So, I have a friend who wants to get into the Atelier games. They are not sure what they should start with, if they should start with the first, that kinda stuff. They have played Atelier Ayesha though.
Atelier Ayesha is the first of the Dusk series(currently a trilogy - Ayesha, Escha&Logy, and the upcoming Shallie). If they want to play the Arland ones, then the order is Rorona, Totori, and Meruru, Rorona+ post game. If they're playing the Plus versions they may want to start with Totori, since that has the oldest gameplay system. But otherwise, chronologically gives you the most benefit with the returning characters, and seeing how they've changed since they showed up in the previous games.
Ayesha was a great place to jump into Atelier. I'd suggest going straight on to Escha&Logy next, then they'll be ready for Shallie. The Arland series is nice, but the Dusk series has improved all the systems so much that it's kind of hard to go back to Arland. If they decide to, I would skip Rorona unless they have a Vita and can play Roro Plus. The original Rorona hasn't aged well.
Want to find me on a gaming service? I'm SwashbucklerXX everywhere.
I grabbed Dynasty Warriors 8 Empires, and now I'm wondering why I haven't played these games yet. Also, I think the Nemesis system from Shadow of Mordor would go fantastic with this games.
Lilnoobs on
+3
reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
A really smart aspect of the DOA costume selling business is that if you choose the random costume option when picking your character it can pick a costume you don't have access to, thus giving you a small sneak peak of what you could have just for a couple of bucks.
Dead or Alive Xtreme 2 had close to $400 worth of buyable costumes, so it's not like DOA fans aren't used to getting soaked for alternate skins.
Word choice accidental but I'm leaving it there.
0
StragintDo Not GiftAlways DeclinesRegistered Userregular
Started a second character, Frieza race that I want to focus Ki Blasts on since my Saiyan was melee. Only problem is the Frieza race clothes I can buy are almost entirely bonus strike and super strike and negative ki blast. I'm thinking I should maybe switch them and have my Saiyan be the Ki Blast character and my Frieza dude be the melee guy.
I wish armor wasn't a pain. My Frieza race character looks awesome though.
PSN: Reaper_Stragint, Steam: DoublePitstoChesty
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
Started a second character, Frieza race that I want to focus Ki Blasts on since my Saiyan was melee. Only problem is the Frieza race clothes I can buy are almost entirely bonus strike and super strike and negative ki blast. I'm thinking I should maybe switch them and have my Saiyan be the Ki Blast character and my Frieza dude be the melee guy.
I wish armor wasn't a pain. My Frieza race character looks awesome though.
So, I have a friend who wants to get into the Atelier games. They are not sure what they should start with, if they should start with the first, that kinda stuff. They have played Atelier Ayesha though.
Atelier Ayesha is the first of the Dusk series(currently a trilogy - Ayesha, Escha&Logy, and the upcoming Shallie). If they want to play the Arland ones, then the order is Rorona, Totori, and Meruru, Rorona+ post game. If they're playing the Plus versions they may want to start with Totori, since that has the oldest gameplay system. But otherwise, chronologically gives you the most benefit with the returning characters, and seeing how they've changed since they showed up in the previous games.
Ayesha was a great place to jump into Atelier. I'd suggest going straight on to Escha&Logy next, then they'll be ready for Shallie. The Arland series is nice, but the Dusk series has improved all the systems so much that it's kind of hard to go back to Arland. If they decide to, I would skip Rorona unless they have a Vita and can play Roro Plus. The original Rorona hasn't aged well.
Arland is a different set of system mechanics compared to the Dust/Twilight series.
In terms of synthesis, Arland emphasises more on ingredients with rare traits and then finding a way to duplicate it and stack them. Finding the right ingredients then fudging the synthesis levels to get the traits is important.
Dusk is more alike to the previous Atelier games where the ingredients themselves are the gate and their combinations and skill usage determines the items. Getting access to the higher tier of ingredients and then working out the puzzle to maximise their use is the key here.
For combat, I kinda feel that Ayesha was a little raw especially compared to the craziness of Escha&Logy and Shallie. Arland becomes a lot more traditional RPG style. The really really big innovation IMHO though is the moving of the combat items into an equippable system in Escha&Logy with fixed uses per outing. That changes things entirely since it makes resupplying for expeditions significantly less tedious and it creates a cap on the effectiveness of the alchemists since especially with the Arland games, you can load up with a tonne of items and annihilate everything especially when you have Homs/Chims and Wholesale resupplying you.
Certainly, combat has advanced a lot better with the Dusk series but for synthesis, I'd say they're different and about equal in terms of their depth.
Edit: Oh and with the Arland series, chaining end products which are ingredients for other ingredients ad nauseum is a very big part of the synthesis system. Working out exactly HOW to get a particular trait onto an item that cannot get that trait normally is one hell of a thrill. eg: Getting the Rainbow trait on Gino's ultimate weapons when his ultimate weapon does not use the material that Rainbow is found on.
Mana Khemia had an inheritance system with its equipment synthesis in a similar vein and it was great working on a piece of gear for half an hour to get it exactly how you want it. (Then equip it to Anna to turn her into a demi-god)
A point to take from this is that every localized PS3 and PSVita Alterier games are great. As a side note, the Mana Khemia games are great too, the first of which got a PSP port playable on the Vita.
Dead or Alive Xtreme 2 had close to $400 worth of buyable costumes, so it's not like DOA fans aren't used to getting soaked for alternate skins.
Word choice accidental but I'm leaving it there.
Actually those were all costumes already in the game.
The DLC just let you unlock sets of them for characters to skip the grind.
Which was a lot worse than just selling costumes, really. Because the game was designed in a way that made it agonizingly hard to complete costume collections for anyone.
I see nothing bad about consistently creating new costumes years into the life of a game. If anything it's refreshing to see the commitment and support.
The items they are selling are purely cosmetic. Plenty of games do this. It is not a big thing at all.
I paid $40 for the retail version of DOA5: Last Round, and I got plenty of game for my investment
Charging over two hundred dollars to get a "complete" set of game and DLC sets a bad precedent, yes.
This is the first console gen where we have seen a major push for free to play games and free to play style DLC for full priced games (look at games like The Last of Us with animations for sale, or Killzone with simple drone reskins with a ridiculous pricetag attached to them). It is the teetering edge of an incredibly slippery slope. "Let's do our best to try to nickel and dime consumers with extra content" is not something you want to encourage in an industry that is actively searching for new ways to shake you down.
This is an industry that slapped pricetags on the skin/texture packs for Minecraft for example, a game that has roughly ten billion freely downloadable texture packs on the PC.
I just don't think you should ever get to the point where there is four and a half times as much money in DLC listed on the store on launch day than it costs to buy the game the DLC is for in the first place.
Basically this is like if Riot put out a retail version of LoL that costs x dollars and comes with all the characters, some costumes for each, and then the rest of the costumes they've released over the years were purchasable.
The items they are selling are purely cosmetic. Plenty of games do this. It is not a big thing at all.
I paid $40 for the retail version of DOA5: Last Round, and I got plenty of game for my investment
Charging over two hundred dollars to get a "complete" set of game and DLC sets a bad precedent, yes.
This is the first console gen where we have seen a major push for free to play games and free to play style DLC for full priced games (look at games like The Last of Us with animations for sale, or Killzone with simple drone reskins with a ridiculous pricetag attached to them). It is the teetering edge of an incredibly slippery slope. "Let's do our best to try to nickel and dime consumers with extra content" is not something you want to encourage in an industry that is actively searching for new ways to shake you down.
This is an industry that slapped pricetags on the skin/texture packs for Minecraft for example, a game that has roughly ten billion freely downloadable texture packs on the PC.
I just don't think you should ever get to the point where there is four and a half times as much money in DLC listed on the store on launch day than it costs to buy the game the DLC is for in the first place.
Seems like a many expected preorder-Vegetas didn't get distributed. Wouldn't be surprised if it's eventually released separately, though.
Super Saiyan 4 Vegeta?
It's a code on an insert in the case, or do you mean the digital version?
Everyone has a price. Throw enough gold around and someone will risk disintegration.
0
Mego Thor"I say thee...NAY!"Registered Userregular
Trying to finish up Paper Trail for inFamous Second Son, but I feel like it's worn out its welcome. Wish I'd done it a little bit at a time while playing through the main game instead of saving it all for the end.
I want many of the things Definitely getting Helldivers, and the Sniper Elite zombie thing releasing tomorrow is a surprise to me but I want that too... White Night looks pretty great as well. Oreshika. OlliOlli2...
God DAMN
Everyone has a price. Throw enough gold around and someone will risk disintegration.
How much would it cost to get a "complete" set of hats in TF2? The only difference between that and DOA5 to me is that Valve are actually monetising the communities work in TF2.
Personally, I've no problem with there being a ton of cosmetic DLC, I just hate how shit the descriptions are. If you're going to charge the laughable prices they do, you need a description and pictures of every one of those bloody costumes.
The most offensive DLC related thing in the PS Store to me, is all the theme/avatar shovelware that litters every single update. The cavalcade of shit from the producers of those things should be worth fines.
Trying to finish up Paper Trail for inFamous Second Son, but I feel like it's worn out its welcome. Wish I'd done it a little bit at a time while playing through the main game instead of saving it all for the end.
If you don't enjoy the puzzles on the website for their own sake... it's not really worth it.
Trying to finish up Paper Trail for inFamous Second Son, but I feel like it's worn out its welcome. Wish I'd done it a little bit at a time while playing through the main game instead of saving it all for the end.
If you don't enjoy the puzzles on the website for their own sake... it's not really worth it.
I appreciate the effort they put into world-building with all the fake web-sites, but holy shit is there a bunch of it.
Seems like a many expected preorder-Vegetas didn't get distributed. Wouldn't be surprised if it's eventually released separately, though.
Super Saiyan 4 Vegeta?
It's a code on an insert in the case, or do you mean the digital version?
I see lots of people complaining that they didn't get their codes, or that stores didn't get enough to go around.
If it was a physical copy then the code is in the case.
Well, no, apparently. That's the point.
How can it not be when it is? Did the retailers open the cases and remove them?
Xenoverse is being annoying as fuck today. After each parallel quest it keeps telling me the connection went bad and sends me to the beginning menu.
It's easy to think of a hypothetical mechanism. For example, you could put codes in fewer than all boxes. Codes, especially distributed on paper, are prepared in certain numbers, and in order to not run out, you need a high enough upper guess.
I don't know how Bamco did it, though.
As long as DLC continues to be for cosmetic items and expansions rather than bits removed from the core experience, I'm ok with it.
The Javik DLC in Mass Effect 3 walked a really fine line though.
In Dragon Age 2 and ME3, Bioware locked core parts of the game's plot behind a day-one DLC character. DA 2 is actually worse, since there are major parts of DA2's overall story that literally make less sense than they already did without that DLC character's story to add perspective. That's very bad form, and the fans were right to complain.
+1
Mego Thor"I say thee...NAY!"Registered Userregular
Dragon Age Origins straight up had an NPC try to sell you a quest.
+1
StragintDo Not GiftAlways DeclinesRegistered Userregular
Seems like a many expected preorder-Vegetas didn't get distributed. Wouldn't be surprised if it's eventually released separately, though.
Super Saiyan 4 Vegeta?
It's a code on an insert in the case, or do you mean the digital version?
I see lots of people complaining that they didn't get their codes, or that stores didn't get enough to go around.
If it was a physical copy then the code is in the case.
Well, no, apparently. That's the point.
How can it not be when it is? Did the retailers open the cases and remove them?
Xenoverse is being annoying as fuck today. After each parallel quest it keeps telling me the connection went bad and sends me to the beginning menu.
It's easy to think of a hypothetical mechanism. For example, you could put codes in fewer than all boxes. Codes, especially distributed on paper, are prepared in certain numbers, and in order to not run out, you need a high enough upper guess.
I don't know how Bamco did it, though.
From what I've seen only the first day edition cases come with SSJ 4 Vegeta and the gold and silver Frieza soldier armor. Maybe people didn't get the first day edition.
PSN: Reaper_Stragint, Steam: DoublePitstoChesty
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
Dragon Age Origins straight up had an NPC try to sell you a quest.
Oh, that was bad, but at least the quest was a side story that just expanded the lore and gave you some nice stuff. Even in ME3, the character mostly existed to provide backstory and context about the events of the game.
In DA2, the DLC character was necessary for several scenes and conversations that were essential to understanding why things were happening. It really felt like they stripped out a core part of the game so they could sell it as additional content.
Posts
Supporting your game is a bad precedent?
The items they are selling are purely cosmetic. Plenty of games do this. It is not a big thing at all.
I paid $40 for the retail version of DOA5: Last Round, and I got plenty of game for my investment
Ayesha was a great place to jump into Atelier. I'd suggest going straight on to Escha&Logy next, then they'll be ready for Shallie. The Arland series is nice, but the Dusk series has improved all the systems so much that it's kind of hard to go back to Arland. If they decide to, I would skip Rorona unless they have a Vita and can play Roro Plus. The original Rorona hasn't aged well.
Dead or Alive Xtreme 2 had close to $400 worth of buyable costumes, so it's not like DOA fans aren't used to getting soaked for alternate skins.
Word choice accidental but I'm leaving it there.
I wish armor wasn't a pain. My Frieza race character looks awesome though.
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
Have him dress casual and name him Steve.
Arland is a different set of system mechanics compared to the Dust/Twilight series.
In terms of synthesis, Arland emphasises more on ingredients with rare traits and then finding a way to duplicate it and stack them. Finding the right ingredients then fudging the synthesis levels to get the traits is important.
Dusk is more alike to the previous Atelier games where the ingredients themselves are the gate and their combinations and skill usage determines the items. Getting access to the higher tier of ingredients and then working out the puzzle to maximise their use is the key here.
For combat, I kinda feel that Ayesha was a little raw especially compared to the craziness of Escha&Logy and Shallie. Arland becomes a lot more traditional RPG style. The really really big innovation IMHO though is the moving of the combat items into an equippable system in Escha&Logy with fixed uses per outing. That changes things entirely since it makes resupplying for expeditions significantly less tedious and it creates a cap on the effectiveness of the alchemists since especially with the Arland games, you can load up with a tonne of items and annihilate everything especially when you have Homs/Chims and Wholesale resupplying you.
Certainly, combat has advanced a lot better with the Dusk series but for synthesis, I'd say they're different and about equal in terms of their depth.
Edit: Oh and with the Arland series, chaining end products which are ingredients for other ingredients ad nauseum is a very big part of the synthesis system. Working out exactly HOW to get a particular trait onto an item that cannot get that trait normally is one hell of a thrill. eg: Getting the Rainbow trait on Gino's ultimate weapons when his ultimate weapon does not use the material that Rainbow is found on.
Mana Khemia had an inheritance system with its equipment synthesis in a similar vein and it was great working on a piece of gear for half an hour to get it exactly how you want it. (Then equip it to Anna to turn her into a demi-god)
// Switch: SW-5306-0651-6424 //
Actually those were all costumes already in the game.
The DLC just let you unlock sets of them for characters to skip the grind.
Which was a lot worse than just selling costumes, really. Because the game was designed in a way that made it agonizingly hard to complete costume collections for anyone.
My Let's Play Channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UC2go70QLfwGq-hW4nvUqmog
How?
I see nothing bad about consistently creating new costumes years into the life of a game. If anything it's refreshing to see the commitment and support.
My Let's Play Channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UC2go70QLfwGq-hW4nvUqmog
Charging over two hundred dollars to get a "complete" set of game and DLC sets a bad precedent, yes.
This is the first console gen where we have seen a major push for free to play games and free to play style DLC for full priced games (look at games like The Last of Us with animations for sale, or Killzone with simple drone reskins with a ridiculous pricetag attached to them). It is the teetering edge of an incredibly slippery slope. "Let's do our best to try to nickel and dime consumers with extra content" is not something you want to encourage in an industry that is actively searching for new ways to shake you down.
This is an industry that slapped pricetags on the skin/texture packs for Minecraft for example, a game that has roughly ten billion freely downloadable texture packs on the PC.
I just don't think you should ever get to the point where there is four and a half times as much money in DLC listed on the store on launch day than it costs to buy the game the DLC is for in the first place.
My Let's Play Channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UC2go70QLfwGq-hW4nvUqmog
Which I would have no problem with.
My Let's Play Channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UC2go70QLfwGq-hW4nvUqmog
YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES SO EXCITE
Alright
I respectfully disagree
Super Saiyan 4 Vegeta?
It's a code on an insert in the case, or do you mean the digital version?
I see lots of people complaining that they didn't get their codes, or that stores didn't get enough to go around.
I want many of the things
God DAMN
Odd. The copy I got from Amazon just had the code sealed inside the case.
If it was a physical copy then the code is in the case.
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
Personally, I've no problem with there being a ton of cosmetic DLC, I just hate how shit the descriptions are. If you're going to charge the laughable prices they do, you need a description and pictures of every one of those bloody costumes.
The most offensive DLC related thing in the PS Store to me, is all the theme/avatar shovelware that litters every single update. The cavalcade of shit from the producers of those things should be worth fines.
If you don't enjoy the puzzles on the website for their own sake... it's not really worth it.
Well, no, apparently. That's the point.
How can it not be when it is? Did the retailers open the cases and remove them?
Xenoverse is being annoying as fuck today. After each parallel quest it keeps telling me the connection went bad and sends me to the beginning menu.
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
The Javik DLC in Mass Effect 3 walked a really fine line though.
PSN: Beltaine-77 | Steam: beltane77 | Battle.net BadHaggis#1433
I appreciate the effort they put into world-building with all the fake web-sites, but holy shit is there a bunch of it.
It's easy to think of a hypothetical mechanism. For example, you could put codes in fewer than all boxes. Codes, especially distributed on paper, are prepared in certain numbers, and in order to not run out, you need a high enough upper guess.
I don't know how Bamco did it, though.
In Dragon Age 2 and ME3, Bioware locked core parts of the game's plot behind a day-one DLC character. DA 2 is actually worse, since there are major parts of DA2's overall story that literally make less sense than they already did without that DLC character's story to add perspective. That's very bad form, and the fans were right to complain.
From what I've seen only the first day edition cases come with SSJ 4 Vegeta and the gold and silver Frieza soldier armor. Maybe people didn't get the first day edition.
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
Oh, that was bad, but at least the quest was a side story that just expanded the lore and gave you some nice stuff. Even in ME3, the character mostly existed to provide backstory and context about the events of the game.
In DA2, the DLC character was necessary for several scenes and conversations that were essential to understanding why things were happening. It really felt like they stripped out a core part of the game so they could sell it as additional content.
The only DLC character in DA2 was Sebastion.
And I don't recall him mattering one tiny bit.
Also Javik was not part of the core plot of ME3 either.
My Let's Play Channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UC2go70QLfwGq-hW4nvUqmog
This is the dumbest.