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[Metroid] The series so dead they resurrected it twice!

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  • MechMantisMechMantis Registered User regular
    You can even see the visor going flying off to the upper left. The suit is literally coming apart at the seams.

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  • MNC DoverMNC Dover Game Designer/Stay-at-home Dad Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    What the heck is the hard light suit? In fact, never mind, I don't think I want to know.

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  • H3KnucklesH3Knuckles Jack of all interests... ...master of noneRegistered User regular
    edited June 2
    MNC Dover wrote: »
    What the heck is the hard light suit? In fact, never mind, I don't think I want to know.

    Basically, they retconned how the power suit works, so that instead of being mechanized armor like some far-future Iron Man kind of thing, now it's supposed to be projected light harnessed into a physically tangible form around Samus like a vehicle inside a holodeck simulation. That, or it's recreating matter from raw energy each time she activates it, like a food replicator (sort of like digistruct tech in Borderlands).

    The upshot is she can conjure the suit around her whenever she wants (like a sentai or magical girl doing their transformation), downside is apparently cold-cocking her causes it to disappear leaving her completely helpless.

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  • HenroidHenroid Radio Demon Internet HellRegistered User regular
    Well the fade to white was the screen itself fading to white entirely, not just Samus.

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  • HenroidHenroid Radio Demon Internet HellRegistered User regular
    H3Knuckles wrote: »
    MNC Dover wrote: »
    What the heck is the hard light suit? In fact, never mind, I don't think I want to know.

    Basically, they retconned how the power suit works, so that instead of being mechanized armor like some far-future Iron Man kind of thing, now it's supposed to be projected light harnessed into a physically tangible form around Samus like a vehicle inside a holodeck simulation. That, or it's recreating matter from raw energy each time she activates it, like a food replicator (sort of like digistruct tech in Borderlands).

    The upshot is she can conjure the suit around her whenever she wants (like a sentai or magical girl doing their transformation), downside is apparently cold-cocking her causes it to disappear leaving her completely helpless.
    For what it's worth, hard light as a technology is a theoretical thing (who knows when it will be possible) and gets used in sci-fi quite a bit. I think the Halo series is one of the few settings to try and explain it a little more concretely than anything else. Any time you see a bridge made of light, it's hard light tech.

    Also for Iron Man, his suit moved on to nano tech. In the comics it's stored in his blood. In the movies they had him store it inside the hole in his chest.

    Thematically though, I still prefer practical mechanical suits. Same goes for Samus. When the suit was something she could just will on / off, it kinda lost something. She's still cool as fuck.

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  • BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    edited June 2
    H3Knuckles wrote: »
    MNC Dover wrote: »
    What the heck is the hard light suit? In fact, never mind, I don't think I want to know.

    Basically, they retconned how the power suit works, so that instead of being mechanized armor like some far-future Iron Man kind of thing, now it's supposed to be projected light harnessed into a physically tangible form around Samus like a vehicle inside a holodeck simulation. That, or it's recreating matter from raw energy each time she activates it, like a food replicator (sort of like digistruct tech in Borderlands).

    The upshot is she can conjure the suit around her whenever she wants (like a sentai or magical girl doing their transformation), downside is apparently cold-cocking her causes it to disappear leaving her completely helpless.

    No no no, knocking her out doesn't do it, she didn't lose her suit at the start of Fusion. Being tapped on the back of the helmet by Adam specifically is what does it. On account of how big and strong he is, Samus gets all emotional and weak, as all women are, so her suit falls off at daddy Adam's command.


    God, just kill me. Or better yet, invent a time machine and stop Sakamoto before he can write that dumpster inferno.

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  • HenroidHenroid Radio Demon Internet HellRegistered User regular
    edited June 2
    H3Knuckles wrote: »
    MNC Dover wrote: »
    What the heck is the hard light suit? In fact, never mind, I don't think I want to know.

    Basically, they retconned how the power suit works, so that instead of being mechanized armor like some far-future Iron Man kind of thing, now it's supposed to be projected light harnessed into a physically tangible form around Samus like a vehicle inside a holodeck simulation. That, or it's recreating matter from raw energy each time she activates it, like a food replicator (sort of like digistruct tech in Borderlands).

    The upshot is she can conjure the suit around her whenever she wants (like a sentai or magical girl doing their transformation), downside is apparently cold-cocking her causes it to disappear leaving her completely helpless.

    No no no, knocking her out doesn't do it, she didn't lose her suit at the start of Fusion. Being tapped on the back of the helmet by Adam specifically is what does it. On account of how big and strong he is, Samus gets all emotional and weak, as all women are, so her suit falls off at daddy Adam's command.


    God, just kill me. Or better yet, invent a time machine and kill Sakamoto before he can write that dumpster inferno.
    There was an article (recently deleted, I'm sad) about Other M that talked about the game's... fucked-up-ness from an angle nobody else was; that it was glorifying abusive relationships. I'll just stick to the relevant point, RE: when Samus got shot in the back by Adam and somehow the suit came undone. The article pointed out there was reason to suspect Samus knew he was there the whole time and allowed Adam to do that to her and she was totally down with it. Reeeeeeaaaaaaalllllllllly fucked up on the director's part and that's just the one aspect.

    Bonus points; after Samus loses contact with Adam she says at one point "any objections, Adam?" sarcastically when enabling one of her powers. Then the next time Adam is mentioned / shows up, he shoots her in the back, like a direct response to her talking back to him.

    aaaaaaaaaaaaa

    Edit - A streamer I watch played the game yesterday, this shit is super fresh in my mind.

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  • BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    god the part where adam makes samus traverse the superheated lava zone without allowing her to turn on the suit upgrade that protects you from ambient heat damage is just ripe with symbolism isn't it

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  • H3KnucklesH3Knuckles Jack of all interests... ...master of noneRegistered User regular
    edited June 2
    Henroid wrote: »
    H3Knuckles wrote: »
    MNC Dover wrote: »
    What the heck is the hard light suit? In fact, never mind, I don't think I want to know.

    Basically, they retconned how the power suit works, so that instead of being mechanized armor like some far-future Iron Man kind of thing, now it's supposed to be projected light harnessed into a physically tangible form around Samus like a vehicle inside a holodeck simulation. That, or it's recreating matter from raw energy each time she activates it, like a food replicator (or sort of like digistruct tech in Borderlands).

    The upshot is she can conjure the suit around her whenever she wants (like a sentai or magical girl doing their transformation), downside is apparently cold-cocking her causes it to disappear leaving her completely helpless.
    For what it's worth, hard light as a technology is a theoretical thing (who knows when it will be possible) and gets used in sci-fi quite a bit. I think the Halo series is one of the few settings to try and explain it a little more concretely than anything else. Any time you see a bridge made of light, it's hard light tech.

    Also for Iron Man, his suit moved on to nano tech. In the comics it's stored in his blood. In the movies they had him store it inside the hole in his chest.

    Thematically though, I still prefer practical mechanical suits. Same goes for Samus. When the suit was something she could just will on / off, it kinda lost something. She's still cool as fuck.

    I'm familiar with hard light's use in science fiction, but Dover's post seemed to indicate that he wasn't and I figured I'd just try to give a brass tacks description.

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  • BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    edited June 2
    Leaving aside Other M, as everyone should, my headcanon for the way the suit works now is that it's a physical suit that is replicator-style assembled in place around her at a distance out of energy by advanced chozo tech she keeps onboard her ship, and once it's on she can manually physically take parts off if she chooses like taking off the helmet, or she can convert the whole thing back into energy and store it in her ship. Upgrade items are blueprints for the replicator that it then reconfigures the suit with.

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  • HenroidHenroid Radio Demon Internet HellRegistered User regular
    H3Knuckles wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    H3Knuckles wrote: »
    MNC Dover wrote: »
    What the heck is the hard light suit? In fact, never mind, I don't think I want to know.

    Basically, they retconned how the power suit works, so that instead of being mechanized armor like some far-future Iron Man kind of thing, now it's supposed to be projected light harnessed into a physically tangible form around Samus like a vehicle inside a holodeck simulation. That, or it's recreating matter from raw energy each time she activates it, like a food replicator (or sort of like digistruct tech in Borderlands).

    The upshot is she can conjure the suit around her whenever she wants (like a sentai or magical girl doing their transformation), downside is apparently cold-cocking her causes it to disappear leaving her completely helpless.
    For what it's worth, hard light as a technology is a theoretical thing (who knows when it will be possible) and gets used in sci-fi quite a bit. I think the Halo series is one of the few settings to try and explain it a little more concretely than anything else. Any time you see a bridge made of light, it's hard light tech.

    Also for Iron Man, his suit moved on to nano tech. In the comics it's stored in his blood. In the movies they had him store it inside the hole in his chest.

    Thematically though, I still prefer practical mechanical suits. Same goes for Samus. When the suit was something she could just will on / off, it kinda lost something. She's still cool as fuck.

    I'm familiar with hard light's use in science fiction, but Dover's post seemed to indicate that he wasn't and I figured I'd just try to give a brass tacks description.
    I was meaning to build on your post rather than come across as correcting, sorry about that.

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  • MNC DoverMNC Dover Game Designer/Stay-at-home Dad Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    H3Knuckles wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    H3Knuckles wrote: »
    MNC Dover wrote: »
    What the heck is the hard light suit? In fact, never mind, I don't think I want to know.

    Basically, they retconned how the power suit works, so that instead of being mechanized armor like some far-future Iron Man kind of thing, now it's supposed to be projected light harnessed into a physically tangible form around Samus like a vehicle inside a holodeck simulation. That, or it's recreating matter from raw energy each time she activates it, like a food replicator (or sort of like digistruct tech in Borderlands).

    The upshot is she can conjure the suit around her whenever she wants (like a sentai or magical girl doing their transformation), downside is apparently cold-cocking her causes it to disappear leaving her completely helpless.
    For what it's worth, hard light as a technology is a theoretical thing (who knows when it will be possible) and gets used in sci-fi quite a bit. I think the Halo series is one of the few settings to try and explain it a little more concretely than anything else. Any time you see a bridge made of light, it's hard light tech.

    Also for Iron Man, his suit moved on to nano tech. In the comics it's stored in his blood. In the movies they had him store it inside the hole in his chest.

    Thematically though, I still prefer practical mechanical suits. Same goes for Samus. When the suit was something she could just will on / off, it kinda lost something. She's still cool as fuck.

    I'm familiar with hard light's use in science fiction, but Dover's post seemed to indicate that he wasn't and I figured I'd just try to give a brass tacks description.

    Yeah sorry, my first time ever hearing about it. And I tried to forget about Other M as best I could. Completely forgot she had a transformation sequence in it.

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  • RidleySariaRidleySaria AnaheimRegistered User regular
    As much as I want activity in the Metroid thread, discussions about that game never go anywhere good. I wish Nintendo would hurry up and give us more to chew on.

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  • HenroidHenroid Radio Demon Internet HellRegistered User regular
    I can agree to that. We're just talking about her suit's canonical changes anyway.

    Oh on a different note, my roomie apparently owns Metroid Prime. She even has a functioning Gamecube. Problem is, no memory card. Still, I have a way to play it if I really wanted to like, speedrun it.

    ... Which I did a few times a few years ago. Nothing recorded / broadcast but not anywhere near as good as speedrunners are anyway.

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  • MNC DoverMNC Dover Game Designer/Stay-at-home Dad Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    You can buy GC memory cards for pretty cheap. I'd do it if I didn't already own one.

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  • HenroidHenroid Radio Demon Internet HellRegistered User regular
    That takes effort though.

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  • Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    I will admit that the MP trilogy would fit the Switch so well and, like the pile of Zelda games Nintendo continues to ignore, I just don't understand why in the world it hasn't been ported by now or at least announced as getting one. The hardware is handily up to the task, and it would be dead easy to have both the pointer controls and joystick controls.

    The Switch is finally a portable system sufficiently better than my phone or more portable than my laptop for playing old good games, and yet it's stubbornly the Nintendo system that's taken a huge step back in BC content.

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  • shoeboxjeddyshoeboxjeddy Registered User regular
    Henroid wrote: »
    That takes effort though.

    Navigate the device you are posting with to the online storefront you prefer and you can have this sorted in 2 minutes + shipping.

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  • DrascinDrascin Registered User regular
    H3Knuckles wrote: »
    MNC Dover wrote: »
    What the heck is the hard light suit? In fact, never mind, I don't think I want to know.

    Basically, they retconned how the power suit works, so that instead of being mechanized armor like some far-future Iron Man kind of thing, now it's supposed to be projected light harnessed into a physically tangible form around Samus like a vehicle inside a holodeck simulation. That, or it's recreating matter from raw energy each time she activates it, like a food replicator (sort of like digistruct tech in Borderlands).

    The upshot is she can conjure the suit around her whenever she wants (like a sentai or magical girl doing their transformation), downside is apparently cold-cocking her causes it to disappear leaving her completely helpless.

    I mean, I'm okay with Kamen Rider Varia Suit, that's really not an issue and honestly it feels to me like it works super well with the whole mystic supertech angle the Chozo had. It's cool to have Samus's suit be a part of her that can't really be taken away, she can just henshin whenever.

    The issue is more the "and suddenly it deactivates for no raisin". Like when you shoot a Kamen Rider his armor doesn't suddenly disappear. But since that only happens in one game, and that game already conflicts with literally every other game in the series, it's easily ignored.

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  • OptyOpty Registered User regular
    Yeah, Power Rangers summon their suits out of nowhere but they're still able to take off their helmets

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  • King RiptorKing Riptor Registered User regular
    Opty wrote: »
    Yeah, Power Rangers summon their suits out of nowhere but they're still able to take off their helmets

    I mean the helmet doesn't like fly away its still on her person well within the assumed hologram radius

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  • LBD_NytetraynLBD_Nytetrayn TorontoRegistered User regular
    I mean, whatever the specs are, she's been doing it henshin-style from the very beginning:

    qjWUWdm.gif1edr1cF.gif0g9jaoG.gifuWt4fLV.gif
  • King RiptorKing Riptor Registered User regular
    I think we can all agree at least that the math checks out and questioning it will anger the math

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  • homogenizedhomogenized Registered User regular
    I mean, whatever the specs are, she's been doing it henshin-style from the very beginning:

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5-yYY2TTbFM
    I just assumed they didn't have the time/resources/skill/will to make a "taking off suit" animation, or "take off helmet" and "turn back and lower head to arm in shame" animations for that matter, it was early days. Even in Super Metroid, the ending has the suit/helmet fade out in the corresponding endings.

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  • Curly_BraceCurly_Brace Robot Girl Mimiga VillageRegistered User regular
    Now I feel we need to discuss how Chozo technology interfaces with the Morphing Grid. Or what if... the Chozo made the Morphing Grid?!?

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  • EnlongEnlong Registered User regular
    I imagine Samus was a teenager with attitude during her training.

    YggiDee wrote: »
    Having teenaged RPG leads is really cool until you stop being a teenager yourself. Do you remember being seventeen? You're a dumbass at seventeen! I wanna be saved by the guy who's twenty-seven. He's at least payed taxes. He knows how to do shit. He can drive.
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  • SyphonBlueSyphonBlue Registered User regular
    Enlong wrote: »
    I imagine Samus was a teenager with attitude during her training.

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  • JusticeforPlutoJusticeforPluto Total Goober Registered User regular
    The other thing that makes me think physical is in Prime 3 the Federation modifies it.

    Plus in Zero Mission she loses her suit?

    We're probably putting more thought into this than Nintendo ever did.

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  • EnlongEnlong Registered User regular
    In Zero Mission she’s seen making it vanish before her ship gets attacked.

    YggiDee wrote: »
    Having teenaged RPG leads is really cool until you stop being a teenager yourself. Do you remember being seventeen? You're a dumbass at seventeen! I wanna be saved by the guy who's twenty-seven. He's at least payed taxes. He knows how to do shit. He can drive.
  • AistanAistan Tiny Bat Registered User regular
    And then for some reason can't just conjure it up again. So it's a hard light suit that she can only take on/off in certain locations?

    All these answers are dumber than just having it be a normal mech suit, Nintendo.

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  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    Yeah. Actual physical power armor that can warp on/off is still what makes the most sense.

    Morph ball of course is magic still.

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  • AistanAistan Tiny Bat Registered User regular
    Morph ball being magic is worth it for the space pirate logs trying to duplicate the process.

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  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    edited June 2
    I figure it's related to how the suit warps in/out to begin with - Samus is just half-warped. Plus, telesuit explains how it quickly assimilates upgrades if it can warp stuff around to reconfigure and integrate them.

    Most importantly, hard light wouldn't be zapped at the start of prime 1 to lose upgrades, because it wouldn't be conductive that way. No idea on ing theft. And it makes no sense for fusion at all.

    Edit: Most importantly? Fusion is Metroid 4, and thus wins on conflicts of canon. Other M isn't compatible with it (Samus discovering Metroid breeding in 4 for the first time), ergo Other M can't be canon.

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  • BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    I assume the reason she couldn't put the suit back on in that sequence of zero mission was because she dematerialized it and then her ship was destroyed and that was where she was keeping the replicator tech.

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  • WotanAnubisWotanAnubis Registered User regular
    I think we're all missing the really important question here.

    Should Metroid Pinball be considered part of the Metroid canon?

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  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Registered User regular
    Man, I'm hoping the long-rumored Metroid Prime collection shows up at E3.

    Not hopeful we'll get anything Prime 4 since Nintendo announced a while back they're rebooting development.

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  • rahkeesh2000rahkeesh2000 Registered User regular
    edited June 2
    Aistan wrote: »
    And then for some reason can't just conjure it up again. So it's a hard light suit that she can only take on/off in certain locations?

    All these answers are dumber than just having it be a normal mech suit, Nintendo.

    There's two small skin-colored blotches shown on the back of her zero suit in the crash cutscene, I assumed this was meant to show that the zero suit itself was damaged, which could also explain the failure of the power suit if the zero suit is involved in projecting hard light.

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  • NeveronNeveron SwedenRegistered User regular
    For what it's worth, Other M wasn't the one that retconned the suit - that dubious honor belongs to the Metroid: Zero Mission manga, where IIRC it's basically magic chozotech armor that runs on willpower. Other M just took that idea and paired it with its awful characterization of Samus to try to create drama.

    On a surface level it kind of makes sense: if your Green Lantern ring runs on the protagonist's willpower, why not have an arc where the protagonist cannot summon up their willpower and thus the ring is useless? It's just that it entirely falls apart when they use it as part of an extended character assassination of Samus friggin' Aran.

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  • CaedwyrCaedwyr Registered User regular
    I am fine with the suit having some augments that make things a bit easier, but I prefer the interpretation that Samus is partially ascended and it is her training by the Chozo that allows her to do all that stuff. The suit/upgrades act as focuses which make things easier, but if someone else were to put the suit on its just a bunch of metal. The Awkward Zombie explanation works the best.

  • King RiptorKing Riptor Registered User regular
    edited June 2
    The other thing that makes me think physical is in Prime 3 the Federation modifies it.

    Plus in Zero Mission she loses her suit?

    We're probably putting more thought into this than Nintendo ever did.

    By that point they've reverse engineered it to make the Federation force mecha so they might be able to forcibly activate the tech adaption feature

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