they filmed a new S4 finale with a view of the future.
B5 in general is pretty down on humanity's ability to overcome xenophobia.
It felt very more of showing history is very cyclical, and while in the long course things improve over time, there are backslides and it isn't a straight line of progress. It isn't like other alien races didn't have issues during the course of the show either, especially the more advanced ones that should have had their shit together but absolutely did not.
I don't think it really goes for cyclical history. The point imo is that humanity's xenophobic isolationist tendencies continue until we nuke ourselves into the middle ages and rebuild civilization without it. Less that history is a cycle and more that the influences of the Mimbari war don't go away till we literally erase them from our collective history.
Also the Great Burn and its aftermath are a tiny tiny blip on the timescales that episode is looking at, anyway, so there's not a lot of room to make determinations as to the rest of that course given the episode ellides over about 995,000 years of it.
+1
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WeaverWho are you?What do you want?Registered Userregular
I was looking at some ship art earlier, love the Centauri ship designs, an updated version in the same style could be great.
+1
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daveNYCWhy universe hate Waspinator?Registered Userregular
The ship design in B5 is generally awesome. The Earthforce ships genuinely look like something that the human military would come up with. And every race has a unique look.
I think this is due to the setting, the background technology for FTL flight. In Star Trek, there is basically only one way that anyone can go FTL, warp. That takes warp nacelles, which are long design elements and have to be incorporated fore to aft into the design. This has pluses and minuses. The up side is that you can have the Borg show up with ships that don’t conform to that limitation and it makes them look sooooo much different. The down side is that pretty much everyone else has a ship design that is limited by having to incorporate the FTL engines. It doesn’t make them super similar, but it is a limiting element to the design. We can all look at at a Trek ship and go “ Yep, them’s the engines.”
B5 had hyperspace as their magic FTL system with the only limitation being the creation of the jump point. That gave them more freedom to design ships for various races since there wasn’t a limiting element that needed to be on every ship.
It’s an interesting bit of how world building can just happen and have a huge impact on what we’re watching.
Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
I mean, you can mount your warp coils inside the main hull, or flush with the outer surface, if you're confident you won't ever need to vent plasma in an inconvenient direction.
0
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Mr_Rose83 Blue Ridge Protects the HolyRegistered Userregular
Gotta say, if there’s one thing Enterprise did right, it was the Vulcan ships with their warp rings. That said it makes way less sense that the humans (Archer) are mad the Vulcans won’t just “give” them warp 5 drives; clearly the physical format is so different that interconverting the design elements and field geometry is non-trivial. But then not a lot of the plot of Enterprise makes sense unless you remember it’s actually all Riker’s favourite holodeck recreation of the events leading up to the incorporation of the Federation…
The ship design in B5 is generally awesome. The Earthforce ships genuinely look like something that the human military would come up with. And every race has a unique look.
I think this is due to the setting, the background technology for FTL flight. In Star Trek, there is basically only one way that anyone can go FTL, warp. That takes warp nacelles, which are long design elements and have to be incorporated fore to aft into the design. This has pluses and minuses. The up side is that you can have the Borg show up with ships that don’t conform to that limitation and it makes them look sooooo much different. The down side is that pretty much everyone else has a ship design that is limited by having to incorporate the FTL engines. It doesn’t make them super similar, but it is a limiting element to the design. We can all look at at a Trek ship and go “ Yep, them’s the engines.”
B5 had hyperspace as their magic FTL system with the only limitation being the creation of the jump point. That gave them more freedom to design ships for various races since there wasn’t a limiting element that needed to be on every ship.
It’s an interesting bit of how world building can just happen and have a huge impact on what we’re watching.
Earth Alliance ships are brutal and functional, Centauri have more artistry being an Imperial power concerned with appearances, Narn are mass produced and functional, Mimbari are all about organic shapes as are the Vorlons.
+7
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BlackDragon480Bluster KerfuffleMaster of Windy ImportRegistered Userregular
The ship design in B5 is generally awesome. The Earthforce ships genuinely look like something that the human military would come up with. And every race has a unique look.
I think this is due to the setting, the background technology for FTL flight. In Star Trek, there is basically only one way that anyone can go FTL, warp. That takes warp nacelles, which are long design elements and have to be incorporated fore to aft into the design. This has pluses and minuses. The up side is that you can have the Borg show up with ships that don’t conform to that limitation and it makes them look sooooo much different. The down side is that pretty much everyone else has a ship design that is limited by having to incorporate the FTL engines. It doesn’t make them super similar, but it is a limiting element to the design. We can all look at at a Trek ship and go “ Yep, them’s the engines.”
B5 had hyperspace as their magic FTL system with the only limitation being the creation of the jump point. That gave them more freedom to design ships for various races since there wasn’t a limiting element that needed to be on every ship.
It’s an interesting bit of how world building can just happen and have a huge impact on what we’re watching.
Earth Alliance ships are brutal and functional, Centauri have more artistry being an Imperial power concerned with appearances, Narn are mass produced and functional, Mimbari are all about organic shapes as are the Vorlons.
Drazi ships are butt ugly and only come in green and purple.
No matter where you go...there you are. ~ Buckaroo Banzai
The ship design in B5 is generally awesome. The Earthforce ships genuinely look like something that the human military would come up with. And every race has a unique look.
I think this is due to the setting, the background technology for FTL flight. In Star Trek, there is basically only one way that anyone can go FTL, warp. That takes warp nacelles, which are long design elements and have to be incorporated fore to aft into the design. This has pluses and minuses. The up side is that you can have the Borg show up with ships that don’t conform to that limitation and it makes them look sooooo much different. The down side is that pretty much everyone else has a ship design that is limited by having to incorporate the FTL engines. It doesn’t make them super similar, but it is a limiting element to the design. We can all look at at a Trek ship and go “ Yep, them’s the engines.”
B5 had hyperspace as their magic FTL system with the only limitation being the creation of the jump point. That gave them more freedom to design ships for various races since there wasn’t a limiting element that needed to be on every ship.
It’s an interesting bit of how world building can just happen and have a huge impact on what we’re watching.
Earth Alliance ships are brutal and functional, Centauri have more artistry being an Imperial power concerned with appearances, Narn are mass produced and functional, Mimbari are all about organic shapes as are the Vorlons.
Drazi ships are butt ugly and only come in green and purple.
Also the Great Burn and its aftermath are a tiny tiny blip on the timescales that episode is looking at, anyway, so there's not a lot of room to make determinations as to the rest of that course given the episode ellides over about 995,000 years of it.
I'll have to re-watch, but I'm pretty sure the portion dealing with the Burn is only 1000 years after B5.
XBL: Bizazedo
PSN: Bizazedo
CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
Also the Great Burn and its aftermath are a tiny tiny blip on the timescales that episode is looking at, anyway, so there's not a lot of room to make determinations as to the rest of that course given the episode ellides over about 995,000 years of it.
I'll have to re-watch, but I'm pretty sure the portion dealing with the Burn is only 1000 years after B5.
It is but the last part is like
a million years later and humans are now as advanced or or even more advanced than the vorlons were
Was not too keen on the human ships a million years from now. Basically looks like a flying lump. I didn't mind the vampire human encounter suits though, they were pretty funny.
The ship design in B5 is generally awesome. The Earthforce ships genuinely look like something that the human military would come up with. And every race has a unique look.
I think this is due to the setting, the background technology for FTL flight. In Star Trek, there is basically only one way that anyone can go FTL, warp. That takes warp nacelles, which are long design elements and have to be incorporated fore to aft into the design. This has pluses and minuses. The up side is that you can have the Borg show up with ships that don’t conform to that limitation and it makes them look sooooo much different. The down side is that pretty much everyone else has a ship design that is limited by having to incorporate the FTL engines. It doesn’t make them super similar, but it is a limiting element to the design. We can all look at at a Trek ship and go “ Yep, them’s the engines.”
B5 had hyperspace as their magic FTL system with the only limitation being the creation of the jump point. That gave them more freedom to design ships for various races since there wasn’t a limiting element that needed to be on every ship.
It’s an interesting bit of how world building can just happen and have a huge impact on what we’re watching.
Earth Alliance ships are brutal and functional, Centauri have more artistry being an Imperial power concerned with appearances, Narn are mass produced and functional, Mimbari are all about organic shapes as are the Vorlons.
Even the little things add to that worldbuilding - like Centauri / Minbari ships having artificial gravity, but Narn and human ships having to find ways around it (humans have their rotating sections, Narn are clearly strapped to their chairs in some of the ship scenes). I don't remember it ever being something that anyone makes a big deal of, but it's there in the background in a way that isn't ever referenced in Trek.
+8
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ShadowfireVermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered Userregular
The ship design in B5 is generally awesome. The Earthforce ships genuinely look like something that the human military would come up with. And every race has a unique look.
I think this is due to the setting, the background technology for FTL flight. In Star Trek, there is basically only one way that anyone can go FTL, warp. That takes warp nacelles, which are long design elements and have to be incorporated fore to aft into the design. This has pluses and minuses. The up side is that you can have the Borg show up with ships that don’t conform to that limitation and it makes them look sooooo much different. The down side is that pretty much everyone else has a ship design that is limited by having to incorporate the FTL engines. It doesn’t make them super similar, but it is a limiting element to the design. We can all look at at a Trek ship and go “ Yep, them’s the engines.”
B5 had hyperspace as their magic FTL system with the only limitation being the creation of the jump point. That gave them more freedom to design ships for various races since there wasn’t a limiting element that needed to be on every ship.
It’s an interesting bit of how world building can just happen and have a huge impact on what we’re watching.
Earth Alliance ships are brutal and functional, Centauri have more artistry being an Imperial power concerned with appearances, Narn are mass produced and functional, Mimbari are all about organic shapes as are the Vorlons.
Even the little things add to that worldbuilding - like Centauri / Minbari ships having artificial gravity, but Narn and human ships having to find ways around it (humans have their rotating sections, Narn are clearly strapped to their chairs in some of the ship scenes). I don't remember it ever being something that anyone makes a big deal of, but it's there in the background in a way that isn't ever referenced in Trek.
At the end of S4 Delenn makes artificial gravity part of the agreement for the ISA with Earth. And there are a few times they talk about the rotating sections of earth ships. Otherwise, yeah, not a lot of real acknowledgement.
The ship design in B5 is generally awesome. The Earthforce ships genuinely look like something that the human military would come up with. And every race has a unique look.
I think this is due to the setting, the background technology for FTL flight. In Star Trek, there is basically only one way that anyone can go FTL, warp. That takes warp nacelles, which are long design elements and have to be incorporated fore to aft into the design. This has pluses and minuses. The up side is that you can have the Borg show up with ships that don’t conform to that limitation and it makes them look sooooo much different. The down side is that pretty much everyone else has a ship design that is limited by having to incorporate the FTL engines. It doesn’t make them super similar, but it is a limiting element to the design. We can all look at at a Trek ship and go “ Yep, them’s the engines.”
B5 had hyperspace as their magic FTL system with the only limitation being the creation of the jump point. That gave them more freedom to design ships for various races since there wasn’t a limiting element that needed to be on every ship.
It’s an interesting bit of how world building can just happen and have a huge impact on what we’re watching.
Earth Alliance ships are brutal and functional, Centauri have more artistry being an Imperial power concerned with appearances, Narn are mass produced and functional, Mimbari are all about organic shapes as are the Vorlons.
Even the little things add to that worldbuilding - like Centauri / Minbari ships having artificial gravity, but Narn and human ships having to find ways around it (humans have their rotating sections, Narn are clearly strapped to their chairs in some of the ship scenes). I don't remember it ever being something that anyone makes a big deal of, but it's there in the background in a way that isn't ever referenced in Trek.
I don't remember if it was ever mentioned in the show, or if it's just something that came up through various fan sites or bulletin boards, but the Narn ships don't have artificial gravity, but they're designed in such a way that looks like they do from the outside so they look more technically advanced than they are.
So, while humanity has big spinny sections on their ship for simulated gravity, virtually advertising to everyone that humanity is barely out of the stone age when it comes to interstellar travel, Narns just make do with extra seatbelts and bouncing around a bit so they look more impressive.
Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
IIRC only the Minbari and Centauri had ready access to artificial grav at the start of the show, with perhaps a few of those random "old and powerful but keep to themselves" races that popped up here and there.
The ship design in B5 is generally awesome. The Earthforce ships genuinely look like something that the human military would come up with. And every race has a unique look.
I think this is due to the setting, the background technology for FTL flight. In Star Trek, there is basically only one way that anyone can go FTL, warp. That takes warp nacelles, which are long design elements and have to be incorporated fore to aft into the design. This has pluses and minuses. The up side is that you can have the Borg show up with ships that don’t conform to that limitation and it makes them look sooooo much different. The down side is that pretty much everyone else has a ship design that is limited by having to incorporate the FTL engines. It doesn’t make them super similar, but it is a limiting element to the design. We can all look at at a Trek ship and go “ Yep, them’s the engines.”
B5 had hyperspace as their magic FTL system with the only limitation being the creation of the jump point. That gave them more freedom to design ships for various races since there wasn’t a limiting element that needed to be on every ship.
It’s an interesting bit of how world building can just happen and have a huge impact on what we’re watching.
Earth Alliance ships are brutal and functional, Centauri have more artistry being an Imperial power concerned with appearances, Narn are mass produced and functional, Mimbari are all about organic shapes as are the Vorlons.
Even the little things add to that worldbuilding - like Centauri / Minbari ships having artificial gravity, but Narn and human ships having to find ways around it (humans have their rotating sections, Narn are clearly strapped to their chairs in some of the ship scenes). I don't remember it ever being something that anyone makes a big deal of, but it's there in the background in a way that isn't ever referenced in Trek.
I don't remember if it was ever mentioned in the show, or if it's just something that came up through various fan sites or bulletin boards, but the Narn ships don't have artificial gravity, but they're designed in such a way that looks like they do from the outside so they look more technically advanced than they are.
So, while humanity has big spinny sections on their ship for simulated gravity, virtually advertising to everyone that humanity is barely out of the stone age when it comes to interstellar travel, Narns just make do with extra seatbelts and bouncing around a bit so they look more impressive.
In truth, EA Omega destroyers are one of the heaviest hitting warships out of any of the younger races. They're all thrust, armor and firepower.
With reverse engineered Shadow tech they were able to destroy White Stars.
One thing the younger races' tech in B5 had pretty consistently was that anyone advanced enough to be starfaring at all had the ability to deposit a distinctly uncomfortable amount of energy into things they don't like. The solution wasn't to be able to withstand weapons fire, it was to avoid running into it in the first place, whether through range, aggressive maneuvering, or stealth. You don't see the younger races' technology shrugging off hits from each other at any point in the series; any time anyone hits anyone else they get hurt by it.
Part of what made the advanced Omegas scary was the fact that First Ones tech lets them get away from that pattern. They had weapons upgrades, sure, but there was a range of pain-dispensing abilities among the younger races over the whole show. What set them aside is the fact that - and they're unique among non-First Ones ships in this regard - they were also tough enough to be able to sit there and take it. That meant whoever they were trading blows with also had to sit there and take it until the Omegas lost the damage race, and if your hull doesn't have shifting animated patterns that means it's very definitely not designed for that.
The ship design in B5 is generally awesome. The Earthforce ships genuinely look like something that the human military would come up with. And every race has a unique look.
I think this is due to the setting, the background technology for FTL flight. In Star Trek, there is basically only one way that anyone can go FTL, warp. That takes warp nacelles, which are long design elements and have to be incorporated fore to aft into the design. This has pluses and minuses. The up side is that you can have the Borg show up with ships that don’t conform to that limitation and it makes them look sooooo much different. The down side is that pretty much everyone else has a ship design that is limited by having to incorporate the FTL engines. It doesn’t make them super similar, but it is a limiting element to the design. We can all look at at a Trek ship and go “ Yep, them’s the engines.”
B5 had hyperspace as their magic FTL system with the only limitation being the creation of the jump point. That gave them more freedom to design ships for various races since there wasn’t a limiting element that needed to be on every ship.
It’s an interesting bit of how world building can just happen and have a huge impact on what we’re watching.
Earth Alliance ships are brutal and functional, Centauri have more artistry being an Imperial power concerned with appearances, Narn are mass produced and functional, Mimbari are all about organic shapes as are the Vorlons.
Even the little things add to that worldbuilding - like Centauri / Minbari ships having artificial gravity, but Narn and human ships having to find ways around it (humans have their rotating sections, Narn are clearly strapped to their chairs in some of the ship scenes). I don't remember it ever being something that anyone makes a big deal of, but it's there in the background in a way that isn't ever referenced in Trek.
I don't remember if it was ever mentioned in the show, or if it's just something that came up through various fan sites or bulletin boards, but the Narn ships don't have artificial gravity, but they're designed in such a way that looks like they do from the outside so they look more technically advanced than they are.
So, while humanity has big spinny sections on their ship for simulated gravity, virtually advertising to everyone that humanity is barely out of the stone age when it comes to interstellar travel, Narns just make do with extra seatbelts and bouncing around a bit so they look more impressive.
In truth, EA Omega destroyers are one of the heaviest hitting warships out of any of the younger races. They're all thrust, armor and firepower.
With reverse engineereddeniably supplied Shadow tech they were able to destroy White Stars.
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Which actually makes some timey-wimey sense to me, like some crazy fourth-dimensional coffin or something.
"My friends, we've come home."
****
My new complaint is Draal / The machine on the planet below kind of disappears except for use as boosting the power of the Voice of the Resistance where before it was considered extremely powerful. We've had two different actors play Draal already, maybe they had an issue.
***
Zathras is awesome.
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They liked the guy a lot though and he played another character later.
Not really too keen on the idea of Garibaldi's hologram nuking the world.
PSN: Bizazedo
CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
When I watched it, I definitely felt like he was saying he did it, but in hindsight, something like "I took down your shields" is definitely interpretable as "I showed these people how to take down your shields".
It's not precise, but Garibaldi has always had an issue with literal truth, and it speaks to a level of ego (I may not have pulled the trigger, but I aimed the gun, fuck you) that is absolutely Garibaldi.
The S5 finale was actually filmed to end S4 and then they got a S5 so they filmed a new S4 finale with a view of the future.
B5 in general is pretty down on humanity's ability to overcome xenophobia.
Gee, I can't imagine why. I like Eddie Griffin's succinct rumination on why extraterrestrials have never formally visited Earth:
"We should go down and teach them the errors of their ways."
*other alien gives side-eye*
"They're killing each other over black and white, we're purple, what the fuck do you think they'll do to us?!"
~ Buckaroo Banzai
*other alien shows first alien ET, Starman, finale of Alf, etc*
*first alien starts looking up how to deploy the apocalypse weapon*
Why you gotta do Starman dirty like that, it gave both:
"Apple pie good, Jenny Hayden."
and
"I've observed you operate this. Red means stop, green means go, yellow means go very fast."
~ Buckaroo Banzai
Not just humanity. You sniveling purple Drazi.
It felt very more of showing history is very cyclical, and while in the long course things improve over time, there are backslides and it isn't a straight line of progress. It isn't like other alien races didn't have issues during the course of the show either, especially the more advanced ones that should have had their shit together but absolutely did not.
The Centauri and Narn going (back) to war, Delenn calling out the Grey Council on their bullshit... the Vorlons and the Shadows, even, being revealed as abusive parents wanting the kids to take a side in their old argument and prove who is Right.
I don't think it really goes for cyclical history. The point imo is that humanity's xenophobic isolationist tendencies continue until we nuke ourselves into the middle ages and rebuild civilization without it. Less that history is a cycle and more that the influences of the Mimbari war don't go away till we literally erase them from our collective history.
Wasn't anything to do with the quality.
The three examples were about how we perceive that governments would react if an alien were found to be on Earth.
And the thing is, I think like most things, fiction undersells what reality would be.
There's a line from Starman that's stuck with me ever since I saw it. Other than the metal spheres, it's really the only thing I can remember.
"Alright, okay, screw morality. What the hell ever happened to good manners? We invited him here!"
Also the Great Burn and its aftermath are a tiny tiny blip on the timescales that episode is looking at, anyway, so there's not a lot of room to make determinations as to the rest of that course given the episode ellides over about 995,000 years of it.
I think this is due to the setting, the background technology for FTL flight. In Star Trek, there is basically only one way that anyone can go FTL, warp. That takes warp nacelles, which are long design elements and have to be incorporated fore to aft into the design. This has pluses and minuses. The up side is that you can have the Borg show up with ships that don’t conform to that limitation and it makes them look sooooo much different. The down side is that pretty much everyone else has a ship design that is limited by having to incorporate the FTL engines. It doesn’t make them super similar, but it is a limiting element to the design. We can all look at at a Trek ship and go “ Yep, them’s the engines.”
B5 had hyperspace as their magic FTL system with the only limitation being the creation of the jump point. That gave them more freedom to design ships for various races since there wasn’t a limiting element that needed to be on every ship.
It’s an interesting bit of how world building can just happen and have a huge impact on what we’re watching.
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Earth Alliance ships are brutal and functional, Centauri have more artistry being an Imperial power concerned with appearances, Narn are mass produced and functional, Mimbari are all about organic shapes as are the Vorlons.
Drazi ships are butt ugly and only come in green and purple.
~ Buckaroo Banzai
What about the Vree though?
(spoiler for S1E15)
PSN: Bizazedo
CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
It is but the last part is like
PSN: Bizazedo
CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
Even the little things add to that worldbuilding - like Centauri / Minbari ships having artificial gravity, but Narn and human ships having to find ways around it (humans have their rotating sections, Narn are clearly strapped to their chairs in some of the ship scenes). I don't remember it ever being something that anyone makes a big deal of, but it's there in the background in a way that isn't ever referenced in Trek.
At the end of S4 Delenn makes artificial gravity part of the agreement for the ISA with Earth. And there are a few times they talk about the rotating sections of earth ships. Otherwise, yeah, not a lot of real acknowledgement.
I don't remember if it was ever mentioned in the show, or if it's just something that came up through various fan sites or bulletin boards, but the Narn ships don't have artificial gravity, but they're designed in such a way that looks like they do from the outside so they look more technically advanced than they are.
So, while humanity has big spinny sections on their ship for simulated gravity, virtually advertising to everyone that humanity is barely out of the stone age when it comes to interstellar travel, Narns just make do with extra seatbelts and bouncing around a bit so they look more impressive.
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In truth, EA Omega destroyers are one of the heaviest hitting warships out of any of the younger races. They're all thrust, armor and firepower.
With reverse engineered Shadow tech they were able to destroy White Stars.
Part of what made the advanced Omegas scary was the fact that First Ones tech lets them get away from that pattern. They had weapons upgrades, sure, but there was a range of pain-dispensing abilities among the younger races over the whole show. What set them aside is the fact that - and they're unique among non-First Ones ships in this regard - they were also tough enough to be able to sit there and take it. That meant whoever they were trading blows with also had to sit there and take it until the Omegas lost the damage race, and if your hull doesn't have shifting animated patterns that means it's very definitely not designed for that.
Fixed that for you.