I think I read/heard somewhere that each slime can only call a slime once but I have no clue if that is true or not. I don't want to be spreading mis-truths but if it is the case, then focusing down the new spawns over the old slimes would be the proper strategy.
Slimes aren't that bad if it's a mixed group of monsters with one thrown in.
If you get a Big Slime/2X Little Slime combo on a Champion level mission though... fuck that. It's not really possible to kill the new slimes before they split without a lucky critical.
That being said, it's pretty much the only "unfair" set of monsters in the game in my eyes.
pardzh on
gt: Bobby2Socks | steam: Billy Boot-Snatcher
You talk clean and bomb hospitals, so I speak with the foulest mouth possible
All right so I am now 50 weeks in and have all T2 bosses down my conclusion is that this game is fantastic and there needs to be more like it. I cant wait till the rest of the classes and the last two dungeons are released when they launch the final product.
I think this game is awesome because it goes against the mainstream games of giving the players kiddie glove: There is no save, all death is fatal, and I haven't found any way to abuse the game yet.
It took me a bit of research to figured out how to defeat the Necromancer Apprentice by pulling him, but that did give me some ideas on what other abuse I could do to this game. So last night I tried a fresh run and instead of just picking up as I come across them I just left them there, clear the dungeon, wait till the torches dill or burn out and then loot them for extra cash. Apparantly I've read from reddit that low light will give you better rewards but monsters are easier in bright light.
Still the run was a bit of a failure.... traps just randomly sprung everywhere in the dark, one guy died in a fight, and two other guy starved to death (they are at death's door, and then the starvation triggered) leaving me finishing the dungeon with one dude but 11k Gold, 2 trinkets, and lots of deeds, portraits, etc... not bad for a lvl1 dungeon with a team of 2 level zero Bounty Hunters, and 1 Level one Hellion, and a Level 1 Occultist.
stuns work really well on slimes to prevent them from splitting too much
it does seems like afflictions negatives are offset a bit by getting their sanity level back below max. It seems like the "I don't want heals" stuff happens more when they're still sitting at 100
Honestly, the worst part about afflictions isn't gameplay effects; it's the fact that they start spouting UNBEARABLY slow unskippable dialogue that blocks interaction with the game.
I love sanity mechanics and everything, but when I get an affliction cascade I get so frustrated by having to wait several minutes for all my characters to shut up that I often quit the game
Is this something that's changed in any of the recent patches? I haven't played in a while.
Just picked this up. The feeling of clawing my way through the last few rooms by the skin of my teeth to complete a quest leaves me feeling more accomplished than I have ever felt in a video game. Holy Shit this game is tense.
So I learned today the Necromancer is both unholy AND eldritch. Needless to say my highwayman with both the unholy and eldritch perks that grant critical had a field day after polishing his guns. I think his job is pretty much to sit on the bench when running short missions now. He will be exclusively for missions where I can camp and he can proceed to crit the balls off anything and everything that starts with necro.
Next big update is coming on 28th of May with two new heroes and other stuff. Going to start again from scratch then to level up the new heroes and to see if there's been any changes to the early game. Can't wait!
Better heroes die in style! Higher resolve means a better looking tombstone upon death.
The Brigands have acquired a giant cannon they wish to show you. (and kill you with)
They said they would be haaaaard. 3 new bosses, one for each current dungeon.
Not yet, but soon! The Cove will be later this summer.
+5
Lord_AsmodeusgoeticSobriquet:Here is your magical cryptic riddle-tumour: I AM A TIME MACHINERegistered Userregular
Been playing the new patch, have not seen the Man-at-Arms (or the Houndmaster, which I thought would be in game) I like all the distinct color combinations for heroes now. One thing I dislike is the Heart Attack mechanic, especially for certain afflictions that refuse to have their stress reduced especially during rest times, I feel like it's unduly punishing for people who are already afflicted. It's bad enough half the time they'll be useless and will start an affliction cascade if you're not careful, IMO.
Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if Labor had not first existed. Labor is superior to capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. - Lincoln
0
AuralynxDarkness is a perspectiveWatching the ego workRegistered Userregular
Been playing the new patch, have not seen the Man-at-Arms (or the Houndmaster, which I thought would be in game) I like all the distinct color combinations for heroes now. One thing I dislike is the Heart Attack mechanic, especially for certain afflictions that refuse to have their stress reduced especially during rest times, I feel like it's unduly punishing for people who are already afflicted. It's bad enough half the time they'll be useless and will start an affliction cascade if you're not careful, IMO.
Got a bit of that in this morning; fished out one crossbow dude, who is excellent, and a Man-at-Arms who I haven't tried yet but who appears to straddle the same territory as Crusader but with offensive buffs.
0
Lord_AsmodeusgoeticSobriquet:Here is your magical cryptic riddle-tumour: I AM A TIME MACHINERegistered Userregular
I've had a lot of fun finding out party names. There is of course "The usual suspects" but I also found "Glorious Gold" with a Grave Robber, Bounty Hunter, Vestal and Crusader, and The Inquisition with two Crusaders, a Vestal and a Plague Doctor. I've beat the Hag and the Necromancer first incarnations. One thing I'm wondering is, could The Hag always grab people from any where in the line? Because when I fought her she went straight for my Arbalest way in the back, which sucked because she had a ring that gave her extra damage vs humans and a bunch of accuracy buffs. I won and no one died, but it could have been so much faster :P
Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if Labor had not first existed. Labor is superior to capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. - Lincoln
I've had a lot of fun finding out party names. There is of course "The usual suspects" but I also found "Glorious Gold" with a Grave Robber, Bounty Hunter, Vestal and Crusader, and The Inquisition with two Crusaders, a Vestal and a Plague Doctor.
Do the names do anything or are they just funny Easter eggs?
I started a new hamlet to try out the new classes (my old game's roster is completely full) and now the game loves to throw me endless melee characters as new recruits. Trying to do a dungeon with 4 guys who all want to be in the front is a bit of a pain, but when the other option is going in with insane people I had no real choice. Wasn't impressed by my first Arbalest and she didn't live very long, and haven't really gotten to test out the Man-At-Arms that well yet. That riposte thing looks like it could be good, though. The old characters still have a lot of useless skills too, I really hope they go through all those crappy buffs that are never worth wasting a turn for, like Take Aim (+5% ACC and +5% CRIT for ... I don't know, 3 turns?).
I read they balanced trinkets in an earlier build and was all excited that my collection of junk would turn more useful, but what they actually did was to make a bunch of them even worse. I ended up removing a bunch of equiped trinkets since they had turned from somewhat useful to completely counter-productive. Some of the new drops look a bit better though, and at least you can sell them now.
Enjoying the game, all in all, but I'm also a bit worried whether or not the end result's balance will be to my liking. Still a ways to go, of course.
when you add up all the stuff man-at-arms has, there's a pretty good case for them being the new best class in the game, or at least the best frontliner:
- solid body of health and dodge
- average to good damage
- cover and riposte mechanics, the ability that grants riposte in particular being amazingly good with damage and +prot
- amazing camp skills, self and companion ACC/DMG/CRIT buffs
arbalests are pretty cool too, paired with an occultist or a bounty hunter they're really competitive in the back 2 slots.
+1
MaddocI'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother?Registered Userregular
edited May 2015
They need another healer in this game, it's balls that Vestal is the only one that can fit that role well
And before anyone mentions Occultist
That's not really a viable option later on in the game, he's at best a backup emergency healer
They need another healer in this game, it's balls that Vestal is the only one that can fit that role well
And before anyone mentions Occultist
That's not really a viable option later on in the game, he's at best a backup emergency healer
Hrrr? I've found Occultists more viable at healing later in the game, as all your adventurers gain bleed resistance.
0
MaddocI'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother?Registered Userregular
edited May 2015
Later in the game, his heal scales really badly and is still single target and luck based while the Vestal is healing 12 total health with every action
RingoHe/Hima distinct lack of substanceRegistered Userregular
To me the Occultist trades those heals (which I never upgrade to where it starts dealing 2 points of bleed damage) for better utility. I think just having the ability to Mark for my Bounty Hunter is a godsend.
Though I will say I did in the end go with the Vestal on my 3xGrave Robber buzzsaw team that ran me through completion.
As far as the new patch, the only thing I've gotten to see first hand so far is the Man At Arms, and he's a lot of fun.
I still like to use an Occultist if I have a Bounty Hunter. The mark the Occultist use is the same one the BH benefits from on their + vs marked targets skill. It can save several turns the BH doesn't need to spend marking.
Additionally the push/pull skills are quite useful in areas you know you're fighting cultists and bandits. Pulling the back gunner bandit to the front totally screws their formation because their entire moveset is heavily dependant on their specific initial positioning.
It also looks like the Plague Doctor gained a minor heal effect with their blight/bleed cure - that gives them a bit more utility.
HOTFIX Added May 29
Build 8920
Fix for stat modifiers persisting after unequipping all trinkets from the trinket inventory
HOTFIX Added May 29
Build 8918
Heroes get stress relief from successfully disarming traps. Huzzah!
Delayed generation of Red (level 5) quests one dungeon/region level. This should ensure that less quest spots get taken up by L5 quests when players are just starting to get access to Yellow (L3) quests.
Surprise chance tuning in brighter light levels: reduced chance of hero surprise; increased chance of monster surprise
Options - Added Blur effect options
MAA no longer ripostes when stunned
Fixed stress poptext queing issues
Fixed issue where provisions were having Trinket purchase discount applied. Sorry, torches are now back to full price!
Town graphics performance optimization
Fix to quirk awards at end of quests
HOTFIXES Added today (May 28)
Build 8891
Fixed issue where wrong hero/enemy was getting stunned when a stun occurred in conjunction with a displacement (move) attack. E.g. Dead Weight.
Removed guard/riposte buffs that were hanging around after combat ended
Fix to combat stalls/hangs
Increase HP of medium and large pew
Reduced PROT buffs from trinkets and quirks as most were overpowered
Fix to poptext queuing bugs resulting from crit Riposte
Build 8881
Potential fix to battle stall crash
Fixed crash when loading quest types that don't exist; fixed crash when generating dungeon/region level 7 quests
Fixed bug where some curio-item interactions were not triggering
Fixed brigand cannon crash fix
Fixed bug that was causing stall penalty stress to happen in wrong situations
Fixed crash and bugs related to trinkets, trinket selling, trinket sorting
Slightly reduced self stress from getting knocked to Death's Door
Fixed Ancestor's Statue crash
Build 8855
New Features
New Hero Class! Man-At-Arms
New Hero Class! Arbalest
New Ruins Boss! Gibbering Prophet
New Warens Boss! Formless Flesh
New Weald Boss! Brigand Cannon
New Loot: The Ancestor’s Trinket set. Ultra-rare items once held by the Ancestor himself - be warned, some of these trinkets are only found in the pitch dark!
New Building! Ancestor's Statue: Click the statue to open the Ancestor's Memoirs - a record of all cutscenes and boss backstories!
Heart Attacks! Don’t let your heroes get too stressed. If your stress bar fills again past affliction...it’s over.
Sell your junk! In the Trinket Inventory, hold shift to see sell back value, shift+click to sell trinkets
Crit-heals! Heal, critically!
Tons of Party Names as created by Kickstarter and Humble backers!
UI Improvements
Hamlet
Added z-depth to the Hamlet, improved building menu interaction, revised all times of day
Graveyard: Added a background and new Caretaker pose; Tombstones change to reflect resolve level at time of death, UI improvements, scrollbar
Activity Log: UI improvements for easier 'at a glance' parsing of the activity log, scrollbars
Trinket inventory now supports sorting by class restriction and rarity, and a scrollbar
“Unequip all Trinkets” button for quick Trinket wiping
Updated art on remaining incomplete trinkets
Quest Select: Approved party names from player survey
Updated roster sorting buttons' colors to reduce visual noise
Class sort now sorts by preferred position
Dungeon
Added hotkey ( c ) to bring up/dismiss character panel
Manual torch snuffing for more control of lighting level (mouse over torch for instructions)
HP bar animation when healing for greater visual feedback
Additional map controls and logic (-/= or -/+ on numpad to control map zoom)
Map now follows the party, remembers its zoom setting after scouting
Misc
Clarified presentation of PROT (protection) in some places. PROT starts as a % which gets multiplied by the hero or monster’s Max HP. This gives a damage mitigation (armor points) number. For example, 20% PROT x 30 HP = 6 Protection pts. Each hit that lands will have 6 points absorbed before any damage gets through. Additional future work expected.
“Marked” no longer referred to as “tagged” in some tooltips
Improved various menus and icons in the game
New / unique trinket art for trinkets with missing art
Gameplay / Balancing Improvements
Darkness is now more deadly: reduced player crit bonus in low light, slightly increased chance of players being surprised in low light, increased stress damage in low light, slightly increased monster dmg in zero light, slightly reduced gold bonus in low light
Adjusted Dungeon / Region leveling to fit new boss plot quests
Max upgraded Roster size increased - this may be temporary!
Trinkets: Tuning of Trinket award rates and rarities
Trinkets: Balancing/redesign pass on many Trinkets
I’m stuffed! Limit added to Food consumption to reduce over-eating exploit
Plague Doctor: increased Blight Resistance
Bounty Hunter - Hook and Slice is now reworked as a rank 3 / 4 targeting bleed attack
Bounty Hunter - Slight nerf to Finish Him damage bonuses on the Stun Killer effect
Leper - Revenge removed ACC penalty and slightly reduced CRIT bonuses
Leper - Intimidate: reworked the skill to be a strong debuff skill with some damage, affects ranks 1/2 together
Reduced Crit-heal percentage
Reduced companion stress from Death’s Door
Slightly reduced average crit damage from monsters
All L3/L5 monsters have slightly increased HP which may make for slightly longer fights / increased value of buffs and debuffs.
Many size 2 monsters have more HP (Carrion Eater, Swinetaur, Unclean Giant)
Crone: now harder to hit, increased Crone’s Curse debuff and added extra target possibilities to her debuff attacks
Swinetaur can now do running attacks from ranks 2+ instead of 3+. Ole!
Monster Brains - improvements to default brains to make somewhat more deadly as monsters level up
Monster Brains - more monsters have their own brains (much more to come)
Original bosses (Necromancer, Hag, Swine Prince) now have nastier behaviors as they level up
“Heal Received” buff now on certain Skills and Trinkets
And probably a few secret things...
General Bug Fixes
Activity Log entry cutoff issue
Activity Log names update when heroes are renamed
Torch disabled during ambushes with tooltip explanation
Health bar showing up on second quest bug
Profile reposition bug on Main Menu
Raid Results UI layout fixes
Non check-marked room bug
Miscellaneous string edits
Fixed AOE “+” positioning
Fixed Plague Doctor camping pose
Non-loading screen narration interrupting loading screen bug
Swine Prince targeting fix
Battle camera bug, getting stuck at the end of a round
Removed background barks on Provisions screen
Blood splatter no longer appears on misses and dodges
Crash fix when death and Affliction check occur simultaneously by trap
Narration queuing fixes
Traps not appearing when spawned in a corridor previously visited
Prevent surprises from occurring in tiles previously scouted or visited
And more…!
It looks like they added a one-turn stun resist to opponents to prevent chain stunning, and an additional stress meter that counts up to an auto-death to prevent just fucking about in dungeons at full stress on purpose.
Donnicton on
0
MaddocI'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother?Registered Userregular
The Occultist is fine, don't get me wrong.
He's just not a healer, and we need more than one class that can fill that role.
He's just not a healer, and we need more than one class that can fill that role.
What classes are we still missing, though - Merchant and Houndmaster? I guess Merchant could have a proper AE heal. I really wish they go that route given how many classes there are, it'd be boring if in the end 15-20% of the used adventurers will end up being Vestals.
0
AuralynxDarkness is a perspectiveWatching the ego workRegistered Userregular
He's just not a healer, and we need more than one class that can fill that role.
What classes are we still missing, though - Merchant and Houndmaster? I guess Merchant could have a proper AE heal. I really wish they go that route given how many classes there are, it'd be boring if in the end 15-20% of the used adventurers will end up being Vestals.
I'd like to hope that re-tuning of a variety of things will make healing less-mandatory. The giant accuracy debuff to most of the slots on the Arbalest is a good sign there.
He's just not a healer, and we need more than one class that can fill that role.
What classes are we still missing, though - Merchant and Houndmaster? I guess Merchant could have a proper AE heal. I really wish they go that route given how many classes there are, it'd be boring if in the end 15-20% of the used adventurers will end up being Vestals.
I'd like to hope that re-tuning of a variety of things will make healing less-mandatory. The giant accuracy debuff to most of the slots on the Arbalest is a good sign there.
In theory something like that would be great if it worked, but sometimes you just get surprised and/or suddenly critted or your debuffs miss and once that has happened you can't unmake the wound with any debuff or stun or other pro-active skill. Not to mention mitigation of any kind just makes healing even more powerful, so unless they nerf healing to the ground (given they just made it crit, doesn't seem like a direction they are taking) people will want it.
0
AuralynxDarkness is a perspectiveWatching the ego workRegistered Userregular
He's just not a healer, and we need more than one class that can fill that role.
What classes are we still missing, though - Merchant and Houndmaster? I guess Merchant could have a proper AE heal. I really wish they go that route given how many classes there are, it'd be boring if in the end 15-20% of the used adventurers will end up being Vestals.
I'd like to hope that re-tuning of a variety of things will make healing less-mandatory. The giant accuracy debuff to most of the slots on the Arbalest is a good sign there.
In theory something like that would be great if it worked, but sometimes you just get surprised and/or suddenly critted or your debuffs miss and once that has happened you can't unmake the wound with any debuff or stun or other pro-active skill. Not to mention mitigation of any kind just makes healing even more powerful, so unless they nerf healing to the ground (given they just made it crit, doesn't seem like a direction they are taking) people will want it.
Oh, I agree. It'd just be nice to be able to go that route for once. The Etrian Odyssey games are the only other ones I can think of where you can even try to cripple things too badly to attack and have much chance of it working.
a man-at-arms with a tough ring trinket (+5 prot) and the riposte stance (more prot) takes 0 damage from most things and crits for upwards of 25 damage, sometimes getting to attack multiple times a turn if a lot of front row AOEs are flying around. I would expect a nerf very very soon, at least to limit riposte to one charge and attack per round.
Torgairon on
0
Lord_AsmodeusgoeticSobriquet:Here is your magical cryptic riddle-tumour: I AM A TIME MACHINERegistered Userregular
edited May 2015
Okay so, I want to know if this has happened to anyone else. My Hellion went drinking and got some negative trait for -10 dodge (can't remember the name of it) but the trait has not appeared in her list of traits and so is unremovable in the Sanitarium, and when I mouse over her reduced dodge it just says "-10 Town"
Does anyone know if this just like a super duper permanent thing or is this a bug or what? Is this a town event where I need her to do something to get rid of it?
Edit: It said she was moving sluggishly with sluggishly in red letters, but there's no corresponding trait or anything.
Lord_Asmodeus on
Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if Labor had not first existed. Labor is superior to capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. - Lincoln
0
RingoHe/Hima distinct lack of substanceRegistered Userregular
It's a town debuff. It stays with her until she completes a dungeon run
Posts
If you get a Big Slime/2X Little Slime combo on a Champion level mission though... fuck that. It's not really possible to kill the new slimes before they split without a lucky critical.
That being said, it's pretty much the only "unfair" set of monsters in the game in my eyes.
You talk clean and bomb hospitals, so I speak with the foulest mouth possible
It took me a bit of research to figured out how to defeat the Necromancer Apprentice by pulling him, but that did give me some ideas on what other abuse I could do to this game. So last night I tried a fresh run and instead of just picking up as I come across them I just left them there, clear the dungeon, wait till the torches dill or burn out and then loot them for extra cash. Apparantly I've read from reddit that low light will give you better rewards but monsters are easier in bright light.
Still the run was a bit of a failure.... traps just randomly sprung everywhere in the dark, one guy died in a fight, and two other guy starved to death (they are at death's door, and then the starvation triggered) leaving me finishing the dungeon with one dude but 11k Gold, 2 trinkets, and lots of deeds, portraits, etc... not bad for a lvl1 dungeon with a team of 2 level zero Bounty Hunters, and 1 Level one Hellion, and a Level 1 Occultist.
it does seems like afflictions negatives are offset a bit by getting their sanity level back below max. It seems like the "I don't want heals" stuff happens more when they're still sitting at 100
I love sanity mechanics and everything, but when I get an affliction cascade I get so frustrated by having to wait several minutes for all my characters to shut up that I often quit the game
Is this something that's changed in any of the recent patches? I haven't played in a while.
When I last played I found an option to make it slower but not faster
which was crazy
PSN: Robo_Wizard1
Also, tried a long mission and got tons more loot than I could carry.
So the highlights is that each area will have two bosses . Darkest dungeon is an endgame no retreat area, win or die.
You talk clean and bomb hospitals, so I speak with the foulest mouth possible
Got a bit of that in this morning; fished out one crossbow dude, who is excellent, and a Man-at-Arms who I haven't tried yet but who appears to straddle the same territory as Crusader but with offensive buffs.
Do the names do anything or are they just funny Easter eggs?
I started a new hamlet to try out the new classes (my old game's roster is completely full) and now the game loves to throw me endless melee characters as new recruits. Trying to do a dungeon with 4 guys who all want to be in the front is a bit of a pain, but when the other option is going in with insane people I had no real choice. Wasn't impressed by my first Arbalest and she didn't live very long, and haven't really gotten to test out the Man-At-Arms that well yet. That riposte thing looks like it could be good, though. The old characters still have a lot of useless skills too, I really hope they go through all those crappy buffs that are never worth wasting a turn for, like Take Aim (+5% ACC and +5% CRIT for ... I don't know, 3 turns?).
I read they balanced trinkets in an earlier build and was all excited that my collection of junk would turn more useful, but what they actually did was to make a bunch of them even worse. I ended up removing a bunch of equiped trinkets since they had turned from somewhat useful to completely counter-productive. Some of the new drops look a bit better though, and at least you can sell them now.
Enjoying the game, all in all, but I'm also a bit worried whether or not the end result's balance will be to my liking. Still a ways to go, of course.
- solid body of health and dodge
- average to good damage
- cover and riposte mechanics, the ability that grants riposte in particular being amazingly good with damage and +prot
- amazing camp skills, self and companion ACC/DMG/CRIT buffs
arbalests are pretty cool too, paired with an occultist or a bounty hunter they're really competitive in the back 2 slots.
And before anyone mentions Occultist
That's not really a viable option later on in the game, he's at best a backup emergency healer
Honestly, though it doesn't really fit what they're trying to do, putting slightly more +health on the heal / buff skills would go a long way.
Hrrr? I've found Occultists more viable at healing later in the game, as all your adventurers gain bleed resistance.
Or 7-8 to a single target
Though I will say I did in the end go with the Vestal on my 3xGrave Robber buzzsaw team that ran me through completion.
As far as the new patch, the only thing I've gotten to see first hand so far is the Man At Arms, and he's a lot of fun.
Additionally the push/pull skills are quite useful in areas you know you're fighting cultists and bandits. Pulling the back gunner bandit to the front totally screws their formation because their entire moveset is heavily dependant on their specific initial positioning.
It also looks like the Plague Doctor gained a minor heal effect with their blight/bleed cure - that gives them a bit more utility.
It looks like they added a one-turn stun resist to opponents to prevent chain stunning, and an additional stress meter that counts up to an auto-death to prevent just fucking about in dungeons at full stress on purpose.
He's just not a healer, and we need more than one class that can fill that role.
What classes are we still missing, though - Merchant and Houndmaster? I guess Merchant could have a proper AE heal. I really wish they go that route given how many classes there are, it'd be boring if in the end 15-20% of the used adventurers will end up being Vestals.
I'd like to hope that re-tuning of a variety of things will make healing less-mandatory. The giant accuracy debuff to most of the slots on the Arbalest is a good sign there.
In theory something like that would be great if it worked, but sometimes you just get surprised and/or suddenly critted or your debuffs miss and once that has happened you can't unmake the wound with any debuff or stun or other pro-active skill. Not to mention mitigation of any kind just makes healing even more powerful, so unless they nerf healing to the ground (given they just made it crit, doesn't seem like a direction they are taking) people will want it.
Oh, I agree. It'd just be nice to be able to go that route for once. The Etrian Odyssey games are the only other ones I can think of where you can even try to cripple things too badly to attack and have much chance of it working.
Does anyone know if this just like a super duper permanent thing or is this a bug or what? Is this a town event where I need her to do something to get rid of it?
Edit: It said she was moving sluggishly with sluggishly in red letters, but there's no corresponding trait or anything.