Man, I need to get back into this. Have any abilities changed significantly in the last couple months?
They've buffed some abilities - Occ heal works from any position now, Vestal mace attack has bonus vs unholy, Bounty Hunter's crap bleed (Hook Slice?) got totally reworked into Caltrops, some abilities only work once per battle but give a buff that lasts the full fight, Leper's Intimidate got changed. There was a bunch of other changes too like trinket nerfs, Antiquarian got a huge hp nerf for her higher level armors etc.
Whoah what're we talking about here? I never noticed this!
Highwayman's Tracking Shot and at least one other, I believe. Caltrops looks like it might be good stacked with Bellow for a heavy-debuffing comp, which is more than you could say about Hook & Slice.
Crusader's Bulwark of Faith is another, I was kinda wondering why it gives +20 Torch for one use of the skill before I realized that you can't spam it.
The Dream Team is victorious! Bust open a box of wine with a shovel before I met him and had them camp just before they went into his room.
Spoilers for The Baron's combat mechanics.
The fight begins with the Baron and some of those red eggs you've been torching around the Courtyard. Only now the presence of those eggs prohibits any of your healing skills from working - including the Flagellant's Exsanguinate attack - so my Vestal's entire movelist (AoE heal, target heal, Judgement, and Hand of Light for when she gets out of position) cannot be used unless I want to give up the positioning of the rest of the team.
Any damage will break an egg, and out will pop a bloodsucker enemy (or the Baron himself). They won't break out and attack until you break them, so you can limit the fight to one at a time - until the Baron decides to bring everyone out at once. Once all the eggs are broken, you can use healing skills again.
Problem being, her passing turns repeatedly spiked her stress, which meant my Jester had to lay off DPSing to serenade her - all of which could've been avoided if I'd just put like the stun attack on her.
See, I had that exact same team and I got ABSOLUTELY TRUCKED by the Baron.
I think it was because he landed a crit literally every other attack.
He's annoying, but I've run multiple no-hitters on the Collector so he doesn't annoy me as much.
+3
HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
edited June 2017
I've been randomly going through old episode of Extra Credits recently, and this episode on 'When Difficult Is Fun" just showed up (edit - mind you this episode is just shy of 4 years old now). And y'know, I think Darkest Dungeon totally executes on difficulty properly.
Went back to the Baron, this time with Occultist Houndmaster Flagellant Man-At-Arms. Wiped the floor with him. Occultist barely needed to heal, the dog treats helped the houndmaster pull his weight, the Flagellant flagellated, and the Man-At-Arms basically alternated between Retribution (fat ripostes from all the aoes the Baron does) and Bolster (fat dodges for damage mitigation).
Again, I think the issue I had on my first attempt was just straight-up getting super unlucky with getting crit repeatedly.
Man the Crocodillian on Champion is no joke. He hit 3/4 with Apex Predator at once lol.
I needed a Man at Arms using guard on my Vestal to survive that one. Bleeds are handy since he gets a lot of turns (bleeds are good in general for the Courtyard).
I've been randomly going through old episode of Extra Credits recently, and this episode on 'When Difficult Is Fun" just showed up (edit - mind you this episode is just shy of 4 years old now). And y'know, I think Darkest Dungeon totally executes on difficulty properly.
I disagree honestly. The first few forays into each area are fine, you're learning the ropes and intricacies and it's cool, but once you start getting into champion runs basically becomes 'how hard will the RNG fuck me over.' This is actually a problem throughout the game but it becomes more pronounced as time goes on, since the characters getting obliterated by chain crits aren't the disposable plebs they used to be, but peeps you've sunk tons of time and resources into and will have to do so again, for no reason other than you were unlucky. The general idea behind roguelikes is if you're sufficiently knowledgeable and prepared, you can take whatever the game throws at you. Darkest Dungeon sees this and goes 'yeah, but that's boring, so you're randomly fucked sometimes anyway.'
I've been randomly going through old episode of Extra Credits recently, and this episode on 'When Difficult Is Fun" just showed up (edit - mind you this episode is just shy of 4 years old now). And y'know, I think Darkest Dungeon totally executes on difficulty properly.
I disagree honestly. The first few forays into each area are fine, you're learning the ropes and intricacies and it's cool, but once you start getting into champion runs basically becomes 'how hard will the RNG fuck me over.' This is actually a problem throughout the game but it becomes more pronounced as time goes on, since the characters getting obliterated by chain crits aren't the disposable plebs they used to be, but peeps you've sunk tons of time and resources into and will have to do so again, for no reason other than you were unlucky. The general idea behind roguelikes is if you're sufficiently knowledgeable and prepared, you can take whatever the game throws at you. Darkest Dungeon sees this and goes 'yeah, but that's boring, so you're randomly fucked sometimes anyway.'
Well I love it. Lost half a team of Champions today, but escaped with their precious precious trinkets.
All things considered it coulda' been way worse.
Edit: Oh, also, the Dreams (minus the Vestal, who fell to the Shrieker) are still going strong. I estimate they're either a half or three-quarters of the way done the Viscount's dungeon. A lotta' close calls, but a Vestal named Paris stepped up and she's been doin' fine. A Flagellant with Mercurial Salve (+25 Vs. Bloodsuckers), Dismas's Head (+25 dmg), low-health buff (+20), Blood Lust (+20) and Death's Door (+20) is... really something.
Chance on
'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
Once you're good at the game RNG is the only thing that can give you problems. Before that you can get fucked by bringing the wrong party into the wrong dungeon, or equipping the wrong trinkets, bad target prioritization, all kinds of shit. But once you learned all that shit you're good. But the RNG ignores all that and may or may not just wreck your shit. Two identical parties can walk into identical fights, one walks out without a scratch and the other wipes, and it all comes down to dice rolls.
I've been randomly going through old episode of Extra Credits recently, and this episode on 'When Difficult Is Fun" just showed up (edit - mind you this episode is just shy of 4 years old now). And y'know, I think Darkest Dungeon totally executes on difficulty properly.
*snip video*
I disagree honestly. The first few forays into each area are fine, you're learning the ropes and intricacies and it's cool, but once you start getting into champion runs basically becomes 'how hard will the RNG fuck me over.' This is actually a problem throughout the game but it becomes more pronounced as time goes on, since the characters getting obliterated by chain crits aren't the disposable plebs they used to be, but peeps you've sunk tons of time and resources into and will have to do so again, for no reason other than you were unlucky. The general idea behind roguelikes is if you're sufficiently knowledgeable and prepared, you can take whatever the game throws at you. Darkest Dungeon sees this and goes 'yeah, but that's boring, so you're randomly fucked sometimes anyway.'
I dunno if I'd call failure in Darkest Dungeon a result of "unlucky." I mean, not in a single instance. A single instance of bad luck does not kill any dungeon run or a party. A cascade of bad luck, sure, but the game starts leaning you into weighing consequence and learning the value of things. It fits perfectly with what the video described when it comes to letting the player make decisions as opposed to have non-decisions. The easiest example is what Tube pointed out; the first thing people should learn in this game is you don't have to interact with every object / curio.
It uses dice rolls, and the numbers are EXTREMELY tight (as they should be, fuck RPGs where at level 10 you have 578 HP). But dice rolling itself isn't the one and only factor when people talk about "RNG" in video games. Not in a vacuum at any rate.
+1
Golden YakBurnished BovineThe sunny beaches of CanadaRegistered Userregular
edited June 2017
Aigh, found the Viscount.
Okay, he's this horrible bug-centaur creature that has three bodies hanging from fleshy webs - Emaciated Body, Body, and Bloodstuffed Body.
He also gets four fucking moves a round and will feast off the bodies to restore health - each body gives a varying amount of health to him, with Emaciated giving the least and Bloodstuffed healing the most.
I figured - take out the bodies, no more healing, easy right? Actually, without bodies to feed on, he just spends every turn wailing on you. I had to retreat. Now my guys are all messed up so I'll be taking a few turns getting them back into shape.
He doesn't have a lot of health but he heals a ton, and when he feeds off a body he removes any bleeds them have on them. He might target bodies with bleed on them specifically - he didn't prioritize feeding off the Bloodstuffed body as far as I can tell.
I figure I will try and keep bleeds on the Emaciated body to distract him into feeding, giving me enough turns to wail on him to death. If needs be I'll wipe out the Bloodstuffed body first and leave the others to distract him.
Going back in!
edit: Further update on my efforts to slay the Viscount.
Got the bastard!
Confirmed that he gains 50+ health from Bloodstuffed Body, 25+ health from regular body, and 0 health from Emaciated Body. He also gains buffs from each body, which are brutal - extra speed, extra damage, lasting for many turns. However, he only gains a +crit buff from the Emaciated body.
The way to do it was to eliminate the other two bodies as quickly as possible and leave him with only the Emaciated Body to feed from. Without healing and his buffs from the other bodies, he went down quickly and easily - no losses on this one.
RNG is technically a big factor in this game, because it's a game of odds management. That doesn't mean it's unfair. If you somehow played a game of D&D where you only rolled 1s, you're going to have a bad time with that too. Darkest Dungeon is largely a very fair game that is constantly bombarding you with decisions based on "is this worth the risk?". In the beginning, you often don't have the information necessary to make a decision.
Should I try a no-torch run? Yes, the extra treasure is worth the risk!
Sucks to be you, The Shambler lives in the dark
That's the "unfair" part, but the game never pretends it's giving you all the information up front. The progress in this game is largely based on "now I have the information I need to make more effective decisions". You're not always making a decision that will definitely succeed, but you're more able to look at the odds and say "it's worth it"
The AI deciding to focus down your healer isn't unfair. That's a valid and simple tactic, and there are defenses against it (guarding, healing, stuns). Even if they crit three times in a row (not an example of cheating, that's going to happen sometimes) it's something that the game is up front about and you can prepare for. Do you have burst healing? Lots of different small sources? Anything to get a party member out of trouble in an emergency?
If you have a party that can't deal with x scenario, you're making a risk management decision, which is the entire purpose of the game. I have parties that can't deal with being shuffled, and I'm deciding "it's worth the risk that they will not get shuffled". I have parties with fantastic mitigation but no healing, and I decide "it is worth the risk that my stuns will fail and I'll get focused down". That's the game. It's not unfair.
tldr: Just like X-Com, people constantly complain about this game being completely RNG and it's not any more true of this than it is X Com. It's a game of risk and probability management. That's the entire point.
tldr: Just like X-Com, people constantly complain about this game being completely RNG and it's not any more true of this than it is X Com. It's a game of risk and probability management. That's the entire point.
I think some people just aren't well suited to playing games like this. They go for the reckless option every time and when it fails (and it's going to fail a lot), they rage-quit the game and go write a long post somewhere how the game sucks and it's all about the RNG and nobody can be good at the game because of that. But as Tube wrote it is all about risk mitigation and meticulously planning your moves so the odds are in your favor: that 65% chance to stun something again can fail so you might be better off doing damage or healing instead, that attack for 8-13 isn't going to one-shot that 12 hp Bone Courtier and so on and on. When your heroes crit and one-shot something it's great but also something you should not plan for.
0
AuralynxDarkness is a perspectiveWatching the ego workRegistered Userregular
tldr: Just like X-Com, people constantly complain about this game being completely RNG and it's not any more true of this than it is X Com. It's a game of risk and probability management. That's the entire point.
I think some people just aren't well suited to playing games like this. They go for the reckless option every time and when it fails (and it's going to fail a lot), they rage-quit the game and go write a long post somewhere how the game sucks and it's all about the RNG and nobody can be good at the game because of that. But as Tube wrote it is all about risk mitigation and meticulously planning your moves so the odds are in your favor: that 65% chance to stun something again can fail so you might be better off doing damage or healing instead, that attack for 8-13 isn't going to one-shot that 12 hp Bone Courtier and so on and on. When your heroes crit and one-shot something it's great but also something you should not plan for.
I cleared the Hag last night on that two-years one where I'm really taking my time with it. On the RNG / preparation subject, it was largely because I had the sense to bring a Grave Robber, Vestal and Highwayman who were going to be able to hit her from any position and a Leper who was only going to be useful in the front but who could potentially one-shot the Cauldron; I'd wiped on her a while ago due to bad choices of characters to bring and unfortunate luck as far as who she threw in the pot.
She still tried to kill the Highwayman pretty much immediately, but I knocked him right back out and shot her to death.
Also, she didn't crit her heal several times in a row at low health this time, which was a big plus.
0
3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
RNG is technically a big factor in this game, because it's a game of odds management. That doesn't mean it's unfair. If you somehow played a game of D&D where you only rolled 1s, you're going to have a bad time with that too. Darkest Dungeon is largely a very fair game that is constantly bombarding you with decisions based on "is this worth the risk?". In the beginning, you often don't have the information necessary to make a decision.
Should I try a no-torch run? Yes, the extra treasure is worth the risk!
Sucks to be you, The Shambler lives in the dark
That's the "unfair" part, but the game never pretends it's giving you all the information up front. The progress in this game is largely based on "now I have the information I need to make more effective decisions". You're not always making a decision that will definitely succeed, but you're more able to look at the odds and say "it's worth it"
The AI deciding to focus down your healer isn't unfair. That's a valid and simple tactic, and there are defenses against it (guarding, healing, stuns). Even if they crit three times in a row (not an example of cheating, that's going to happen sometimes) it's something that the game is up front about and you can prepare for. Do you have burst healing? Lots of different small sources? Anything to get a party member out of trouble in an emergency?
If you have a party that can't deal with x scenario, you're making a risk management decision, which is the entire purpose of the game. I have parties that can't deal with being shuffled, and I'm deciding "it's worth the risk that they will not get shuffled". I have parties with fantastic mitigation but no healing, and I decide "it is worth the risk that my stuns will fail and I'll get focused down". That's the game. It's not unfair.
tldr: Just like X-Com, people constantly complain about this game being completely RNG and it's not any more true of this than it is X Com. It's a game of risk and probability management. That's the entire point.
Also, no scenario in this game is unrecoverable. Your town doesn't get burned down and aside from gear and trinkets on heroes who die, upgrades are permanent. Even if you lose your A team you're not starting over from nothing.
edit: I guess the timed mode does change that but that's a specific challenge mode that you have to choose on purpose.
it reminds me of pokemon where people would complain about rng in the battle towers. the fact is you're going to get crit, it's going to happen. killing stuff faster gives them fewer chances to crit you, but it's still going to happen. so be prepared for that inevitability.
No I mean impossible to have gotten sick of Wayne June.
I didn't say I was sick of him! I just don't like that it ends up being a super long load screen.
I don't want to change all his other comments tho.
At least on my computer he often stops talking and then there's still a bit of pause with the game generating the dungeon before it is ready so I'm not sure how much time you'd win unless you have the game on a SSD and have a really faster computer.
0
AuralynxDarkness is a perspectiveWatching the ego workRegistered Userregular
No I mean impossible to have gotten sick of Wayne June.
What I've wanted since this launched, but don't think exists, is a "How often does the narrator say something hopeless," slider, because there are times where he's just relentless and putting up with that becomes more of a challenge than the game itself.
No I mean impossible to have gotten sick of Wayne June.
I didn't say I was sick of him! I just don't like that it ends up being a super long load screen.
I don't want to change all his other comments tho.
At least on my computer he often stops talking and then there's still a bit of pause with the game generating the dungeon before it is ready so I'm not sure how much time you'd win unless you have the game on a SSD and have a really faster computer.
My pc doesn't seem to start loading the dungeon until after he's done talking which is annoying.
When I had last played this game, the Cove wasn't even in the game yet. Playing it recently, I'm absolutely in love with the Cove theme, it has to be one of the best in the game.
I really like this game but I can't play for more than 30 minutes at a time because I get more stressed than my heroes. I hear the balance has been adjusted slightly too (played mostly pre-cove and maybe for an hour or two after). I definitely need to work on throwing away lives of worthless adventurers if I start playing again.
Posts
Oh, wow. That's actually usable now.
See, I had that exact same team and I got ABSOLUTELY TRUCKED by the Baron.
I think it was because he landed a crit literally every other attack.
Again, I think the issue I had on my first attempt was just straight-up getting super unlucky with getting crit repeatedly.
I needed a Man at Arms using guard on my Vestal to survive that one. Bleeds are handy since he gets a lot of turns (bleeds are good in general for the Courtyard).
I disagree honestly. The first few forays into each area are fine, you're learning the ropes and intricacies and it's cool, but once you start getting into champion runs basically becomes 'how hard will the RNG fuck me over.' This is actually a problem throughout the game but it becomes more pronounced as time goes on, since the characters getting obliterated by chain crits aren't the disposable plebs they used to be, but peeps you've sunk tons of time and resources into and will have to do so again, for no reason other than you were unlucky. The general idea behind roguelikes is if you're sufficiently knowledgeable and prepared, you can take whatever the game throws at you. Darkest Dungeon sees this and goes 'yeah, but that's boring, so you're randomly fucked sometimes anyway.'
Well I love it. Lost half a team of Champions today, but escaped with their precious precious trinkets.
All things considered it coulda' been way worse.
Edit: Oh, also, the Dreams (minus the Vestal, who fell to the Shrieker) are still going strong. I estimate they're either a half or three-quarters of the way done the Viscount's dungeon. A lotta' close calls, but a Vestal named Paris stepped up and she's been doin' fine. A Flagellant with Mercurial Salve (+25 Vs. Bloodsuckers), Dismas's Head (+25 dmg), low-health buff (+20), Blood Lust (+20) and Death's Door (+20) is... really something.
It uses dice rolls, and the numbers are EXTREMELY tight (as they should be, fuck RPGs where at level 10 you have 578 HP). But dice rolling itself isn't the one and only factor when people talk about "RNG" in video games. Not in a vacuum at any rate.
He also gets four fucking moves a round and will feast off the bodies to restore health - each body gives a varying amount of health to him, with Emaciated giving the least and Bloodstuffed healing the most.
I figured - take out the bodies, no more healing, easy right? Actually, without bodies to feed on, he just spends every turn wailing on you. I had to retreat. Now my guys are all messed up so I'll be taking a few turns getting them back into shape.
He doesn't have a lot of health but he heals a ton, and when he feeds off a body he removes any bleeds them have on them. He might target bodies with bleed on them specifically - he didn't prioritize feeding off the Bloodstuffed body as far as I can tell.
I figure I will try and keep bleeds on the Emaciated body to distract him into feeding, giving me enough turns to wail on him to death. If needs be I'll wipe out the Bloodstuffed body first and leave the others to distract him.
Going back in!
edit: Further update on my efforts to slay the Viscount.
Got the bastard!
Confirmed that he gains 50+ health from Bloodstuffed Body, 25+ health from regular body, and 0 health from Emaciated Body. He also gains buffs from each body, which are brutal - extra speed, extra damage, lasting for many turns. However, he only gains a +crit buff from the Emaciated body.
The way to do it was to eliminate the other two bodies as quickly as possible and leave him with only the Emaciated Body to feed from. Without healing and his buffs from the other bodies, he went down quickly and easily - no losses on this one.
Should I try a no-torch run? Yes, the extra treasure is worth the risk!
Sucks to be you, The Shambler lives in the dark
That's the "unfair" part, but the game never pretends it's giving you all the information up front. The progress in this game is largely based on "now I have the information I need to make more effective decisions". You're not always making a decision that will definitely succeed, but you're more able to look at the odds and say "it's worth it"
The AI deciding to focus down your healer isn't unfair. That's a valid and simple tactic, and there are defenses against it (guarding, healing, stuns). Even if they crit three times in a row (not an example of cheating, that's going to happen sometimes) it's something that the game is up front about and you can prepare for. Do you have burst healing? Lots of different small sources? Anything to get a party member out of trouble in an emergency?
If you have a party that can't deal with x scenario, you're making a risk management decision, which is the entire purpose of the game. I have parties that can't deal with being shuffled, and I'm deciding "it's worth the risk that they will not get shuffled". I have parties with fantastic mitigation but no healing, and I decide "it is worth the risk that my stuns will fail and I'll get focused down". That's the game. It's not unfair.
tldr: Just like X-Com, people constantly complain about this game being completely RNG and it's not any more true of this than it is X Com. It's a game of risk and probability management. That's the entire point.
Do not get attached to any one person.
The only thing that is certain is that death comes for all
I think some people just aren't well suited to playing games like this. They go for the reckless option every time and when it fails (and it's going to fail a lot), they rage-quit the game and go write a long post somewhere how the game sucks and it's all about the RNG and nobody can be good at the game because of that. But as Tube wrote it is all about risk mitigation and meticulously planning your moves so the odds are in your favor: that 65% chance to stun something again can fail so you might be better off doing damage or healing instead, that attack for 8-13 isn't going to one-shot that 12 hp Bone Courtier and so on and on. When your heroes crit and one-shot something it's great but also something you should not plan for.
I cleared the Hag last night on that two-years one where I'm really taking my time with it. On the RNG / preparation subject, it was largely because I had the sense to bring a Grave Robber, Vestal and Highwayman who were going to be able to hit her from any position and a Leper who was only going to be useful in the front but who could potentially one-shot the Cauldron; I'd wiped on her a while ago due to bad choices of characters to bring and unfortunate luck as far as who she threw in the pot.
She still tried to kill the Highwayman pretty much immediately, but I knocked him right back out and shot her to death.
Also, she didn't crit her heal several times in a row at low health this time, which was a big plus.
Also, no scenario in this game is unrecoverable. Your town doesn't get burned down and aside from gear and trinkets on heroes who die, upgrades are permanent. Even if you lose your A team you're not starting over from nothing.
edit: I guess the timed mode does change that but that's a specific challenge mode that you have to choose on purpose.
I've definitely got them muted, so it's just a real long load screen. Not sure how I pulled it off, though. Will look later.
I didn't say I was sick of him! I just don't like that it ends up being a super long load screen.
I don't want to change all his other comments tho.
At least on my computer he often stops talking and then there's still a bit of pause with the game generating the dungeon before it is ready so I'm not sure how much time you'd win unless you have the game on a SSD and have a really faster computer.
What I've wanted since this launched, but don't think exists, is a "How often does the narrator say something hopeless," slider, because there are times where he's just relentless and putting up with that becomes more of a challenge than the game itself.
My pc doesn't seem to start loading the dungeon until after he's done talking which is annoying.
I'm still waiting on an MP3 of "ambushed by foul invention!" so I can use it for an alert on my phone.
"I'm so glad we finally found time to get together! Tell me everything about-"
"Ambushed by foul invention!"
"Damn!"
"In time, you will know the tragic extent of my failings..."
Curious is the trap makers art. His efficacy unwitnessed by his own eyes.
This is valid in real life as well!
https://clips.twitch.tv/BlitheDependableSmoothieBibleThump
Ohhohohohohoh.