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[12 Monkeys] And Neunundneunzig Red Balloons

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    NSDFRandNSDFRand FloridaRegistered User regular
    So I decided to watch this (the movie being one of my favorites) and I have to say after EP1 I am hooked. It has been a long time since a SciFi channel series (First half of SG1) has done this for me.

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    NSDFRandNSDFRand FloridaRegistered User regular
    So I'm on episode four, and so far I am still in it. I like the future sequences
    with a few personal issues with how the action is "handled" but I can hand wave that away with untrained scavengers fighting with green trained "soldiers" with no apparent significant combat experience
    .

    As someone with an affinity for H&K products I am also liking the multiple H&K armory props being used.

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    Big DookieBig Dookie Smells great! Houston, TXRegistered User regular
    edited February 2015
    I liked this episode a lot. It has kind of made me roll back my criticism of the previous one because it puts things in a new light. Because here's the thing. Even though the events of the last two episodes resulted in changes to the future that Cole had to correct, it had to happen so that Cole would have the intel he needed to look more into the operation in Chechnya. If he hadn't gone into that alternate future, he would have never found out the virus was released early due to that operation and he wouldn't have known to pursue it. Which in the end reset every thing back to the normal timeline Cole originally came from. Of course they all think it destroyed the threat, but we know that isn't the case.

    So weirdly, even though there are some alternate timeline shenanigans going on, they ultimately all loop back around to the normal timeline again where the virus is released in 2017. As far as 2042 is concerned, all of these things already happened and had already happened from the first episode.

    I really like this idea that timelines can be changed temporarily, but ultimately will be reset to the original timeline because there is no other possible outcome. If the show goes this route I am going to be very impressed.

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    AlphaRomeroAlphaRomero Registered User regular
    I'm not sure how they fix this right now though. I mean it's entirely possible for Cass to leave some kind of message so they rectify it, since Cole has to go to 1987 and ultimately I think become that infected corpse.

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    Big DookieBig Dookie Smells great! Houston, TXRegistered User regular
    I guess the question is if Cole is actually dead or not. We didn't see him die, just a final shot of him and a cutaway before the missle hit. He could have splintered at the last second maybe. But even if he did die, there has to be some time travel loop hole that will get him... back to the future.

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    Zilla360Zilla360 21st Century. |She/Her| Trans* Woman In Aviators Firing A Bazooka. ⚛️Registered User regular
    Yeah, I think he splintered at the last second.

    Also, gotta love Cole's improvised trap making skills in the barn.

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    Big DookieBig Dookie Smells great! Houston, TXRegistered User regular
    Yeah I loved that part. Mainly because it gives us a glimpse of what Cole learned during his time as a scavenger. Stone cold.

    One thing that did bother me though was how cool Cassie was with Cole. Just two episodes ago she was super pissed when she found out about him killing her friend in Haiti. Maybe I'm misremembering, but did they really ever resolve that? Seems like they kind of glossed over that.

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    Baron Of HellBaron Of Hell Registered User regular
    Cole never explained why he killed Cassie's friend. They just kind of dropped it.

    I'm up to date as of today with the episodes. I'm really liking it especially this last episode. I wonder if they are planning on replacing Cole. If he doesn't die in the past he'll strain of jumping will killing him.

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    Mego ThorMego Thor "I say thee...NAY!" Registered User regular
    I like how the show incorporated an Edward Snowden type into the storyline. I'm not surprised that the ex-boyfriend would let Cole go back into the past to die, but I didn't think Cassie would.

    "You might change the past if you tell me."

    "Changing the past is exactly our premise!"

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    Captain TragedyCaptain Tragedy Registered User regular
    *Closes eyes while scrolling to bottom of thread to miss spoliers*

    Renewed.

    *Runs out*

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    MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    The last two episodes have been really good. I like where they are taking everything and how again it seems like time can't be changed though it kind of has.

    Also renewal makes me happy.

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    AlphaRomeroAlphaRomero Registered User regular
    Eh, at this point it's a bit too late for Ramse to have second thoughts. Stopping Jones really screws them now.

    Also I love how elderly scientist Jones is like the best hero/villain on tv.

    Based on Cass's future, there are a lot of jumps left in Cole or at least significant chunks of time spent in the past. I'm still convinced either The Tall Man or the Witness are Ramse though.

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    electricitylikesmeelectricitylikesme Registered User regular
    So what was going on with
    A second scratch on Cass's watch being erased after Cole splintered?

    I'm guessing that's something on a timeline which didn't happen to Cole because he didn't previously go through 2017 before he continued his time traveling.

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    Big DookieBig Dookie Smells great! Houston, TXRegistered User regular
    Was it a second one? I thought it was just the original one disappearing. I'll have to go back and rewatch (lol) that.

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    TraceTrace GNU Terry Pratchett; GNU Gus; GNU Carrie Fisher; GNU Adam We Registered User regular
    edited March 2015
    with my prior experience being shows along the lines of Alphas


    I'm waiting to watch this and get invested.

    Trace on
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    MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    Trace wrote: »
    with my prior experience being shows along the lines of Alphas


    I'm waiting to watch this and get invested.

    Well you get two guaranteed seasons now.

    So did Alphas and god damn it worse ending ever.

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    AlphaRomeroAlphaRomero Registered User regular
    edited March 2015
    I knew it. I knew Ramse would be in the past

    AlphaRomero on
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    AlphaRomeroAlphaRomero Registered User regular
    So (Latest episode spoilers)
    Clearly Ramse is either the Tall Man or the Witness, it's possible he's either since age could explain his transformation into the Tall Man, though Goines goes through a less drastic transformation over hte same period judging from the next episode Promo photos. I think we all kinda guessed this would happen eventually. I'm leaning more towards the Witness only because I don't see how Ramse transforms into a sociopath who decorates his victims with flowers and has some kind of superhuman strength.

    I just wish Ramse's son had been introduced much earlier, like the 2nd ep, because while his choices are believable, they're also too sudden.

    And kinda stupid. He's just left his son an orphan in the goddamn apocalyptic wasteland.

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    MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    So (Latest episode spoilers)
    Clearly Ramse is either the Tall Man or the Witness, it's possible he's either since age could explain his transformation into the Tall Man, though Goines goes through a less drastic transformation over hte same period judging from the next episode Promo photos. I think we all kinda guessed this would happen eventually. I'm leaning more towards the Witness only because I don't see how Ramse transforms into a sociopath who decorates his victims with flowers and has some kind of superhuman strength.

    I just wish Ramse's son had been introduced much earlier, like the 2nd ep, because while his choices are believable, they're also too sudden.

    And kinda stupid. He's just left his son an orphan in the goddamn apocalyptic wasteland.

    On the last episode.
    I think something we miss is how time passes in the future between jumps. It can be days or maybe months. We don't know how long it took to install the core. Basically I feel there was a lot of off show time passed for the relationship to develop.

    Still I feel Ramsey is the Witness or someone similar. He spends time with miss crazy. He doesn't seem like the tall man to me. The tall man doesn't wear that necklace does he?

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    Zilla360Zilla360 21st Century. |She/Her| Trans* Woman In Aviators Firing A Bazooka. ⚛️Registered User regular
    Yeah Ramsey is 'The Witness', in all likelyhood. Would be interesting to be wrong about that though.

    And can people PLEASE stop shooting the time machine. It's almost a drinking game at this point. :P :pop:

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    AlphaRomeroAlphaRomero Registered User regular
    Less momentum in this episode as it was more about extrapolating on earlier episodes and how Ramse influenced them, but it was still interesting.

    At this point it's hard to deny that this is a self-fulfilling loop though, that corpse must be Cole or at least a Project Splinter subject, which means the virus in its current state only exists because they started time traveling in the first place, and that Goines only began looking at it because of Cole.

    But if it's Cole, it wouldn't explain how they got the first-stage of the virus from his corpse when they're on the third or fourth mutation in Cole's time.

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    Zilla360Zilla360 21st Century. |She/Her| Trans* Woman In Aviators Firing A Bazooka. ⚛️Registered User regular
    At this point it's hard to deny that this is a self-fulfilling loop though, that corpse must be Cole or at least a Project Splinter subject, which means the virus in its current state only exists because they started time traveling in the first place, and that Goines only began looking at it because of Cole.
    Yup, agreed.

    Also:
    Ramse learned Japanese! It's super effective!

    Even complete dunder-clucking meat-heads can learn something, it seems.

    Sucks that all of Jone's muscle have lost faith in her and the project, and now Cole has the worst possible nemesis, a brother that knows how he thinks, and all of his moves.
    That 'Atari' theme cropping up again; time-chess.

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    Zilla360Zilla360 21st Century. |She/Her| Trans* Woman In Aviators Firing A Bazooka. ⚛️Registered User regular
    That was a weird episode.
    Too many cooks paradoxes! Jones Back-story. Weeds in the machine!

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    DoodmannDoodmann Registered User regular
    *Closes eyes while scrolling to bottom of thread to miss spoliers*

    Renewed.

    *Runs out*

    You forgot to add "I should be watching this"

    Whippy wrote: »
    nope nope nope nope abort abort talk about anime
    I like to ART
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    Big DookieBig Dookie Smells great! Houston, TXRegistered User regular
    Yeah I've pretty much given up trying to figure out where this show is going.

    I'm just enjoying the ride at this point.

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    Zilla360Zilla360 21st Century. |She/Her| Trans* Woman In Aviators Firing A Bazooka. ⚛️Registered User regular
    edited April 2015
    Whoa. What a finale. So many WTF moments*. You definitely get the sense they wrote it so it could go either way, depending on the shows renewal.
    *Indoctrinated from birth, long-lived warrior monks/time-babies!

    The machine creates itself through Ramsey being manipulated!

    Cassandra is in 2043, skipping over her own death in the previous time-line, but it seems Olivia wanted and expected this?!

    I'm imagining (perhaps) she (Olivia) had all these women artificially inseminated, taken their kids, and then enslaved the mothers. Totally evil, even without a full understanding of her motivations.

    Zilla360 on
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    Big DookieBig Dookie Smells great! Houston, TXRegistered User regular
    Just watched the finale. Yeah, there was a lot of crazy in this.

    Season 2 has the potential to go completely off the rails.

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    AlphaRomeroAlphaRomero Registered User regular
    Zilla360 wrote: »
    Whoa. What a finale. So many WTF moments*. You definitely get the sense they wrote it so it could go either way, depending on the shows renewal.
    *Indoctrinated from birth, long-lived warrior monks/time-babies!

    The machine creates itself through Ramsey being manipulated!

    Cassandra is in 2043, skipping over her own death in the previous time-line, but it seems Olivia wanted and expected this?!

    I'm imagining (perhaps) she (Olivia) had all these women artificially inseminated, taken their kids, and then enslaved the mothers. Totally evil, even without a full understanding of her motivations.
    Olivia also thought that Ramse died at that point. I guess you could argue that she said history will record that he died there, but obviously Cole and Ramse don't disappear.

    Now the BIG thing becomes, they actually addressed that Ramse and Cole apparently can't age due to their injections (presumably only while outside their own time otherwise they're glossing over that they've created immortality) so Ramse and Cole from 2015 can actually be alive in 2043 and still in good shape.

    So what changed? Cass went to the future, perhaps that's the difference? But things can't change or they don't send Cole back in time, but then Kat already knows Cole is a time traveler from meeting them in her youth, but she doesn't meet them if Cole doesn't go back in time...

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    RichyRichy Registered User regular
    So, now that season 1 is over, what's the thread's verdict? Is this show worth pucking up? Especially for a fan of the movie and of good time-travel fiction in general?

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    Big DookieBig Dookie Smells great! Houston, TXRegistered User regular
    I'd give it a solid thumbs up. There are actually some fairly clever ideas in it that I haven't necessarily seen before, or at least not done this well. There are a few echoes from the movie, but for the most part it does its own thing. It doesn't tie up everything at the end of the season (not even close), but it still ended in a satisfying way that leaves me wanting more instead of just scratching my head.

    Definitely give it a whirl.

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    AlphaRomeroAlphaRomero Registered User regular
    I'd agree, the first few episodes make it seem a bit generic but as it goes on it becomes clear that a lot of thought has been put into the time travel aspect and it gets more and more interesting. There are some missteps but mostly solid.

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    Mego ThorMego Thor "I say thee...NAY!" Registered User regular
    Zilla360 wrote: »
    Whoa. What a finale. So many WTF moments*. You definitely get the sense they wrote it so it could go either way, depending on the shows renewal.
    *Indoctrinated from birth, long-lived warrior monks/time-babies!

    The machine creates itself through Ramsey being manipulated!

    Cassandra is in 2043, skipping over her own death in the previous time-line, but it seems Olivia wanted and expected this?!

    I'm imagining (perhaps) she (Olivia) had all these women artificially inseminated, taken their kids, and then enslaved the mothers. Totally evil, even without a full understanding of her motivations.
    Olivia also thought that Ramse died at that point. I guess you could argue that she said history will record that he died there, but obviously Cole and Ramse don't disappear.

    Now the BIG thing becomes, they actually addressed that Ramse and Cole apparently can't age due to their injections (presumably only while outside their own time otherwise they're glossing over that they've created immortality) so Ramse and Cole from 2015 can actually be alive in 2043 and still in good shape.

    So what changed? Cass went to the future, perhaps that's the difference? But things can't change or they don't send Cole back in time, but then Kat already knows Cole is a time traveler from meeting them in her youth, but she doesn't meet them if Cole doesn't go back in time...

    Very late on catching up on this series.
    Cole should start aging in the present day, since his serum got burnt out during a paradox a few episodes before the finale. Ramse could conceivably make it back to the future the long, slow boring way and be reunited with his kid.

    I'm really glad that Cole and Ramse are going to be working together again, even though the episode spoiled that Ramse wasn't going to die by showing a next season preview of Ramse with an eye-patch during the last commercial break.

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    RichyRichy Registered User regular
    Well, two months after I said I would, I finally watched the first episode.

    WOW. They had me on the edge of my seat in a few places!

    I really love what they did with the concept, and the time travel rules they set up. If they stay consistent with the foundations they laid, it's going to be an interesting thrill ride.

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    RichyRichy Registered User regular
    Still slowly making my way through the series, after life forced me on a few breaks. I'm done episode 7.
    Calling it now: the body they found on the archaeological dig that had the new unknown virus they engineered the plague from was from a post-plague time traveller. Not sure yet if he was sent too far back accidentally or deliberately by the 12 Monkeys.

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    Mego ThorMego Thor "I say thee...NAY!" Registered User regular
    12 Monkeys is back! Good thing my DVR remembered, cause I didn't.

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    Big DookieBig Dookie Smells great! Houston, TXRegistered User regular
    Same here. Haven't watched it yet, but looking forward to it!

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    Mego ThorMego Thor "I say thee...NAY!" Registered User regular
    It was a good episode. I was afraid I wouldn't have any idea what was going on anymore, but they did a good job recapping.

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    Zilla360Zilla360 21st Century. |She/Her| Trans* Woman In Aviators Firing A Bazooka. ⚛️Registered User regular
    Yup. It's back. I saw this a couple of weeks ago, didn't want to comment until now. :)
    Some unlikely enemies having to team up to survive. The enemy of my enemy is my... person who won't kill me right this second?

    I'm amazed that they manage to keep finding spare parts for the time machine after it's damaged/blown up nearly every other week, but then this is the same machine that ensured it's own construction via predestination paradox... Sooo...

    I don't know why they didn't just jump off that bridge in the first place (very 'Prometheus', left and right cease to exist), but then we wouldn't have had that establishing scene...

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    Mego ThorMego Thor "I say thee...NAY!" Registered User regular
    Zilla360 wrote: »
    Yup. It's back. I saw this a couple of weeks ago, didn't want to comment until now. :)
    Some unlikely enemies having to team up to survive. The enemy of my enemy is my... person who won't kill me right this second?

    I'm amazed that they manage to keep finding spare parts for the time machine after it's damaged/blown up nearly every other week, but then this is the same machine that ensured it's own construction via predestination paradox... Sooo...

    I don't know why they didn't just jump off that bridge in the first place (very 'Prometheus', left and right cease to exist), but then we wouldn't have had that establishing scene...

    Plus they had plenty of time to shoot their target before jumping, but I guess main villains don't grow on trees.

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    Zilla360Zilla360 21st Century. |She/Her| Trans* Woman In Aviators Firing A Bazooka. ⚛️Registered User regular
    Well, since time machines can duplicate matter by design, they kind of do... Red trees, red forests... :P ;) :snap:

    The show just hasn't gone there... Yet...

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