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The Order 1886: Cinematic dick flopping simulator

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  • tehjestertehjester Tampa, FlRegistered User regular
    I like this game when I'm actually allowed to play it. And there are quite a few design elements that are just plain weird during actual gameplay. Like QTEs that are interjected into what is clearly a cutscene. Not needed. This game really suffers from what the latest Tomb Raider suffered from, gameplay then stop for a cutscene, gameplay then stop for a sequenced event that probably doesn't need to be there, move three feet another sequence, move three feet for another cutscene, then gameplay! Which is terrible, cause I really do like this game. It's gorgeous, the characters are, at least an hour into the game, intriguing enough to keep me moving forward and curious to who might actually be the bad guy though I'm sure I know who it's going to be in the end.

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  • InterpreterInterpreter Registered User regular
    My brother has a PS4 and I was interested in trying this out. I offered to split the cost of the game with him, but he declined based on the poor reviews. Methinks they may have botched the marketing and pricing hard on this...

    I'm curious about this. It's priced the same as all other new PS4 games(exceptions being indie games and remakes of older PS3 games), so ignoring the poor reviews why should a new PS4 game not cost the same as other new PS4 games? If it's the game length, then does that mean all short games should cost less, and longer games cost more?

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  • tastydonutstastydonuts Registered User regular
    My brother has a PS4 and I was interested in trying this out. I offered to split the cost of the game with him, but he declined based on the poor reviews. Methinks they may have botched the marketing and pricing hard on this...

    I'm curious about this. It's priced the same as all other new PS4 games(exceptions being indie games and remakes of older PS3 games), so ignoring the poor reviews why should a new PS4 game not cost the same as other new PS4 games? If it's the game length, then does that mean all short games should cost less, and longer games cost more?

    The standard MSRP for current-gen AAA game has been $60 for a very long time and the reasoning behind the "is this worth $60?" crowd is one of those things that you probably shouldn't beat yourself on the head over trying to figure out. Seriously.

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  • ShinyRedKnightShinyRedKnight Registered User regular
    edited February 2015
    I got my hands on the game. Liking it so far. Seems to be a slower paced Gears of War/ Uncharted hybrid... which is actually something I apparently enjoy. The weapons are excellent so far, and the difficulty balance seems just right on hard. Namely, I like that the enemies take just a little less damage than I do. One of the biggest flaws of Uncharted and Gears of War was the bullet sponge enemies, here it is just right. The AI could be better though. Honestly, hard should be normal. If you get this game, start there!

    Overall, the game is great so far, I'm in the midst of chapter 3 after about two/ two and a half hours.

    It looks like the sequel is already being planned:

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  • Knight_Knight_ Dead Dead Dead Registered User regular
    I mean yea. you can't make money on a single game in this day and age. gotta reuse that engine and assets!

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  • ShinyRedKnightShinyRedKnight Registered User regular
    Honestly, with the way the game was criticized, I was worried that all the assets would have gone to waste with no sequel.

    The flaws in this game can be polished. That's how Uncharted started. I'm glad that all the good work will continue, with a chance for the flaws to be corrected.

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  • ViskodViskod Registered User regular
    If they actually get to make a sequel and deliver a game with more "game" to it. That would be great.

    Derrick
  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    There's plenty of game there. More game than cinematic. Would I like them to pad out the sequel with more hallways of dudes to shoot? Sure. But what they gave us in this game was fine. I did not feel robbed of dudes to shoot.

    Skull2185
  • Skull2185Skull2185 Registered User regular
    Nice to hear they're going ahead with a sequel. I quite enjoyed this story, and am interested to see what happens next.

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  • akajaybayakajaybay Registered User regular
    edited February 2015
    I enjoyed it well enough, I am usually pretty open to flawed story heavy games.
    The lycans repeatedly running at you in a warehouse environment over and over was pretty poor, and that got used twice. The QTE boss-like fights were fine. Looked really good, had pretty good voice acting (although with a really strange amount of heavy breathing. A lot of it) It felt like they developed an interesting backdrop and world that I wanted to know more about, and they could have obliged on that end a bit more. The audio logs you pick up seemed oddly pointless rather than being actual interesting bits of information you wanted to find. Same with a lot of the stuff they let you pick up and rotate around in your wrist a bunch. And the shooting stuff was passable. It's pretty constrained etc, but as above I'm not really coming for the shooting primarily anyway. Would be cool if they managed an improved sequel. Overall this one was a bit meh for me.

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  • reVersereVerse Attack and Dethrone God Registered User regular
    akajaybay wrote: »
    I enjoyed it well enough, I am usually pretty open to flawed story heavy games.
    The lycans repeatedly running at you in a warehouse environment over and over was pretty poor, and that got used twice. The QTE boss-like fights were fine. Looked really good, had pretty good voice acting (although with a really strange amount of heavy breathing. A lot of it) It felt like the developed an interesting backdrop and world that I wanted to know more about, and they could have obliged on that end a bit more. The audio logs you pick up seemed oddly pointless rather than being actual interesting bits of information you wanted to find. Same with a lot of the stuff they let you pick up and rotate around in tour wrist a bunch. And the shooting stuff was passable. It's pretty constrained etc, but as above I'm not really coming for the shooting primarily anyway. Would be cool if they managed an improved sequel. Overall this one was a bit meh for me.

    Looks like someone didn't get their payola.

    akajaybayDark Raven X
  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    The girl, Iggy or whatever they called her, breathed very heavily. She was the one I noticed it on, and I was assuming that was intentional.

  • akajaybayakajaybay Registered User regular
    Galahad did his fair share of heavy breathing as well. Either oh god I'm in bad shape heavy breathing, or I am furious, you can tell by how I'm breathing.
    It's not a serious complaint, it just became a jokey thing my wife and I noticed as it popped up more and more as it went on.

  • Blackbird SR-71CBlackbird SR-71C Registered User regular
    -Loki- wrote: »
    Spaffy wrote: »
    Kinda weird in that the only people in the thread who have actually played it think it's awesome...?

    As opposed to the majority of the reviewers, who only looked at the game case before writing the verdict.

    Also, Giant Bomb quick looks, LPs on youtube etc. etc.

    I've stated my opinion (for the record, I don't think it's a bad game myself).

    It's almost like everyone playing it has differing opinions.

    This really does seem like a case of the game just not clicking with the mainstream reviewers. It's not like this board has never had people with loving adoration for a badly reviewed game before.

    Fair enough but then I'd like if people wouldn't go "None of the people shitting on this game have actually played it, can't take them seriously", even if just implied.

    Would be cool if neither the people liking this game nor the people disliking it had to keep getting bashed.

    What am I even saying, it's the internet.

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  • Skull2185Skull2185 Registered User regular
    edited February 2015
    Nice post from Gabe about this game. Pretty much sums up what everyone who's played and enjoyed the game thinks about it.

    Though, he's confused about the Blackwater. I was under the impression that it's a mixture of water from The Holy Grail and that specific Knight's blood. Am I wrong? I thought they mentioned it in the game somewhere.

    Well
    It's definitely the Knight's blood anyway. Lafayette bleeds into his vial once he takes up the mantle of Perceval. I'm almost positive they drink from the grail, though.

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  • Dark Raven XDark Raven X Laugh hard, run fast, be kindRegistered User regular
    Viskod wrote: »
    If they actually get to make a sequel and deliver a game with more "game" to it. That would be great.

    It's a tricky balance. No one can fault Order 1886's art direction, it is top notch. But to keep up the Gears of War comparison - Gears 2 put much less emphasis on it's awesome world, you spent the majority of the game (or what felt like it...) underground, fighting through bland cave after cave. And the gameplay was great, felt like an improvement on the already good first game. But I was so bored the whole time.

    I'd want an Order sequel to have more combat, obviously, but not at the expensive of the art. And if the first game's ratio of development time to content is anything to go by, these guys ain't great at turning their concept into content. According to Ru Weerasuriya they started working on it in 2010. Is it weird to say I almost hope they cut stuff for DLC? Cause to only have this much to show for 5 years of work is not great!

    Oh brilliant
  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    Gears (the entire series) has much better pacing. And I'm not just talking about going from cutscenes to gameplay. I'm talking about the pace of the variety of gameplay. Gears mixes in vehicle levels, alternate paths, co-op, and other varieties of gameplay mechanics so that when you progress from level to level it isn't a stale experience.

    The biggest fault I can find with The Order is that of how formulaic it is with it's pattern of Cutscene-Level-Cutscene-Level. And other than one stand-out stealth mission, all the rest of the game is just corridor shooting. There's not much variety.

    Using Half-Life 2 as the prime example of the best paced video game ever made, that game also has a healthy mix of vehicles, puzzle solving, shooting, storytelling, and exploration.

    Pacing is so much more than just the transitions from cinematics to gameplay. A well paced game will introduce new gameplay mechanics throughout the entire length of the game so that the experience never becomes stale or predictable.

  • akajaybayakajaybay Registered User regular
    edited February 2015
    It kind of felt like there was an act missing.End game plot talk
    It seemed a bit odd there wasn't a section of taking down Hastings screwing up the India company's plans to some greater degree before moving onto the Lucan confrontation.
    The resolution of the Igraine relationship could probably be left dangling without it being too big a deal. They had the Lafayette moment in brothel. But it seemed strange to leave the Hastings unresolved. They've already got the hooded man that Percival had been meeting to use as a future hook and the India company wouldn't have been completely defeated etc.

    akajaybay on
  • ShinyRedKnightShinyRedKnight Registered User regular
    Viskod wrote: »
    If they actually get to make a sequel and deliver a game with more "game" to it. That would be great.

    It's a tricky balance. No one can fault Order 1886's art direction, it is top notch. But to keep up the Gears of War comparison - Gears 2 put much less emphasis on it's awesome world, you spent the majority of the game (or what felt like it...) underground, fighting through bland cave after cave. And the gameplay was great, felt like an improvement on the already good first game. But I was so bored the whole time.

    I'd want an Order sequel to have more combat, obviously, but not at the expensive of the art. And if the first game's ratio of development time to content is anything to go by, these guys ain't great at turning their concept into content. According to Ru Weerasuriya they started working on it in 2010. Is it weird to say I almost hope they cut stuff for DLC? Cause to only have this much to show for 5 years of work is not great!

    Yeah this is what's on my mind. That balance is so key here. I mean we have arguably the most technically refined AAA game on consoles, in terms of graphics, sound, and stability. The fact that there are practically no glitches in today's industry is also a major thing to take note of. Games are complex today, it is so easy to slip up when trying to hit all those points. Adding multiplayer or an open world makes that much harder. At this point in the generation, I honestly do not think RAD could have achieved such a beautiful game in terms of art, graphics, sound, and overall stability, if they also had to work on multiplayer or more open/complex level design. Every added mode of gameplay, every extra detail in an open level design, is an extra point where things can go wrong and where the team has to divert attention from the overall presentation.

    That being said, I do not think it would be as difficult to hit that balance for the next round. However, I think they ought to emphasize core gameplay mechanics as a way to add meat. Namely, they should work with the foundation they already have. The weapons are incredibly fun and varied, give us more options level to level to utilize different weapons in a way that makes the battles more varied. Take the inspection features and gadgets and turn them into important puzzle challenges similar to the Arkham games. Make melee more varied by either adding full control or balancing the QTEs with more action similar to God of War, and make that the basis of any stealth sections.

    Honestly, I think this game (franchise now?) can be the next Uncharted. The original Uncharted was received much better praise, but it had serious faults as well.

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  • ChanceChance Registered User regular
    Regarding the Lycan combat...
    There are two types of lycan encounters - the boss fights (see: fighting Liquid Ocelot on top of Outer Haven in MGS4), and the lesser lycan shooting galleries. The lesser lycan combat is, 100% the "clever girl" sequence from Dead Space 2 - which was a fantastic bloody sequence. I don't feel it was introduced as effectively in The Order as it was in DS2, but I feel like it's a really nice interpretation of how a pack of giant wolves would try to fight you - hanging back, dashing in for a quick swipe and falling back again until you're weak enough to go for the neck-bite - and when they go for the neck bite, it looks amazing as Galahad struggles against them and the thing snaps its neck up, taking a bloody chunk of you with it.

    Like the clever girl sequence, it feels a bit overwhelming at first - but once you get a handle on the mechanics, you really feel like you're hunting these beasts and defeating them with your wits (and quick reflexes).

    I really enjoyed it. It's worth arguing that it doesn't live up to the (mere hint) of the game we got with that initial trailer, but I still think it was a wise appropriation of proven-effective mechanics that paid handsome dividends.

    'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
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  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    Chance wrote: »
    Regarding the Lycan combat...
    There are two types of lycan encounters - the boss fights (see: fighting Liquid Ocelot on top of Outer Haven in MGS4), and the lesser lycan shooting galleries. The lesser lycan combat is, 100% the "clever girl" sequence from Dead Space 2 - which was a fantastic bloody sequence. I don't feel it was introduced as effectively in The Order as it was in DS2, but I feel like it's a really nice interpretation of how a pack of giant wolves would try to fight you - hanging back, dashing in for a quick swipe and falling back again until you're weak enough to go for the neck-bite - and when they go for the neck bite, it looks amazing as Galahad struggles against them and the thing snaps its neck up, taking a bloody chunk of you with it.

    Like the clever girl sequence, it feels a bit overwhelming at first - but once you get a handle on the mechanics, you really feel like you're hunting these beasts and defeating them with your wits (and quick reflexes).

    I really enjoyed it. It's worth arguing that it doesn't live up to the (mere hint) of the game we got with that initial trailer, but I still think it was a wise appropriation of proven-effective mechanics that paid handsome dividends.

    I too was reminded of that sequence.
    But it was way scarier in Dead Space 2. A combination of slower movement mechanics, darker environments, and better enemy AI all made the Clever Girl encounters so much more memorable than the lycan sequences of The Order.

  • ChanceChance Registered User regular
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    Chance wrote: »
    Regarding the Lycan combat...
    There are two types of lycan encounters - the boss fights (see: fighting Liquid Ocelot on top of Outer Haven in MGS4), and the lesser lycan shooting galleries. The lesser lycan combat is, 100% the "clever girl" sequence from Dead Space 2 - which was a fantastic bloody sequence. I don't feel it was introduced as effectively in The Order as it was in DS2, but I feel like it's a really nice interpretation of how a pack of giant wolves would try to fight you - hanging back, dashing in for a quick swipe and falling back again until you're weak enough to go for the neck-bite - and when they go for the neck bite, it looks amazing as Galahad struggles against them and the thing snaps its neck up, taking a bloody chunk of you with it.

    Like the clever girl sequence, it feels a bit overwhelming at first - but once you get a handle on the mechanics, you really feel like you're hunting these beasts and defeating them with your wits (and quick reflexes).

    I really enjoyed it. It's worth arguing that it doesn't live up to the (mere hint) of the game we got with that initial trailer, but I still think it was a wise appropriation of proven-effective mechanics that paid handsome dividends.

    I too was reminded of that sequence.
    But it was way scarier in Dead Space 2. A combination of slower movement mechanics, darker environments, and better enemy AI all made the Clever Girl encounters so much more memorable than the lycan sequences of The Order.

    Yeah, DS2 did a better job setting it up - where you can hear that they're out there, but you have no idea what they are - and then you see that shape peeking at you from behind a pillar before they let out that screetch and come charging. The Order had already spent a lot of time alluding to the lycans, so it could never have the same impact.

    'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
  • Dark Raven XDark Raven X Laugh hard, run fast, be kindRegistered User regular
    I'm real surprised they didn't throw a multiplayer mode in. Co op in the campaign, sure - I can see the deceptively huge amount of work involved there. But online vs? Seems like that should be a relatively straightforward thing to implement for this kind of game, and it would have alleviated a lot of complaints regarding the length.

    Oh brilliant
  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Registered User regular
    I'm real surprised they didn't throw a multiplayer mode in. Co op in the campaign, sure - I can see the deceptively huge amount of work involved there. But online vs? Seems like that should be a relatively straightforward thing to implement for this kind of game, and it would have alleviated a lot of complaints regarding the length.

    Multiplayer takes a surprising amount of work to implement -- you've got to balance, fix things that worked in single-player that don't work in multiplayer, create maps that reflect the abilities of each character, etc. It's not uncommon for the big AAA games to have an entire studio working on just multiplayer.

    Either Ready at Dawn just plain decided not to devote the resources, or it got cut whenever the powers at be decreed it was time to ship the damn thing.

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  • ShinyRedKnightShinyRedKnight Registered User regular
    edited February 2015
    Perhaps more hints at a sequel:



    I would like to see this aesthetic expanded across the world. Berlin in particular interests me in this time period.

    I'm not done with the game yet, at chapter 11. It is taking me longer than expected, I've played for about 8 hours so far.

    Some of the levels have more nooks and crannies, they should add to that in future games and add more collectibles like the recordings. Usually I'm not interested in collectibles, I avoided them in Uncharted mostly, but here they are so tightly woven into the settings and story that they really are a treat. If they continue the heavy emphasis on narrative, they should definitely add more story items to find. Given the beautiful visuals and depth of the world, it would be very fun to go back just to learn more about the universe.

    On an unrelated note, is it bad that part of me had hope that "the Americas" were still part of the British Empire in this setting? I mean, it would just be so cool to explore British States of America in a future game.

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  • ChanceChance Registered User regular
    edited February 2015
    I have two very distinct wishes for the next Order game:
    Wish #1: The Order: 1889 - Galahad wanders the dusty wastes of the American frontier in a wide-brimmed hat and a long mean duster with some major firepower beneath. Known to folks in these parts only as "The Knight," he roams the land, hunting vampires and werewolves with an unbeatable trigger finger oh fuck that sounds so cool. He is pursued by Lady Igraine, now his fearsome and brutal nemesis, who has sworn to bring the errant Knight to justice via a smoking arc cannon - if she can resist the still-burning desire for his hot, mad-tormented mustachioed lovin'.

    Wish #2 : The Order: 1941 - you play as Lafayette, huntin' half-breeds, crackin' wise and mackin' on all the ladies in Nazi-occupied Paris.

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  • ChanceChance Registered User regular
    Wait, those should've gone behind spoilers. Fixed. Or option 3,
    You play as Igraine, hunting Galahad and half-breeds on the side. I'd buy that game.

    'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
  • ShinyRedKnightShinyRedKnight Registered User regular
    edited February 2015
    Just finished the game after about 10-12 hours on hard.

    From a single player perspective, it delivered everything I expected, while showing that some areas could be expanded on. Namely, more depth in melee combat (and therefore stealth sections) and more side paths with hidden lore items. It's not revolutionary, outside of the technical presentation, but that's not what I look for in a game. I was looking for an exciting new world and a campaign that was fun, and that's what I got.

    And boy, does the story get interesting at the end. Major spoilers below:
    It is interesting that they chose to name this new franchise "The Order". It was rightly assumed that you would simply be a knight of the Order and that would define the franchise in the future. Instead, we are given a much more complex setting at the end of the game. The Order, in some sense, has served an important purpose and was (is still in some sense) on the "good" side. We still root for them, but they have seemingly been corrupted by a vast half-breed empire, and are no more than lackey's for the United India Company, which seems to be the main arm of the half-breed's might. So, instead, we root for Galahad, who represents what the Order was meant to be, and is the only hope for its rebirth.

    The ending shows the Order being fully flexed as a tool for the half-breeds and the United India Company: they've ordered martial law in London. A recording that you find towards the end, after being saved by Tesla, notes that similar actions have been taken in other parts of the world. The head of the Order knew of Lucan being a half-breed but tried to protect him as his adopted son. However, that mistake seems to have been what allowed the half-breeds to gain control of the Order. The head of the Order realizes his mistake, and lets you kill Lucan and get away, but he is not willing to uncover the conspiracy for fear of causing further destabilization and violence. More or less, he charges Galahad, no longer a knight of the Order, to take on that challenge alone.

    Many people commented about how this was a very Batman Begins/ Dark Knight set up, and it must have been intentional. Even the music at the end is the same, with Galahad standing on a London rooftop in a stormy night, watching as the Order and Royal Army begin to take the streets. Tesla's comments and Galahad's response set up a vast new franchise where Galahad is a rogue knight, and has to take apart the conspiracy of the half-breeds and to save the parts of the Order that are still good, if misdirected - namely Isabeau and Marquis.

    The big question is who is the old man in the robes that helps Tesla save you and was helping Sebastian? Tesla and Sebastian seemed to have known about this conspiracy, and it is insinuated that it was because of this man. Even Lakshmi and the rebel leadership seem to have this man to thank for the revelation, as Lakshmi indicates she received a knight's vial of blackwater. Some speculation is that this man is Arthur, still alive. His desire to stay hidden opens up a lot of questions, and may indicated that the corruption of the Order happened long ago.

    In the end, Galahad is left with a huge mission, and we know he is supported by Tesla. In terms of future games, this is a great set up for Galahad basically becoming batman. He has Tesla to supply him with gadgets, and has to save the Order from its own corruption. The concept art recently revealed on twitter shows Paris with the Eiffel Tower demolished, and major cities like Berlin and Warsaw patrolled by the Sentinel fleet. The in-game recording mentioned earlier referenced some of this, indicating that the half-breeds, via the Order and the United India Company, have begun to basically take control of much of the world. The prospect of the franchise to explore an alternate 19th century world as Galahad-batman armed with Tesla's gadgets and weapons is very exciting.

    In short, this game must have sequel. Not because the ending felt like it was missing - though it may be abrupt for some - but because the entire setting is turned on its head and opens up a whole world of possibilities. Atop this, the technical foundation and world-building laid here gives the team the ability to advance parts of the core gameplay that some may have found lacking. And they already have a great start on this, with some of the best weapons I've found in a video game.

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  • CaptainNemoCaptainNemo Registered User regular
    Also, the Final Boss isn't a reskin of an earlier fight. It uses the same mechanics, but it's not a reskin.

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  • ShinyRedKnightShinyRedKnight Registered User regular
    Also, the Final Boss isn't a reskin of an earlier fight. It uses the same mechanics, but it's not a reskin.

    Yeah, and while I can see how it may annoy people who don't like QTEs, I still liked it quite a bit.

    Two problems I had with it:
    They show off a new weapon that Tesla was using but it gets knocked out of your hands before the fight and you don't use it. They should have allowed you to use it for a bit, and then have it get knocked away for a melee encounter.

    The other issue was the setting of the fight. In a game in which I can remember every level due to the stunning environments, that last fight is blur in terms of the environment. They should have had it set in the main hall, where the round table it. That would've been epic.

    Other than that, I felt that the mechanics of the game made for a very theatrical and exciting experience. Its not for everyone, but it was very fun for me.

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  • CaptainNemoCaptainNemo Registered User regular
    I liked it too. Not enough to buy it for 60 bucks, but I definitely found it an enjoyable trip. WRT to the spoiler:
    I think that was the gun the rebels had, the shoulder cannon? The infinite ammo BFG you used on the carriage.

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  • CaptainNemoCaptainNemo Registered User regular
    Also, about the Old Man.
    The one Percival was talking too. Presumably he was the one with Telsa who rescued you. I think... I think that was Merlin.

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  • ShinyRedKnightShinyRedKnight Registered User regular
    Also, about the Old Man.
    The one Percival was talking too. Presumably he was the one with Telsa who rescued you. I think... I think that was Merlin.
    I thought that too at first. It would make sense. The only reason I am unsure about that is because they seem to have set up Tesla to be the "Merlin" for the knights, and it would be thematically conflicting to have the real Merlin take the spotlight. On the other hand, it makes even more sense that Tesla would be friends with Merlin, sort of carrying on his duties in the 19th century. Or, better yet, both Merlin and Arthur are around.

    For a future game, it would be awesome to have Merlin and Arthur prepare Galahad and Tesla to take on their roles as founders of a new Order of the Round Table.

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  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    Re: The hooded old man --
    I'm probably wrong here, but I was under the assumption that it was the Lord Chancellor. I forget his name. The guy who was Igraine and Lucan's adoptive father.

    I just assumed that he knew Galahad was in the right and was covertly working to ensure that his mission succeeded, even though he was a complete dick in the public forum. He needed Galahad to live, and he needed Galahad to defeat Lucan and Hasting, but he couldn't be directly linked to it, since Galahad was a traitorous rebel dog.

  • ShinyRedKnightShinyRedKnight Registered User regular
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    Re: The hooded old man --
    I'm probably wrong here, but I was under the assumption that it was the Lord Chancellor. I forget his name. The guy who was Igraine and Lucan's adoptive father.

    I just assumed that he knew Galahad was in the right and was covertly working to ensure that his mission succeeded, even though he was a complete dick in the public forum. He needed Galahad to live, and he needed Galahad to defeat Lucan and Hasting, but he couldn't be directly linked to it, since Galahad was a traitorous rebel dog.

    Hmm that could be, but
    I think you see the hooded guy's face for a moment when Tesla pulls you out of the water. He seemed to have less of a beard, and a slightly younger face.

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  • Skull2185Skull2185 Registered User regular
    Also, about the Old Man.
    The one Percival was talking too. Presumably he was the one with Telsa who rescued you. I think... I think that was Merlin.
    I assumed that the hooded guy is that knight Galahad and Lakshmi talk about when he asks her where she got her blackwater stuff

    Everyone has a price. Throw enough gold around and someone will risk disintegration.
  • CaptainNemoCaptainNemo Registered User regular
    Skull2185 wrote: »
    Also, about the Old Man.
    The one Percival was talking too. Presumably he was the one with Telsa who rescued you. I think... I think that was Merlin.
    I assumed that the hooded guy is that knight Galahad and Lakshmi talk about when he asks her where she got her blackwater stuff
    The way she worded it makes the Knight sound dead.

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  • Skull2185Skull2185 Registered User regular
    Yeah, but doesn't she specifically mention that she never actually said he was dead at the end of the conversation?

    Everyone has a price. Throw enough gold around and someone will risk disintegration.
  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    Skull2185 wrote: »
    Yeah, but doesn't she specifically mention that she never actually said he was dead at the end of the conversation?
    I thought she said the opposite of that? I thought she mentioned that she never said he was still alive. I think Galahad asked if he was alive, and she said that she never said that.

  • ShinyRedKnightShinyRedKnight Registered User regular
    More on the old man. Perhaps the most interesting man.
    It may have been an attempt to imply he is neither dead nor alive, as in is a vampire? Wasn't there some speculation that blackwater turns you into a vampire?


    ... wait. No freaking way. They key ingredient in blackwater is blood. How didn't I see this? Perhaps the Order is actually a bunch of halfbreeds trying to stop their more violent cousins, and therefore they only consume their own blood in the blackwater? Perhaps that helps them retain control over it, to the point where most don't realize it?

    Yeah... RAD sure has set up one crazy story here. Looking forward to seeing where it goes.
    And hoping that Galahad basically becomes Galahad Van Helsing, the Dark Knight.

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