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King Joffy's all-new Game of Thrones thread.

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    NaphtaliNaphtali Hazy + Flow SeaRegistered User regular
    I think we're all forgetting one person in all of this speculation
    Darkstar

    how could one forget

    Steam | Nintendo ID: Naphtali | Wish List
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    EvilCakeEvilCake Richmond VARegistered User regular
    There's actually a joke about Syrio Forel in one of the Winds of Winter chapters that have been released. Or at least a reference. And that plot point is related to this season, even!
    What appears to be a relative of Syrio Forel is the person responsible for the rather biting play that mocks the Western Kingdoms and makes Tyrion look like a demon usurper, and the Lannisters like fools.

    you'll see YOU'LL ALL SEE when Bran wargs into Syrio and we find out how he escaped and saves the world

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    GvzbgulGvzbgul Registered User regular
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    KaplarKaplar On Google MapsRegistered User regular
    Decius wrote: »
    Maybe he's not directly involved, but had agents do his bidding.

    It just seemed a little too conveniently timed.

    Maybe he borrowed Ramsay's group of teleporting fire starters.

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    HawkstoneHawkstone Don't sweat the petty things, and don't pet the sweaty things. Somewhere outside of BarstowRegistered User regular
    Grey Ghost wrote: »
    Theories, episode 5 spoilers
    the theory that Bran will go back and be the Bran who builds the wall kinda rests on him actually physically traveling through time, which is not what he's doing

    They seem to be counting on
    Bran warging into people and becoming Bran the Builder from the age heroes.

    Bran that built Storm's End (maybe), founded Winterfell, and built the Wall.

    I find it highly dubious that Bran would be the closed loop Progenitor of his ancestors in any event, but he doesn't have to 'physically' move through time at all. He just needs a weirwood tree and...be able to overpower people with full capacity in the past as he wargs into them.

    The books do make it clear that, among wargs, warging into people is a grave sin and something that is not at all easy to do, even for the best of skin changers. If Hodot wasn't feeble minded I doubt Bran could have gotten a foothold.
    put me in the not buying multi-bran. It seems like history would be littered with mentally crushed dudes named Bran given what has happened to humans who get Warged.

    Inside of a dog...it's too dark to read.
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    Desktop HippieDesktop Hippie Registered User regular
    image.jpg

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    TheStigTheStig Registered User regular
    too soon

    bnet: TheStig#1787 Steam: TheStig
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    HerothHeroth Registered User regular
    Gvzbgul wrote: »
    While that is a cool idea, it would definitely fall into teleportation. No way could someone travel that fast.

    How do we know how much time has passed, exactly?

    1Gn4PNI.png
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    ButlerButler 89 episodes or bust Registered User regular
    Hawkstone wrote: »
    Grey Ghost wrote: »
    Theories, episode 5 spoilers
    the theory that Bran will go back and be the Bran who builds the wall kinda rests on him actually physically traveling through time, which is not what he's doing

    They seem to be counting on
    Bran warging into people and becoming Bran the Builder from the age heroes.

    Bran that built Storm's End (maybe), founded Winterfell, and built the Wall.

    I find it highly dubious that Bran would be the closed loop Progenitor of his ancestors in any event, but he doesn't have to 'physically' move through time at all. He just needs a weirwood tree and...be able to overpower people with full capacity in the past as he wargs into them.

    The books do make it clear that, among wargs, warging into people is a grave sin and something that is not at all easy to do, even for the best of skin changers. If Hodot wasn't feeble minded I doubt Bran could have gotten a foothold.
    put me in the not buying multi-bran. It seems like history would be littered with mentally crushed dudes named Bran given what has happened to humans who get Warged.

    Turns out, all the legendary figures in the history of Westeros?
    Kelloggs-All-Bran---500g.jpg

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    maritzacmaritzac Registered User regular

    Well there are lots of kinds of time travel.

    And yes, prophecies ARE time travel. Because by seeing a future event, and telling the involved people about it, you influence the future in a way that (might) change it.

    The concept of "destiny" has always played a large part in GoT. Even then, events change. Not all prophecies had come true: especial mention goes to Melissandre's notion that Stannis was going to have a victory in Winterfell and that totally did not happen.

    It was Hodor's destiny to hold the door. But wait, what if he was not Hodor? It would have been Wyllis' destiny as well. Because he was destined to become a large man, large enough to get assigned to the task of hauling around the crippled son of his lord. All the events would had led to the same thing.

    I agree with what some of what you guys are saying: Bran is not going to change the past, because he already did all the things he's gonna do.

    I admit that this is a very awesome concept.

    Bran already did all the things he's gonna do.

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    Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited May 2016
    Here's how they explain
    the concept of time using Weirwoods, aka the trees with faces carved in them that Bran wargs into to gain the past-present-future vision.

    Since a weirdwood lives for thousands and thousands of years, it perceives time differently. Whereas humans are constantly floating down the stream, Weirwoods are like giant stones stuck in the stream. Perceiving all moments from the moment they sprout until they are cut down as one solid unit.

    Basically, weirwoods just don't give a fuck about time because they live for too damn long. They just Are. And that's also where the concept of 'the old gods' comes from, kinda!

    EDIT: Oh, I forgot one neat thing from the books as well:
    There is a point when Brienne is escorting Jaime to king's landing that he lays his head down on a weirwood stump to sleep, and when he sleeps he has a vision. He sees his mother who drops some burns on his ass for being a terrible son...and I kinda forget the rest. But the point is! He put his head on the stump and boomshakalaka GREEN DREAMS!

    And as far as prophecy goes...Green Dreams (which are used by Jojen, Bran, and the Three Eyed Raven) display an immutable future. Red priests can see the future but it depends on their ability to interpret the signs...and Melisandre isn't exactly a boss at that. And then there are the witches/warlocks prophecies, which can get fucked in the ear because of how vague they are. Though I am pretty sure I know what Mirri Maz Dur was referring to, unfortunately what it might be referring to cannot happen on the show because they neglected to add in a few storylines : |

    Munkus Beaver on
    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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    Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    On another note, I keep waiting for the Isle of Faces to become significant to the story. They keep bringing it up and up in the books like it's some significant thing. And since
    the new revelations in the most recent episode regarding the Children of the forest and White Walkers
    I am wondering if it is related to some past events in the Dawn Age or the Age of Heroes.

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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    Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    Alright, so I have been rereading A Song of Ice and Fire, as is my want sometimes when I am in a lot of pain during new seasons of the show.

    And I just came across a passage from the second book that might clear up a few things:
    This is the excerpt from one of Jon's chapters:
    When he closed his eyes, he dreamed of direwolves.

    There were five of them when there should have been six, and they were scattered, each apart from the others. He felt a deep ache of emptiness, a sense of incompleteness. The forest was vast and cold, and they were so small, so lost. His brothers were out there somewhere, and his sister, but he had lost their scent. He sat on his haunches and lifted his head to the darkening sky, and his cry echoed through the forest, a long lonely mournful sound. As it died away, he pricked up his ears, listening for an answer, but the only sound was the sigh of blowing snow.

    Jon?

    The call came from behind him, softer than a whisper, but strong too. Can a shout be silent? He turned his head, searching for his brother, for a glimpse of a lean grey shape moving beneath the trees, but there was nothing only...

    A weirwood.

    It seemed to sprout from solid rock, its pale roots twisting up from a myriad of fissures and hairline cracks. The tree was slender compared to other weirwoods he had seen, no more than a sapling, yet it was growing as he watched, its limbs thickening as they reached for the sky. Wary, he circled the smooth white trunk until he came to the face. Red eyes looked at him. Fierce eyes they were, yet glad to see him. The weirwood had his brother's face. Had his brother always had three eyes?

    Not always, came the silent shout. Not before the crow.

    He sniffed at the bark, smelled wolf and tree and boy, but behind that there were other scents, the rich brown smell of warm earth and the hard grey smell of stone and something else, something terrible. Death, he knew. He was smelling death. He cringed back, his hair bristling, and bared his fangs.

    Don't be afraid, I like it in the dark. No one can see you, but you can see them. But first you have to open your eyes. See? Like this. And the tree reached down and touched him.

    So that's the bit I was talking about before, where Bran interacts with Jon via a dream. Except I was thinking it happened much later during the last book out right now: The Dance of Dragons. Jon does remember the dream and talks about it vaguely with his ranger buddies, and this is the start in the books of when Jon starts to warg into Ghost when he sleeps, as that's the very next thing that happens in the dream.

    I mean, there's not a ton of info about how Bran's powers work when he has warged into a Weirwood, but maybe ya'll can parse something from this that I missed. Keep in mind that the book this is from is littered with prophecies, from shit that predicts the red wedding to shit that still boggles me and may or may not have come to pass. This book is GRRM going absolutely nanners for predicting the future with shit, and considering that this is about a decade before Bran even touches a weirwood tree...that is some crazy foresight.

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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    InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    edited May 2016
    maritzac wrote: »

    Well there are lots of kinds of time travel.

    And yes, prophecies ARE time travel. Because by seeing a future event, and telling the involved people about it, you influence the future in a way that (might) change it.

    The concept of "destiny" has always played a large part in GoT. Even then, events change. Not all prophecies had come true: especial mention goes to Melissandre's notion that Stannis was going to have a victory in Winterfell and that totally did not happen.

    It was Hodor's destiny to hold the door. But wait, what if he was not Hodor? It would have been Wyllis' destiny as well. Because he was destined to become a large man, large enough to get assigned to the task of hauling around the crippled son of his lord. All the events would had led to the same thing.

    I agree with what some of what you guys are saying: Bran is not going to change the past, because he already did all the things he's gonna do.

    I admit that this is a very awesome concept.

    Bran already did all the things he's gonna do.

    I don't know if this is just me getting hung up on semantics or something but:
    "Bran is not going to change the past, because he already did all the things he's gonna do." Doesn't make any sense to me. Bran has changed the past. We've seen him do it twice. Just because it's a casual loop doesn't mean he didn't change the past. The timeline he is in is a result of him have changed the past. Bran has changed the past. Hodor is a direct result of Bran changing the past.

    I mean, yes Bran isn't going to change the past anymore than the unknown amount that he has already changed it in the past that makes the timelines current present. But we currently have no idea how much he has or has not changed the past at this point. He has potentially (though incredibly unlikely) had a hand in every major event that has informed the present. We just absolutely do not know yet.

    Inquisitor on
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    Theodore FlooseveltTheodore Floosevelt proud parent of eight beautiful girls and shalmelo dorne (which is currently being ruled by a woman (awesome role model for my daughters)) #dornedadRegistered User regular
    one detail that I must make mention of about last episode was
    how sweet the effects looked for max von sydow getting obliterated while warging

    f2ojmwh3geue.png
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    Desktop HippieDesktop Hippie Registered User regular
    Alright, so I have been rereading A Song of Ice and Fire, as is my want sometimes when I am in a lot of pain during new seasons of the show.

    And I just came across a passage from the second book that might clear up a few things:
    This is the excerpt from one of Jon's chapters:
    When he closed his eyes, he dreamed of direwolves.

    There were five of them when there should have been six, and they were scattered, each apart from the others. He felt a deep ache of emptiness, a sense of incompleteness. The forest was vast and cold, and they were so small, so lost. His brothers were out there somewhere, and his sister, but he had lost their scent. He sat on his haunches and lifted his head to the darkening sky, and his cry echoed through the forest, a long lonely mournful sound. As it died away, he pricked up his ears, listening for an answer, but the only sound was the sigh of blowing snow.

    Jon?

    The call came from behind him, softer than a whisper, but strong too. Can a shout be silent? He turned his head, searching for his brother, for a glimpse of a lean grey shape moving beneath the trees, but there was nothing only...

    A weirwood.

    It seemed to sprout from solid rock, its pale roots twisting up from a myriad of fissures and hairline cracks. The tree was slender compared to other weirwoods he had seen, no more than a sapling, yet it was growing as he watched, its limbs thickening as they reached for the sky. Wary, he circled the smooth white trunk until he came to the face. Red eyes looked at him. Fierce eyes they were, yet glad to see him. The weirwood had his brother's face. Had his brother always had three eyes?

    Not always, came the silent shout. Not before the crow.

    He sniffed at the bark, smelled wolf and tree and boy, but behind that there were other scents, the rich brown smell of warm earth and the hard grey smell of stone and something else, something terrible. Death, he knew. He was smelling death. He cringed back, his hair bristling, and bared his fangs.

    Don't be afraid, I like it in the dark. No one can see you, but you can see them. But first you have to open your eyes. See? Like this. And the tree reached down and touched him.

    So that's the bit I was talking about before, where Bran interacts with Jon via a dream. Except I was thinking it happened much later during the last book out right now: The Dance of Dragons. Jon does remember the dream and talks about it vaguely with his ranger buddies, and this is the start in the books of when Jon starts to warg into Ghost when he sleeps, as that's the very next thing that happens in the dream.

    I mean, there's not a ton of info about how Bran's powers work when he has warged into a Weirwood, but maybe ya'll can parse something from this that I missed. Keep in mind that the book this is from is littered with prophecies, from shit that predicts the red wedding to shit that still boggles me and may or may not have come to pass. This book is GRRM going absolutely nanners for predicting the future with shit, and considering that this is about a decade before Bran even touches a weirwood tree...that is some crazy foresight.

    There is a tonne of speculation drawn from all the books to date that
    Part of the reason SweetRobin is so messed up is because he and his crazy mum sat on a weirwood throne. You can see in the show that it's part of a dead weirwood tree, though it's not mentioned as such. In the books it's confirmed to have been made from a felled weirwood which was dragged to the top of the Eyrie.

    The very first words Robin ever says in the books are "I heard voices" and long before Littlefinger showed up he was being regularly dosed with sweetsleep - actually a potent and dangerous poison - by his Maester because he can't sleep and complains of constantly hearing singing, even when he's drugged into unconsciousness. The only other person who mentions being troubled by singing that keeps her awake is Sansa Stark.

    The Children of the Forest call themselves "those who sing the song of earth" in their native language.

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    Houk the NamebringerHouk the Namebringer Nipples The EchidnaRegistered User regular
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    maritzac wrote: »

    Well there are lots of kinds of time travel.

    And yes, prophecies ARE time travel. Because by seeing a future event, and telling the involved people about it, you influence the future in a way that (might) change it.

    The concept of "destiny" has always played a large part in GoT. Even then, events change. Not all prophecies had come true: especial mention goes to Melissandre's notion that Stannis was going to have a victory in Winterfell and that totally did not happen.

    It was Hodor's destiny to hold the door. But wait, what if he was not Hodor? It would have been Wyllis' destiny as well. Because he was destined to become a large man, large enough to get assigned to the task of hauling around the crippled son of his lord. All the events would had led to the same thing.

    I agree with what some of what you guys are saying: Bran is not going to change the past, because he already did all the things he's gonna do.

    I admit that this is a very awesome concept.

    Bran already did all the things he's gonna do.

    I don't know if this is just me getting hung up on semantics or something but:
    "Bran is not going to change the past, because he already did all the things he's gonna do." Doesn't make any sense to me. Bran has changed the past. We've seen him do it twice. Just because it's a casual loop doesn't mean he didn't change the past. The timeline he is in is a result of him have changed the past. Bran has changed the past. Hodor is a direct result of Bran changing the past.

    I mean, yes Bran isn't going to change the past anymore than the unknown amount that he has already changed it in the past that makes the timelines current present. But we currently have no idea how much he has or has not changed the past at this point. He has potentially (though incredibly unlikely) had a hand in every major event that has informed the present. We just absolutely do not know yet.
    He changed it the same way any action you take today might change the future. It's not a situation of 'the past was one way, but then Bran came along and now it's something different' like in Back to the Future. There is no separate timeline, the past and present are what they are and they've always been that way. I dunno, it feels distinct to me and I'm fine with how they're using it, so it hasn't caused me too much trouble.

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    darleysamdarleysam On my way to UKRegistered User regular
    Alright, so I have been rereading A Song of Ice and Fire, as is my want sometimes when I am in a lot of pain during new seasons of the show.

    And I just came across a passage from the second book that might clear up a few things:
    This is the excerpt from one of Jon's chapters:
    When he closed his eyes, he dreamed of direwolves.

    There were five of them when there should have been six, and they were scattered, each apart from the others. He felt a deep ache of emptiness, a sense of incompleteness. The forest was vast and cold, and they were so small, so lost. His brothers were out there somewhere, and his sister, but he had lost their scent. He sat on his haunches and lifted his head to the darkening sky, and his cry echoed through the forest, a long lonely mournful sound. As it died away, he pricked up his ears, listening for an answer, but the only sound was the sigh of blowing snow.

    Jon?

    The call came from behind him, softer than a whisper, but strong too. Can a shout be silent? He turned his head, searching for his brother, for a glimpse of a lean grey shape moving beneath the trees, but there was nothing only...

    A weirwood.

    It seemed to sprout from solid rock, its pale roots twisting up from a myriad of fissures and hairline cracks. The tree was slender compared to other weirwoods he had seen, no more than a sapling, yet it was growing as he watched, its limbs thickening as they reached for the sky. Wary, he circled the smooth white trunk until he came to the face. Red eyes looked at him. Fierce eyes they were, yet glad to see him. The weirwood had his brother's face. Had his brother always had three eyes?

    Not always, came the silent shout. Not before the crow.

    He sniffed at the bark, smelled wolf and tree and boy, but behind that there were other scents, the rich brown smell of warm earth and the hard grey smell of stone and something else, something terrible. Death, he knew. He was smelling death. He cringed back, his hair bristling, and bared his fangs.

    Don't be afraid, I like it in the dark. No one can see you, but you can see them. But first you have to open your eyes. See? Like this. And the tree reached down and touched him.

    So that's the bit I was talking about before, where Bran interacts with Jon via a dream. Except I was thinking it happened much later during the last book out right now: The Dance of Dragons. Jon does remember the dream and talks about it vaguely with his ranger buddies, and this is the start in the books of when Jon starts to warg into Ghost when he sleeps, as that's the very next thing that happens in the dream.

    I mean, there's not a ton of info about how Bran's powers work when he has warged into a Weirwood, but maybe ya'll can parse something from this that I missed. Keep in mind that the book this is from is littered with prophecies, from shit that predicts the red wedding to shit that still boggles me and may or may not have come to pass. This book is GRRM going absolutely nanners for predicting the future with shit, and considering that this is about a decade before Bran even touches a weirwood tree...that is some crazy foresight.

    There is a tonne of speculation drawn from all the books to date that
    Part of the reason SweetRobin is so messed up is because he and his crazy mum sat on a weirwood throne. You can see in the show that it's part of a dead weirwood tree, though it's not mentioned as such. In the books it's confirmed to have been made from a felled weirwood which was dragged to the top of the Eyrie.

    The very first words Robin ever says in the books are "I heard voices" and long before Littlefinger showed up he was being regularly dosed with sweetsleep - actually a potent and dangerous poison - by his Maester because he can't sleep and complains of constantly hearing singing, even when he's drugged into unconsciousness. The only other person who mentions being troubled by singing that keeps her awake is Sansa Stark.

    The Children of the Forest call themselves "those who sing the song of earth" in their native language.
    I think anyone would lose their mind having this in their head at all times

    forumsig.png
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    InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    Houk wrote: »
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    maritzac wrote: »

    Well there are lots of kinds of time travel.

    And yes, prophecies ARE time travel. Because by seeing a future event, and telling the involved people about it, you influence the future in a way that (might) change it.

    The concept of "destiny" has always played a large part in GoT. Even then, events change. Not all prophecies had come true: especial mention goes to Melissandre's notion that Stannis was going to have a victory in Winterfell and that totally did not happen.

    It was Hodor's destiny to hold the door. But wait, what if he was not Hodor? It would have been Wyllis' destiny as well. Because he was destined to become a large man, large enough to get assigned to the task of hauling around the crippled son of his lord. All the events would had led to the same thing.

    I agree with what some of what you guys are saying: Bran is not going to change the past, because he already did all the things he's gonna do.

    I admit that this is a very awesome concept.

    Bran already did all the things he's gonna do.

    I don't know if this is just me getting hung up on semantics or something but:
    "Bran is not going to change the past, because he already did all the things he's gonna do." Doesn't make any sense to me. Bran has changed the past. We've seen him do it twice. Just because it's a casual loop doesn't mean he didn't change the past. The timeline he is in is a result of him have changed the past. Bran has changed the past. Hodor is a direct result of Bran changing the past.

    I mean, yes Bran isn't going to change the past anymore than the unknown amount that he has already changed it in the past that makes the timelines current present. But we currently have no idea how much he has or has not changed the past at this point. He has potentially (though incredibly unlikely) had a hand in every major event that has informed the present. We just absolutely do not know yet.
    He changed it the same way any action you take today might change the future. It's not a situation of 'the past was one way, but then Bran came along and now it's something different' like in Back to the Future. There is no separate timeline, the past and present are what they are and they've always been that way. I dunno, it feels distinct to me and I'm fine with how they're using it, so it hasn't caused me too much trouble.

    Wait but:
    It is totally "the past was one way, but then Bran came along and now it's something different" it's just that Bran and everyone else is already living in that something different, unlike in back to the future where the present changed

    I dunno maybe I'm just not getting the distinction here but it doesn't feel particularly meaningful to me.

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    PsykomaPsykoma Registered User regular
    Alright, so I have been rereading A Song of Ice and Fire, as is my want sometimes when I am in a lot of pain during new seasons of the show.

    And I just came across a passage from the second book that might clear up a few things:
    This is the excerpt from one of Jon's chapters:
    When he closed his eyes, he dreamed of direwolves.

    There were five of them when there should have been six, and they were scattered, each apart from the others. He felt a deep ache of emptiness, a sense of incompleteness. The forest was vast and cold, and they were so small, so lost. His brothers were out there somewhere, and his sister, but he had lost their scent. He sat on his haunches and lifted his head to the darkening sky, and his cry echoed through the forest, a long lonely mournful sound. As it died away, he pricked up his ears, listening for an answer, but the only sound was the sigh of blowing snow.

    Jon?

    The call came from behind him, softer than a whisper, but strong too. Can a shout be silent? He turned his head, searching for his brother, for a glimpse of a lean grey shape moving beneath the trees, but there was nothing only...

    A weirwood.

    It seemed to sprout from solid rock, its pale roots twisting up from a myriad of fissures and hairline cracks. The tree was slender compared to other weirwoods he had seen, no more than a sapling, yet it was growing as he watched, its limbs thickening as they reached for the sky. Wary, he circled the smooth white trunk until he came to the face. Red eyes looked at him. Fierce eyes they were, yet glad to see him. The weirwood had his brother's face. Had his brother always had three eyes?

    Not always, came the silent shout. Not before the crow.

    He sniffed at the bark, smelled wolf and tree and boy, but behind that there were other scents, the rich brown smell of warm earth and the hard grey smell of stone and something else, something terrible. Death, he knew. He was smelling death. He cringed back, his hair bristling, and bared his fangs.

    Don't be afraid, I like it in the dark. No one can see you, but you can see them. But first you have to open your eyes. See? Like this. And the tree reached down and touched him.

    So that's the bit I was talking about before, where Bran interacts with Jon via a dream. Except I was thinking it happened much later during the last book out right now: The Dance of Dragons. Jon does remember the dream and talks about it vaguely with his ranger buddies, and this is the start in the books of when Jon starts to warg into Ghost when he sleeps, as that's the very next thing that happens in the dream.

    I mean, there's not a ton of info about how Bran's powers work when he has warged into a Weirwood, but maybe ya'll can parse something from this that I missed. Keep in mind that the book this is from is littered with prophecies, from shit that predicts the red wedding to shit that still boggles me and may or may not have come to pass. This book is GRRM going absolutely nanners for predicting the future with shit, and considering that this is about a decade before Bran even touches a weirwood tree...that is some crazy foresight.

    There is a tonne of speculation drawn from all the books to date that
    Part of the reason SweetRobin is so messed up is because he and his crazy mum sat on a weirwood throne. You can see in the show that it's part of a dead weirwood tree, though it's not mentioned as such. In the books it's confirmed to have been made from a felled weirwood which was dragged to the top of the Eyrie.

    The very first words Robin ever says in the books are "I heard voices" and long before Littlefinger showed up he was being regularly dosed with sweetsleep - actually a potent and dangerous poison - by his Maester because he can't sleep and complains of constantly hearing singing, even when he's drugged into unconsciousness. The only other person who mentions being troubled by singing that keeps her awake is Sansa Stark.

    The Children of the Forest call themselves "those who sing the song of earth" in their native language.

    I hadn't heard of that theory. The one which I had followed as an explanation was:
    Lysa got pregnant from Petyr, Hoster Tully forced her to drink moon tea to abort the pregnancy and sent Petyr away. The moon tea, while usually working safely, really fucked up Lysa's internals and drastically affected her ability to have children (a lot of stillborns happened in Kings Landing before she spent any real time in the Eyrie), and consequently really affected Robin.

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    TofystedethTofystedeth Registered User regular
    Speaking of crazy book theories, I heard a new one last Sunday from a friend.
    Book stuff and speculations
    Meera and Jon are twins. At the ToJ Ned took Jon, and Howland took Meera.
    There's apparently some support for this in the book as Bran describes Meera as reminding him of Arya, who is herself described as the only Stark kid who looks like Lyanna.
    Also the Three Eyed Raven is Bryndan Rivers who has one of the two Targaryn Valyrian swords, so she could take that. Or something.

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    Desktop HippieDesktop Hippie Registered User regular
    Psykoma wrote: »
    Alright, so I have been rereading A Song of Ice and Fire, as is my want sometimes when I am in a lot of pain during new seasons of the show.

    And I just came across a passage from the second book that might clear up a few things:
    This is the excerpt from one of Jon's chapters:
    When he closed his eyes, he dreamed of direwolves.

    There were five of them when there should have been six, and they were scattered, each apart from the others. He felt a deep ache of emptiness, a sense of incompleteness. The forest was vast and cold, and they were so small, so lost. His brothers were out there somewhere, and his sister, but he had lost their scent. He sat on his haunches and lifted his head to the darkening sky, and his cry echoed through the forest, a long lonely mournful sound. As it died away, he pricked up his ears, listening for an answer, but the only sound was the sigh of blowing snow.

    Jon?

    The call came from behind him, softer than a whisper, but strong too. Can a shout be silent? He turned his head, searching for his brother, for a glimpse of a lean grey shape moving beneath the trees, but there was nothing only...

    A weirwood.

    It seemed to sprout from solid rock, its pale roots twisting up from a myriad of fissures and hairline cracks. The tree was slender compared to other weirwoods he had seen, no more than a sapling, yet it was growing as he watched, its limbs thickening as they reached for the sky. Wary, he circled the smooth white trunk until he came to the face. Red eyes looked at him. Fierce eyes they were, yet glad to see him. The weirwood had his brother's face. Had his brother always had three eyes?

    Not always, came the silent shout. Not before the crow.

    He sniffed at the bark, smelled wolf and tree and boy, but behind that there were other scents, the rich brown smell of warm earth and the hard grey smell of stone and something else, something terrible. Death, he knew. He was smelling death. He cringed back, his hair bristling, and bared his fangs.

    Don't be afraid, I like it in the dark. No one can see you, but you can see them. But first you have to open your eyes. See? Like this. And the tree reached down and touched him.

    So that's the bit I was talking about before, where Bran interacts with Jon via a dream. Except I was thinking it happened much later during the last book out right now: The Dance of Dragons. Jon does remember the dream and talks about it vaguely with his ranger buddies, and this is the start in the books of when Jon starts to warg into Ghost when he sleeps, as that's the very next thing that happens in the dream.

    I mean, there's not a ton of info about how Bran's powers work when he has warged into a Weirwood, but maybe ya'll can parse something from this that I missed. Keep in mind that the book this is from is littered with prophecies, from shit that predicts the red wedding to shit that still boggles me and may or may not have come to pass. This book is GRRM going absolutely nanners for predicting the future with shit, and considering that this is about a decade before Bran even touches a weirwood tree...that is some crazy foresight.

    There is a tonne of speculation drawn from all the books to date that
    Part of the reason SweetRobin is so messed up is because he and his crazy mum sat on a weirwood throne. You can see in the show that it's part of a dead weirwood tree, though it's not mentioned as such. In the books it's confirmed to have been made from a felled weirwood which was dragged to the top of the Eyrie.

    The very first words Robin ever says in the books are "I heard voices" and long before Littlefinger showed up he was being regularly dosed with sweetsleep - actually a potent and dangerous poison - by his Maester because he can't sleep and complains of constantly hearing singing, even when he's drugged into unconsciousness. The only other person who mentions being troubled by singing that keeps her awake is Sansa Stark.

    The Children of the Forest call themselves "those who sing the song of earth" in their native language.

    I hadn't heard of that theory. The one which I had followed as an explanation was:
    Lysa got pregnant from Petyr, Hoster Tully forced her to drink moon tea to abort the pregnancy and sent Petyr away. The moon tea, while usually working safely, really fucked up Lysa's internals and drastically affected her ability to have children (a lot of stillborns happened in Kings Landing before she spent any real time in the Eyrie), and consequently really affected Robin.

    That theory is the stronger one by far, with much more evidence to back it up. However, it does look like the first theory has some merit, and may be a contributing factor.

    It's unbelievable how many whacky theories the books inspire. My all time favourite is
    Bolt-on, the theory that Roose is an immortal creature similar to a Wight Walker (his eyes are described as a startlingly bright icy blue) who wears the skins of others to appear Human. It suggests that he keeps Ramsay around because he has the same blue eyes and he plans to kill Ramsay, skin him and wear his skin to pass himself off as him when people start to wonder why Roose isn't aging.

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    AbdhyiusAbdhyius Registered User regular
    Psykoma wrote: »
    Alright, so I have been rereading A Song of Ice and Fire, as is my want sometimes when I am in a lot of pain during new seasons of the show.

    And I just came across a passage from the second book that might clear up a few things:
    This is the excerpt from one of Jon's chapters:
    When he closed his eyes, he dreamed of direwolves.

    There were five of them when there should have been six, and they were scattered, each apart from the others. He felt a deep ache of emptiness, a sense of incompleteness. The forest was vast and cold, and they were so small, so lost. His brothers were out there somewhere, and his sister, but he had lost their scent. He sat on his haunches and lifted his head to the darkening sky, and his cry echoed through the forest, a long lonely mournful sound. As it died away, he pricked up his ears, listening for an answer, but the only sound was the sigh of blowing snow.

    Jon?

    The call came from behind him, softer than a whisper, but strong too. Can a shout be silent? He turned his head, searching for his brother, for a glimpse of a lean grey shape moving beneath the trees, but there was nothing only...

    A weirwood.

    It seemed to sprout from solid rock, its pale roots twisting up from a myriad of fissures and hairline cracks. The tree was slender compared to other weirwoods he had seen, no more than a sapling, yet it was growing as he watched, its limbs thickening as they reached for the sky. Wary, he circled the smooth white trunk until he came to the face. Red eyes looked at him. Fierce eyes they were, yet glad to see him. The weirwood had his brother's face. Had his brother always had three eyes?

    Not always, came the silent shout. Not before the crow.

    He sniffed at the bark, smelled wolf and tree and boy, but behind that there were other scents, the rich brown smell of warm earth and the hard grey smell of stone and something else, something terrible. Death, he knew. He was smelling death. He cringed back, his hair bristling, and bared his fangs.

    Don't be afraid, I like it in the dark. No one can see you, but you can see them. But first you have to open your eyes. See? Like this. And the tree reached down and touched him.

    So that's the bit I was talking about before, where Bran interacts with Jon via a dream. Except I was thinking it happened much later during the last book out right now: The Dance of Dragons. Jon does remember the dream and talks about it vaguely with his ranger buddies, and this is the start in the books of when Jon starts to warg into Ghost when he sleeps, as that's the very next thing that happens in the dream.

    I mean, there's not a ton of info about how Bran's powers work when he has warged into a Weirwood, but maybe ya'll can parse something from this that I missed. Keep in mind that the book this is from is littered with prophecies, from shit that predicts the red wedding to shit that still boggles me and may or may not have come to pass. This book is GRRM going absolutely nanners for predicting the future with shit, and considering that this is about a decade before Bran even touches a weirwood tree...that is some crazy foresight.

    There is a tonne of speculation drawn from all the books to date that
    Part of the reason SweetRobin is so messed up is because he and his crazy mum sat on a weirwood throne. You can see in the show that it's part of a dead weirwood tree, though it's not mentioned as such. In the books it's confirmed to have been made from a felled weirwood which was dragged to the top of the Eyrie.

    The very first words Robin ever says in the books are "I heard voices" and long before Littlefinger showed up he was being regularly dosed with sweetsleep - actually a potent and dangerous poison - by his Maester because he can't sleep and complains of constantly hearing singing, even when he's drugged into unconsciousness. The only other person who mentions being troubled by singing that keeps her awake is Sansa Stark.

    The Children of the Forest call themselves "those who sing the song of earth" in their native language.

    I hadn't heard of that theory. The one which I had followed as an explanation was:
    Lysa got pregnant from Petyr, Hoster Tully forced her to drink moon tea to abort the pregnancy and sent Petyr away. The moon tea, while usually working safely, really fucked up Lysa's internals and drastically affected her ability to have children (a lot of stillborns happened in Kings Landing before she spent any real time in the Eyrie), and consequently really affected Robin.

    That theory is the stronger one by far, with much more evidence to back it up. However, it does look like the first theory has some merit, and may be a contributing factor.

    It's unbelievable how many whacky theories the books inspire. My all time favourite is
    Bolt-on, the theory that Roose is an immortal creature similar to a Wight Walker (his eyes are described as a startlingly bright icy blue) who wears the skins of others to appear Human. It suggests that he keeps Ramsay around because he has the same blue eyes and he plans to kill Ramsay, skin him and wear his skin to pass himself off as him when people start to wonder why Roose isn't aging.

    I love that theory mainly for the name of it

    ftOqU21.png
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    AbdhyiusAbdhyius Registered User regular
    Psykoma wrote: »
    Alright, so I have been rereading A Song of Ice and Fire, as is my want sometimes when I am in a lot of pain during new seasons of the show.

    And I just came across a passage from the second book that might clear up a few things:
    This is the excerpt from one of Jon's chapters:
    When he closed his eyes, he dreamed of direwolves.

    There were five of them when there should have been six, and they were scattered, each apart from the others. He felt a deep ache of emptiness, a sense of incompleteness. The forest was vast and cold, and they were so small, so lost. His brothers were out there somewhere, and his sister, but he had lost their scent. He sat on his haunches and lifted his head to the darkening sky, and his cry echoed through the forest, a long lonely mournful sound. As it died away, he pricked up his ears, listening for an answer, but the only sound was the sigh of blowing snow.

    Jon?

    The call came from behind him, softer than a whisper, but strong too. Can a shout be silent? He turned his head, searching for his brother, for a glimpse of a lean grey shape moving beneath the trees, but there was nothing only...

    A weirwood.

    It seemed to sprout from solid rock, its pale roots twisting up from a myriad of fissures and hairline cracks. The tree was slender compared to other weirwoods he had seen, no more than a sapling, yet it was growing as he watched, its limbs thickening as they reached for the sky. Wary, he circled the smooth white trunk until he came to the face. Red eyes looked at him. Fierce eyes they were, yet glad to see him. The weirwood had his brother's face. Had his brother always had three eyes?

    Not always, came the silent shout. Not before the crow.

    He sniffed at the bark, smelled wolf and tree and boy, but behind that there were other scents, the rich brown smell of warm earth and the hard grey smell of stone and something else, something terrible. Death, he knew. He was smelling death. He cringed back, his hair bristling, and bared his fangs.

    Don't be afraid, I like it in the dark. No one can see you, but you can see them. But first you have to open your eyes. See? Like this. And the tree reached down and touched him.

    So that's the bit I was talking about before, where Bran interacts with Jon via a dream. Except I was thinking it happened much later during the last book out right now: The Dance of Dragons. Jon does remember the dream and talks about it vaguely with his ranger buddies, and this is the start in the books of when Jon starts to warg into Ghost when he sleeps, as that's the very next thing that happens in the dream.

    I mean, there's not a ton of info about how Bran's powers work when he has warged into a Weirwood, but maybe ya'll can parse something from this that I missed. Keep in mind that the book this is from is littered with prophecies, from shit that predicts the red wedding to shit that still boggles me and may or may not have come to pass. This book is GRRM going absolutely nanners for predicting the future with shit, and considering that this is about a decade before Bran even touches a weirwood tree...that is some crazy foresight.

    There is a tonne of speculation drawn from all the books to date that
    Part of the reason SweetRobin is so messed up is because he and his crazy mum sat on a weirwood throne. You can see in the show that it's part of a dead weirwood tree, though it's not mentioned as such. In the books it's confirmed to have been made from a felled weirwood which was dragged to the top of the Eyrie.

    The very first words Robin ever says in the books are "I heard voices" and long before Littlefinger showed up he was being regularly dosed with sweetsleep - actually a potent and dangerous poison - by his Maester because he can't sleep and complains of constantly hearing singing, even when he's drugged into unconsciousness. The only other person who mentions being troubled by singing that keeps her awake is Sansa Stark.

    The Children of the Forest call themselves "those who sing the song of earth" in their native language.

    I hadn't heard of that theory. The one which I had followed as an explanation was:
    Lysa got pregnant from Petyr, Hoster Tully forced her to drink moon tea to abort the pregnancy and sent Petyr away. The moon tea, while usually working safely, really fucked up Lysa's internals and drastically affected her ability to have children (a lot of stillborns happened in Kings Landing before she spent any real time in the Eyrie), and consequently really affected Robin.

    I like both a lot.
    because my favourite answer to "Is it magic or mundane?" is "Yes."

    ftOqU21.png
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    AbdhyiusAbdhyius Registered User regular
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    Houk wrote: »
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    maritzac wrote: »

    Well there are lots of kinds of time travel.

    And yes, prophecies ARE time travel. Because by seeing a future event, and telling the involved people about it, you influence the future in a way that (might) change it.

    The concept of "destiny" has always played a large part in GoT. Even then, events change. Not all prophecies had come true: especial mention goes to Melissandre's notion that Stannis was going to have a victory in Winterfell and that totally did not happen.

    It was Hodor's destiny to hold the door. But wait, what if he was not Hodor? It would have been Wyllis' destiny as well. Because he was destined to become a large man, large enough to get assigned to the task of hauling around the crippled son of his lord. All the events would had led to the same thing.

    I agree with what some of what you guys are saying: Bran is not going to change the past, because he already did all the things he's gonna do.

    I admit that this is a very awesome concept.

    Bran already did all the things he's gonna do.

    I don't know if this is just me getting hung up on semantics or something but:
    "Bran is not going to change the past, because he already did all the things he's gonna do." Doesn't make any sense to me. Bran has changed the past. We've seen him do it twice. Just because it's a casual loop doesn't mean he didn't change the past. The timeline he is in is a result of him have changed the past. Bran has changed the past. Hodor is a direct result of Bran changing the past.

    I mean, yes Bran isn't going to change the past anymore than the unknown amount that he has already changed it in the past that makes the timelines current present. But we currently have no idea how much he has or has not changed the past at this point. He has potentially (though incredibly unlikely) had a hand in every major event that has informed the present. We just absolutely do not know yet.
    He changed it the same way any action you take today might change the future. It's not a situation of 'the past was one way, but then Bran came along and now it's something different' like in Back to the Future. There is no separate timeline, the past and present are what they are and they've always been that way. I dunno, it feels distinct to me and I'm fine with how they're using it, so it hasn't caused me too much trouble.

    Wait but:
    It is totally "the past was one way, but then Bran came along and now it's something different" it's just that Bran and everyone else is already living in that something different, unlike in back to the future where the present changed

    I dunno maybe I'm just not getting the distinction here but it doesn't feel particularly meaningful to me.
    The problem is that "the past was one way" is meaningless. There can't have been a point where it got changed. The past is the past and always was that way, just that some events had effects before they happened.

    Which as someone mentioned earlier, is functionally identical to true prophecies, only difference is that we're seeing it from the other end.

    ftOqU21.png
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    azith28azith28 Registered User regular
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    Goose! wrote: »
    I think you guys are misinterpreting that ending.
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the Three-Eyed Raven, in the book, like...present in all times/eras sort of thing? Like, do you know what I mean? Like the present where Bran is being taught by him and the present where he is in Winterfell with young Hodor/Walder/Wylis are not different for him, sort of like the alien in MIB 3? What I mean to say is, this isn't Bran changing anything, it has always happened that way.

    Sorry, but to me that is just dumb, dumb, dumb, and I hate it.

    I'm not even watching the show, and I love shit like this. Give me all the cleverly done closed loop time paradox stories.

    Stercus, Stercus, Stercus, Morituri Sum
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    Desktop HippieDesktop Hippie Registered User regular
    Speaking of crazy book theories, I heard a new one last Sunday from a friend.
    Book stuff and speculations
    Meera and Jon are twins. At the ToJ Ned took Jon, and Howland took Meera.
    There's apparently some support for this in the book as Bran describes Meera as reminding him of Arya, who is herself described as the only Stark kid who looks like Lyanna.
    Also the Three Eyed Raven is Bryndan Rivers who has one of the two Targaryn Valyrian swords, so she could take that. Or something.

    The craziest theory I've heard so far is
    that Howland Reed has been talked up like crazy but has never made an appearance to support anyone or take part in the wars because he's off being the High Sparrow so he can destroy the Lannisters (and eventually King's Landing) for what they did to Ned and his children.

    Sadly that theory doesn't stand up when you examine it critically, but it's a shame as it would be a really kickass reveal.

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    el_vicioel_vicio Registered User regular
    Alright, so I have been rereading A Song of Ice and Fire, as is my want sometimes when I am in a lot of pain during new seasons of the show.

    And I just came across a passage from the second book that might clear up a few things:
    This is the excerpt from one of Jon's chapters:
    When he closed his eyes, he dreamed of direwolves.

    There were five of them when there should have been six, and they were scattered, each apart from the others. He felt a deep ache of emptiness, a sense of incompleteness. The forest was vast and cold, and they were so small, so lost. His brothers were out there somewhere, and his sister, but he had lost their scent. He sat on his haunches and lifted his head to the darkening sky, and his cry echoed through the forest, a long lonely mournful sound. As it died away, he pricked up his ears, listening for an answer, but the only sound was the sigh of blowing snow.

    Jon?

    The call came from behind him, softer than a whisper, but strong too. Can a shout be silent? He turned his head, searching for his brother, for a glimpse of a lean grey shape moving beneath the trees, but there was nothing only...

    A weirwood.

    It seemed to sprout from solid rock, its pale roots twisting up from a myriad of fissures and hairline cracks. The tree was slender compared to other weirwoods he had seen, no more than a sapling, yet it was growing as he watched, its limbs thickening as they reached for the sky. Wary, he circled the smooth white trunk until he came to the face. Red eyes looked at him. Fierce eyes they were, yet glad to see him. The weirwood had his brother's face. Had his brother always had three eyes?

    Not always, came the silent shout. Not before the crow.

    He sniffed at the bark, smelled wolf and tree and boy, but behind that there were other scents, the rich brown smell of warm earth and the hard grey smell of stone and something else, something terrible. Death, he knew. He was smelling death. He cringed back, his hair bristling, and bared his fangs.

    Don't be afraid, I like it in the dark. No one can see you, but you can see them. But first you have to open your eyes. See? Like this. And the tree reached down and touched him.

    So that's the bit I was talking about before, where Bran interacts with Jon via a dream. Except I was thinking it happened much later during the last book out right now: The Dance of Dragons. Jon does remember the dream and talks about it vaguely with his ranger buddies, and this is the start in the books of when Jon starts to warg into Ghost when he sleeps, as that's the very next thing that happens in the dream.

    I mean, there's not a ton of info about how Bran's powers work when he has warged into a Weirwood, but maybe ya'll can parse something from this that I missed. Keep in mind that the book this is from is littered with prophecies, from shit that predicts the red wedding to shit that still boggles me and may or may not have come to pass. This book is GRRM going absolutely nanners for predicting the future with shit, and considering that this is about a decade before Bran even touches a weirwood tree...that is some crazy foresight.

    There is a tonne of speculation drawn from all the books to date that
    Part of the reason SweetRobin is so messed up is because he and his crazy mum sat on a weirwood throne. You can see in the show that it's part of a dead weirwood tree, though it's not mentioned as such. In the books it's confirmed to have been made from a felled weirwood which was dragged to the top of the Eyrie.

    The very first words Robin ever says in the books are "I heard voices" and long before Littlefinger showed up he was being regularly dosed with sweetsleep - actually a potent and dangerous poison - by his Maester because he can't sleep and complains of constantly hearing singing, even when he's drugged into unconsciousness. The only other person who mentions being troubled by singing that keeps her awake is Sansa Stark.

    The Children of the Forest call themselves "those who sing the song of earth" in their native language.

    I like this a lot

    ouxsemmi8rm9.png

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    MonstyMonsty Registered User regular
    edited May 2016
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    Houk wrote: »
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    maritzac wrote: »

    Well there are lots of kinds of time travel.

    And yes, prophecies ARE time travel. Because by seeing a future event, and telling the involved people about it, you influence the future in a way that (might) change it.

    The concept of "destiny" has always played a large part in GoT. Even then, events change. Not all prophecies had come true: especial mention goes to Melissandre's notion that Stannis was going to have a victory in Winterfell and that totally did not happen.

    It was Hodor's destiny to hold the door. But wait, what if he was not Hodor? It would have been Wyllis' destiny as well. Because he was destined to become a large man, large enough to get assigned to the task of hauling around the crippled son of his lord. All the events would had led to the same thing.

    I agree with what some of what you guys are saying: Bran is not going to change the past, because he already did all the things he's gonna do.

    I admit that this is a very awesome concept.

    Bran already did all the things he's gonna do.

    I don't know if this is just me getting hung up on semantics or something but:
    "Bran is not going to change the past, because he already did all the things he's gonna do." Doesn't make any sense to me. Bran has changed the past. We've seen him do it twice. Just because it's a casual loop doesn't mean he didn't change the past. The timeline he is in is a result of him have changed the past. Bran has changed the past. Hodor is a direct result of Bran changing the past.

    I mean, yes Bran isn't going to change the past anymore than the unknown amount that he has already changed it in the past that makes the timelines current present. But we currently have no idea how much he has or has not changed the past at this point. He has potentially (though incredibly unlikely) had a hand in every major event that has informed the present. We just absolutely do not know yet.
    He changed it the same way any action you take today might change the future. It's not a situation of 'the past was one way, but then Bran came along and now it's something different' like in Back to the Future. There is no separate timeline, the past and present are what they are and they've always been that way. I dunno, it feels distinct to me and I'm fine with how they're using it, so it hasn't caused me too much trouble.

    Wait but:
    It is totally "the past was one way, but then Bran came along and now it's something different" it's just that Bran and everyone else is already living in that something different, unlike in back to the future where the present changed

    I dunno maybe I'm just not getting the distinction here but it doesn't feel particularly meaningful to me.
    Yeah, maybe the distinction isn't that meaningful, but it's still made to show that...
    The past can't be undone.

    The simplest way I can explain it all is as such: You're given a history book that happens to have some typos in it. Then the typos are fixed and you are given that version of the book. Nothing changed, but the truth has finally been presented to you. We are merely along for that ride of discovery. But what was always was.

    Monsty on
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    Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    On the subject of visions:

    In the book, unlike the show, it really does seem like all the visions Bran gets from warging into a weirwood are from the perspective of a weir wood. The show has him walking around because it's easier to film and let's them do flashbacks to things like the Tower of Joy.

    Qhorin even says, before he and Jon are captured, that "the trees have eyes again".

    Any wonder why the First Men and the Andals would cut down the weir wood trees during their wars with the children of the forest

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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    Desktop HippieDesktop Hippie Registered User regular
    On the subject of visions:

    In the book, unlike the show, it really does seem like all the visions Bran gets from warging into a weirwood are from the perspective of a weir wood. The show has him walking around because it's easier to film and let's them do flashbacks to things like the Tower of Joy.

    Qhorin even says, before he and Jon are captured, that "the trees have eyes again".

    Any wonder why the First Men and the Andals would cut down the weir wood trees during their wars with the children of the forest

    It gets better. Lotsa book spoilers.
    Jojen says the Children of the Forest enter the weirdwood trees upon their death and the trees absorb all their knowledge, allowing them to live on in what sounds like a weird sort of hive mind with every other weirdwood tree. This collective consciousness is the Old Gods the first men worship.

    The Children / trees also have the ability to enter animals. Bran asks Bloodraven if all birds have Singers in them, and he confirms it. Robert Baratheon says the boar that killed him was "sent by the Gods" and tells how he "stabbed the bastard in the eye." Bloodraven is a one-eyed Targaryen bastard, physically connected to the weirdwood trees of the Old Gods, with the ability to warg into animals from afar.

    In the North, executions always take place at a weirdwood tree. The deserter in the first book is beheaded at a weirdwood tree or stump, not the rock they use in the first episode of the TV show. This might pass the executed person's consciousness and memories into the trees, letting it be absorbed by the Children. Marriages and important ceremonies also happen in front of weirdwood so the Old Gods can witness them - which the trees actually do. Lyanna and Raegar were at one point very close to the Southernmost weirdwood tree still standing, so if they did indeed marry the ceremony may have happened there, meaning Bran can see it sometime.

    Varamyr Sixskins was seen as the most powerful warg North of the wall. He fails miserably to warg into a person. Bran, a little boy, wargs into Hodor accidentally. There is another point in a later book where Bran thinks about warging, then thinks about Meera. Meera immediately bolts from the room in an unexplained panic. Bran is still a kid, learning how to expand his power. Already he beats Varamyr Sixskins hands down.

    It is just possible that, if Bran winds up connected to a weirdwood tree like Bloodraven, he will give the Children of the Forest the key to controlling the minds of humans. In which case the Wight Walkers move down a notch on the scale of "bad guys everyone needs to be worried about."

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    darleysamdarleysam On my way to UKRegistered User regular
    I will say, I absolutely love how much everyone's autocorrect hates the word 'weirwood'.

    forumsig.png
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    HobnailHobnail Registered User regular
    My autocorrect hates the word "ill", corrects it to I'll every single time

    Broke as fuck and the bills past due, all amounts assist and are kindly received.

    https://www.paypal.me/hobnailtaylor
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    BobbleBobble Registered User regular
    darleysam wrote: »
    I will say, I absolutely love how much everyone's autocorrect hates the word 'weirwood'.

    It's ducking ridiculous, sometimes.

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    darleysamdarleysam On my way to UKRegistered User regular
    Hobnail wrote: »
    My autocorrect hates the word "ill", corrects it to I'll every single time

    Sounds like it has a...

    license to I'll.

    8-)

    forumsig.png
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    NeoTomaNeoToma Registered User regular
    Ugh, what a Payne

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    EncEnc A Fool with Compassion Pronouns: He, Him, HisRegistered User regular
    edited May 2016
    Speaking of crazy book theories, I heard a new one last Sunday from a friend.
    Book stuff and speculations
    Meera and Jon are twins. At the ToJ Ned took Jon, and Howland took Meera.
    There's apparently some support for this in the book as Bran describes Meera as reminding him of Arya, who is herself described as the only Stark kid who looks like Lyanna.
    Also the Three Eyed Raven is Bryndan Rivers who has one of the two Targaryn Valyrian swords, so she could take that. Or something.

    The craziest theory I've heard so far is
    that Howland Reed has been talked up like crazy but has never made an appearance to support anyone or take part in the wars because he's off being the High Sparrow so he can destroy the Lannisters (and eventually King's Landing) for what they did to Ned and his children.

    Sadly that theory doesn't stand up when you examine it critically, but it's a shame as it would be a really kickass reveal.

    My favorite book theory (now disproven by the show):
    At the tower of joy Howland Reed perma-warged Arthur Dane to keep him from killing Ned Stark, but not before taking a mortal wound. He then hid himself and returned home, residing ins seclusion from the world (explaining the 3/4ths mysteries of the tower of joy scene:
    1) How Ned beat Arthur Dayne (and impossible task)
    2) Why Howland hasn't been seen by anyone but his children since.
    3) Why no body/sword of Arthur Dane was ever recovered.

    The fourth is fairly obvious, that Jon is Layassa and Rhaegar's child, is still likely to be confirmed, but I really liked the warg theory on that battle.

    Enc on
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    rhylithrhylith Death Rabbits HoustonRegistered User regular
    There's no reason why that can't still happen in the book!

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    Desktop HippieDesktop Hippie Registered User regular
    Agreed! There's a lot of book stuff that is clearly never going to show up in the TV show now, and it wouldn't surprise me at all if the show ends in a different way to the books.
    I don't think we'll ever see Arya warg or Euron blowing that dragon horn thing, and the Children of the Forest / Old Gods / hive mind theory I mentioned above that seems more and more likely in the books wouldn't work in the show at all.

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    The GeekThe Geek Oh-Two Crew, Omeganaut Registered User, ClubPA regular
    Kaplar wrote: »
    Decius wrote: »
    Maybe he's not directly involved, but had agents do his bidding.

    It just seemed a little too conveniently timed.

    Maybe he borrowed Ramsay's group of teleporting fire starters.
    Prodigy-Firestarter.jpg

    BLM - ACAB
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