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[Better Call Saul] S'All Good Man

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  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
    Warren 2020
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  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Registered User regular
    Here's series co-creator Peter Gould giving extremely vague hints as to the fates of every character, with separate entries for Jimmy, Saul, and Gene.

    Switch: 3947-4890-9293
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Double episode for tonight's premiere.

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
    Warren 2020
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  • ColanutColanut Siedge WealdRegistered User regular
    edited April 19
    Fuck, Amazon is not selling the season pass by episode, have to get an AMC+ pass (another stupid “Name+” sub?). Maybe season episodes are available a little later, but no bundle for the season upfront. Apple TV has the first episode for sale, but no season purchase. I have all the other seasons on Amazon, so, I’d like to keep them all there.

    Edit: iTunes TV has a season pass, not AppleTV, dumb. Maybe Amazon will in a day or two. First one is free.

    Enough about that, on with the show- beautiful shots and filming. Joy.

    Colanut on
  • GONG-00GONG-00 Registered User regular
    Season Premiere:
    Car at the end, the detective that was with the DA or Lalo?

    Black lives matter.
    Law and Order ≠ Justice
    ACNH Island Isla Cero: DA-3082-2045-4142
    Still waiting on Dan "Man of his Word" Ryckert to eat a hat
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  • ouchiesouchies Registered User regular
    edited April 19
    GONG-00 wrote: »
    Season Premiere:
    Car at the end, the detective that was with the DA or Lalo?
    At the end of Episode 2? I thought that was Mike’s old jalopy.

    ouchies on
  • borschevskyborschevsky Registered User regular
    This show is so good. It’s been so long since last season that I’d sort of forgotten, but it’s just great to watch.

    Rhesus PositiveZilla360AbsoluteZeroArmsForPeace84
  • reVersereVerse Attack and Dethrone God Registered User regular
    This show is shot so well. Every now and then there's a shot where nothing much happens, but it doesn't matter because it looks gorgeous.

    borschevskyAbsoluteZeroKasynArmsForPeace84N1tSt4lker
  • OneAngryPossumOneAngryPossum Registered User regular
    I enjoyed this, it was very well done, everything related to Kim was an A+…

    But I also remember how Breaking Bad was capable of wrapping up one problem in an episode just to set up another in the next while also building out its characters. So that this took two hours to progress things just a scooch was a little bit of a bummer, even though what’s there is all high quality.

    ArmsForPeace84
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    I kinda forgot how Gilligan (and especially Gould) have pacing even David Simon would be like "this is a tad deliberate, no?"

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
    Warren 2020
    DocOneAngryPossum
  • KasynKasyn Registered User regular
    Episode 2 of the latest season, question on something that doesn't make sense to me...
    Why is Gus' plan to lead the Salamancas to Nacho? (By framing him with a payout and leaving his location in the replacement safe.) Does he not worry that Nacho would be captured and immediately confirm that Gus masterminded the hit? Does he think they'd just kill him without asking who he was in league with?

    I can't tell if this is merely that not all aspects of Gus' master plan have been revealed yet or just a genuine plot hole, which would be really uncharacteristic of this show.

  • KasynKasyn Registered User regular
    I enjoyed this, it was very well done, everything related to Kim was an A+…

    But I also remember how Breaking Bad was capable of wrapping up one problem in an episode just to set up another in the next while also building out its characters. So that this took two hours to progress things just a scooch was a little bit of a bummer, even though what’s there is all high quality.

    I like the slow burn approach in BCS, I think it's responsible for a lot of the affinity we've developed for the characters / their relationships and helps raise the stakes in a way that's beyond simply putting the characters in literal, immediate danger. BrBa did a LOT more of the latter. In all these little peeks at things like Jimmy and Kim's domestic life, or Mike's inner turmoil, we get a good sense of what's actually at stake for these characters in a way that's still compelling despite the fact that we know for meta reasons that Jimmy / Mike / Gus etc. all survive into Breaking Bad.

    Sure, the show itself isn't always gunplay & life and death, but what we get instead is access to deeper dimensions and more complex and nuanced arcs for more characters than what BrBa attempted. Just the character of Kim in BCS is arguably just as if not more nuanced than even Walt. There's definite upside to the approach here, IMO.

    Hybrid
  • borschevskyborschevsky Registered User regular
    Kasyn wrote: »
    Episode 2 of the latest season, question on something that doesn't make sense to me...
    I agree, it doesn’t really make sense. Hopefully it’s just that there’s more we haven’t been shown yet.

  • reVersereVerse Attack and Dethrone God Registered User regular
    Kasyn wrote: »
    Episode 2 of the latest season, question on something that doesn't make sense to me...
    Why is Gus' plan to lead the Salamancas to Nacho? (By framing him with a payout and leaving his location in the replacement safe.) Does he not worry that Nacho would be captured and immediately confirm that Gus masterminded the hit? Does he think they'd just kill him without asking who he was in league with?

    I can't tell if this is merely that not all aspects of Gus' master plan have been revealed yet or just a genuine plot hole, which would be really uncharacteristic of this show.
    Nacho's instructions were to shoot if anyone comes to the door, so the plan was for him to die in a shootout.

    It's a weak plan with a lot of chances for it to go wrong, but this version of Gus is not as infallibly mastermindical as Walt perceived him to be.

  • Rhesus PositiveRhesus Positive GNU Terry Pratchett Registered User regular
    reVerse wrote: »
    Kasyn wrote: »
    Episode 2 of the latest season, question on something that doesn't make sense to me...
    Why is Gus' plan to lead the Salamancas to Nacho? (By framing him with a payout and leaving his location in the replacement safe.) Does he not worry that Nacho would be captured and immediately confirm that Gus masterminded the hit? Does he think they'd just kill him without asking who he was in league with?

    I can't tell if this is merely that not all aspects of Gus' master plan have been revealed yet or just a genuine plot hole, which would be really uncharacteristic of this show.
    Nacho's instructions were to shoot if anyone comes to the door, so the plan was for him to die in a shootout.

    It's a weak plan with a lot of chances for it to go wrong, but this version of Gus is not as infallibly mastermindical as Walt perceived him to be.
    One thing that's already set up to go wrong: the twins confirmed that they're looking to take Nacho alive

    [Muffled sounds of gorilla violence]
  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Regent Rockin' ShoujoRegistered User regular
    Are both episodes on AMC+ yet? Was thinking of signing up for the seven day trial just to watch them.

    oK4l3R4.png
  • DeliciousTacosDeliciousTacos Registered User regular
    I’d imagine the guy they had watching Nacho probably also had instructions to kill him if the cartel didn’t manage

  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    cj iwakura wrote: »
    Are both episodes on AMC+ yet? Was thinking of signing up for the seven day trial just to watch them.

    Should be. I watched them on AMC yesterday with my parents' cable subscription. Imagine they'd be on AMC+ at the same time.

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
    Warren 2020
  • KasynKasyn Registered User regular
    reVerse wrote: »
    Kasyn wrote: »
    Episode 2 of the latest season, question on something that doesn't make sense to me...
    Why is Gus' plan to lead the Salamancas to Nacho? (By framing him with a payout and leaving his location in the replacement safe.) Does he not worry that Nacho would be captured and immediately confirm that Gus masterminded the hit? Does he think they'd just kill him without asking who he was in league with?

    I can't tell if this is merely that not all aspects of Gus' master plan have been revealed yet or just a genuine plot hole, which would be really uncharacteristic of this show.
    Nacho's instructions were to shoot if anyone comes to the door, so the plan was for him to die in a shootout.

    It's a weak plan with a lot of chances for it to go wrong, but this version of Gus is not as infallibly mastermindical as Walt perceived him to be.
    Is him getting snuffed by Gus' people (who would have had the chance, he was reliant on them for extraction) and never found by the Salamancas somehow less suspicious than him dying in a shootout?

    I get that maybe he's not peak Gus intelligence, but this rates below even amateur Gus level cunning. They shouldn't nerf a character's intellect to unbelievable degrees just to advance the plot.

    Small quibble though, not a huge deal. Show's still great.

  • Dark Raven XDark Raven X Laugh hard, run fast, be kindRegistered User regular
    In his defence, this is already way off the rails.
    plan was for the mercs to smoke Lalo, then presumably grab and/or kill Nacho on the way out. Everything they've done since has been panicked making shit up on the go.

    Oh brilliant
  • OneAngryPossumOneAngryPossum Registered User regular
    I’ll complain about the pacing, but I think the show knows that what ya’ll are talking about isn’t a great plan:
    Gus breaking a water pitcher and having to kneel down to pick up all the pieces is in line with, ‘I’m not fully in control of this situation and I know it.’

    Rhesus PositiveDark Raven XZilla360GONG-00VegemyteN1tSt4lker
  • GnizmoGnizmo Registered User regular
    Kasyn wrote: »
    Episode 2 of the latest season, question on something that doesn't make sense to me...
    Why is Gus' plan to lead the Salamancas to Nacho? (By framing him with a payout and leaving his location in the replacement safe.) Does he not worry that Nacho would be captured and immediately confirm that Gus masterminded the hit? Does he think they'd just kill him without asking who he was in league with?

    I can't tell if this is merely that not all aspects of Gus' master plan have been revealed yet or just a genuine plot hole, which would be really uncharacteristic of this show.

    Episode 2 spoiler
    Honestly, it feels like this matches his Breaking Bad character absolutely perfectly. He is meticulous, calculating, and extremely careful in almost every aspect of his life. His one blind spot is his quest for revenge on the Salamancas. It is the weakness that ultimately leads to his death. Gus just gets severe tunnel vision and goes straight for the pain.

  • KasynKasyn Registered User regular
    edited April 22
    Gnizmo wrote: »
    Kasyn wrote: »
    Episode 2 of the latest season, question on something that doesn't make sense to me...
    Why is Gus' plan to lead the Salamancas to Nacho? (By framing him with a payout and leaving his location in the replacement safe.) Does he not worry that Nacho would be captured and immediately confirm that Gus masterminded the hit? Does he think they'd just kill him without asking who he was in league with?

    I can't tell if this is merely that not all aspects of Gus' master plan have been revealed yet or just a genuine plot hole, which would be really uncharacteristic of this show.

    Episode 2 spoiler
    Honestly, it feels like this matches his Breaking Bad character absolutely perfectly. He is meticulous, calculating, and extremely careful in almost every aspect of his life. His one blind spot is his quest for revenge on the Salamancas. It is the weakness that ultimately leads to his death. Gus just gets severe tunnel vision and goes straight for the pain.
    I get that he wants revenge, I get why he'd not be his sharpest self in that moment, and I get that he's not at his smartest by this point in the series. I don't feel like any of that explains such an elaborate plan that is ultimately incoherent. He goes through the trouble of fabricating a payout, installing a replacement safe, keeping tabs on Nacho, then setting the Salamancas on him - just to potentially get him killed? Literally just kill him yourself at that point, instead of relying on this insane Rube Goldberg machine of a plan that maybe does a thing you could easily have done in that position.

    If they added like, a single line about how he thinks it all works better if Nacho meets his end in a shootout with the Salamancas, then I could at least see what his internal decisionmaking is here. But we don't even get that much? We have to make these weirdly tortured assumptions about his line of thought here just to arrive at an understanding of what the fuck is going on in a storyline that involves like half the major cast.

    Moreover, none of the above about Gus' state of mind applies to Mike, who is most definitely intelligent enough to see a plan that doesn't make sense - and also demonstrably unafraid to challenge Gus on things, to a point. This all requires him to be operating at an out-of-character level of intelligence as well, which seems a bit much.

    Since asking this question originally I've learned that apparently a fuckload of viewers are as confused about all this as I am, tweeting at the creators to clarify. That shouldn't be the effect a story has on the audience.

    Bizarrely out of character for a show as thoughtful and well put together as this.

    Kasyn on
    Zilla360
  • GnizmoGnizmo Registered User regular
    Kasyn wrote: »
    Gnizmo wrote: »
    Kasyn wrote: »
    Episode 2 of the latest season, question on something that doesn't make sense to me...
    Why is Gus' plan to lead the Salamancas to Nacho? (By framing him with a payout and leaving his location in the replacement safe.) Does he not worry that Nacho would be captured and immediately confirm that Gus masterminded the hit? Does he think they'd just kill him without asking who he was in league with?

    I can't tell if this is merely that not all aspects of Gus' master plan have been revealed yet or just a genuine plot hole, which would be really uncharacteristic of this show.

    Episode 2 spoiler
    Honestly, it feels like this matches his Breaking Bad character absolutely perfectly. He is meticulous, calculating, and extremely careful in almost every aspect of his life. His one blind spot is his quest for revenge on the Salamancas. It is the weakness that ultimately leads to his death. Gus just gets severe tunnel vision and goes straight for the pain.
    I get that he wants revenge, I get why he'd not be his sharpest self in that moment, and I get that he's not at his smartest by this point in the series. I don't feel like any of that explains such an elaborate plan that is ultimately incoherent. He goes through the trouble of fabricating a payout, installing a replacement safe, keeping tabs on Nacho, then setting the Salamancas on him - just to potentially get him killed? Literally just kill him yourself at that point, instead of relying on this insane Rube Goldberg machine of a plan that maybe does a thing you could easily have done in that position.

    If they added like, a single line about how he thinks it all works better if Nacho meets his end in a shootout with the Salamancas, then I could at least see what his internal decisionmaking is here. But we don't even get that much? We have to make these weirdly tortured assumptions about his line of thought here just to arrive at an understanding of what the fuck is going on in a storyline that involves like half the major cast.

    Moreover, none of the above about Gus' state of mind applies to Mike, who is most definitely intelligent enough to see a plan that doesn't make sense - and also demonstrably unafraid to challenge Gus on things, to a point. This all requires him to be operating at an out-of-character level of intelligence as well, which seems a bit much.

    Since asking this question originally I've learned that apparently a fuckload of viewers are as confused about all this as I am, tweeting at the creators to clarify. That shouldn't be the effect a story has on the audience.

    Bizarrely out of character for a show as thoughtful and well put together as this.

    Episode 2 spoilers
    That is a very good point about Mike. Gus would easily be blinded by his revenge, but Mike would at least voice his opposition. A scene showing the two disagreeing could also help build up to Mike saying no in this one. They definitely had time to develop the plot point as well.

  • Sanguinius666264Sanguinius666264 Registered User regular
    Given the usual amount of thought that goes into the story line, I wouldn't be surprised if there was something else that Gus had planned for Nacho that he hasn't shared yet.

    GnizmoZilla360
  • DiannaoChongDiannaoChong Registered User regular
    E2 spoilers: I thought
    the guy watching him was to report back, if he runs. Because he calls home, and then they get his father. That guy had a cooler, I dont think he was there to kill Nacho. Salamancas would be watching anything that crosses the border for him for a while.

    steam_sig.png
  • ZavianZavian universal peace sounds better than forever war Registered User regular

  • DeliciousTacosDeliciousTacos Registered User regular
    Rhea Seehorn's first role:

    Rhesus PositivealtidDiannaoChongKasynArmsForPeace84Worsel96
  • KasynKasyn Registered User regular
    edited April 26
    God damn. This fuckin' show.

    Kasyn on
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  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    I did not think Michael Mando was capable of that performance when I first saw him (on Orphan Black).

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
    Warren 2020
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  • GONG-00GONG-00 Registered User regular
    S6E3
    With Lalo still on the board, I get the feeling that Nacho's attempt to save his father will be in vain

    Black lives matter.
    Law and Order ≠ Justice
    ACNH Island Isla Cero: DA-3082-2045-4142
    Still waiting on Dan "Man of his Word" Ryckert to eat a hat
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  • ArmsForPeace84ArmsForPeace84 Your Partner In Freedom Registered User regular
    S6E3
    No, really, huge spoiler.
    Man, I’m sorry to see Michael Mando bow out so early in the final season.

    But how amazing was that performance? That was Shakespearean. And not the high school play Shakespeare. The Bill in a dark mood, Titus Andronicus, baking people into pies Shakespeare. We might get a flashback of him, but that would almost certainly mean his father is in someone’s crosshairs. Which would be worrisome even with Mike insurance.

    Ignacio went out like an absolute boss. Gus got to say some cold shit to Hector in BB, but he could never say “I put you in that chair.” Or, because he arranged to shift the blame, ever claim to have as many Salamanca bodies on him.

    Also, he knows this war isn’t over. No matter how well he played his part, all these people who were using him are in for a world of hurt.

    KasynreVerseRhesus PositivealtidZilla360RiusAbsoluteZerochromdomN1tSt4lkerSporkAndrew
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    GONG-00 wrote: »
    S6E3
    With Lalo still on the board, I get the feeling that Nacho's attempt to save his father will be in vain
    Forget Lalo, he just made Hector super mad and wanting revenge.

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
    Warren 2020
  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    GONG-00 wrote: »
    S6E3
    With Lalo still on the board, I get the feeling that Nacho's attempt to save his father will be in vain
    Forget Lalo, he just made Hector super mad and wanting revenge.
    He had no chance of reaching Hector at the end. Was his plan to get Hector to move against his Father thus forcing Mike to end him?

    I'm thinking not. I'm guessing he just wanted to claim back some power and agency at the end. To let Hector know this person he ignored was the reason he'd been crippled.

    Also notes on the previous "Get Nacho to die in a shootout" plan: It feels real clear that while Mike might have known the plan, he didn't put it together. Part of the reason it was a shitty bad plan?

    Nod. Get treat. PSN: Quippish
    enlightenedbumZilla360N1tSt4lker
  • ArmsForPeace84ArmsForPeace84 Your Partner In Freedom Registered User regular
    edited April 27
    GONG-00 wrote: »
    S6E3
    With Lalo still on the board, I get the feeling that Nacho's attempt to save his father will be in vain
    Forget Lalo, he just made Hector super mad and wanting revenge.
    He had no chance of reaching Hector at the end. Was his plan to get Hector to move against his Father thus forcing Mike to end him?

    I'm thinking not. I'm guessing he just wanted to claim back some power and agency at the end. To let Hector know this person he ignored was the reason he'd been crippled.

    Also notes on the previous "Get Nacho to die in a shootout" plan: It feels real clear that while Mike might have known the plan, he didn't put it together. Part of the reason it was a shitty bad plan?

    Yeah, although the payoff was worth it, there’s at least one way things didn’t add up with this subplot.
    I don’t see how Gus puts this plan together and Nacho leaves the compound alive. In fact, just in case the plan fails, the shooters would take him out first, as quietly as possible. Maybe Gus was reliant on Mike for the planning and/or the briefing, and had to make that one concession to get his buy-in. But I don’t see Mike getting that involved in the details of such a scorched earth operation.

    Now, if they were that confident of success, the plan might have been to go back and blow the door with breaching charges, or leave some scaling ladders around the perimeter. But then the details of how the assault went down would have to add up for the Salamancas to not work out that this was done by a small team catching everybody by surprise. Too many loose ends for the chicken man.

    ArmsForPeace84 on
  • Dark Raven XDark Raven X Laugh hard, run fast, be kindRegistered User regular
    edited April 27
    I wonder how this is all gonna resolve, because the future dialogue in BrBa that they're beholden to is sorta the exact opposite of where we're currently at
    Saul thinks Lalo sent Walt and Jesse to kill him and says it "wasn't me, it was Ignacio!"

    So this has to end with Saul believing Lalo is alive and pissed at him, and that Nacho is probably dead because he's safe to throw under the bus...

    Lalo has gotta intersect with Saul's story at least once more, somehow.

    Edit also, holy shit episode 3
    always liked Michael Mando since Orphan Black, but goddamn did he crush that final scene.

    I really liked that every single person involved in that moment meets a violent end, it's like they went out of their way not to use any redshirts beyond people we know for sure get murdered. It's like Nacho cursed them.

    Dark Raven X on
    Oh brilliant
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  • ArmsForPeace84ArmsForPeace84 Your Partner In Freedom Registered User regular
    edited April 29
    I wonder how this is all gonna resolve, because the future dialogue in BrBa that they're beholden to is sorta the exact opposite of where we're currently at
    Saul thinks Lalo sent Walt and Jesse to kill him and says it "wasn't me, it was Ignacio!"

    So this has to end with Saul believing Lalo is alive and pissed at him, and that Nacho is probably dead because he's safe to throw under the bus...

    Lalo has gotta intersect with Saul's story at least once more, somehow.

    Another possibility is
    that the prosecutor, detectives, or simply news reports, reveal to Saul that Lalo is alive. Maybe even sighted in New Mexico. As for Nacho, well, Saul may not have known or suspected that he was dead. But simply been so terrified in the moment that he’d give Ignacio up.

    That might seem incongruous with Saul’s BB-era reputation for loyalty. Until one remembers that almost immediately after this, he floats the idea (twice) of killing Badger. Not the last time he would make that suggestion about a client.

    ArmsForPeace84 on
    Dark Raven XZilla360
  • bwaniebwanie Posting into the void Registered User regular
    edited April 30
    Meh i thought (hoped) he'd at least try and get some of these fuckers to go down with him. 1 to the temple or 20 to whatever it's not gonna be much longer.

    bwanie on
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  • GONG-00GONG-00 Registered User regular
    edited May 3
    S6E4
    Mike’s 1 in a 1000 feels like a 100%

    Edit:
    Also much to read into how their respective El Chapo Tunnel reflects on whom Gus and Lalo are as characters.

    GONG-00 on
    Black lives matter.
    Law and Order ≠ Justice
    ACNH Island Isla Cero: DA-3082-2045-4142
    Still waiting on Dan "Man of his Word" Ryckert to eat a hat
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  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    What the hell did they do with Odenkirk's makeup in this episode. It is genuinely disturbing.

    Also, directed by Rhea Seehorn!

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
    Warren 2020
    DevoutlyApatheticKasynAbsoluteZeroZilla360ArmsForPeace84FoolOnTheHill
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