Brainiac 8Don't call me Shirley...Registered Userregular
As much as I enjoy the Flash good and bad, It seems like a good time end the Arrowverse. Crisis was a great way to culminate everything the universe had built and it was awesome.
Superman and Lois pretty much ignores the wider Arrowverse anyway so it can stay its own thing.
This season of Flash feels like it's two teams of writers fighting each other.
The Speed Force wants to team up with the Flash to kill the New Forces. No, the Speed Force wants to team up with the New Forces to kill the Flash.
Kramer's leaving. No she isn't. And there's even a scene where she references past actors who left the show.
With 2-3 of the original cast leaving this year, and two others' contracts are under negotiation, they should really put that show to bed in season 8.
Ending the show would be a good way to reset the entire CW universe. Black Lightening, Supergirl, and Arrow are over, while Batwoman isn't long for this world, so next year would be a good way for Barry to reset everything and the CW can start with a clean slate.
Legends can live in its own universe with their whole shtick, but not sure how they can keep Superman and Lois around.
Superman and Lois is pretty much it's own thing right now. Sure, it's got the people who played them from the Arrow-verse, but they've used literally no one else, and heck, I don't even think Kara has been mentioned. It's not referencing other things in the universe either.
Just move all the good characters to Legends of Tomorrow
Eh, that cast is way too bloated right now. They need to lose about half of them before they start adding more people. It would be hilarious if LoT was the last show standing from the Arrow-verse though.
I wouldn't mind if Alice joined the legends. They have/had worse "lost causes" on the team. I hate her story arc now but shes kind of the best actress on the show.
They should just have the legends do a time paradox, get a second ship, and start a second team with stragglers from other shows. Killer frost full time with Diggle. Get Danny Trejo to guest star for the season arc, reintroducing universe hopping to the earth 1 crowd again. Constantine him into a regular. I am not up on black lightning, but get the two sisters, they are great together.
Getting swamp thing to join legends would create a ton of good will after scuttling that show so hard and reairing its corpse on the cw.
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Zilla36021st Century. |She/Her|Trans* Woman In Aviators Firing A Bazooka. ⚛️Registered Userregular
Batwoman:
I can't believe Luke got shot like that. Though I guess it's all in service of really ramming home that ACAB messaging and radicalising his character.
Really the only reason I'm still watching this terrible show is because of the eternal mystery of where Alice goes to do her laundry/dry cleaning; her outfits are always amazingly clean for someone who seems to live in either a sewer and/or a crashed/abandoned subway train. :P
I wouldn't mind if Alice joined the legends. They have/had worse "lost causes" on the team. I hate her story arc now but shes kind of the best actress on the show.
They should just have the legends do a time paradox, get a second ship, and start a second team with stragglers from other shows. Killer frost full time with Diggle. Get Danny Trejo to guest star for the season arc, reintroducing universe hopping to the earth 1 crowd again. Constantine him into a regular. I am not up on black lightning, but get the two sisters, they are great together.
Getting swamp thing to join legends would create a ton of good will after scuttling that show so hard and reairing its corpse on the cw.
You could parallel the beginning of Legends with Rip Hunter by having Sara Lance gathering a bunch of heroes and villains throughout time and dimensions on a rooftop being like "our team fucked up the time stream so bad that we need a second special ops team"
Sara picking Diggle as team lead is obvious and then he starts pulling people he's worked with in the past to assemble the equivalent of X-Force. You could keep Luke and Alice and jettison the rest of Batwoman. Pull in the daughters from Black Lightening now that they're ending. Hell, bring in one or two characters from the Canaries show that was never picked up.
Not both daughters, just Anissa but also Grace. Jennifer/JJ can hang out on the Painkiller spin-off if that gets picked up.
I'd say Dreamer from Supergirl, but if Diggle leads then they already have a Green Lantern and Brainy would be redundant with Luke there. M'gann maybe, Alex if they need a tank.
Not both daughters, just Anissa but also Grace. Jennifer/JJ can hang out on the Painkiller spin-off if that gets picked up.
I'd say Dreamer from Supergirl, but if Diggle leads then they already have a Green Lantern and Brainy would be redundant with Luke there. M'gann maybe, Alex if they need a tank.
I don’t really watch BL or Supergirl, so I don’t know who they could bring from those shows. MartianManhunter always seems like a good character from the crossovers, but not sure if he’s too over powered for this type of show.
Not both daughters, just Anissa but also Grace. Jennifer/JJ can hang out on the Painkiller spin-off if that gets picked up.
I'd say Dreamer from Supergirl, but if Diggle leads then they already have a Green Lantern and Brainy would be redundant with Luke there. M'gann maybe, Alex if they need a tank.
Brainy's never redundant and is built-in comic relief. Also, CW needs to do something about making him a villain for a season - it may as well be Legends.
Looks like The Flash is getting a five episode event between seasons this fall.
“The idea for The Flash is that [Eric] Wallace and Greg [Berlanti] come together and will talk about other heroes, heroes in the CW-verse will come together in each individual episode. It might not quite be a crossover, but it will have a crossover type feel, with the introduction of all these characters. And Riverdale, we’re waiting for Roberto [Aguirre-Sacasa] to come back to us on how he plans to make those five episodes even more special than usual.”
Though Pedowitz declined later in the call to clarify which superheroes would be showing up on The Flash, whether it would be current superheroes, or those whose shows may be done (Green Arrow or Supergirl, perhaps?) he did add that, “We do know there are feelers out to a couple of the actors.”
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Finally got "Captain Luthor's" backstory... and it is not at all what I thought it was going to be. Like, we knew that he and Lois were in love on his Earth. They were married, they have a daughter. And both he and their daughter watched her get heat-visioned on live tv after revealing that Superman was weak to kryptonite. Also him and his daughter are engineers; they like to build stuff, like his suit of armor in the first couple of episodes. Oh and his actual name is John Henry Irons. You know, Steel.
Finally got "Captain Luthor's" backstory... and it is not at all what I thought it was going to be. Like, we knew that he and Lois were in love on his Earth. They were married, they have a daughter. And both he and their daughter watched her get heat-visioned on live tv after revealing that Superman was weak to kryptonite. Also him and his daughter are engineers; they like to build stuff, like his suit of armor in the first couple of episodes. Oh and his actual name is John Henry Irons. You know, Steel.
FFFFFFF-
Yeah, I liked this show from the start but it's really taken off in the last two episodes. The boys are growing into strong characters, the central conflict is a lot more interesting than it originally seemed, and the cast is excellent.
Theory for the rest of the season:
1. Morgan Edge is Zod. That's how he knows so much about Kryptonite. Like Man of Steel, his ultimate plan is to replace humanity with Neo-Kryptonians.
2. Irons eventually joins the team wholesale and finds out Superman's identity. It turns out that's the real difference between this Earth and his—Clark has a family. Jonathan becomes Iron's apprentice the same way Jordan is Clark's.
3. General Lane will die saving Clark's life. Without his advocacy, the government turns on Clark. That probably leads to using those superpowered kids as soldiers against him.
4. Jordan will use his powers publicly in the season finale but won't take up the Superboy mantle until next season or the one after.
5. Sarah will find out about Jordan and keep it to herself.
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Brainiac 8Don't call me Shirley...Registered Userregular
edited June 2021
Good theories. The theory I have is this:
I really like your theory that Morgan Edge is Zod. I hadn't considered that. I'm thinking that he is using the something to crack into the phantom zone and bringing over the phantoms of Kryptonian criminals to inhabit human bodeis and this is how they are registering as Kryptonians.
And yes, this show is amazing so far. I like all of the actors. The boys are interesting and I like their relationship. The last episode with Lois snapping was really good and brought a lot of heartbreak into the mix. It hit home what she was going through.
Several years ago my wife had a miscarriage and it definitely brings with it a lot of pain and guilt, especially when it comes to my wife and how she dealt with it. The scene at the end when Lois was talking to Jon, she was bawling.
I also 100% think that he will end up working alongside Lois and Clark in the near future. Very interesting character indeed and one of my favorite DC characters come to life.
I don't think it explicitly says crossover, I think its 2 sets of 5 episodes? I'm for it, been meaning to check out riverdale, I hear good things?
Feels a lot like they are scrambling for programming after supergirl being gone, and covid wrecking production on new projects. I'm curious if the episodes will be "what if" style, or if its literally just "we got the flash sets and barry, lets get the actors from the new shows to do bottle episodes an introduce before the series start to buy some time"
Fall is sweeps, right? Is there still such a thing as sweeps week?
In regards to Superman & Lois' most recent episode
I kind of hope that Jonathan never develops powers. It would really take away from the speech that Lois gave to him.
These last two episodes convinced me that he won't.
I do think he's going to become a superhero in his own right though—does Steel ever have a sidekick in the comics?
Will we ever learn why Jordan inherited powers but he didn't? Or, for that matter, why AI Jor-El was clearly wrong that Jordan wouldn't actually develop powers.
Jor-Bot said Jordan had such little ability to absorb solar radiation that his powers would manifest randomly and he would likely never be able to control them.
That is not what we've seen since. Jordan has trouble controlling his powers because they're new, but he can learn to use them on command. They're not random either—his strength and hearing have steadily improved. Heat vision triggers whenever Jordan's distressed, so while he can't control it yet, the power is always there.
I'm guessing it's a retcon. The plot wouldn't work as well if Jordan was a normal human 99% of the time.
Oh, another season finale theory:
The twins will defeat Leslie Larr by working together. That might include Jordan revealing his powers to Sarah, intentionally or not.
Also, I think Leslie is Ursa/Faora.
Mancingtom on
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Brainiac 8Don't call me Shirley...Registered Userregular
I'm of the mind that I really do hop that Jon stays normal so he and Lois can further bond over that.
Seeing Jordan continue to get better at using his abilities has been great so far.
Well, that episode was full of "Oh, shit" moments.
I legit thought General Lane was going to die when he went into that house. Seeing Jonathan call out his grandfather's bullshit and then defend his mother cements him as a fantastic character.
It's also good to see Jordan become more accepting of his powers. All that's left is speed and flight now, right? I don't think the scene between him and Clark hit as hard as last week's between Lois and Jonathan, but it was still good. Hoechlin sold the horror and helplessness of seeing your child in pain.
It always seems out-of-character to me whenever Superman becomes indignant over governments hoarding kryptonite or developing anti-kryptonian weapons. Comes across as a source of cheap drama.
Between mind control, tar kryptonite, clones, multiverse shenanigans, time travel, and Phantom Zone fuckers, people have plenty of legitimate reasons to believe such preventative measures are necessary.
If anything, Superman would be concerned if people weren't taking the possibility of a kryptonian attack seriously. He's even acknowledged that in the comics at times:
As for Jonathan, I'm glad people are optimistic about him becoming a hero, but his character reminds me too much of Joel Kent from Superman & Batman: Generations.
About Morgan Edge's final words in today's episode:
I suspect he might be H'el. H'el is the product of a project Superman's father was working on before he knew Krypton was in danger. Colony ships that could grow kryptonian clones, age them to adulthood, and program them with basic instructions on how to survive and create a society. The reason why they would go to all this trouble is because the Religion Guild, one of the five major political parties that governed Krypton, considered manned space travel to be immoral.
Superman's father, Jor-El, sent one of these colony ships to Earth as a test run for the ships he was building for his son and niece (he also sent one with a dog and another with a monkey, but we won't get into that now). The ship wasn't intended to be used for its original purpose, but exposure to a cosmic anomaly caused one of the cloning pods to spontaneously activate, resulting in H'el being born.
Because it was Jor-El who developed the technology that gave him life, H'el thinks of Jor-El as his father and Superman as his brother.
As for x-kryptonite, I'm starting to suspect it might not be a variant that Supergirl created by accident using a home chemistry set like it is in the comics. I think it might be kryptonian brain matter that was flash-mineralized when Krypton exploded. That would explain why that one guy said he was already dead.
About Morgan Edge's final words in today's episode:
I suspect he might be H'el. H'el is the product of a project Superman's father was working on before he knew Krypton was in danger. Colony ships that could grow kryptonian clones, age them to adulthood, and program them with basic instructions on how to survive and create a society. The reason why they would go to all this trouble is because the Religion Guild, one of the five major political parties that governed Krypton, considered manned space travel to be immoral.
Superman's father, Jor-El, sent one of these colony ships to Earth as a test run for the ships he was building for his son and niece (he also sent one with a dog and another with a monkey, but we won't get into that now). The ship wasn't intended to be used for its original purpose, but exposure to a cosmic anomaly caused one of the cloning pods to spontaneously activate, resulting in H'el being born.
Because it was Jor-El who developed the technology that gave him life, H'el thinks of Jor-El as his father and Superman as his brother.
As for x-kryptonite, I'm starting to suspect it might not be a variant that Supergirl created by accident using a home chemistry set like it is in the comics. I think it might be kryptonian brain matter that was flash-mineralized when Krypton exploded. That would explain why that one guy said he was already dead.
I'm more concerned with the fact that security for the Kryptonite weapons was so lax that any grunt could walk through the door and take them.
Having anti-kryptonian weapons is the only militarily responsible thing to do. Doubly so when you have known hostile kryptonians around.
It's also sensible to make sure Superman doesn't know what they are, as he's still so powerful that the element of surprise is still the only way they'd have a chance against him. He can dodge bullets if he thinks he has to, he could blow gas away, etc.
The problem is that they continually give the job to maniacs who invariably decide a pre-emptive strike on Good Superman (usually while he's trying to save the world) is the best play.
I'm reminded of the Justice League stories where Batman has plans for taking down every other member of the League. When confronted over it, he defends it as the only sane thing to do, and assumes that they have similar plans to stop him if needed. When he's told they don't, he assumes they're either lying or fools.
I'm more concerned with the fact that security for the Kryptonite weapons was so lax that any grunt could walk through the door and take them.
Having anti-kryptonian weapons is the only militarily responsible thing to do. Doubly so when you have known hostile kryptonians around.
It's also sensible to make sure Superman doesn't know what they are, as he's still so powerful that the element of surprise is still the only way they'd have a chance against him. He can dodge bullets if he thinks he has to, he could blow gas away, etc.
The problem is that they continually give the job to maniacs who invariably decide a pre-emptive strike on Good Superman (usually while he's trying to save the world) is the best play.
Agreed.
I'm reminded of the Justice League stories where Batman has plans for taking down every other member of the League. When confronted over it, he defends it as the only sane thing to do, and assumes that they have similar plans to stop him if needed. When he's told they don't, he assumes they're either lying or fools.
This happened to Xavier when he did it. I don't know why comic writers only use his for something to make characters look bad, and nobody brings up that it makes sense. How many times has CW Flash been brainwashed into being evil? Supergirl was evil temporarily in her first season, the season where numerous villains were evil Kryptonians.
I'm reminded of the Justice League stories where Batman has plans for taking down every other member of the League. When confronted over it, he defends it as the only sane thing to do, and assumes that they have similar plans to stop him if needed. When he's told they don't, he assumes they're either lying or fools.
Last time they did that, they even went so far as to have Batman develop a countermeasure to himself, then use Mad Hatter tech to erase his own memory of it.
I like to imagine the only things inside the box are a sticky note that says, "Your parents are dead," and a normal pistol.
I like to imagine the only things inside the box are a sticky note that says, "Your parents are dead," and a normal pistol.
Given that time travel is a known thing in the comics, a deepfake 'proving' that he's the one who killed his parents would probably actually do the job.
For this show, I think Clark's anger is less about developing kryptonite weapons and more that they trust him enough to tell him. Saying "hey, Superman, we're making kryptonite weapons in case we run into another Zod or you get mind-whammied again" is a world apart from "hey, we made kryptonite weapons because you scare us and we'd really like the power to kill you whenever we want."
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ShadowenSnores in the morningLoserdomRegistered Userregular
I'm reminded of the Justice League stories where Batman has plans for taking down every other member of the League. When confronted over it, he defends it as the only sane thing to do, and assumes that they have similar plans to stop him if needed. When he's told they don't, he assumes they're either lying or fools.
Last time they did that, they even went so far as to have Batman develop a countermeasure to himself, then use Mad Hatter tech to erase his own memory of it.
I like to imagine the only things inside the box are a sticky note that says, "Your parents are dead," and a normal pistol.
My favorite part of that sequence is that, IIRC, there's nothing in Wonder Woman's case because she doesn't have a weakness that can be exploited like that.
So Bruce made a case with her logo on it and had Superman open it just so the dramatic reveal could be nothing. (His actual explanation being, if Wonder Woman goes evil, only Superman really has a chance of stopping her.)
Super-extra Batman is one of my favorite takes on Batmen.
My favorite part of that sequence is that, IIRC, there's nothing in Wonder Woman's case because she doesn't have a weakness that can be exploited like that.
Clearly the Woman Woman box should have contained a metal plate, a damp sponge, and an electric wire.
Or perhaps a bottle of anesthetic perfume.
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Superman and Lois pretty much ignores the wider Arrowverse anyway so it can stay its own thing.
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Eh, that cast is way too bloated right now. They need to lose about half of them before they start adding more people. It would be hilarious if LoT was the last show standing from the Arrow-verse though.
Get Luke from Batwoman for tech, Wally West as the meta, John Diggle as team leader, Alice as the wild card, and Lex Luthor as the shady benefactor.
Shit, bring in Ryan Choi because he was supposed to be important and everyone seemed to forget about him.
Coran Attack!
They should just have the legends do a time paradox, get a second ship, and start a second team with stragglers from other shows. Killer frost full time with Diggle. Get Danny Trejo to guest star for the season arc, reintroducing universe hopping to the earth 1 crowd again. Constantine him into a regular. I am not up on black lightning, but get the two sisters, they are great together.
Really the only reason I'm still watching this terrible show is because of the eternal mystery of where Alice goes to do her laundry/dry cleaning; her outfits are always amazingly clean for someone who seems to live in either a sewer and/or a crashed/abandoned subway train. :P
You could parallel the beginning of Legends with Rip Hunter by having Sara Lance gathering a bunch of heroes and villains throughout time and dimensions on a rooftop being like "our team fucked up the time stream so bad that we need a second special ops team"
Sara picking Diggle as team lead is obvious and then he starts pulling people he's worked with in the past to assemble the equivalent of X-Force. You could keep Luke and Alice and jettison the rest of Batwoman. Pull in the daughters from Black Lightening now that they're ending. Hell, bring in one or two characters from the Canaries show that was never picked up.
Coran Attack!
I'd say Dreamer from Supergirl, but if Diggle leads then they already have a Green Lantern and Brainy would be redundant with Luke there. M'gann maybe, Alex if they need a tank.
I don’t really watch BL or Supergirl, so I don’t know who they could bring from those shows. MartianManhunter always seems like a good character from the crossovers, but not sure if he’s too over powered for this type of show.
Coran Attack!
Brainy's never redundant and is built-in comic relief. Also, CW needs to do something about making him a villain for a season - it may as well be Legends.
Looks like The Flash is getting a five episode event between seasons this fall.
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FFFFFFF-
Yeah, I liked this show from the start but it's really taken off in the last two episodes. The boys are growing into strong characters, the central conflict is a lot more interesting than it originally seemed, and the cast is excellent.
Theory for the rest of the season:
2. Irons eventually joins the team wholesale and finds out Superman's identity. It turns out that's the real difference between this Earth and his—Clark has a family. Jonathan becomes Iron's apprentice the same way Jordan is Clark's.
3. General Lane will die saving Clark's life. Without his advocacy, the government turns on Clark. That probably leads to using those superpowered kids as soldiers against him.
4. Jordan will use his powers publicly in the season finale but won't take up the Superboy mantle until next season or the one after.
5. Sarah will find out about Jordan and keep it to herself.
And yes, this show is amazing so far. I like all of the actors. The boys are interesting and I like their relationship. The last episode with Lois snapping was really good and brought a lot of heartbreak into the mix. It hit home what she was going through.
I also 100% think that he will end up working alongside Lois and Clark in the near future. Very interesting character indeed and one of my favorite DC characters come to life.
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I don't think it explicitly says crossover, I think its 2 sets of 5 episodes? I'm for it, been meaning to check out riverdale, I hear good things?
Feels a lot like they are scrambling for programming after supergirl being gone, and covid wrecking production on new projects. I'm curious if the episodes will be "what if" style, or if its literally just "we got the flash sets and barry, lets get the actors from the new shows to do bottle episodes an introduce before the series start to buy some time"
Fall is sweeps, right? Is there still such a thing as sweeps week?
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I do think he's going to become a superhero in his own right though—does Steel ever have a sidekick in the comics?
Will we ever learn why Jordan inherited powers but he didn't? Or, for that matter, why AI Jor-El was clearly wrong that Jordan wouldn't actually develop powers.
Jon
That is not what we've seen since. Jordan has trouble controlling his powers because they're new, but he can learn to use them on command. They're not random either—his strength and hearing have steadily improved. Heat vision triggers whenever Jordan's distressed, so while he can't control it yet, the power is always there.
I'm guessing it's a retcon. The plot wouldn't work as well if Jordan was a normal human 99% of the time.
Oh, another season finale theory:
Also, I think Leslie is Ursa/Faora.
Seeing Jordan continue to get better at using his abilities has been great so far.
Honestly, this show is so good.
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It's doing a great job of avoiding the common CW tropes:
Relationship drama
Monster of the Week
People keeping secrets from each other that, if revealed, would resolve the season long conflict
Coran Attack!
It's also good to see Jordan become more accepting of his powers. All that's left is speed and flight now, right? I don't think the scene between him and Clark hit as hard as last week's between Lois and Jonathan, but it was still good. Hoechlin sold the horror and helplessness of seeing your child in pain.
Nice to see that they're finaly giving Luke something to do.
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Between mind control, tar kryptonite, clones, multiverse shenanigans, time travel, and Phantom Zone fuckers, people have plenty of legitimate reasons to believe such preventative measures are necessary.
If anything, Superman would be concerned if people weren't taking the possibility of a kryptonian attack seriously. He's even acknowledged that in the comics at times:
As for Jonathan, I'm glad people are optimistic about him becoming a hero, but his character reminds me too much of Joel Kent from Superman & Batman: Generations.
Superman's father, Jor-El, sent one of these colony ships to Earth as a test run for the ships he was building for his son and niece (he also sent one with a dog and another with a monkey, but we won't get into that now). The ship wasn't intended to be used for its original purpose, but exposure to a cosmic anomaly caused one of the cloning pods to spontaneously activate, resulting in H'el being born.
Because it was Jor-El who developed the technology that gave him life, H'el thinks of Jor-El as his father and Superman as his brother.
As for x-kryptonite, I'm starting to suspect it might not be a variant that Supergirl created by accident using a home chemistry set like it is in the comics. I think it might be kryptonian brain matter that was flash-mineralized when Krypton exploded. That would explain why that one guy said he was already dead.
It's possible Jonathan was unknowingly exposed to gold kryptonite at a young age. That's a variant that permanently removes a kryptonian's powers.
Would also explain the actor switch, but that's less of a concern.
I'd really love a cameo from Melissa next season; she doesn't even need to do anything Super, just have her show up for Christmas or something.
Having anti-kryptonian weapons is the only militarily responsible thing to do. Doubly so when you have known hostile kryptonians around.
It's also sensible to make sure Superman doesn't know what they are, as he's still so powerful that the element of surprise is still the only way they'd have a chance against him. He can dodge bullets if he thinks he has to, he could blow gas away, etc.
The problem is that they continually give the job to maniacs who invariably decide a pre-emptive strike on Good Superman (usually while he's trying to save the world) is the best play.
I'm reminded of the Justice League stories where Batman has plans for taking down every other member of the League. When confronted over it, he defends it as the only sane thing to do, and assumes that they have similar plans to stop him if needed. When he's told they don't, he assumes they're either lying or fools.
Agreed.
This happened to Xavier when he did it. I don't know why comic writers only use his for something to make characters look bad, and nobody brings up that it makes sense. How many times has CW Flash been brainwashed into being evil? Supergirl was evil temporarily in her first season, the season where numerous villains were evil Kryptonians.
Last time they did that, they even went so far as to have Batman develop a countermeasure to himself, then use Mad Hatter tech to erase his own memory of it.
I like to imagine the only things inside the box are a sticky note that says, "Your parents are dead," and a normal pistol.
My favorite part of that sequence is that, IIRC, there's nothing in Wonder Woman's case because she doesn't have a weakness that can be exploited like that.
So Bruce made a case with her logo on it and had Superman open it just so the dramatic reveal could be nothing. (His actual explanation being, if Wonder Woman goes evil, only Superman really has a chance of stopping her.)
Super-extra Batman is one of my favorite takes on Batmen.
Clearly the Woman Woman box should have contained a metal plate, a damp sponge, and an electric wire.
Or perhaps a bottle of anesthetic perfume.
That flips the secret identity trope on its head and adds something to their relationship past standard teen romance beats.
That would completely ruin the show for me because it's not just his own secret to share.