Objectively, I try incredibly hard to separate the show from the books. But I can't say I would be incredibly disappointed if they didn't try to include the Manderley plot, and the Winterfell scenes in particular.
One thing I will say is that, for all the talk about subtlety and intrigue, the show for the most part hasn't done as well at conveying the kind of small-scale dramatic tension that would be required for the Ghost in Winterfell to work. That kind of thing can quickly turn into a B-grade horror movie or, like their handling of the Purple Wedding, a low-key affair until the big hit comes out of nowhere, and is so disjointed that even a scene-by-scene examination of every moment doesn't allow you to see what actually happened. So if they can't do it well, I'd rather they not do it at all.
This is probably the biggest thing that lets me separate the show from the books. George R. R. Martin's biggest strengths are in his ability to foreshadow larger events with consistent, but small, bits of metaphor and characterization. The books are allowed to have big, epic moments because they dynamically build up to that point, much like a Beethoven symphony. The show, for the most part, seems to just revel in being always on, all the time. Even the tiny character moments turn into big, gladiatorial set pieces, such as where Cersei and Robert are duking it out. A lot of this is inherent to the medium, but some of it is just choices in direction/production. The best example I can think of, off the top of my head, is the peach scene when Renly and Stannis first meet. It's a great little moment that wouldn't have taken any extra time and really fleshed out the characterization, and yet was thrown away because of? More angry glaring from Stannis?
I really want the Ghost in Winterfell stuff to transfer over well. In the book it just had this very unsettling 'trapped in a nightmare' feeling. Theon is stuck in the ruined home of the family he betrayed during a storm that seems like it will never end, and everyone inside is turning on each other while they wait for an enemy that may never come.
...Except you've somehow ended up rooting for the creepy hill people that want to kill and eat the outsiders.
A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
Maybe I'm crazy but I always assumed the Ghost in Winterfell was
Theon and he forgets because his mind is broken from all the abuse
You're kinda right. He doesn't actually forget, it's just that he's so broken that he doesn't think of himself as Theon. It's why the only chapter of his that's actually "Theon" is when he starts showing some agency again.
Mance's wives were the ghost? I assumed Theon figured it out, but was just as afraid of them helping him become Theon again as he was of pissing off Ramsay.
Lou29 on
+9
BroloBroseidonLord of the BroceanRegistered Userregular
Mance's wives were the ghost? I assumed Theon figured it out, but was just as afraid of them helping him become Theon again as he was of pissing off Ramsay.
Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
There is no definitive answer to who the Ghost is, and whether it's just one person, several people, or even completely different factions working independently. I doubt we will ever get a full answer, either.
It's a pretty common thread that GRRM has weaved throughout the story, from the various prophecies to the confusion surrounding Jon Snow's mother to the twice-removed hearsay of what the hell happened to Ashara Dayne.
There is no definitive answer to who the Ghost is, and whether it's just one person, several people, or even completely different factions working independently. I doubt we will ever get a full answer, either.
It's a pretty common thread that GRRM has weaved throughout the story, from the various prophecies to the confusion surrounding Jon Snow's mother to the twice-removed hearsay of what the hell happened to Ashara Dayne.
Which is honestly one of my favorite things about the books, and a thing that can't really work on television (at least, not on a show as massive in popularity as GoT)
I love that verisimillitude in people not really knowing what's going on a lot of the time. Historically, communication was hard as fuck, and a lot of shit wasn't written down, and it was just painfully easy for mysteries to go unsolved and truths to never come out and rumor to run rampant. It's really cool to see that explored in a fantasy story.
But good luck convincing a television CEO, "So, there are some questions we're just never gonna answer, and key plot details that we'll never show."
I think at least a few of the killings might have been from different people (specifically Big Walder taking advantage of random people being murdered to off Little Walder).
0
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
It is heavily implied that
Walder killed the other Walder and used the excuse of the "ghost" to hide his intentions
One of the little touches I love about that scene.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
oh man you book guys are going to love the indigo wedding
let's just say it's going to make you lose your head
:cool:
I mean
considering my years of smugness towards upcoming events
it seems only fair
A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
He's probably never finishing the books though, so I doubt it's worth waiting
Yeah, I'm absolutely not holding my breath anymore. I'll watch the show, and when (if?) the books come out I'll read them, because there will probably be more world building and I love that shit.
I wonder how Martin feels about that. Like it pretty much means hes going to have to change plot twists if theyre going to be a feature of future books. Because while I personally enjoy the books just for details and the atmosphere of the world, the hook of their twists was pretty crucial to why I bothered. Im guessing the show will spoil his old outline for the books, but that outline will be a bit different now when the books finally do come out
Its kind of unprecedented, I cant really think of another scenario where this has happened
Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
The show has deviated enough from the book that they can be treated as separate entities. Martin has long said that he doesn't let the show influence the book.
This really is an unprecedented situation, though. Like, has there ever been a parallel medium which outpaced the original source material to its intended conclusion?
I'm pretty sure there's plenty of films and tv series based on books that had sequels before the books. The sequel books then turned into adaptions of the movies. Like Jurassic Park? 2001: Space Odesessy was done together, so it's not really an example.
I think there must be a detective series or some kind of serialised fiction that was adapted to movies and was outpaced by the movies. But I can't think of actual examples and I'm pretty sure serial fiction doesn't really care much, it's generally just stuff putout for the sake of stuff being put out.
Gvzbgul on
0
BroloBroseidonLord of the BroceanRegistered Userregular
The show has deviated enough from the book that they can be treated as separate entities. Martin has long said that he doesn't let the show influence the book.
This really is an unprecedented situation, though. Like, has there ever been a parallel medium which outpaced the original source material to its intended conclusion?
In fact there was a thing where someone was speculating when GoT was going to do it's beach episode or whatever fillers anime generally uses. Oh, yeah, The Escapist.
Gvzbgul on
+1
BroloBroseidonLord of the BroceanRegistered Userregular
Bronn and Pod have to get their driver's licenses.
show/book split is probably going to end up like the fma anime, where the show will do it's own thing and while the book might end the same it's probably going to be way better about how it gets there
but yeah it's going to be kinda shitty reading the last books and sort of already knowing which characters just aren't really relevant to the climax
+4
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
You will get a pretty good idea who is "relevant" at the core base one how/where certain characters are the story.
Like, I thought Drogo had killed a nameless Dothraki warrior in season one. But he had a name, and is getting perspective chapters in the later books.
Also, the shows have veered off the beaten path of the books for quite some time. Touching things in a purely chronological system and not disjointed in the books. I mean,
The Hound looks dead in the show.
In the book he looks alive and working at a monastery
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
The show has deviated enough from the book that they can be treated as separate entities. Martin has long said that he doesn't let the show influence the book.
This really is an unprecedented situation, though. Like, has there ever been a parallel medium which outpaced the original source material to its intended conclusion?
ANIME
IT HAPPENS IN ANIME
LET ME TALK TO YOU
ABOUT ANIME
What happens is they invent ridiculous filler episodes where everyone goes to a hot spring and spends a lot of the time mostly naked.
I think I might stop keeping up with the show? I mean, depending on how good my willpower is. I kind of want to experience it through gurm's writing first, given how irritated I've been with some of the depictions over the last two seasons. My only concern is that avoiding spoilers would probably suck...
Posts
I really want the Ghost in Winterfell stuff to transfer over well. In the book it just had this very unsettling 'trapped in a nightmare' feeling. Theon is stuck in the ruined home of the family he betrayed during a storm that seems like it will never end, and everyone inside is turning on each other while they wait for an enemy that may never come.
Do I need to dig out the house shot recipes I helped formulate last year for the Season 4 finale? (Just might do that anyway, they were p. great)
I like ambiguity more than most people.
Woah woah...is that the title of the book or a bad(or AWESOME) metalcore band name?
@Matev, sure????
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
PSN: jrrl_absent
yeah
It's a pretty common thread that GRRM has weaved throughout the story, from the various prophecies to the confusion surrounding Jon Snow's mother to the twice-removed hearsay of what the hell happened to Ashara Dayne.
Which is honestly one of my favorite things about the books, and a thing that can't really work on television (at least, not on a show as massive in popularity as GoT)
I love that verisimillitude in people not really knowing what's going on a lot of the time. Historically, communication was hard as fuck, and a lot of shit wasn't written down, and it was just painfully easy for mysteries to go unsolved and truths to never come out and rumor to run rampant. It's really cool to see that explored in a fantasy story.
But good luck convincing a television CEO, "So, there are some questions we're just never gonna answer, and key plot details that we'll never show."
One of the little touches I love about that scene.
They also mentioned that they aren't looking to stretch the show to wait for ol' Railroad Martin to finish
They're looking to end the show after 7 or 8 seasons
I'm not sure I really want to watch this now
man
so smug
oh man you book guys are going to love the indigo wedding
let's just say it's going to make you lose your head
:cool:
https://medium.com/@alascii
PSN- AHermano
curse my hubris
cause hell, I started reading in 2011 and adwd was just released. Its been 4 years and no release date for the next one in sight.
I can understand people who have been with the books much longer would wanna wait
but man i am hella hype for season 5
I mean
considering my years of smugness towards upcoming events
it seems only fair
Yeah, I'm absolutely not holding my breath anymore. I'll watch the show, and when (if?) the books come out I'll read them, because there will probably be more world building and I love that shit.
Its kind of unprecedented, I cant really think of another scenario where this has happened
This really is an unprecedented situation, though. Like, has there ever been a parallel medium which outpaced the original source material to its intended conclusion?
I think there must be a detective series or some kind of serialised fiction that was adapted to movies and was outpaced by the movies. But I can't think of actual examples and I'm pretty sure serial fiction doesn't really care much, it's generally just stuff putout for the sake of stuff being put out.
ANIME
IT HAPPENS IN ANIME
LET ME TALK TO YOU
ABOUT ANIME
In fact there was a thing where someone was speculating when GoT was going to do it's beach episode or whatever fillers anime generally uses. Oh, yeah, The Escapist.
Although we sorta had that with Jon and Ygrid.
but yeah it's going to be kinda shitty reading the last books and sort of already knowing which characters just aren't really relevant to the climax
Like, I thought Drogo had killed a nameless Dothraki warrior in season one. But he had a name, and is getting perspective chapters in the later books.
Also, the shows have veered off the beaten path of the books for quite some time. Touching things in a purely chronological system and not disjointed in the books. I mean,
In the book he looks alive and working at a monastery
Flimsy excuse to re-post Arrested Westeros go!
That snuck up on me
What happens is they invent ridiculous filler episodes where everyone goes to a hot spring and spends a lot of the time mostly naked.
See, look at this shit.
Need to buy this still.
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