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King Joffy's all-new Game of Thrones thread.

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    AnzekayAnzekay Registered User regular
    The only characters from the Dorne stuff I care about at all are dead.

    So no more Dorne k thx

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    Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    To be fair, AFFC was pretty...bad compared to the rest of the series.

    But even by AFFC standards, Dorne on the show is just...the worst.

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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    akajaybayakajaybay Registered User regular
    darleysam wrote: »
    SimBen wrote: »
    SimBen wrote: »
    Oh shit. With the darkness and chaos of the scene and fact that I had to pause it to take care of a tiny crying baby I totally missed the fact that Hodor died. :(

    Did we actually see that though?

    I just read a review that definitely read it that way and assumed I'd missed something?

    I guess we'll know for sure next week.

    Yeah, i don't they actually showed it.
    I don't recall seeing a mangled corpse of Hodor, but I think that, like with Stannis, they really did show enough to give you the point. It would be rather silly if, after that, a discussion ensued about how he must be alive.
    I have to assume
    there will be a zombie Hodor at some point, to menace Bran and Meera.

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    Houk the NamebringerHouk the Namebringer Nipples The EchidnaRegistered User regular
    Non-book reader thoughts on episode 5...
    To be honest, this episode was unbelievably satisfying from a character development perspective. Like yeah, there were a lot of 'oh my god why are you so stupid' moments, but every one of them felt appropriate to the character (yes, even Bran) and every one of them advanced both the story and the characters. For one example, I totally agree that the Arya plotline has been going on too long, but in this episode she's most definitely come to her crisis moment (I think she super enjoys killing people, or at least doesn't have a problem with it, but she needs a good reason to do it) and will have to pick a direction soon enough. Hell, even Edd has been put in a dramatically interesting position.

    This whole season so far has been leaps and bounds above the last one when it comes to character development and expression. And since I've lost most of the characters I personally liked watching, I'm very glad for that. And I'm also very excited about the Tormund/Brienne potential...

    Also as a show watcher, I don't know anything about the Tower of Joy beyond basic spoiler stuff, so I don't have any baggage about what they should address there or when, and I'm totally fine with them coming back to it whenever it makes sense.

    That being said, the one question I do have is this - once tree guy knew the wight walker king dude was on his way, and he had to prepare Bran to become...something, why did he take him to that particular memory of his dad getting ready to leave? Was it just because tree guy knew that he needed Hodor to get warg'ed in order to save Bran?

    Anyway, overall I'm super into what's happening so far.

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    Mr. GMr. G Registered User regular
    What exactly did Bran fuck up so bad

    Max Von Sydow told him to do it!

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    HobnailHobnail Registered User regular
    Mr. G wrote: »
    What exactly did Bran fuck up so bad

    Max Von Sydow told him to do it!
    Max Von Sydow definitely didn't tell him to get bored and go on an unsupervised vision quest and get groped by the King of the Zombies

    Broke as fuck and the bills past due, all amounts assist and are kindly received.

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    Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    I think what was happening was
    The three eyed raven aka Bloodraven aka 'that guy in the tree' was trying to "upload" a bunch of information into Bran via that vision, and that's why Bran couldn't leave it. This is at least stated in the 'Inside the Episode' thing featuring the two show creators.

    I also am guessing that Hodor warged out from his past self into his future self via Bran. Either that or Bran trying to warg into Hodor caused that shit to go down. Though I vastly prefer it if Hodor is the one choosing to put his life on the line somehow, as opposed to Bran forcing him to hold the door like he was sacrificing a pawn to move his Queen.

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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    Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    Hobnail wrote: »
    Mr. G wrote: »
    What exactly did Bran fuck up so bad

    Max Von Sydow told him to do it!
    Max Von Sydow definitely didn't tell him to get bored and go on an unsupervised vision quest and get groped by the King of the Zombies
    Except nowhere was that even suggested that that could happen!

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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    SmurphSmurph Registered User regular
    On Arya
    I think the fact that she is Arya Stark is the whole reason they want her and keep giving her second chances. Not because she's some super promising killer, they can probably find better fighters than her on the street. They want her to become a tool for them. I feel like the plan is to totally obliterate her identity and then tell her to go play the role of Arya Stark in Westeros, where she will be able to easily get close to all kinds of people they may want dead. And she'll never be discovered, unlike a regular FM wearing her face.

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    SimBenSimBen Hodor? Hodor Hodor.Registered User regular
    Yeah now that the season's halfway over I think it's fair to say overall they've pulled the quality back up from last year tremendously.

    I didn't think the show was gonna go back to being my favorite appointment of the week but here we are.

    sig.gif
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    Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    Smurph wrote: »
    On Arya
    I think the fact that she is Arya Stark is the whole reason they want her and keep giving her second chances. Not because she's some super promising killer, they can probably find better fighters than her on the street. They want her to become a tool for them. I feel like the plan is to totally obliterate her identity and then tell her to go play the role of Arya Stark in Westeros, where she will be able to easily get close to all kinds of people they may want dead. And she'll never be discovered, unlike a regular FM wearing her face.

    Nah.
    As long as Arya follows the rules and faith of the faceless men and the manyfaced god, they will train her.

    They don't give a shit about who she was at all.

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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    SimBenSimBen Hodor? Hodor Hodor.Registered User regular
    Smurph wrote: »
    On Arya
    I think the fact that she is Arya Stark is the whole reason they want her and keep giving her second chances. Not because she's some super promising killer, they can probably find better fighters than her on the street. They want her to become a tool for them. I feel like the plan is to totally obliterate her identity and then tell her to go play the role of Arya Stark in Westeros, where she will be able to easily get close to all kinds of people they may want dead. And she'll never be discovered, unlike a regular FM wearing her face.

    Nah.
    As long as Arya follows the rules and faith of the faceless men and the manyfaced god, they will train her.

    They don't give a shit about who she was at all.
    Besides, the only Westeros people she can possibly get close to without raising suspicion is Jon and Sansa. Unless they want to send her to Meereen to kill Dany and/or Tyrion I guess.

    sig.gif
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    Mr. GMr. G Registered User regular
    It's kinda crazy just how much the sheer fact of the Night's King being a thing makes the White Walkers a thousand times more interesting

    Just some zombies? Snore

    Zombies with an actual hierarchy, intelligence, and ruling class? That's cool

    I'm just waiting for that dude to talk

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    Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    SimBen wrote: »
    Smurph wrote: »
    On Arya
    I think the fact that she is Arya Stark is the whole reason they want her and keep giving her second chances. Not because she's some super promising killer, they can probably find better fighters than her on the street. They want her to become a tool for them. I feel like the plan is to totally obliterate her identity and then tell her to go play the role of Arya Stark in Westeros, where she will be able to easily get close to all kinds of people they may want dead. And she'll never be discovered, unlike a regular FM wearing her face.

    Nah.
    As long as Arya follows the rules and faith of the faceless men and the manyfaced god, they will train her.

    They don't give a shit about who she was at all.
    Besides, the only Westeros people she can possibly get close to without raising suspicion is Jon and Sansa. Unless they want to send her to Meereen to kill Dany and/or Tyrion I guess.

    Wait, what?
    For a mission, she can 'put on' a face like the monks at the temple, or possibly change it with a wave like Jaqan Hagar.

    This is also Arya: the highborn girl that practically nobody notices.

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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    Houk the NamebringerHouk the Namebringer Nipples The EchidnaRegistered User regular
    edited May 2016
    Hobnail wrote: »
    Mr. G wrote: »
    What exactly did Bran fuck up so bad

    Max Von Sydow told him to do it!
    Max Von Sydow definitely didn't tell him to get bored and go on an unsupervised vision quest and get groped by the King of the Zombies
    Except nowhere was that even suggested that that could happen!
    His trips were guided but not controlled by tree dude, and he could go anywhere and anytime. It was made clear with Ned that others in the vision could sense his presence. I can't say I understand the mechanics of the system, but as a non-book reader there wasn't anything that made me think that situation with the wight walkers couldn't have come up. My interpretation was that the wight walkers knew what he was capable of, knew basically where he was, and were waiting for him to make a trip without the protection of his guide.

    Also, he's a teenager who's already impatient with his lack of progress, doesn't understand why things are taking so long, and has no context for just how bad a misstep can make things (and due to his disability, wants to prove he has value). His actions line up 100% with his character and motivation.

    Houk the Namebringer on
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    belligerentbelligerent Registered User regular
    So couple thoughts from this week.
    Sansa: pregnant? Arya: gonna be sent to assassinate someone we love? Is Tyrion falling into the same trap as sansa was re: a person of the faith?

    Also, As soon as Meera repeated hold the door, I immediately understood what was happening. I looked to my wife who nodded at me. When the kid starts saying Hodor, she starts crying even harder. Turns out, she could guess that he was going to die alright, but didn't put together the Hodor thing until the very end.

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    scherbchenscherbchen Asgard (it is dead)Registered User regular
    as soon as
    they started to talk whistfully about home and awesome food and hodor started being happy I blurted out "oh no, he is going to die".

    but when "hold the door" came I just went "what? oh no. oh no......"

    did not see that bit coming.

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    maritzacmaritzac Registered User regular
    Yes it's a bit repetitive, but to me it has never been boring. If anything, when all she did was wash corpses. Yeah ok that's a bit boring.

    Arya simply joined the assassin's guild. And they have been training her with more than a montage. First the sticks, now they will teach her unarmed. She's leveling up!

    The problem with Arya is that she will never really stop being Arya Stark. Those temple dorks say it's because she's nobility, but that's not true. The girl simply has an almost irreductible will. I'm not sure that's going to sit well with the God of Many Mugs, even more so when the rules are so... cut and dry. There's no wiggle room. You get a contract, you kill that person, no matter who that person is. Even if that person is yourself (or someone in your family, which would be totally up GRRM's alley). You are not the judge of who deserves to live or die. Arya is so set up with learning how to fight and kill -learning to never be defenseless again, avenging her family- that she does not realize she might never be allowed to kill for her own reasons.

    Moreso, even before joining the temple she learned it was not as simple as just killing. She DID change her mind about the Hound. Now the play reminded her her sister is still out there.

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    maritzacmaritzac Registered User regular
    "Also, he's a teenager who's already impatient with his lack of progress, doesn't understand why things are taking so long, and has no context for just how bad a misstep can make things (and due to his disability, wants to prove he has value). His actions line up 100% with his character and motivation."

    Yeah, not to mention the girl he's with wants to leave badly and cares very little for whatever he's doing.

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    SnicketysnickSnicketysnick The Greatest Hype Man in WesterosRegistered User regular
    Mr. G wrote: »
    It's kinda crazy just how much the sheer fact of the Night's King being a thing makes the White Walkers a thousand times more interesting

    Just some zombies? Snore

    Zombies with an actual hierarchy, intelligence, and ruling class? That's cool

    I'm just waiting for that dude to talk

    I fear that when/if he does he's going to sound like Joe Pasquale or something worse.

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    SmurphSmurph Registered User regular
    You guys think that Arya
    Will get a contract to kill Jon? I wouldn't put it past Littlefinger to try and eliminate him at some point for some reason. And GRRM set up Arya and Jon as having this special relationship in the first book.

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    TubeTube Registered User admin
    I feel like that ends so clearly with her not doing it that there's no real dramatic tension

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    PoorochondriacPoorochondriac Ah, man Ah, jeezRegistered User regular
    edited May 2016
    Gilbert Gottfried as Night King and GoT will officially be show of the century

    Edit: Wait, no, Jack Mcbrayer

    Poorochondriac on
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    SnicketysnickSnicketysnick The Greatest Hype Man in WesterosRegistered User regular
    Smurph wrote: »
    You guys think that Arya
    Will get a contract to kill Jon? I wouldn't put it past Littlefinger to try and eliminate him at some point for some reason. And GRRM set up Arya and Jon as having this special relationship in the first book.

    Don't forget that (books)
    this is partly to lay the seeds for Jon's parentage
    in that they are both said to look more like each other than the other Stark children and specifically (speculation/rumours)
    that she resembles a young Lyanna

    Sorry for the nesting, but there's layers!

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    AbdhyiusAbdhyius Registered User regular
    edited May 2016
    Watching this episode, and recalling this from the previous episode
    Abdhyius wrote:
    watching the latest GoT [ep 4]
    don't correct me if I'm wrong because I just started

    but was tormund's reaction to seeing brienne a stunned "<3" ? I say, yes. Those two are going to fuck like goddamn steam turbines.

    hahahaha tormund has the wildest wildling boner there ever was for brienne

    Abdhyius on
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    HawkstoneHawkstone Don't sweat the petty things, and don't pet the sweaty things. Somewhere outside of BarstowRegistered User regular
    Tube wrote: »
    I feel like that ends so clearly with her not doing it that there's no real dramatic tension
    I don't think they have sold the brainwashing nearly enough for any plot involving her killing a family member really being credible either. The facial expressions during the play betrayed that to some extent she is still putting on an act, and I question if she will really even be able to go through with killing an innocent, much less a family member. She signed on for killing the infirmed who needed mercy and the evil folks of the world, she wasn't aware until now that they are just assassins for hire and there is no deeper morality within the sect.

    Inside of a dog...it's too dark to read.
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    AbdhyiusAbdhyius Registered User regular
    I knew Hodor was going to die the moment he pushed the door shut

    and then in the greendream when Bran looks at him it momentarily distracted me from that because I thought "Oh we'll get to see what happened to hodor in a flashback during his last moments, neat, I was really curious about... what... happened... oh, no, it's gonna be... oh no"

    Real progression of heroic sacrifices in that tunnel. First Summer is the loyalest dog. Then Leaf gets her moment, and it's lingered on more.

    But then, you two merely gave your life so bran could get away, Hodor gave his entire life. That was a sad godamn scene.

    Also unlike Inquisitor I like that kind of time travel shenanigans. The stuff that I find infuriatingly stupid is "changing the past" type plots - where a change to the past doesn't happen until they travel from the future, which ignores what "time travel" bloody means, you arrive before you leave, arriving after makes it just travel - but I'm all on board with this kind of "events causing themselves" kind of time travel. I like it.

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    SmurphSmurph Registered User regular
    Hawkstone wrote: »
    Tube wrote: »
    I feel like that ends so clearly with her not doing it that there's no real dramatic tension
    I don't think they have sold the brainwashing nearly enough for any plot involving her killing a family member really being credible either. The facial expressions during the play betrayed that to some extent she is still putting on an act, and I question if she will really even be able to go through with killing an innocent, much less a family member. She signed on for killing the infirmed who needed mercy and the evil folks of the world, she wasn't aware until now that they are just assassins for hire and there is no deeper morality within the sect.
    I feel like there are only two things they can do with her story at this point:

    A) Grab Needle and run, and have the Faceless Men become a threat to her for the rest of the series
    B) Have her finish the training and go be an assassin. This would include killing innocent people like the actress woman. Obliviously she won't kill her own family, but I could see them having her kill a sympathetic character or two in order to make the audience conflicted about her.

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    darleysamdarleysam On my way to UKRegistered User regular
    edited May 2016
    Hawkstone wrote: »
    Tube wrote: »
    I feel like that ends so clearly with her not doing it that there's no real dramatic tension
    I don't think they have sold the brainwashing nearly enough for any plot involving her killing a family member really being credible either. The facial expressions during the play betrayed that to some extent she is still putting on an act, and I question if she will really even be able to go through with killing an innocent, much less a family member. She signed on for killing the infirmed who needed mercy and the evil folks of the world, she wasn't aware until now that they are just assassins for hire and there is no deeper morality within the sect.
    Thing is, brainwashing like this isn't a switch, it's an erosion over time. So they keep testing her, keep offering her ways out, keep pushing her every time she questions it, and is slowly whittling away at herself every time she submits and comes back.

    edit: completely forgot to give a shoutout to Richard E. Grant and The Actor Kevin Eldon. Brilliant to see them both pop up.

    darleysam on
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    Muddy WaterMuddy Water Quiet Batperson Registered User regular
    This was posted in 2014

    (Spoilers for this episode)

    https://ventrellaquest.com/2014/04/20/got-got/
    Around the third time we were on the elevator together, he pushed he button for our floor and then asked the others what floors they needed, and then after everyone left, he turned to me.

    Martin: I always wanted to be an elevator operator. If the writing thing hadn’t worked out…

    We both laughed and went on to our rooms.

    The final time we ended up together, the conversation went like this:

    Me: I finally figured out why you have a character named “Hodor.”

    Martin: Oh?

    Me: I was thinking about your comment about wanting to be an elevator operator. It’s clear to me now that “Hodor” is short for “Hold the door.”

    Martin: (laughing) You don’t know how close to the truth you are!

    So there you have it. If we ever learn why Hodor says “Hodor” (which, as readers know, is not his given name) and it has something to do with elevators, remember: You read it here first.

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    LiiyaLiiya Registered User regular
    MY

    HEART.

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    Desktop HippieDesktop Hippie Registered User regular
    Tube wrote: »
    I feel like that ends so clearly with her not doing it that there's no real dramatic tension

    I doubt that's how it would go down.
    They'd set it up so it looks like she won't do it, only for her to do it. Jon dies a second time. Jon is brought back a second time. They might even want to end Arya's story with her being sacrificed to resurrect someone, instead of her ending on the path she chose for herself - being used to kill people.

    However it's more likely that
    Arya gets sent to kill Tyrion, and he talks her out of it and into fleeing the faceless men because that's what Tryion does. He drinks, and he talks his way out of certain death.

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    LiiyaLiiya Registered User regular
    SimBen wrote: »
    This continues to be my everything:

    oh my god

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    SolarSolar Registered User regular
    I think the reason I like the plots in the north so much right now us that they are rattling on at a good fast pace, whereas all the other stuff is sloooooow.

    I'd happily never see Dany again, but I wouldn't mind her nearly so much if it wasn't for her character arc sort of just circling and covering past ground. Similarly, Arya is really cool but the pace is dragging! Kick things up a notch!

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    Goose!Goose! That's me, honey Show me the way home, honeyRegistered User regular
    Torienne's baby comes out already as big as the Mountain

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    KingofMadCowsKingofMadCows Registered User regular
    Anzekay wrote: »
    The only characters from the Dorne stuff I care about at all are dead.

    So no more Dorne k thx

    They can still salvage it by casting Colm Meaney as a character who spends the next season getting revenge for Doran's death.

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    rhylithrhylith Death Rabbits HoustonRegistered User regular
    I am so glad this season is actually good you guys.

    I was worried last season that it would fall apart completely.

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    SnicketysnickSnicketysnick The Greatest Hype Man in WesterosRegistered User regular
    Anzekay wrote: »
    The only characters from the Dorne stuff I care about at all are dead.

    So no more Dorne k thx

    They can still salvage it by casting Colm Meaney as a character who spends the next season getting revenge for Doran's death.

    Oh man..I just had a terrible thought from an alt-universe version of the show: we are living in the timeline where Colm Meaney isn't playing Dolorous Edd.

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    darleysamdarleysam On my way to UKRegistered User regular
    There was some quote I read earlier which, as someone who's not read the books, seemed to stand out in a pretty significant way (has a thing that I think is from the first book but, hey, you decide if you want to read it or not I'm not the boss of you)
    It was from probably the first book, with Old Nan telling Bran his 'favourite' story about Bran the Builder, and went off into how there seem to be so many different Brans that she merges them all into one in her head.
    I wish I could find it because the actual quote, in the context of his newly-discovered ability to... not shape the past, but be the influence that causes them to take place, it seems like a pretty significant thing.

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    SnicketysnickSnicketysnick The Greatest Hype Man in WesterosRegistered User regular
    darleysam wrote: »
    There was some quote I read earlier which, as someone who's not read the books, seemed to stand out in a pretty significant way (has a thing that I think is from the first book but, hey, you decide if you want to read it or not I'm not the boss of you)
    It was from probably the first book, with Old Nan telling Bran his 'favourite' story about Bran the Builder, and went off into how there seem to be so many different Brans that she merges them all into one in her head.
    I wish I could find it because the actual quote, in the context of his newly-discovered ability to... not shape the past, but be the influence that causes them to take place, it seems like a pretty significant thing.

    so what you're suggesting is that
    Bran is now going to leap from body to body within his own Bloodline, righting wrongs and hoping to one day leap home?

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