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King Joffy's all-new Game of Thrones thread.

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    CampyCampy Registered User regular
    rhylith wrote: »
    @darleysam you messed up your spoiler

    Also
    Even if Bran goes back and changes things we'd already see the impact of those changes on the world based on the time travel rules put in place. I don't think we're at risk of any major story changing events, only MAYBE Bran Stark making Bran the Builder build the wall, which honestly isn't that egregious.

    Agreed...
    GoT time travel appears to be the closed loop kind. Where all the time travel antics have already happened in order to setup the "present" that we're seeing in the story. So any shenanigans that Bran treewargs back to do are in fact required to set up Westeros as we know it.

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    InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    edited May 2016
    Campy wrote: »
    rhylith wrote: »
    @darleysam you messed up your spoiler

    Also
    Even if Bran goes back and changes things we'd already see the impact of those changes on the world based on the time travel rules put in place. I don't think we're at risk of any major story changing events, only MAYBE Bran Stark making Bran the Builder build the wall, which honestly isn't that egregious.

    Agreed...
    GoT time travel appears to be the closed loop kind. Where all the time travel antics have already happened in order to setup the "present" that we're seeing in the story. So any shenanigans that Bran treewargs back to do are in fact required to set up Westeros as we know it.

    Obviously this is just a personal taste thing but:
    If that's the case I feel like it cheapens the whole story and how everything got to the way it as. Of course, magic is my least favorite thing about Game of Thrones, and it's just been ramping up every book/season. So I probably will just have to be a grumpy old man and accept that stuff like this is the way the winds are blowing in the show now.

    Inquisitor on
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    Desktop HippieDesktop Hippie Registered User regular
    Asthariel wrote: »
    darleysam wrote: »
    Campy wrote: »
    darleysam wrote: »
    There was some quote I read earlier which, as someone who's not read the books, seemed to stand out in a pretty significant way (has a thing that I think is from the first book but, hey, you decide if you want to read it or not I'm not the boss of you)
    It was from probably the first book, with Old Nan telling Bran his 'favourite' story about Bran the Builder, and went off into how there seem to be so many different Brans that she merges them all into one in her head.
    I wish I could find it because the actual quote, in the context of his newly-discovered ability to... not shape the past, but be the influence that causes them to take place, it seems like a pretty significant thing.

    so what you're suggesting is that
    Bran is now going to leap from body to body within his own Bloodline, righting wrongs and hoping to one day leap home?

    Holy fuck snots.

    Wasn't...
    The original Bran the Builder the one that built the godamn wall?!

    Ah, I managed to find the quote:
    Thousands and thousands of years ago, Brandon the Builder had raised Winterfell, and some said the Wall. Bran knew the story, but it had never been his favorite. Maybe one of the other Brandons had liked that story. Sometimes Nan would talk to him as if he were her Brandon, the baby she had nursed all those years ago, and sometimes she confused him with his uncle Brandon, who was killed by the Mad King before Bran was even born. She had lived so long, Mother had told him once, that all the Brandon Starks had become one person in her head.

    Jesus fuck, no, please, no.
    I hate when time travel is added to fantasy / SF story. I like it when the story is from beginning ABOUT time travel, but i cannot think about even one series / book / movie / game, where plot was improved thanks to adding time travel. In most cases, it's the sign that author have no idea what to do next, at least in my opinion.

    Spoilers for all the books and the most recent ep.
    First, As has been pointed out, Hodor was Hodor from book one, which came out - what? 14 years ago? If a time travel element was planned for more than a decade I think it's safe to assume it's not a last desperate gasp by an author smashing against writer's block.

    Second, any story that features prophecies has an element of time travel. Prophecies are glimpses into the future. And ASoIaF is full of prophecies. Absolutely stuffed with them. The Targaryens came to Westeros because of a prophecy that Valeria would fall. The Ghost of High Heart, Maggy the Frog, Quaithe, Jojen Reed, even Dany has had the occasional prophetic dream in the books.

    Not only that, we know that Martin himself loves prophecies, and particularly loves when someone trying to prevent a prophecy coming true winds up bringing it about. He's been quoted telling the story of a Duke in the English civil war who was told he would die at a certain castle. He spent the rest of his life avoiding that castle. He died at the first battle of St. Albans, outside a tavern - named after the castle, under their painted sign, which was an image of the castle.

    Now add those two elements together. You have an author who loves fixed destinies that people can't escape, and who especially loves it when they happen in unexpected ways during efforts to prevent them. You have characters that can see into the future. You have a character who can see into - and apparently manipulate - the past. You have an incredibly rich and detailed past seeded with dozens of weird, mysterious events, from massive events like the doom of Valeria, to big events like the tragedy at Summerhall, to little mysteries like what the heck happened to Ashara Dayne and her baby exactly?

    You shouldn't be gnashing your teeth and worrying that Martin has jumped the kraken.

    You should be very, very excited.

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    HobnailHobnail Registered User regular
    Due to time travel shenanigans the 7th Royal Tank Regiment is transported from 1940 Egypt to Southern Dorne, numerous occurrences ensue

    Broke as fuck and the bills past due, all amounts assist and are kindly received.

    https://www.paypal.me/hobnailtaylor
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    SolarSolar Registered User regular
    Hobnail wrote: »
    Due to time travel shenanigans the 7th Royal Tank Regiment is transported from 1940 Egypt to Southern Dorne, numerous occurrences ensue

    Somehow none of them are very interesting though because Dorne

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    AstharielAsthariel The Book Eater Registered User regular
    Asthariel wrote: »
    darleysam wrote: »
    Campy wrote: »
    darleysam wrote: »
    There was some quote I read earlier which, as someone who's not read the books, seemed to stand out in a pretty significant way (has a thing that I think is from the first book but, hey, you decide if you want to read it or not I'm not the boss of you)
    It was from probably the first book, with Old Nan telling Bran his 'favourite' story about Bran the Builder, and went off into how there seem to be so many different Brans that she merges them all into one in her head.
    I wish I could find it because the actual quote, in the context of his newly-discovered ability to... not shape the past, but be the influence that causes them to take place, it seems like a pretty significant thing.

    so what you're suggesting is that
    Bran is now going to leap from body to body within his own Bloodline, righting wrongs and hoping to one day leap home?

    Holy fuck snots.

    Wasn't...
    The original Bran the Builder the one that built the godamn wall?!

    Ah, I managed to find the quote:
    Thousands and thousands of years ago, Brandon the Builder had raised Winterfell, and some said the Wall. Bran knew the story, but it had never been his favorite. Maybe one of the other Brandons had liked that story. Sometimes Nan would talk to him as if he were her Brandon, the baby she had nursed all those years ago, and sometimes she confused him with his uncle Brandon, who was killed by the Mad King before Bran was even born. She had lived so long, Mother had told him once, that all the Brandon Starks had become one person in her head.

    Jesus fuck, no, please, no.
    I hate when time travel is added to fantasy / SF story. I like it when the story is from beginning ABOUT time travel, but i cannot think about even one series / book / movie / game, where plot was improved thanks to adding time travel. In most cases, it's the sign that author have no idea what to do next, at least in my opinion.

    Spoilers for all the books and the most recent ep.
    First, As has been pointed out, Hodor was Hodor from book one, which came out - what? 14 years ago? If a time travel element was planned for more than a decade I think it's safe to assume it's not a last desperate gasp by an author smashing against writer's block.

    Second, any story that features prophecies has an element of time travel. Prophecies are glimpses into the future. And ASoIaF is full of prophecies. Absolutely stuffed with them. The Targaryens came to Westeros because of a prophecy that Valeria would fall. The Ghost of High Heart, Maggy the Frog, Quaithe, Jojen Reed, even Dany has had the occasional prophetic dream in the books.

    Not only that, we know that Martin himself loves prophecies, and particularly loves when someone trying to prevent a prophecy coming true winds up bringing it about. He's been quoted telling the story of a Duke in the English civil war who was told he would die at a certain castle. He spent the rest of his life avoiding that castle. He died at the first battle of St. Albans, outside a tavern - named after the castle, under their painted sign, which was an image of the castle.

    Now add those two elements together. You have an author who loves fixed destinies that people can't escape, and who especially loves it when they happen in unexpected ways during efforts to prevent them. You have characters that can see into the future. You have a character who can see into - and apparently manipulate - the past. You have an incredibly rich and detailed past seeded with dozens of weird, mysterious events, from massive events like the doom of Valeria, to big events like the tragedy at Summerhall, to little mysteries like what the heck happened to Ashara Dayne and her baby exactly?

    You shouldn't be gnashing your teeth and worrying that Martin has jumped the kraken.

    You should be very, very excited.
    Im ok with seeing future, and im ok with seeing past events, i just don't see what stable-time-loop made by Bran actually adds to the story. After all, these events already have happened - what's the difference if The Wall was created by Bran the Builder, or our Bran warging into him? In my opinion it would not add anything new or interesting to the story. Obviously, Martin may surprise me, but other stories i have experienced so far taught me, that adding time travel to your story is a great risk for rather small reward.

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    Raijin QuickfootRaijin Quickfoot I'm your Huckleberry YOU'RE NO DAISYRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    Asthariel wrote: »
    Asthariel wrote: »
    darleysam wrote: »
    Campy wrote: »
    darleysam wrote: »
    There was some quote I read earlier which, as someone who's not read the books, seemed to stand out in a pretty significant way (has a thing that I think is from the first book but, hey, you decide if you want to read it or not I'm not the boss of you)
    It was from probably the first book, with Old Nan telling Bran his 'favourite' story about Bran the Builder, and went off into how there seem to be so many different Brans that she merges them all into one in her head.
    I wish I could find it because the actual quote, in the context of his newly-discovered ability to... not shape the past, but be the influence that causes them to take place, it seems like a pretty significant thing.

    so what you're suggesting is that
    Bran is now going to leap from body to body within his own Bloodline, righting wrongs and hoping to one day leap home?

    Holy fuck snots.

    Wasn't...
    The original Bran the Builder the one that built the godamn wall?!

    Ah, I managed to find the quote:
    Thousands and thousands of years ago, Brandon the Builder had raised Winterfell, and some said the Wall. Bran knew the story, but it had never been his favorite. Maybe one of the other Brandons had liked that story. Sometimes Nan would talk to him as if he were her Brandon, the baby she had nursed all those years ago, and sometimes she confused him with his uncle Brandon, who was killed by the Mad King before Bran was even born. She had lived so long, Mother had told him once, that all the Brandon Starks had become one person in her head.

    Jesus fuck, no, please, no.
    I hate when time travel is added to fantasy / SF story. I like it when the story is from beginning ABOUT time travel, but i cannot think about even one series / book / movie / game, where plot was improved thanks to adding time travel. In most cases, it's the sign that author have no idea what to do next, at least in my opinion.

    Spoilers for all the books and the most recent ep.
    First, As has been pointed out, Hodor was Hodor from book one, which came out - what? 14 years ago? If a time travel element was planned for more than a decade I think it's safe to assume it's not a last desperate gasp by an author smashing against writer's block.

    Second, any story that features prophecies has an element of time travel. Prophecies are glimpses into the future. And ASoIaF is full of prophecies. Absolutely stuffed with them. The Targaryens came to Westeros because of a prophecy that Valeria would fall. The Ghost of High Heart, Maggy the Frog, Quaithe, Jojen Reed, even Dany has had the occasional prophetic dream in the books.

    Not only that, we know that Martin himself loves prophecies, and particularly loves when someone trying to prevent a prophecy coming true winds up bringing it about. He's been quoted telling the story of a Duke in the English civil war who was told he would die at a certain castle. He spent the rest of his life avoiding that castle. He died at the first battle of St. Albans, outside a tavern - named after the castle, under their painted sign, which was an image of the castle.

    Now add those two elements together. You have an author who loves fixed destinies that people can't escape, and who especially loves it when they happen in unexpected ways during efforts to prevent them. You have characters that can see into the future. You have a character who can see into - and apparently manipulate - the past. You have an incredibly rich and detailed past seeded with dozens of weird, mysterious events, from massive events like the doom of Valeria, to big events like the tragedy at Summerhall, to little mysteries like what the heck happened to Ashara Dayne and her baby exactly?

    You shouldn't be gnashing your teeth and worrying that Martin has jumped the kraken.

    You should be very, very excited.
    Im ok with seeing future, and im ok with seeing past events, i just don't see what stable-time-loop made by Bran actually adds to the story. After all, these events already have happened - what's the difference if The Wall was created by Bran the Builder, or our Bran warging into him? In my opinion it would not add anything new or interesting to the story. Obviously, Martin may surprise me, but other stories i have experienced so far taught me, that adding time travel to your story is a great risk for rather small reward.
    It doesn't necessarily need to be time travel. What if Bran exists at all times simultaneously and he is working towards remembering that? He's not traveling through time then.

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    HobnailHobnail Registered User regular
    edited May 2016
    Solar wrote: »
    Hobnail wrote: »
    Due to time travel shenanigans the 7th Royal Tank Regiment is transported from 1940 Egypt to Southern Dorne, numerous occurrences ensue

    Somehow none of them are very interesting though because Dorne

    Not until the entirety of the Grande Armée of Napoleon winds up arrayed outside King's Landing, then things start to pick up

    Hobnail on
    Broke as fuck and the bills past due, all amounts assist and are kindly received.

    https://www.paypal.me/hobnailtaylor
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    AstharielAsthariel The Book Eater Registered User regular
    Solar wrote: »
    Hobnail wrote: »
    Due to time travel shenanigans the 7th Royal Tank Regiment is transported from 1940 Egypt to Southern Dorne, numerous occurrences ensue

    Somehow none of them are very interesting though because Dorne

    Actually, they have potential to become interesting, but at the last moment Sand Snakes happen.

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    Desktop HippieDesktop Hippie Registered User regular
    Asthariel wrote: »
    Asthariel wrote: »
    darleysam wrote: »
    Campy wrote: »
    darleysam wrote: »
    There was some quote I read earlier which, as someone who's not read the books, seemed to stand out in a pretty significant way (has a thing that I think is from the first book but, hey, you decide if you want to read it or not I'm not the boss of you)
    It was from probably the first book, with Old Nan telling Bran his 'favourite' story about Bran the Builder, and went off into how there seem to be so many different Brans that she merges them all into one in her head.
    I wish I could find it because the actual quote, in the context of his newly-discovered ability to... not shape the past, but be the influence that causes them to take place, it seems like a pretty significant thing.

    so what you're suggesting is that
    Bran is now going to leap from body to body within his own Bloodline, righting wrongs and hoping to one day leap home?

    Holy fuck snots.

    Wasn't...
    The original Bran the Builder the one that built the godamn wall?!

    Ah, I managed to find the quote:
    Thousands and thousands of years ago, Brandon the Builder had raised Winterfell, and some said the Wall. Bran knew the story, but it had never been his favorite. Maybe one of the other Brandons had liked that story. Sometimes Nan would talk to him as if he were her Brandon, the baby she had nursed all those years ago, and sometimes she confused him with his uncle Brandon, who was killed by the Mad King before Bran was even born. She had lived so long, Mother had told him once, that all the Brandon Starks had become one person in her head.

    Jesus fuck, no, please, no.
    I hate when time travel is added to fantasy / SF story. I like it when the story is from beginning ABOUT time travel, but i cannot think about even one series / book / movie / game, where plot was improved thanks to adding time travel. In most cases, it's the sign that author have no idea what to do next, at least in my opinion.

    Spoilers for all the books and the most recent ep.
    First, As has been pointed out, Hodor was Hodor from book one, which came out - what? 14 years ago? If a time travel element was planned for more than a decade I think it's safe to assume it's not a last desperate gasp by an author smashing against writer's block.

    Second, any story that features prophecies has an element of time travel. Prophecies are glimpses into the future. And ASoIaF is full of prophecies. Absolutely stuffed with them. The Targaryens came to Westeros because of a prophecy that Valeria would fall. The Ghost of High Heart, Maggy the Frog, Quaithe, Jojen Reed, even Dany has had the occasional prophetic dream in the books.

    Not only that, we know that Martin himself loves prophecies, and particularly loves when someone trying to prevent a prophecy coming true winds up bringing it about. He's been quoted telling the story of a Duke in the English civil war who was told he would die at a certain castle. He spent the rest of his life avoiding that castle. He died at the first battle of St. Albans, outside a tavern - named after the castle, under their painted sign, which was an image of the castle.

    Now add those two elements together. You have an author who loves fixed destinies that people can't escape, and who especially loves it when they happen in unexpected ways during efforts to prevent them. You have characters that can see into the future. You have a character who can see into - and apparently manipulate - the past. You have an incredibly rich and detailed past seeded with dozens of weird, mysterious events, from massive events like the doom of Valeria, to big events like the tragedy at Summerhall, to little mysteries like what the heck happened to Ashara Dayne and her baby exactly?

    You shouldn't be gnashing your teeth and worrying that Martin has jumped the kraken.

    You should be very, very excited.
    Im ok with seeing future, and im ok with seeing past events, i just don't see what stable-time-loop made by Bran actually adds to the story. After all, these events already have happened - what's the difference if The Wall was created by Bran the Builder, or our Bran warging into him? In my opinion it would not add anything new or interesting to the story. Obviously, Martin may surprise me, but other stories i have experienced so far taught me, that adding time travel to your story is a great risk for rather small reward.

    I don't think it will be like that. Or at least
    I don't think Bran will wind up building the wall. That stuff is too obvious. If he does, it'll be how his character ends, back in time working away to put things in motion so the world isn't destroyed thousands of years in the future.

    I think what you're much more likely to see is Hodor level stuff, where the horrible things that have happened to people in the past are a consequence of having to fix something in the future. This is George R. R. Martin. He's not going to have Bran found the Starks. He's going to make him hurt them over and over again for the greater good.

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    Grey GhostGrey Ghost Registered User regular
    I think you guys are maybe reading too much into that quote
    she's an old lady. She gets confused. I think that's all.

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    Theodore FlooseveltTheodore Floosevelt proud parent of eight beautiful girls and shalmelo dorne (which is currently being ruled by a woman (awesome role model for my daughters)) #dornedadRegistered User regular
    Grey Ghost wrote: »
    I think you guys are maybe reading too much into that quote
    she's an old lady. She gets confused. I think that's all.

    reading too much into things goes part and parcel with my enjoyment of this series

    f2ojmwh3geue.png
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    Raijin QuickfootRaijin Quickfoot I'm your Huckleberry YOU'RE NO DAISYRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    Grey Ghost wrote: »
    I think you guys are maybe reading too much into that quote
    she's an old lady. She gets confused. I think that's all.


    charles-barsotti-businessman-s-thoughts-no-yes-maybe-maybe-yes-maybe-no-whil-cartoon_zpsqqms0ipu.jpg

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    Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    Looking back that DEFINITELY reads like foreshadowing.

    Except:
    Brandon Stark was the big muscle-head brother of Ned Stark who sliced Littlefinger and went off to die at the feet of the Mad King.

    I believe he chose trial by combat and was cooked in full plate by wildfire, because Aerys named fire as the champion of house Targaryan.

    Also: do ya'll watch "an anatomy of a scene" for this show? The one for the most recent episode is amazing with all the technical detail. A lot of shit that I thought was pure CGI was not!

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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    Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    And my books are filled to the brim with highlights of prophecies and the little hints about characters and futures.

    My favorite bit that I highlighted though comes a chapter after Melisandre tells Davos that an onion half-black with rot is a rotten Onion.

    In Jon's chapter, a guy pulls out an onion that is half rotted through, grunts, then uses his knife to cut out the rot and eats the rest of the onion.

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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    Grey GhostGrey Ghost Registered User regular
    Theories, episode 5 spoilers
    the theory that Bran will go back and be the Bran who builds the wall kinda rests on him actually physically traveling through time, which is not what he's doing

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    Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    Grey Ghost wrote: »
    Theories, episode 5 spoilers
    the theory that Bran will go back and be the Bran who builds the wall kinda rests on him actually physically traveling through time, which is not what he's doing

    They seem to be counting on
    Bran warging into people and becoming Bran the Builder from the age heroes.

    Bran that built Storm's End (maybe), founded Winterfell, and built the Wall.

    I find it highly dubious that Bran would be the closed loop Progenitor of his ancestors in any event, but he doesn't have to 'physically' move through time at all. He just needs a weirwood tree and...be able to overpower people with full capacity in the past as he wargs into them.

    The books do make it clear that, among wargs, warging into people is a grave sin and something that is not at all easy to do, even for the best of skin changers. If Hodot wasn't feeble minded I doubt Bran could have gotten a foothold.

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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    InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    Grey Ghost wrote: »
    Theories, episode 5 spoilers
    the theory that Bran will go back and be the Bran who builds the wall kinda rests on him actually physically traveling through time, which is not what he's doing

    Continued theories and episode 5 spoilers:
    Do we know what Bran is actually doing? I don't think it's been stated in definitive terms. On the surface it seems like he is just going back and observing the past, but, it has been clearly demonstrated twice now that he has the ability to influence/change the past via his actions while observing.

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    Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    Grey Ghost wrote: »
    Theories, episode 5 spoilers
    the theory that Bran will go back and be the Bran who builds the wall kinda rests on him actually physically traveling through time, which is not what he's doing

    Continued theories and episode 5 spoilers:
    Do we know what Bran is actually doing? I don't think it's been stated in definitive terms. On the surface it seems like he is just going back and observing the past, but, it has been clearly demonstrated twice now that he has the ability to influence/change the past via his actions while observing.

    Best explanation from the books that I can give you:
    He is warging into the weirwood tree and using them to observe events.

    He can call out to people in the past and create a closed time loop, but the people only notice the wind or have a feeling of someone watching them. Bloodraven even said that he has never managed to interact with the shades of the past, and that whispers lost to the wind are all it amounts to.

    In the books he looks in the past specifically through the window of the weirwood trees, and has one 'encounter' with Jon Snow in Jon's dream where he tries to open Jon's third eye. The scope of his power isn't clear, just that he seems to use the weirwoods to channel it, like Bloodraven before him.

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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    InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    Grey Ghost wrote: »
    Theories, episode 5 spoilers
    the theory that Bran will go back and be the Bran who builds the wall kinda rests on him actually physically traveling through time, which is not what he's doing

    Continued theories and episode 5 spoilers:
    Do we know what Bran is actually doing? I don't think it's been stated in definitive terms. On the surface it seems like he is just going back and observing the past, but, it has been clearly demonstrated twice now that he has the ability to influence/change the past via his actions while observing.

    Best explanation from the books that I can give you:
    He is warging into the weirwood tree and using them to observe events.

    He can call out to people in the past and create a closed time loop, but the people only notice the wind or have a feeling of someone watching them. Bloodraven even said that he has never managed to interact with the shades of the past, and that whispers lost to the wind are all it amounts to.

    In the books he looks in the past specifically through the window of the weirwood trees, and has one 'encounter' with Jon Snow in Jon's dream where he tries to open Jon's third eye. The scope of his power isn't clear, just that he seems to use the weirwoods to channel it, like Bloodraven before him.
    So he is time traveling then.

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    Grey GhostGrey Ghost Registered User regular
    Bran
    he is not physically there in the past in these visions, certainly not able to do anything like direct massive architectural undertakings
    if he wargs into someone in the past, and through him brings about the construction of the Wall, very well, but that dude is not Bran, it is a dude who had a name and a life and an identity before Bran came along

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    Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    Eh. Not really.

    Considering that the books have only scratched the surface of the three eyed Ravens abilities, we don't really know all of what Bran powers encompass yet.

    But he doesn't have an affect on events he views. At best people might hear the wind and be perturbed, but he is distinctly unable to interact with things from the past.

    The Hodor vision notwithstanding, since we don't have as clear of an idea as the book would give on why that happened. Hod or appeared to short circuit via green seer bullshit, but he seemed to do it because he wanted to Hold the Door himself, not because he was controlled.

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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    InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    edited May 2016
    Eh. Not really.

    Considering that the books have only scratched the surface of the three eyed Ravens abilities, we don't really know all of what Bran powers encompass yet.

    But he doesn't have an affect on events he views. At best people might hear the wind and be perturbed, but he is distinctly unable to interact with things from the past.

    The Hodor vision notwithstanding, since we don't have as clear of an idea as the book would give on why that happened. Hod or appeared to short circuit via green seer bullshit, but he seemed to do it because he wanted to Hold the Door himself, not because he was controlled.

    See now you are just confusing me:
    You say "he doesn't have an affect on the events he views" but then you say "people might hear the wind and be perturbed" and that is, like, 100% having an affect on things.

    So which is it?

    And clearly what he did in the past to Hodor had a massive affect on him.

    Inquisitor on
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    Mr. GMr. G Registered User regular
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    Eh. Not really.

    Considering that the books have only scratched the surface of the three eyed Ravens abilities, we don't really know all of what Bran powers encompass yet.

    But he doesn't have an affect on events he views. At best people might hear the wind and be perturbed, but he is distinctly unable to interact with things from the past.

    The Hodor vision notwithstanding, since we don't have as clear of an idea as the book would give on why that happened. Hod or appeared to short circuit via green seer bullshit, but he seemed to do it because he wanted to Hold the Door himself, not because he was controlled.

    See now you are just confusing me:
    You say "he doesn't have an affect on the events he views" but then you say "people might hear the wind and be perturbed" and that is, like, 100% having an affect on things.

    So which is it?

    And clearly what he did in the past to Hodor had a massive affect on him.

    It's a Lost thing
    Bran didn't change anything, it's what always happened

    Bran fucked up Hodor's brain, but it isn't a new way that Hodor's brain got ruined

    It's always what it was

    I don't think Bran can change the past, he's just going to discover what he already did as he does it

    6F32U1X.png
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    Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited May 2016
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    Eh. Not really.

    Considering that the books have only scratched the surface of the three eyed Ravens abilities, we don't really know all of what Bran powers encompass yet.

    But he doesn't have an affect on events he views. At best people might hear the wind and be perturbed, but he is distinctly unable to interact with things from the past.

    The Hodor vision notwithstanding, since we don't have as clear of an idea as the book would give on why that happened. Hod or appeared to short circuit via green seer bullshit, but he seemed to do it because he wanted to Hold the Door himself, not because he was controlled.

    See now you are just confusing me:
    You say "he doesn't have an affect on the events he views" but then you say "people might hear the wind and be perturbed" and that is, like, 100% having an affect on things.

    So which is it?

    And clearly what he did in the past to Hodor had a massive affect on him.

    Like many things In A song of ice and fire Gam of Thrones
    The answer is unclear. Did they hear him or did they hear the wind? At most their reaction at the time is slight confusion or being perturbed by the wind. Bloodraven has been there for near a hundred years and has never been able to make people from his past hear him or notice him, he has a few cases where they might have heard him...but they just as easily were reacting to the wind.

    Hodor is the exception and we don't know how Bran's powers caused that because the book hasn't really said anything and the show was unclear. In the present Bran has demonstrated the ability to enter a dream of Jon Snow and attempt to open his 'third eye' much like the three-eyed raven tried to do with Bran.

    Munkus Beaver on
    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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    InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    Mr. G wrote: »
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    Eh. Not really.

    Considering that the books have only scratched the surface of the three eyed Ravens abilities, we don't really know all of what Bran powers encompass yet.

    But he doesn't have an affect on events he views. At best people might hear the wind and be perturbed, but he is distinctly unable to interact with things from the past.

    The Hodor vision notwithstanding, since we don't have as clear of an idea as the book would give on why that happened. Hod or appeared to short circuit via green seer bullshit, but he seemed to do it because he wanted to Hold the Door himself, not because he was controlled.

    See now you are just confusing me:
    You say "he doesn't have an affect on the events he views" but then you say "people might hear the wind and be perturbed" and that is, like, 100% having an affect on things.

    So which is it?

    And clearly what he did in the past to Hodor had a massive affect on him.

    It's a Lost thing
    Bran didn't change anything, it's what always happened

    Bran fucked up Hodor's brain, but it isn't a new way that Hodor's brain got ruined

    It's always what it was

    I don't think Bran can change the past, he's just going to discover what he already did as he does it
    That doesn't make it not him going back in time and changing the past. A casual loop is still past changing time travel.

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    Mr. GMr. G Registered User regular
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    Mr. G wrote: »
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    Eh. Not really.

    Considering that the books have only scratched the surface of the three eyed Ravens abilities, we don't really know all of what Bran powers encompass yet.

    But he doesn't have an affect on events he views. At best people might hear the wind and be perturbed, but he is distinctly unable to interact with things from the past.

    The Hodor vision notwithstanding, since we don't have as clear of an idea as the book would give on why that happened. Hod or appeared to short circuit via green seer bullshit, but he seemed to do it because he wanted to Hold the Door himself, not because he was controlled.

    See now you are just confusing me:
    You say "he doesn't have an affect on the events he views" but then you say "people might hear the wind and be perturbed" and that is, like, 100% having an affect on things.

    So which is it?

    And clearly what he did in the past to Hodor had a massive affect on him.

    It's a Lost thing
    Bran didn't change anything, it's what always happened

    Bran fucked up Hodor's brain, but it isn't a new way that Hodor's brain got ruined

    It's always what it was

    I don't think Bran can change the past, he's just going to discover what he already did as he does it
    That doesn't make it not him going back in time and changing the past. A casual loop is still past changing time travel.
    Let me rephrase

    I don't think Bran can alter the present

    He's not gonna come back from a vision where he did something and Ned is alive and donuts rain from the sky and Walder Frey is the supreme leader

    Anything he does is what it always was, there was no universe where Wyllis did not become Hodor

    He will essentially be the last person to know what he did in history

    6F32U1X.png
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    InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    Mr. G wrote: »
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    Mr. G wrote: »
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    Eh. Not really.

    Considering that the books have only scratched the surface of the three eyed Ravens abilities, we don't really know all of what Bran powers encompass yet.

    But he doesn't have an affect on events he views. At best people might hear the wind and be perturbed, but he is distinctly unable to interact with things from the past.

    The Hodor vision notwithstanding, since we don't have as clear of an idea as the book would give on why that happened. Hod or appeared to short circuit via green seer bullshit, but he seemed to do it because he wanted to Hold the Door himself, not because he was controlled.

    See now you are just confusing me:
    You say "he doesn't have an affect on the events he views" but then you say "people might hear the wind and be perturbed" and that is, like, 100% having an affect on things.

    So which is it?

    And clearly what he did in the past to Hodor had a massive affect on him.

    It's a Lost thing
    Bran didn't change anything, it's what always happened

    Bran fucked up Hodor's brain, but it isn't a new way that Hodor's brain got ruined

    It's always what it was

    I don't think Bran can change the past, he's just going to discover what he already did as he does it
    That doesn't make it not him going back in time and changing the past. A casual loop is still past changing time travel.
    Let me rephrase

    I don't think Bran can alter the present

    He's not gonna come back from a vision where he did something and Ned is alive and donuts rain from the sky and Walder Frey is the supreme leader

    Anything he does is what it always was, there was no universe where Wyllis did not become Hodor

    He will essentially be the last person to know what he did in history

    Right and I just
    hate how that makes every single past action in the entire setting potential the work of Bran.

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    So It GoesSo It Goes We keep moving...Registered User regular
    Mr. G wrote: »
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    Mr. G wrote: »
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    Eh. Not really.

    Considering that the books have only scratched the surface of the three eyed Ravens abilities, we don't really know all of what Bran powers encompass yet.

    But he doesn't have an affect on events he views. At best people might hear the wind and be perturbed, but he is distinctly unable to interact with things from the past.

    The Hodor vision notwithstanding, since we don't have as clear of an idea as the book would give on why that happened. Hod or appeared to short circuit via green seer bullshit, but he seemed to do it because he wanted to Hold the Door himself, not because he was controlled.

    See now you are just confusing me:
    You say "he doesn't have an affect on the events he views" but then you say "people might hear the wind and be perturbed" and that is, like, 100% having an affect on things.

    So which is it?

    And clearly what he did in the past to Hodor had a massive affect on him.

    It's a Lost thing
    Bran didn't change anything, it's what always happened

    Bran fucked up Hodor's brain, but it isn't a new way that Hodor's brain got ruined

    It's always what it was

    I don't think Bran can change the past, he's just going to discover what he already did as he does it
    That doesn't make it not him going back in time and changing the past. A casual loop is still past changing time travel.
    Let me rephrase

    I don't think Bran can alter the present

    He's not gonna come back from a vision where he did something and Ned is alive and donuts rain from the sky and Walder Frey is the supreme leader

    Anything he does is what it always was, there was no universe where Wyllis did not become Hodor

    He will essentially be the last person to know what he did in history

    heh, nice reference

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    Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    Mr. G wrote: »
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    Mr. G wrote: »
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    Eh. Not really.

    Considering that the books have only scratched the surface of the three eyed Ravens abilities, we don't really know all of what Bran powers encompass yet.

    But he doesn't have an affect on events he views. At best people might hear the wind and be perturbed, but he is distinctly unable to interact with things from the past.

    The Hodor vision notwithstanding, since we don't have as clear of an idea as the book would give on why that happened. Hod or appeared to short circuit via green seer bullshit, but he seemed to do it because he wanted to Hold the Door himself, not because he was controlled.

    See now you are just confusing me:
    You say "he doesn't have an affect on the events he views" but then you say "people might hear the wind and be perturbed" and that is, like, 100% having an affect on things.

    So which is it?

    And clearly what he did in the past to Hodor had a massive affect on him.

    It's a Lost thing
    Bran didn't change anything, it's what always happened

    Bran fucked up Hodor's brain, but it isn't a new way that Hodor's brain got ruined

    It's always what it was

    I don't think Bran can change the past, he's just going to discover what he already did as he does it
    That doesn't make it not him going back in time and changing the past. A casual loop is still past changing time travel.
    Let me rephrase

    I don't think Bran can alter the present

    He's not gonna come back from a vision where he did something and Ned is alive and donuts rain from the sky and Walder Frey is the supreme leader

    Anything he does is what it always was, there was no universe where Wyllis did not become Hodor

    He will essentially be the last person to know what he did in history

    Right and I just
    hate how that makes every single past action in the entire setting potential the work of Bran.

    I think you are overestimating things.
    And the shit people are talking about...that's from the end of the Dawn Age and the start of the Age of Heroes. Bran the builder brought up the wall over 10,000 years ago. And it was likely done with help from the children of the forest anyway. And that Bran was the original Stark, so not much chance of young Bran Warging him.

    Hodor short circuited his brain, but we don't know how/why that exactly happened. I also could have sworn Hodor's name was Walder in the books. But I could be way off.

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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    NeoTomaNeoToma Registered User regular
    edited May 2016
    It's probably howland reed stuff.
    Because we don't know what that guy is doing. So Bran can effect it without altering anything already established.

    NeoToma on
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    captainkcaptaink TexasRegistered User regular
    I mean, believing that our Bran the has some contact with Bran the Builder is just the wildest speculation. Does anyone actually believe this?

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    Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    I doubt it.
    Again
    it is ridiculously hard to Warg into a human. And humans know when someone is trying to get in, and they resist hard. The only other time it's been tried in the books it was a last resort and the human being warged into killed herself.

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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    captainkcaptaink TexasRegistered User regular
    I also think it's overstating things to say that Bran can affect the past or present. Of the two instances we've seen, the Ned one was extremely minor in terms of actually effecting anything. Then, Hodor was a closed loop and a very special case. Generalizing from these that Bran can effectively travel through time is skipping several steps ahead.

    Maybe this is the LOST watcher in me quibbling though.

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    Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    Yeah people take shit off the deep end all the time. There are still people who think that Syrio Forel is still alive and that he's also Jaqen H'ghar and all this other random shit that is completely unsupported in the text.

    I mean, we're human beings. Making shit up and creating spurious correlations is basically what we do.

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    Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    There's actually a joke about Syrio Forel in one of the Winds of Winter chapters that have been released. Or at least a reference. And that plot point is related to this season, even!
    What appears to be a relative of Syrio Forel is the person responsible for the rather biting play that mocks the Western Kingdoms and makes Tyrion look like a demon usurper, and the Lannisters like fools.

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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    DeciusDecius I'm old! I'm fat! I'M BLUE!Registered User regular
    Just finished watching this. I'm wondering
    if Uncle Big Cock, Lord of the Iron Assholes, is the one responsible for burning those ships in the Meereen bay prior to his return to the Phallic Islands. If so, I say let him fuck the Dragon Queen. They'll need all the water surrounding those shitty rocks to put out the fires of his and all their corpses after she puts two and two together.

    camo_sig2.png
    I never finish anyth
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    GvzbgulGvzbgul Registered User regular
    While that is a cool idea, it would definitely fall into teleportation. No way could someone travel that fast.

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    DeciusDecius I'm old! I'm fat! I'M BLUE!Registered User regular
    Maybe he's not directly involved, but had agents do his bidding.

    It just seemed a little too conveniently timed.

    camo_sig2.png
    I never finish anyth
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    Raijin QuickfootRaijin Quickfoot I'm your Huckleberry YOU'RE NO DAISYRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    I think we're all forgetting one person in all of this speculation
    Darkstar

This discussion has been closed.