The new forums will be named Coin Return (based on the most recent vote)! You can check on the status and timeline of the transition to the new forums here.
The Guiding Principles and New Rules document is now in effect.
Question regarding a friendship
Kyougu
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
One of my pet peeves has always been when I feel like I put more effort/stock into a friendship.
By nature I'm outgoing and caring about any relationships/friendships so I think that also makes me more sensitive when I feel that's not being returned. I run into this before as I grown older I gotten better about specifying my needs and talking things out. This case has me struggling though.
I have a particular friend where that's the case. She's really bad about initating hang outs (I'm the one that does it) and often I'm the one that initiates conversations and they tend to be geared towards her life (Her work, her new condo, her family etc). Recently when a mutual friend was asking me about how my possible career change was going she mentioned she didn't even know I was thinking of changing careers. Which is because she never bothered asking.
A few weeks ago I got fed up (the breaking point was after a really bad half marathon, I was upset and she was dismissive with a "Oh you did fine!" ) did the rational thing: Stop making the effort. I was still friendly but I wasn't initiating conversations as before, not seeking her out, etc.
Well, she caught on because I got a message saying that she had noticed I was being standoffish...and it was making her feel uncomfortable and unwelcome among our group of friends (Per later explanation it's because I'm the lynchpin of the group, which is a bit of nonsense). Basically glossing over that our friendship was impacted and concentrating on how it was affecting her.
This is where I made a mistake and instead of using it as a chance to explain how I felt I folded like Superman doing laundry and just apologized (Didn't want to cause drama in the group).
Problem is now I think I'm even more annoyed. Specially because as I feel like I definately have to go out of my way to initiate conversation less she feel uncomfortable, even though she still makes no effort to do the same. So how do I approach her about all this? or do i even?
Quick clarifications:
1)This isn't a secretely into her sort of thing. Like I mentioned, I'm admittedly extra sensisitve about this stuff, so some of it is on me.
2)I do care about the friendship because she's shown to be a good friend often. She's also a private person and has opened to me about stuff, so in a way I know she does appreciate me (though sometimes I wonder if it's because I'm someone she can talk to/complain to).
By nature I'm outgoing and caring about any relationships/friendships so I think that also makes me more sensitive when I feel that's not being returned. I run into this before as I grown older I gotten better about specifying my needs and talking things out. This case has me struggling though.
I have a particular friend where that's the case. She's really bad about initating hang outs (I'm the one that does it) and often I'm the one that initiates conversations and they tend to be geared towards her life (Her work, her new condo, her family etc). Recently when a mutual friend was asking me about how my possible career change was going she mentioned she didn't even know I was thinking of changing careers. Which is because she never bothered asking.
A few weeks ago I got fed up (the breaking point was after a really bad half marathon, I was upset and she was dismissive with a "Oh you did fine!" ) did the rational thing: Stop making the effort. I was still friendly but I wasn't initiating conversations as before, not seeking her out, etc.
Well, she caught on because I got a message saying that she had noticed I was being standoffish...and it was making her feel uncomfortable and unwelcome among our group of friends (Per later explanation it's because I'm the lynchpin of the group, which is a bit of nonsense). Basically glossing over that our friendship was impacted and concentrating on how it was affecting her.
This is where I made a mistake and instead of using it as a chance to explain how I felt I folded like Superman doing laundry and just apologized (Didn't want to cause drama in the group).
Problem is now I think I'm even more annoyed. Specially because as I feel like I definately have to go out of my way to initiate conversation less she feel uncomfortable, even though she still makes no effort to do the same. So how do I approach her about all this? or do i even?
Quick clarifications:
1)This isn't a secretely into her sort of thing. Like I mentioned, I'm admittedly extra sensisitve about this stuff, so some of it is on me.
2)I do care about the friendship because she's shown to be a good friend often. She's also a private person and has opened to me about stuff, so in a way I know she does appreciate me (though sometimes I wonder if it's because I'm someone she can talk to/complain to).
Kyougu on
0
Posts
You probably want to cut that out. I'm not going to say that no one gets annoyed when there isn't a 50/50 relationship as friends, but in my experience this not only is rarely the case, you'll be happier if you just realize that its okay to give more than you receive. Generally the universe pays you back in other ways, and its a better way to live your life not to think people owe you.
If shes not doing anything to unhealthily take advantage of you, other than being less willing to be inconvenienced, then its not that big of a deal. If you really want her to come over or something, you need to find a way to communicate that more strait up (rather than just giving her the silent treatment). If you are better about specifying your needs, then why didn't you do that here? I have a few friends that require more upkeep than others, I do that because I like them as people despite their sometimes less perceptive tendencies. They don't really owe me to improve their habits, but if I wanted them to I wouldn't hold it against them unless I told them specifically.
You had a problem with her, and you didn't say anything. She had a problem with you, and she confronted you and she talked to you about it and told you how your behavior made her feel. Just talk to her about it. You seem to value her as a friend. Shutting her out doesn't help that.
It sounds like you might be the "initiator" in this friendship, and that role is one she's comfortable allowing you to own. If you've just made the decision internally to stop initiating things, she may not know why, since you've not given her any kind of outward indicator. I've had friends who are shy or just not great at keeping up with communications or hangouts...and I put some effort into keeping the friendship alive, but I try not to push too hard, because it can be exhausting. It's also mutually understood that we're still friends even if we don't see or talk to eachother all the time, like we used to.
If she's mentioned that she's noticed you seeming stand-offish, that's not a "mutually understood" scenario...that's you have difficulties with your friendship that you're not sharing with her, however obvious they may seem to you. You could try sitting her down and talking about it, or just saying things like "I really enjoy hanging out with you, but sometimes I feel a bit overwhelmed trying to arrange hangouts all the time. Would it be cool if you let me know when you're available more often? That would help me a lot."
She could just be one of those people that isn't super talkative. If she's "very private" as you say, then it sounds likely that she might just be more of an introvert than an extrovert in how she handles relationships. She might not've asked you about your job (or changing of careers) since she's used to you completely accepting the role of "conversation initiator", and likely believed that you'd tell her if something new had happened in your life. I'd try not to hold that against her. It's most likely a completely unconscious thing that she's doing, and some people are just less outgoing or aggressive with maintaining friendships. You can talk to her about it (and I really suggest you do, without suggesting there's any "blame" to be thrown about)...but don't expect that she's suddenly going to match your level of commitment. She may really enjoy being friends with you, but being that outwardly engaging may just not be her natural inclination.
anyway, am i trying to say that your friend is like this? not really. am i saying you're obliged to be her friend? of course not. the question you should be really asking though is do i like spending time with her. you owe her nothing. but at the same time, if you expect a friend to be a mirror of yourself, you'll never hold on to one. take the relationship dynamic for what it is, and if it does nothing for you, get out of it.
That said, and having been on both sides of this, you know how she is now. You have to decide if you're comfortable putting in what you put in only to get back what she puts in. If you still want to be friends, you may need to adjust your expectations and/or contributions. If you don't.. you know, that's okay. If she feels like a drain she probably is. But you said that she has been a good friend, so maybe her idea of what that means isn't the same as what it means to you. Maybe she doesn't need to talk all the time, she's just come to expect it from you and when you stopped she thought something was wrong.
I will say this: at least she noticed. That means that for better or worse, she's paying some amount of attention. So talk to her about it. Be honest. Work something out so that you don't feel bad about things. Find a compromise and try to stick to it.
It's much worse when they don't notice, by the way.
All of this sounds like a huge headache. Unless this person offers you an experience you can't get elsewhere, why don't you just be nice to her but put all your energies elsewhere?
Once in awhile? Once a week? Several times a week?
What you deem as "appropriate amount of time" between talking to someone, and what they think is an appropriate/ideal amount of time could be wildly different.
I catch crap from my mom all the time for that. Her idea of an ideal amount of time now to keep in touch would be once a day, or more. Me? I really don't feel the need unless there's something new/interesting to talk about (lots more behind this mind you, but that's beyond the scope of this).
This friend could be similar. It's quite possible that you have just been "checking in" each time before it would ever have occurred to her to keep in touch. And now it's just the way things are. You check in every (however often it is), and that's just the way things go.
I can certainly agree with your annoyance when you're giving close to 100% of the effort... but that's only really valid if you give them the chance to put in some effort.
If you were very frequent in how often you reached out to this person (like more than once a week), I'd probably start to dial it back a bit, slowly. If you send something every other week, or once/twice a month and/or when there is something you need/want to share/talk about, that should be acceptable. And perhaps that will leave enough time for them to reach out to you when they have something to share.
Or perhaps they never will, and things will eventually just sort of trail off, but it won't be such an awkward and abrupt end.
I would suggest not assuming that because she's is "bad at initiating" in the friendship it means she isn't interested in it. I have plenty of friends who I typically rely on to to "initiate hangouts" but who I count among my best friends. I would argue that the fact that she directly asked you why your behaviour around her changed is a pretty good indication that she is invested in the friendship.
Try reading your OP and looking for the subtext. What I'm seeing is:
1) I had a friend who didn't like to initiate hangouts.
2) I decided I was uncomfortable with this so I decided not to talk to her unless she spoke first (the very definition of standoffish).
3) She asked me why I had changed my interactions with her.
4) I apologized but now I'm annoyed now.
My advice, just be honest with her. Not only does she clearly want to talk about it (otherwise why would she have asked?), if the two of you are as good friends as you say, why wouldn't you want to sort things out before they get worse?
A parting thought - not all friendships are equal nor should they be. We all have friends that we talk to every day, once a week, a month or a year - and sometimes even longer. Don't assume because one is different from another that is is less valuable.
As others have pointed out, be open with her and talk about it. I have a really good friend who is introvert and with me being an extro/introvert, it is a good match. I used to initiate most of our hangouts and she always happily agreed. But because I have my periods of extro/invertedness, I also have a need to be recharged and surprised by my friend.
So after a break (due to other stuff), I came clean and told her that I would like her to ask me out as well. So we could try stuff she wanted to do instead of doing what I wanted to do (I have a limited imagination).
It turned out pretty great. Now we have an about 50/50 split of initiating stuff with each other, be it a dinner or going to an event. Currently we're doing something I've always wanted to introduce to her: RPG/Choose your own adventure gaming.
However, as others have pointed out, if she is not willing to change and you deem it necessary, then you may have grown apart. I had a college roommate who I ping-ponged with. I labeled her a friend, but to her, I was just a guy who lived in the dormitory, and that really showed when she was out with her friends and I happened to be there. In the end I decided to stop trying to be her 'friend' since she didn't care either way and after I moved out, she and I never spoke again.