Did this latest episode improve at all over the season premiere? Because the premiere was such a dull reshuffle of past plot points that I might be done with this show.
Yes, but (at least for now) there is a Big Secret that will surely have Consequences. The upside is that it's not Oliver keeping something from everyone.
It's Diggle and his arm/hand with a degenerative nerve disorder from the shrapnel he took on Lian Yu.
No flashbacks though.
There was a Flash Back...pack!
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minor incidentexpert in a dying fieldnjRegistered Userregular
I love that Ollie's kid likes the Flash so much more than Green Arrow.
And I also love that Flash is so beloved that he has merchandise.
Ah, it stinks, it sucks, it's anthropologically unjust
Did this latest episode improve at all over the season premiere? Because the premiere was such a dull reshuffle of past plot points that I might be done with this show.
TBH I am on the fence with watching CW shows at all at this point. But reading this thread reminded me that they're putting more of a focus on Anatoli and he is one of my favorite characters so...
I am feeling pretty fucking done with Supergirl and Flash though.
Did this latest episode improve at all over the season premiere? Because the premiere was such a dull reshuffle of past plot points that I might be done with this show.
TBH I am on the fence with watching CW shows at all at this point. But reading this thread reminded me that they're putting more of a focus on Anatoli and he is one of my favorite characters so...
I am feeling pretty fucking done with Supergirl and Flash though.
I get not wanting to suffer through Flash, but Supergirl has been quite solid.
Did this latest episode improve at all over the season premiere? Because the premiere was such a dull reshuffle of past plot points that I might be done with this show.
TBH I am on the fence with watching CW shows at all at this point. But reading this thread reminded me that they're putting more of a focus on Anatoli and he is one of my favorite characters so...
I am feeling pretty fucking done with Supergirl and Flash though.
I get not wanting to suffer through Flash, but Supergirl has been quite solid.
Arrow 'verse ranking:
1) Legends of Tomorrow
2) Supergirl
3) Arrow
4) Flash
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minor incidentexpert in a dying fieldnjRegistered Userregular
Did this latest episode improve at all over the season premiere? Because the premiere was such a dull reshuffle of past plot points that I might be done with this show.
TBH I am on the fence with watching CW shows at all at this point. But reading this thread reminded me that they're putting more of a focus on Anatoli and he is one of my favorite characters so...
I am feeling pretty fucking done with Supergirl and Flash though.
I get not wanting to suffer through Flash, but Supergirl has been quite solid.
Arrow 'verse ranking:
1) Legends of Tomorrow
2) Supergirl
3) Arrow
4) Flash
Last season of Flash would have me agreeing, but then the HR thing at the end was one of the best damn things that show has done, so it bumped it back up to third for me. And thankfully (minor flash spoilers)
no more evil speedster this season, so I'm cool with Flash again! Also, the reaction to Wally leaving where everyone was just like "Oh... Well, cool! Enjoy the trip! See ya!" was darkly hilarious. No one on that show gives two shits about Wally West.
Which makes him a perfect Legend.
And the fact that Legends straight up acknowledges how all of them are colossal fuckups over and over this season definitely cements it at #1.
minor incident on
Ah, it stinks, it sucks, it's anthropologically unjust
Did this latest episode improve at all over the season premiere? Because the premiere was such a dull reshuffle of past plot points that I might be done with this show.
TBH I am on the fence with watching CW shows at all at this point. But reading this thread reminded me that they're putting more of a focus on Anatoli and he is one of my favorite characters so...
I am feeling pretty fucking done with Supergirl and Flash though.
I get not wanting to suffer through Flash, but Supergirl has been quite solid.
Arrow 'verse ranking:
1) Legends of Tomorrow
2) Supergirl
3) Arrow
4) Flash
Last season of Flash would have me agreeing, but then the HR thing at the end was one of the best damn things that show has done, so it bumped it back up to third for me. And thankfully no more evil speedster this season, so I'm cool with Flash again! Also, the reaction to Wally leaving where everyone was just like "Oh... Well, cool! Enjoy the trip! See ya!" was darkly hilarious. No one on that show gives two shits about Wally West.
Which makes him a perfect Legend.
And the fact that Legends straight up acknowledges how all of them are colossal fuckups over and over this season definitely cements it at #1.
I'm behind on the shows, though I'm able to catch clips every so often so I'm up to speed. My interest in Flash never recovered after season 2.
Did this latest episode improve at all over the season premiere? Because the premiere was such a dull reshuffle of past plot points that I might be done with this show.
TBH I am on the fence with watching CW shows at all at this point. But reading this thread reminded me that they're putting more of a focus on Anatoli and he is one of my favorite characters so...
I am feeling pretty fucking done with Supergirl and Flash though.
I get not wanting to suffer through Flash, but Supergirl has been quite solid.
Arrow 'verse ranking:
1) Legends of Tomorrow
2) Supergirl
3) Arrow
4) Flash
Last season of Flash would have me agreeing, but then the HR thing at the end was one of the best damn things that show has done, so it bumped it back up to third for me. And thankfully no more evil speedster this season, so I'm cool with Flash again! Also, the reaction to Wally leaving where everyone was just like "Oh... Well, cool! Enjoy the trip! See ya!" was darkly hilarious. No one on that show gives two shits about Wally West.
Which makes him a perfect Legend.
And the fact that Legends straight up acknowledges how all of them are colossal fuckups over and over this season definitely cements it at #1.
I think my favorite thing about Wally leaving is how right he was about nobody noticing or caring about him.
All through the episode, no matter how bad things got or how imminently looming certain doom was I never once thought to myself "Hey, where's Wally in all this? Maybe he could help.".
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minor incidentexpert in a dying fieldnjRegistered Userregular
Did this latest episode improve at all over the season premiere? Because the premiere was such a dull reshuffle of past plot points that I might be done with this show.
TBH I am on the fence with watching CW shows at all at this point. But reading this thread reminded me that they're putting more of a focus on Anatoli and he is one of my favorite characters so...
I am feeling pretty fucking done with Supergirl and Flash though.
I get not wanting to suffer through Flash, but Supergirl has been quite solid.
Arrow 'verse ranking:
1) Legends of Tomorrow
2) Supergirl
3) Arrow
4) Flash
Last season of Flash would have me agreeing, but then the HR thing at the end was one of the best damn things that show has done, so it bumped it back up to third for me. And thankfully no more evil speedster this season, so I'm cool with Flash again! Also, the reaction to Wally leaving where everyone was just like "Oh... Well, cool! Enjoy the trip! See ya!" was darkly hilarious. No one on that show gives two shits about Wally West.
Which makes him a perfect Legend.
And the fact that Legends straight up acknowledges how all of them are colossal fuckups over and over this season definitely cements it at #1.
I think my favorite thing about Wally leaving is how right he was about nobody noticing or caring about him.
All through the episode, no matter how bad things got or how imminently looming certain doom was I never once thought to myself "Hey, where's Wally in all this? Maybe he could help.".
Haha. When he was like "did you even notice I wasn't here?" it was like he was speaking directly to me.
Ah, it stinks, it sucks, it's anthropologically unjust
+2
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minor incidentexpert in a dying fieldnjRegistered Userregular
And man, the breakup cube is my favorite Earth 2 thing ever.
Ah, it stinks, it sucks, it's anthropologically unjust
I guess Black Lighting and Constantine, even though they aren't out yet.
...
...
Stubbing your toe.
...
...
The Flash
+1
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Brainiac 8Don't call me Shirley...Registered Userregular
It's funny to me how some are so down on Flash. Even at it's worst, the show is still entertaining to me.
Supergirl lost me last season and I'm just now catching up on Netflix slowly. Melissa is great and I love the actor that plays Superman, but everything else was not blah to me.
Legends was the best last season and Arrow was second.
minor incidentexpert in a dying fieldnjRegistered Userregular
edited October 2017
Flash just went back to the same well too many times, I think. It's like how every single Iron Man villain in the movies is a rich white industrialist. Except Iron Man 3 pulled off the fakeout better than Flash Season 3 did.
I'm super hopeful for this season to be a return to form, and also something fairly different, from a villain perspective.
minor incident on
Ah, it stinks, it sucks, it's anthropologically unjust
Flash also treats its female characters with utter disregard. Barry keeps secrets from them for literally no reason and Iris keeps getting damseled (that was the entire premise of last season). Joe talks about both of his "sons" being heroes...right in front of Iris. Caitlin's only plot comes when she is dating someone or turning evil.
And the show wallows in misery. Barry can't make anything better; he can only delay the horror...unless he is becoming the horror. How many times do _we_ have to see his mom/dad die?
And finally, I'm the viewer that can suspend disbelief, but only too a point, and only in service to a greater narrative goal. It is painfully obvious thst the Flash writers didn't even have an endgame for season 3 mapped out until the halfway point or more, and even then they might as well have thrown a dart at the plot board for how much sense it made.
Arrow had a good fakeout last season. The Vigilante/Prometheus thing was clever. It used our preconceived notions against us. It didn't randomly make something up and act like it was a clever twist...it also didn't rely on a lot of time duplicate mumbo jumbo that isn't even internally consistent.
So yeah, Arrow, Supergirl, and Legends still have it going on over Flash.
+5
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Brainiac 8Don't call me Shirley...Registered Userregular
Oh yea, Savitar was a non-entity as far as villains go, but the episodes themselves were entertaining. The idea of it being a corrupted duplicate was interesting though.
HR though, almost made the whole season by himself. I was so sad to see him go, but what a way to go. Julien was great too. I'm sad he didn't stick around for this season.
minor incidentexpert in a dying fieldnjRegistered Userregular
HR went from "ughhhhhhh whyyyyyyy are we putting up with this shitty character" to the straight up god damn emotional core of the show over the span of 20-some odd episodes. God, what an arc.
And yeah, Julien was fantastic too, and I miss him already.
But by and large, I agree that Flash is doing the shitty stuff to the female characters that the first couple of seasons of Arrow leaned towards a lot. If I were Candice Patton, I'd be super frustrated at the way my character was being written.
I can't wait for the big crossover this year, though. I'm looking forward to that way more than the Justice League movie.
Ah, it stinks, it sucks, it's anthropologically unjust
Oh yea, Savitar was a non-entity as far as villains go, but the episodes themselves were entertaining. The idea of it being a corrupted duplicate was interesting though.
HR though, almost made the whole season by himself. I was so sad to see him go, but what a way to go. Julien was great too. I'm sad he didn't stick around for this season.
I couldn't even finish season 2 because the individual episodes were so exceedingly stupid and joyless.
So I'm going to go ahead and disagree with you on that one.
0
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minor incidentexpert in a dying fieldnjRegistered Userregular
Oh yea, Savitar was a non-entity as far as villains go, but the episodes themselves were entertaining. The idea of it being a corrupted duplicate was interesting though.
HR though, almost made the whole season by himself. I was so sad to see him go, but what a way to go. Julien was great too. I'm sad he didn't stick around for this season.
I couldn't even finish season 2 because the individual episodes were so exceedingly stupid and joyless.
So I'm going to go ahead and disagree with you on that one.
That was all season 3.
And season 3 did have plenty of redeeming bits. All the stuff with Gypsy, basically. Wells and HR interacting. HR and Jessie, etc.
Ah, it stinks, it sucks, it's anthropologically unjust
+1
Options
Brainiac 8Don't call me Shirley...Registered Userregular
Oh yea, Savitar was a non-entity as far as villains go, but the episodes themselves were entertaining. The idea of it being a corrupted duplicate was interesting though.
HR though, almost made the whole season by himself. I was so sad to see him go, but what a way to go. Julien was great too. I'm sad he didn't stick around for this season.
I couldn't even finish season 2 because the individual episodes were so exceedingly stupid and joyless.
So I'm going to go ahead and disagree with you on that one.
That's ok, you are quite allowed to disagree with me. :P
Flash was third in my arrowverse rankings. Legends and Arrow were better hands down.
I know that many here enjoyed Supergirl way more than I did last season.
Oh yea, Savitar was a non-entity as far as villains go, but the episodes themselves were entertaining. The idea of it being a corrupted duplicate was interesting though.
HR though, almost made the whole season by himself. I was so sad to see him go, but what a way to go. Julien was great too. I'm sad he didn't stick around for this season.
I couldn't even finish season 2 because the individual episodes were so exceedingly stupid and joyless.
So I'm going to go ahead and disagree with you on that one.
That's ok, you are quite allowed to disagree with me. :P
Flash was third in my arrowverse rankings. Legends and Arrow were better hands down.
I know that many here enjoyed Supergirl way more than I did last season.
Supergirl frequently has dumb individual episodes or scenes, but the overall themes' consistency are remarkable for a show with multiple writers. There is a lot of love that goes i to that production.
Oh yea, Savitar was a non-entity as far as villains go, but the episodes themselves were entertaining. The idea of it being a corrupted duplicate was interesting though.
HR though, almost made the whole season by himself. I was so sad to see him go, but what a way to go. Julien was great too. I'm sad he didn't stick around for this season.
I couldn't even finish season 2 because the individual episodes were so exceedingly stupid and joyless.
So I'm going to go ahead and disagree with you on that one.
That was all season 3.
And season 3 did have plenty of redeeming bits. All the stuff with Gypsy, basically. Wells and HR interacting. HR and Jessie, etc.
Ah you are right; that was season 3. The ending of season 2 was fucking stupid as well, though.
0
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minor incidentexpert in a dying fieldnjRegistered Userregular
Oh yea, Savitar was a non-entity as far as villains go, but the episodes themselves were entertaining. The idea of it being a corrupted duplicate was interesting though.
HR though, almost made the whole season by himself. I was so sad to see him go, but what a way to go. Julien was great too. I'm sad he didn't stick around for this season.
I couldn't even finish season 2 because the individual episodes were so exceedingly stupid and joyless.
So I'm going to go ahead and disagree with you on that one.
That's ok, you are quite allowed to disagree with me. :P
Flash was third in my arrowverse rankings. Legends and Arrow were better hands down.
I know that many here enjoyed Supergirl way more than I did last season.
Supergirl frequently has dumb individual episodes or scenes, but the overall themes' consistency are remarkable for a show with multiple writers. There is a lot of love that goes i to that production.
Oh yea, Savitar was a non-entity as far as villains go, but the episodes themselves were entertaining. The idea of it being a corrupted duplicate was interesting though.
HR though, almost made the whole season by himself. I was so sad to see him go, but what a way to go. Julien was great too. I'm sad he didn't stick around for this season.
I couldn't even finish season 2 because the individual episodes were so exceedingly stupid and joyless.
So I'm going to go ahead and disagree with you on that one.
That was all season 3.
And season 3 did have plenty of redeeming bits. All the stuff with Gypsy, basically. Wells and HR interacting. HR and Jessie, etc.
Ah you are right; that was season 3. The ending of season 2 was fucking stupid as well, though.
Yeah, I'd say season finales and resolutions have been a weak point of Flash as a whole. Honestly, Supergirl has really done a better job at being the show about optimism and hope and all the good sides of super hero-dom, which is what Flash was initially doing so well in season 1.
Ah, it stinks, it sucks, it's anthropologically unjust
+2
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minor incidentexpert in a dying fieldnjRegistered Userregular
Also, to get this back on track, regarding this week's episode of Arrow:
Diggle hiding important secrets from his teammates that will eventually blow up in his face is the single most Green Arrow thing he's ever done, so the passing of the mantle is pretty fitting.
Ah, it stinks, it sucks, it's anthropologically unjust
Also, to get this back on track, regarding this week's episode of Arrow:
Diggle hiding important secrets from his teammates that will eventually blow up in his face is the single most Green Arrow thing he's ever done, so the passing of the mantle is pretty fitting.
I briefly mentioned this in another thread, but I'm still stewing over it.
(Last week's Arrow)
The average Olympic (male) archer, the average draw weight is between 45 and 55 pounds. Oliver Queen, in the comics, uses a bow with a 100lb. draw weight. Hunting bears requires somewhere around ~75 pounds.
Felicity and Curtis gave Diggle a crossbow that fires full-sized arrows with a 260lb draw weight. For a show about archery, they fucked this one up bad. Those arrows should have embedded in the concrete, smushed the arrowheads on impact like a bullet and been damn hard to remove from the wall.
Also, to get this back on track, regarding this week's episode of Arrow:
Diggle hiding important secrets from his teammates that will eventually blow up in his face is the single most Green Arrow thing he's ever done, so the passing of the mantle is pretty fitting.
He's already starting to brood more than usual!
But has he started having flashbacks to five years ago?
That would be right about the time Oliver got back to town, right?
0
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minor incidentexpert in a dying fieldnjRegistered Userregular
Also, to get this back on track, regarding this week's episode of Arrow:
Diggle hiding important secrets from his teammates that will eventually blow up in his face is the single most Green Arrow thing he's ever done, so the passing of the mantle is pretty fitting.
He's already starting to brood more than usual!
But has he started having flashbacks to five years ago?
That would be right about the time Oliver got back to town, right?
I'd love it if all of Diggle's traumatic flashbacks are basically because of Oliver.
Ah, it stinks, it sucks, it's anthropologically unjust
+6
Options
minor incidentexpert in a dying fieldnjRegistered Userregular
I briefly mentioned this in another thread, but I'm still stewing over it.
(Last week's Arrow)
The average Olympic (male) archer, the average draw weight is between 45 and 55 pounds. Oliver Queen, in the comics, uses a bow with a 100lb. draw weight. Hunting bears requires somewhere around ~75 pounds.
Felicity and Curtis gave Diggle a crossbow that fires full-sized arrows with a 260lb draw weight. For a show about archery, they fucked this one up bad. Those arrows should have embedded in the concrete, smushed the arrowheads on impact like a bullet and been damn hard to remove from the wall.
The... uh... tennis balls... cushioned the blow.
Yeah.
Ah, it stinks, it sucks, it's anthropologically unjust
Also, to get this back on track, regarding this week's episode of Arrow:
Diggle hiding important secrets from his teammates that will eventually blow up in his face is the single most Green Arrow thing he's ever done, so the passing of the mantle is pretty fitting.
He's already starting to brood more than usual!
But has he started having flashbacks to five years ago?
That would be right about the time Oliver got back to town, right?
"I spent five years trapped in hell...being the bodyguard to a broke billionaire vigilante that shoots everyone that tries to help him in the knee. Then I realized I needed to be someone else, something else...him."
So, can we be done with evil Laurel now? Didn't the writers realize that fans were happy when they killed her off the first time? I mean evil Laurel is an improvement over the original, but still the worst. I blame Barry.
Also, to get this back on track, regarding this week's episode of Arrow:
Diggle hiding important secrets from his teammates that will eventually blow up in his face is the single most Green Arrow thing he's ever done, so the passing of the mantle is pretty fitting.
He's already starting to brood more than usual!
But has he started having flashbacks to five years ago?
That would be right about the time Oliver got back to town, right?
"I spent five years trapped in hell...being the bodyguard to a broke billionaire vigilante that shoots everyone that tries to help him in the knee. Then I realized I needed to be someone else, something else...him."
So, can we be done with evil Laurel now? Didn't the writers realize that fans were happy when they killed her off the first time? I mean evil Laurel is an improvement over the original, but still the worst. I blame Barry.
Laurel was only terrible during the first season. The story of her training and trying to fight to avenge her sister was one of the most believable arcs for someone training to be a fighter ever. She took the whole season to become decent and got her butt kicked constantly. It was quite well handled. I was actually sad when she died because I enjoyed her as Black Canary.
Evil Laurel is also awesome. Your opinion is terrible. :P
I think Laurel was worse in S2 than in the first season. And while she did get better in S3 and S4 overall, Evil Laurel is the best version of the character to date. I blame Guggenheim.
(She was always written better in places that weren't Arrow.)
Well then, this episode was a surprising step in the right direction.
I seriously did not care about Diggle's DRUGS ARE BAD plotline. Like, at all. So I'm super happy that it's all but done now, since he not only has come out to his wife and the team, most-to-all the drugs are destroyed, AND Curtis offered to fix his arm. Still want Canary to take over the team though. Even if she still has a soft spot for Vigilante.
Dragon's intro wasn't bad, and The Slade and Oliver Fun Time Hour was entertaining, if a bit overwrought.
Posts
There was a Flash Back...pack!
And I also love that Flash is so beloved that he has merchandise.
So, do you think Ollie has ever called Barry and said "Hey, do you do birthday parties?"?
You know he has.
TBH I am on the fence with watching CW shows at all at this point. But reading this thread reminded me that they're putting more of a focus on Anatoli and he is one of my favorite characters so...
I am feeling pretty fucking done with Supergirl and Flash though.
I get not wanting to suffer through Flash, but Supergirl has been quite solid.
Arrow 'verse ranking:
1) Legends of Tomorrow
2) Supergirl
3) Arrow
4) Flash
Last season of Flash would have me agreeing, but then the HR thing at the end was one of the best damn things that show has done, so it bumped it back up to third for me. And thankfully (minor flash spoilers)
Which makes him a perfect Legend.
And the fact that Legends straight up acknowledges how all of them are colossal fuckups over and over this season definitely cements it at #1.
I'm behind on the shows, though I'm able to catch clips every so often so I'm up to speed. My interest in Flash never recovered after season 2.
I think my favorite thing about Wally leaving is how right he was about nobody noticing or caring about him.
All through the episode, no matter how bad things got or how imminently looming certain doom was I never once thought to myself "Hey, where's Wally in all this? Maybe he could help.".
Haha. When he was like "did you even notice I wasn't here?" it was like he was speaking directly to me.
Also, the correct ranking is Arrow > Legends > Supergirl > Flash.
Vixen
...
...
I guess Black Lighting and Constantine, even though they aren't out yet.
...
...
Stubbing your toe.
...
...
The Flash
Supergirl lost me last season and I'm just now catching up on Netflix slowly. Melissa is great and I love the actor that plays Superman, but everything else was not blah to me.
Legends was the best last season and Arrow was second.
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I'm super hopeful for this season to be a return to form, and also something fairly different, from a villain perspective.
And the show wallows in misery. Barry can't make anything better; he can only delay the horror...unless he is becoming the horror. How many times do _we_ have to see his mom/dad die?
And finally, I'm the viewer that can suspend disbelief, but only too a point, and only in service to a greater narrative goal. It is painfully obvious thst the Flash writers didn't even have an endgame for season 3 mapped out until the halfway point or more, and even then they might as well have thrown a dart at the plot board for how much sense it made.
Arrow had a good fakeout last season. The Vigilante/Prometheus thing was clever. It used our preconceived notions against us. It didn't randomly make something up and act like it was a clever twist...it also didn't rely on a lot of time duplicate mumbo jumbo that isn't even internally consistent.
So yeah, Arrow, Supergirl, and Legends still have it going on over Flash.
HR though, almost made the whole season by himself. I was so sad to see him go, but what a way to go. Julien was great too. I'm sad he didn't stick around for this season.
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But by and large, I agree that Flash is doing the shitty stuff to the female characters that the first couple of seasons of Arrow leaned towards a lot. If I were Candice Patton, I'd be super frustrated at the way my character was being written.
I can't wait for the big crossover this year, though. I'm looking forward to that way more than the Justice League movie.
I couldn't even finish season 2 because the individual episodes were so exceedingly stupid and joyless.
So I'm going to go ahead and disagree with you on that one.
That was all season 3.
And season 3 did have plenty of redeeming bits. All the stuff with Gypsy, basically. Wells and HR interacting. HR and Jessie, etc.
That's ok, you are quite allowed to disagree with me. :P
Flash was third in my arrowverse rankings. Legends and Arrow were better hands down.
I know that many here enjoyed Supergirl way more than I did last season.
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Steam - http://steamcommunity.com/id/BRAINIAC8/
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Supergirl frequently has dumb individual episodes or scenes, but the overall themes' consistency are remarkable for a show with multiple writers. There is a lot of love that goes i to that production.
Ah you are right; that was season 3. The ending of season 2 was fucking stupid as well, though.
Yeah, I'd say season finales and resolutions have been a weak point of Flash as a whole. Honestly, Supergirl has really done a better job at being the show about optimism and hope and all the good sides of super hero-dom, which is what Flash was initially doing so well in season 1.
(Last week's Arrow)
Felicity and Curtis gave Diggle a crossbow that fires full-sized arrows with a 260lb draw weight. For a show about archery, they fucked this one up bad. Those arrows should have embedded in the concrete, smushed the arrowheads on impact like a bullet and been damn hard to remove from the wall.
But has he started having flashbacks to five years ago?
That would be right about the time Oliver got back to town, right?
I'd love it if all of Diggle's traumatic flashbacks are basically because of Oliver.
The... uh... tennis balls... cushioned the blow.
Yeah.
Nintendo Network ID - Brainiac_8
PSN - Brainiac_8
Steam - http://steamcommunity.com/id/BRAINIAC8/
Add me!
"I spent five years trapped in hell...being the bodyguard to a broke billionaire vigilante that shoots everyone that tries to help him in the knee. Then I realized I needed to be someone else, something else...him."
So, can we be done with evil Laurel now? Didn't the writers realize that fans were happy when they killed her off the first time? I mean evil Laurel is an improvement over the original, but still the worst. I blame Barry.
Laurel was only terrible during the first season. The story of her training and trying to fight to avenge her sister was one of the most believable arcs for someone training to be a fighter ever. She took the whole season to become decent and got her butt kicked constantly. It was quite well handled. I was actually sad when she died because I enjoyed her as Black Canary.
Evil Laurel is also awesome. Your opinion is terrible. :P
Nintendo Network ID - Brainiac_8
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(She was always written better in places that weren't Arrow.)
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Dragon's intro wasn't bad, and The Slade and Oliver Fun Time Hour was entertaining, if a bit overwrought.