It's not at all similar to a soccer game at a park. At a park you can see who're you playing with before you get involved, get a replacements, or have someone switch sides, or just all agree to stop playing when they leave with no lasting effect. In LoL you spend the next 20+ minutes waiting for it to end, you get a loss in your record, and if you leave too you get punished. because you refuse to teach your shitty kid common courtesy and how to plan ahead.
It's also not similar to Little League either because those are planned, organized activities.
LoL is just as important as a soccer game at a park.
Saying other people's time doesn't matter because you don't consider the activity worthwhile changes nothing.
You are still instilling in your child that it's okay to screw over 9 other people (many of whom are adults with children of their own and precious little recreation time to have wasted by your child).
Again. It's just common courtesy.
Stop raising your child to be a troll with no respect for other people or their time (regardless of how they choose to spend it).
It's important to start when the stakes are smaller like in a PUG, good manners don't appear over night.
I suspect some of you may already be trolls yourselves, so this may be a lost cause.
If your kid can't handle the commitment, or you aren't prepared to allow him to, then be the mature adult and don't let him play at all.
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DaimarA Million Feet Tall of AwesomeRegistered Userregular
You are still instilling in your child that it's okay to screw over 9 other people
I may be completely off base since it's been a very, very long time since I've played LoL, but are you really screwing 9 people or just 4? Aren't 5 people getting an easy win? Isn't it a net win for those involved?
You are still instilling in your child that it's okay to screw over 9 other people
I may be completely off base since it's been a very, very long time since I've played LoL, but are you really screwing 9 people or just 4? Aren't 5 people getting an easy win? Isn't it a net win for those involved?
It's a tossup, since it seems to me that there's a very real chance the team that had the kid bail on them will now actually perform better because they aren't forced to carry him. Not saying it's not possible for children to perform at a high level in multiplayer games, but the odds that they'll be a millstone hung around your neck are at least as great as the chances they'll hold their own, I'd say. Either way, as was already pointed out: since nobody is more likely to end up on a team that is theoretically handicapped by having a kid leave part-way through than anyone else in a PUG environment, the negative impact of come-to-dinner-Timmy disconnects on people's precious stats should be randomly spread around enough that it's not really hurting anyone in particular.
You are still instilling in your child that it's okay to screw over 9 other people
I may be completely off base since it's been a very, very long time since I've played LoL, but are you really screwing 9 people or just 4? Aren't 5 people getting an easy win? Isn't it a net win for those involved?
That's a fair question. For me, It becomes a very boring game at that point. Most people I know play for the competition, which erodes at that point. Instead of having any real fun you're just waiting until the other team surrenders. I'd rather lose a competitive game than win one because some child on the other team who wasn't taught to have any courtesy joined a queue 10 minutes before bedtime.
If it were a drop-in PUG game like TF2 where people come and go as they please, this wouldn't be an issue at all.
First of all, the open letter had its issues, but its not without its merit. If you bother to read the damn thing it explain some stuff really well and does give really good suggestions. However I do feel when it came down to what to do it was where it kinda went wrong and where people have issue with. Now the comic seem to only focus on that last part and while I get that they are trying to be funny I do feel like this is a good issue to be debated over and talked about rather than the joke it got which really put this whole discussion back a lot as people argue parenting (and my god is that a touchy subject for people)
Jerry actually discusses the entire letter in the newspost, and agrees with the part about teaching parents how LoL or some other game works, and that it involves other people. That will give the parent information that he or she will then use the way he or she sees fit. Jerry's problem is the LoL kid is telling other parents how to do their job.
Of course the comic isn't as nuanced and thorough. It's a comic strip. It takes the strongest or craziest elements and makes a joke. It's here to entertain us. The newspost is here to inform.
I actually wonder if half the people who post on the forums don't read the newspost, because this comes up a lot. People advocate for a more balanced view when that's exactly what the newspost, his real opinion and not the exaggerated joke opinion of his cartoon persona, is giving. Which baffles me because the controversial comics tend to have massive threads that would take a lot longer to sort through than the newspost.
Jerry's problem is the LoL kid is telling other parents how to do their job.
I think Jerry missed the fact that it wasn't some snotty kid or some random player.
It was actually a developer of the game who saw it as an increasing problem who wrote the post to try to increase awareness that their kid's actions are affecting real people.
Ever go to a campsite and end up near one of these families? No consideration.
They are loud and obnoxious, drunk and picking fights, parking in other people's way, leaving trash all over the place, etc.
It's like the stuff they have going on is the only thing that matters with no regard for other people.
But I guess that's okay, because it's just a recreational activity. Fuck everyone else.
This is a solvable problem, play singleplayer or drop-in games like TF2 when you might get interrupted have a looming bedtime, but no they have to do their favorite thing regardless of how it affects others. They learn at this age that it's okay to be this way.
If a developer thinks that people leaving games is a problem, then they should find ways in their game to help mitigate it, because 1) parents have every right to tell their kids to stop playing 2) parents stopping their kids from playing is hardly the only cause (or even the main cause) of players leaving the game. Maybe an AI controlled hero, maybe just allow players to leave without penalty after a while, maybe just a slight buff to the remaining heroes on the same team, idk.
It seems to me that kids leaving the game because of their parents seems like such a minor case as compared to all the other ways a player can experience a bad game, that the entire letter becomes unnecessary. Do LoL players really think that the main cause of bad game experiences, or hell even just players leaving, are parents?
If you don't think the effect your child leaving has on others matters, you don't think the GAME matters.
Just because YOU don't care about the game, doesn't mean other people don't, and once again you're missing the underlying point. What you think about the game is irrelevant to the matter i'm trying to put across. That your treating others as something you don't have to care about, especially because they or your interaction with them is 'not part of the real world' is an extremely dangerous view to have.
Would you start playing football in the park in the middle of a friendly soccer game just because you don't like soccer? Would you tell your kids to just go play in the middle of the game for the same reason? It's as someone earlier in the thread said; would you turn the TV off for a room full of people just because it's time for your child to eat? Would you turn it off for the whole room just because you don't like what's on? Because i'm pretty certain most people would consider you an asshole for doing these things. So why is it okay to do it to people online? Because you don't know them, or because you don't think you'll experience any consequences for it? Either one is a shitty lesson to give a child, and it's a lesson too many young adults and teenagers are having now and suddenly finding that their actions online can and will have consequences they never knew about.
As multiple other people have already said, if my kid was playing soccer with people in the park and it was time for the family to leave to go eat dinner or whatever, I am absolutely telling my kid it's time to leave and the other kids he was playing soccer with can deal with it. There is no difference in how the situation would be treated whether the kid is playing a game online or playing a game in "real life," so no lesson about interacting with people specifically in the context of the Internet is taught. The lesson in both cases is: family commitments and parental authority take precedence over fun and games, be they with friends or strangers.
I don't even know what you're on about with the rest of this. If by telling my kid to stop playing LoL and come do something else I somehow have the mysterious power to close LoL on the computer of everybody else in the game he was playing with and restrict them from playing it for such a duration as I capriciously see fit, then your TV comparison might be something other than ridiculous. But I don't! So it's completely ridiculous.
Actually, that's exactly what you're doing. Once a game of league is started, all the players are bound to that game until it is over. If your child is 5 minutes into a game of LoL, and you pull the plug, the other members of their team are locked into that game for 15 more minutes before they even have the option to surrender. Even if they close out the game, they won't be allowed to start another until the previous game finishes.
I could go off and play some single player game while I wait, but I am unable to play a real game of League with my friends till that timer finishes. Sure, one game shouldn't matter much to a person who's playing League for hours at a time, but not everyone has that luxury. Right now, I get maybe one or two games of league a week. Personally, I always choose to play out the game with a man down, because I'd still rather play a shitty game with friends than go off and play stuff by myself. (hell, half the reason why we play LoL is so that we can B.S. with each other on skype and catch up about what's been going on)
Having said that, I don't fully agree with the open letter either. I would do what my parents did for me. The first time I was "stuck" in a game when we were eating, they let me finish, but warned me that they'd cut me off and ban me from the computer if it happened again. It didn't happen again, but I am fully certain they would've lived up to the warning. You shouldn't jump to pulling the plug, unless your child has disregarded your warnings already, imo. (or if they're trying to "game the system" by purposely starting a game when you told them to brush their teeth and get ready for bed)
I know I'm oversimplifying but god damn does it feel like everyone who agrees with the letter doesn't have children at all.
Maybe It's just a perspective thing, but I really think that unless you have children of your own, you don't really have perspective on this. I mean I was as big a gamer as anyone in my 20s, and I don't raid in wow anymore because I have responsibilities. And if you care that much about ELO, maybe don't play around bed time? How is that for an option?
Depending on where you live, this doesn't really work. "Bed times" are hitting every hour when you live on the west coast, because of times zones. : P
You are still instilling in your child that it's okay to screw over 9 other people
I may be completely off base since it's been a very, very long time since I've played LoL, but are you really screwing 9 people or just 4? Aren't 5 people getting an easy win? Isn't it a net win for those involved?
It's a tossup, since it seems to me that there's a very real chance the team that had the kid bail on them will now actually perform better because they aren't forced to carry him. Not saying it's not possible for children to perform at a high level in multiplayer games, but the odds that they'll be a millstone hung around your neck are at least as great as the chances they'll hold their own, I'd say. Either way, as was already pointed out: since nobody is more likely to end up on a team that is theoretically handicapped by having a kid leave part-way through than anyone else in a PUG environment, the negative impact of come-to-dinner-Timmy disconnects on people's precious stats should be randomly spread around enough that it's not really hurting anyone in particular.
This implies that the only reason people are playing League is to win. Most people are playing league to have fun. I realize that there are a lot of people out there who think that fun = winning, but... they're doing it wrong.
Random tangent: That reminds me when I let my youngest cousins borrow my N64 and a copy of super smash bros. I played a couple games with them to show them how it worked, and then let them go at it. Around a week later, I noticed them playing, and saw that they had themselves and a lvl 9 computer on a team against a lone lvl 1 computer, and was completely flabbergasted. How is that fun? o.O
Ever go to a campsite and end up near one of these families? No consideration.
They are loud and obnoxious, drunk and picking fights, parking in other people's way, leaving trash all over the place, etc.
It's like the stuff they have going on is the only thing that matters with no regard for other people.
But I guess that's okay, because it's just a recreational activity. Fuck everyone else.
This is a solvable problem, play singleplayer or drop-in games like TF2 when you might get interrupted, but no they have to do their favorite thing regardless of how it affects others. They learn at this age that it's okay to be this way
Good ol' Louis. : )
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CambiataCommander ShepardThe likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered Userregular
Frankly, all the LoL players posting here who are making arguments as if they, personally, are the center of the universe? Those are the people I want to voluntarily keep themselves from playing any video games I like, ever. Maybe if you guys haven't yet learned how to have empathy for other players, then you aren't yet old enough to play online games.
"If you divide the whole world into just enemies and friends, you'll end up destroying everything" --Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind
Maybe if you guys haven't yet learned how to have empathy for other players, then you aren't yet old enough to play online games.
Yes, like not joining a game that is going to lock everyone in for 20 minutes to an hour then bailing leaving everyone else in a lurch.
Show some empathy and respect for other people and their time.
You aren't the center of the universe and there are 9 other people who are being put out because you committed to a game 5 minutes before bedtime/worktime/whatever.
If you can't do that, then yes you aren't old enough for online games.
MrNeighbor on
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CambiataCommander ShepardThe likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered Userregular
edited February 2015
nevermind
Cambiata on
"If you divide the whole world into just enemies and friends, you'll end up destroying everything" --Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind
This could have all been avoided with a simple change to the open letter:
An Open Letter to Minor LoL Players
Hey guys! It's Tryndamere here! All of us in LoL Town think it's "tight" that you're choosing League of Legends to play after school - "thumbs up", "dude"! Here are a few "awesome" tips to make sure your playtime goes "funky fresh"!
1) Games can take up to an hour to play, so let your parents or state-appointed guardian know this when you start your LoL journey. That way, when you ask, "Hey daddio, I'm about to fire up the Lol, are you hep to that?" they can make an informed decision as to whether you have enough time between chores, mealtimes, and "rapping" with your family about the day's events.
2) If you know you don't have time to commit, "Stop right now, thank you very much"! (copyright Spice Girls) You're making a commitment to nine other "dudes" (or "dudettes"), and they could get "angry" when you have to stop a game early. Because you will have to stop - obey your parents in these matters, it's not their fault you didn't heed rule one.
3) Sometimes, emergencies happen and you have to leave - that's "cool", and anybody who gives you "grief" should remember that there's real life behind them whenever they're playing LoL, and we can't all stay at our keyboards for hours on end.
OK guys, thanks for reading! If we're all "cowabunga" on these three points, your game will be much more fun! Assuming you learn to use the fucking jungle.
Maybe if you guys haven't yet learned how to have empathy for other players, then you aren't yet old enough to play online games.
Yes, like not joining a game that is going to lock everyone in for 20 minutes to an hour then bailing leaving everyone else in a lurch.
Show some empathy and respect for other people and their time.
You aren't the center of the universe and there are 9 other people who are being put out because you committed to a game 5 minutes before bedtime/worktime/whatever.
If you can't do that, then yes you aren't old enough for online games.
Congrats and welcome to children making poor decisions. This is something their parents deal with every day. If you don't want to deal with it at all then do the easy thing and stop playing casual pick up games with children.
I think parents need to be more responsible about their kids online time and shouldn't let their kids play LOL before dinner (or at all unless they're really responsible-nobody wants to play with some immature brat whose parents let the internet babysit them).
I also think people who play pug games should expect games to fall apart because that's pretty much how pug gaming goes-you play with randoms and you're going to get assholes and people bailing for whatever reason.
Yes, god forbid people be invested in hobbies while there are starving children in Africa.
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
I get the impression that the original letter is saying to parents, essentially
"if the kid abuses the privilege of playing the game by starting a game right before bedtime, let them finish the game so as not to fuck over 9 other people, and then ground them from the game for good"
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
If a developer thinks that people leaving games is a problem, then they should find ways in their game to help mitigate it
you find a way to mitigate one person leaving from a team game that takes 30-45minutes or more invested per match, and Valve, Riot, and every other developer making similar games will hire you and pay you millions of dollars because you've apparently managed to solve a fundamental problem with team games
honestly, I think the answer is for parents not to allow their children to play games that require a certain time commitment when the child doesn't have control over their own time.
But of course, that won't happen, because it seems like half of the parents in the world don't actually bother learning about their child's hobby beyond knowing what a videogame is.
Dhalphir on
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
You're not teaching your child to have no consideration for random online folk.
You are teaching your child that your family deserve more consideration than random online folk.
A lesson I fully agree with.
And that should be done by grounding them from the game when they abuse the privilege of playing it, and not by screwing over the other people by forcing them to leave and then allowing them to continue playing that game the next day, causing the same problem over and over.
Saying other people's time doesn't matter because you don't consider the activity worthwhile changes nothing.
Are you STILL arguing this imaginary point that no one's made just so that you'll look like the reasonable person here?
yes, silly neighbor, there's no such this as "subtext"
The subtext of "Parenting is more important than recreational activities" isn't "Other people's time doesn't matter".
If that's the way you feel, then perhaps you shouldn't be advocating not just putting away your legos, but knocking over whatever everyone else is building too.
It's frankly a bit narcissistic and self-centered to assume that when a kid leaves your PUG game, they or the parents did it because they don't give a shit about you.
It's not about you. It's about real life happening and kids needing to be taught to manage their time better. If I had pulled this crap of "I'll start a game right before bed and dad will just have to let me finish it out! Brilliant!" when I was a kid, you had better believe it wouldn't have worked out that way. Because kids don't "learn the value of not wasting strangers' time" by being allowed to finish out their disobedient and immature behavior. They learn that if they act in a disobedient and immature way, mom and dad will comply and allow them extra time before bed to play games.
Nope. That shit doesn't fly. There is literally nothing valuable to gain by letting a child complete a reward of extra game time for disobedient behavior that is even remotely comparable to shutting that shit down, right now because disobedience is not rewarded in my home.
If that makes you feel like I don't give a shit about your feelings then you are either 1) entirely way too sensitive about parenting decisions that do not in any way have anything to do with you personally or 2) extremely self-centered.
Your online game is not more important than my children being properly disciplined.
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
It's frankly a bit narcissistic and self-centered to assume that when a kid leaves your PUG game, they or the parents did it because they don't give a shit about you.
It's not about you. It's about real life happening and kids needing to be taught to manage their time better. If I had pulled this crap of "I'll start a game right before bed and dad will just have to let me finish it out! Brilliant!" when I was a kid, you had better believe it wouldn't have worked out that way. Because kids don't "learn the value of not wasting strangers' time" by being allowed to finish out their disobedient and immature behavior. They learn that if they act in a disobedient and immature way, mom and dad will comply and allow them extra time before bed to play games.
Nope. That shit doesn't fly. There is literally nothing valuable to gain by letting a child complete a reward of extra game time for disobedient behavior that is even remotely comparable to shutting that shit down, right now because disobedience is not rewarded in my home.
If that makes you feel like I don't give a shit about your feelings then you are either 1) entirely way too sensitive about parenting decisions that do not in any way have anything to do with you personally or 2) extremely self-centered.
Your online game is not more important than my children being properly disciplined.
You're missing the point. You're not teaching them time management by pulling them out of the game everytime it's dinner, day after day, and continuing to let them play the game.
Teaching them time management would be not allowing them to play a game like League again until they can demonstrate the time management it requires.
The attitude should be "you are going to finish that game to be fair to the people you are playing with, but after that you are not going to be playing that game for a very long time because of what you have done tonight".
Honestly though, it seems like the kind of parent who knows what League is isn't the kind of parent to evn let their child into a cesspool like that ANYWAY.
I feel like a lot of people here don't understand how parenting actually works, and the lessons kids actually learn from discipline or the lack thereof.
You know the kids squalling and screaming in the grocery store because mom didn't buy them the candy bar they wanted, and the mom finally caves and gives it to them?
That doesn't teach the kids that mom really values other people's shopping experience, and that they should too. It teaches them that when they behave poorly, they get their way.
And frankly, we could use a lot less of those kinds of parents/kids in the world.
It's frankly a bit narcissistic and self-centered to assume that when a kid leaves your PUG game, they or the parents did it because they don't give a shit about you.
It's not about you. It's about real life happening and kids needing to be taught to manage their time better. If I had pulled this crap of "I'll start a game right before bed and dad will just have to let me finish it out! Brilliant!" when I was a kid, you had better believe it wouldn't have worked out that way. Because kids don't "learn the value of not wasting strangers' time" by being allowed to finish out their disobedient and immature behavior. They learn that if they act in a disobedient and immature way, mom and dad will comply and allow them extra time before bed to play games.
Nope. That shit doesn't fly. There is literally nothing valuable to gain by letting a child complete a reward of extra game time for disobedient behavior that is even remotely comparable to shutting that shit down, right now because disobedience is not rewarded in my home.
If that makes you feel like I don't give a shit about your feelings then you are either 1) entirely way too sensitive about parenting decisions that do not in any way have anything to do with you personally or 2) extremely self-centered.
Your online game is not more important than my children being properly disciplined.
You're missing the point. You're not teaching them time management by pulling them out of the game everytime it's dinner, day after day, and continuing to let them play the game.
Teaching them time management would be not allowing them to play a game like League again until they can demonstrate the time management it requires.
The attitude should be "you are going to finish that game to be fair to the people you are playing with, but after that you are not going to be playing that game for a very long time because of what you have done tonight".
Honestly though, it seems like the kind of parent who knows what League is isn't the kind of parent to evn let their child into a cesspool like that ANYWAY.
I don't owe your LoL game shit. Sorry if that hurts your feelings.
The scenario you have described is also improper parenting. You can teach them that the reason they were pulled out of the game immediately (so as not to reward their impertinence) is because they did not manage their time properly. They are actually less likely to repeat the behavior if it did not gain them anything last time they tried it.
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited February 2015
This conversation is all moot anyway because children don't belong in games like League of Legends anyway.
Their inability to manage their own time aside, that cesspool is the opposite of child friendly.
Seriously. No child of mine will go near an internet community like that ever.
It seems to me a lot of people here would be better off directing their ire not at kids, not at parents of those kids, but at game developers who created a system where players unexpectedly disconnecting midway through the game (an irritation common to every online multiplayer game ever made) causes the maximum possible amount of aggravation to the players still in the game for no constructive purpose.
Increasingly I see MOBAs as just a genre of games for people who apparently hate themselves.
I feel like a lot of people here don't understand how parenting actually works, and the lessons kids actually learn from discipline or the lack thereof.
You know the kids squalling and screaming in the grocery store because mom didn't buy them the candy bar they wanted, and the mom finally caves and gives it to them?
That doesn't teach the kids that mom really values other people's shopping experience, and that they should too. It teaches them that when they behave poorly, they get their way.
The Open Letter is basically stating "Going to the grocery store takes about X minutes. If your kid whines during that time, I will tell you how to do your job, and here it is: give your kid the candy bar so that you stop inconveniencing us shoppers, then punish the kid once you're home!"
This conversation is all moot anyway because children don't belong in games like League of Legends anyway.
Their inability to manage their own time aside, that cesspool is the opposite of child friendly.
Ok, I can agree with this bit, at least. But that's also why the Open Letter is worthless and insulting to parents.
All of us who've played LoL or any MOBA, seriously, how often did we have to deal with feeders, trolls, assholes who just kept harassing others, random leavers?
I can guarantee that kids being pulled away from the game was the least of my inconveniences. Teenagers and early-mid-20 dudes were usually the worst, shouting obsenities as soon as someone wasn't good enough, yelling about team-killing?
What about all the grown-ass people in PC Freeplay at PAX who bitched at Enforcers because their time was up in the middle of a LoL match?
It's absolutely ridiculous to think the open letter has any reason to exist beyond TEACHING a FEW parents that LoL involves other players and takes a certain amount of time. That's fine. Anything beyond that, any teaching on HOW to use that information to raise kids is out of the letter's league.
Djiem on
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
They are actually less likely to repeat the behavior if it did not gain them anything last time they tried it.
The behaviour they are pulling isn't "trying to stay on LoL too long". The behaviour is playing LoL at all. As children, they need to learn that they should not develop a hobby with unpredictable time requirements when they don't have control of their own time.
I would be mindful of the kind of games and online communities my children are participating in, so I probably wouldn't let them play LoL at all. But honestly if I had to leave a pick up game to go do something in real life, I would do it without even thinking twice about it, and would expect my child to do the same. Sorry for raising the next generation of internet monster trolls.
Wii U NNID: TJandSam Steam: BrokenBrik
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
It seems to me a lot of people here would be better off directing their ire not at kids, not at parents of those kids, but at game developers who created a system where players unexpectedly disconnecting midway through the game (an irritation common to every online multiplayer game ever made) causes the maximum possible amount of aggravation to the players still in the game for no constructive purpose.
Increasingly I see MOBAs as just a genre of games for people who apparently hate themselves.
As an adult fully in control of my own time, these games are perfect for me. They are tons of fun. The game developers haven't done anything wrong. The fault lies with the people who don't plan their time well enough.
that's not limited to children. In fact, I would wager children are among the minority of "leavers". But children are the topic of discussion, which is why they were brought up.
Dhalphir on
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
I would be mindful of the kind of games and online communities my children are participating in, so I probably wouldn't let them play LoL at all. But honestly if I had to leave a pick up game to go do something in real life, I would do it without even thinking twice about it, and would expect my child to do the same. Sorry for raising the next generation of internet monster trolls.
But you, presumably, would not begin such a pickup game at all if you knew you had to be somewhere or do something.
Children often lack that forethought, and they shouldn't be permitted to play games that require it until they have it.
I would be mindful of the kind of games and online communities my children are participating in, so I probably wouldn't let them play LoL at all. But honestly if I had to leave a pick up game to go do something in real life, I would do it without even thinking twice about it, and would expect my child to do the same. Sorry for raising the next generation of internet monster trolls.
I never left a LoL game just because "I didn't want to play anymore so fuck those other people", but I *will* leave a pick up game if something more important comes up in "real life" (most things are more important) and yet I'm NOT an "internet monster troll", because I don't cuss other people in the game, yell at them for picking the wrong item in the store, harass women and aggregate offensive memes, etc.
Considering the toxicity of the gaming culture, and of the LoL community in general, if you really think that early leavers for IRL reasons are among the worst trolls, or even should be in there alongside those toxic people, you've got your priorities REALLY messed up.
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It's also not similar to Little League either because those are planned, organized activities.
LoL is just as important as a soccer game at a park.
You are still instilling in your child that it's okay to screw over 9 other people (many of whom are adults with children of their own and precious little recreation time to have wasted by your child).
Again. It's just common courtesy.
Stop raising your child to be a troll with no respect for other people or their time (regardless of how they choose to spend it).
It's important to start when the stakes are smaller like in a PUG, good manners don't appear over night.
I suspect some of you may already be trolls yourselves, so this may be a lost cause.
If your kid can't handle the commitment, or you aren't prepared to allow him to, then be the mature adult and don't let him play at all.
I may be completely off base since it's been a very, very long time since I've played LoL, but are you really screwing 9 people or just 4? Aren't 5 people getting an easy win? Isn't it a net win for those involved?
It's a tossup, since it seems to me that there's a very real chance the team that had the kid bail on them will now actually perform better because they aren't forced to carry him. Not saying it's not possible for children to perform at a high level in multiplayer games, but the odds that they'll be a millstone hung around your neck are at least as great as the chances they'll hold their own, I'd say. Either way, as was already pointed out: since nobody is more likely to end up on a team that is theoretically handicapped by having a kid leave part-way through than anyone else in a PUG environment, the negative impact of come-to-dinner-Timmy disconnects on people's precious stats should be randomly spread around enough that it's not really hurting anyone in particular.
That's a fair question. For me, It becomes a very boring game at that point. Most people I know play for the competition, which erodes at that point. Instead of having any real fun you're just waiting until the other team surrenders. I'd rather lose a competitive game than win one because some child on the other team who wasn't taught to have any courtesy joined a queue 10 minutes before bedtime.
If it were a drop-in PUG game like TF2 where people come and go as they please, this wouldn't be an issue at all.
I actually wonder if half the people who post on the forums don't read the newspost, because this comes up a lot. People advocate for a more balanced view when that's exactly what the newspost, his real opinion and not the exaggerated joke opinion of his cartoon persona, is giving. Which baffles me because the controversial comics tend to have massive threads that would take a lot longer to sort through than the newspost.
And in doing so, acted like a snotty kid.
They are loud and obnoxious, drunk and picking fights, parking in other people's way, leaving trash all over the place, etc.
It's like the stuff they have going on is the only thing that matters with no regard for other people.
But I guess that's okay, because it's just a recreational activity. Fuck everyone else.
This is a solvable problem, play singleplayer or drop-in games like TF2 when you might get interrupted have a looming bedtime, but no they have to do their favorite thing regardless of how it affects others. They learn at this age that it's okay to be this way.
It seems to me that kids leaving the game because of their parents seems like such a minor case as compared to all the other ways a player can experience a bad game, that the entire letter becomes unnecessary. Do LoL players really think that the main cause of bad game experiences, or hell even just players leaving, are parents?
PSN: jrrl_absent
Actually, that's exactly what you're doing. Once a game of league is started, all the players are bound to that game until it is over. If your child is 5 minutes into a game of LoL, and you pull the plug, the other members of their team are locked into that game for 15 more minutes before they even have the option to surrender. Even if they close out the game, they won't be allowed to start another until the previous game finishes.
I could go off and play some single player game while I wait, but I am unable to play a real game of League with my friends till that timer finishes. Sure, one game shouldn't matter much to a person who's playing League for hours at a time, but not everyone has that luxury. Right now, I get maybe one or two games of league a week. Personally, I always choose to play out the game with a man down, because I'd still rather play a shitty game with friends than go off and play stuff by myself. (hell, half the reason why we play LoL is so that we can B.S. with each other on skype and catch up about what's been going on)
Having said that, I don't fully agree with the open letter either. I would do what my parents did for me. The first time I was "stuck" in a game when we were eating, they let me finish, but warned me that they'd cut me off and ban me from the computer if it happened again. It didn't happen again, but I am fully certain they would've lived up to the warning. You shouldn't jump to pulling the plug, unless your child has disregarded your warnings already, imo. (or if they're trying to "game the system" by purposely starting a game when you told them to brush their teeth and get ready for bed)
Depending on where you live, this doesn't really work. "Bed times" are hitting every hour when you live on the west coast, because of times zones. : P
When you have a limited amount of time to play league with your buddies, it might as well have. : P
This implies that the only reason people are playing League is to win. Most people are playing league to have fun. I realize that there are a lot of people out there who think that fun = winning, but... they're doing it wrong.
Random tangent: That reminds me when I let my youngest cousins borrow my N64 and a copy of super smash bros. I played a couple games with them to show them how it worked, and then let them go at it. Around a week later, I noticed them playing, and saw that they had themselves and a lvl 9 computer on a team against a lone lvl 1 computer, and was completely flabbergasted. How is that fun? o.O
Good ol' Louis. : )
Yes, like not joining a game that is going to lock everyone in for 20 minutes to an hour then bailing leaving everyone else in a lurch.
Show some empathy and respect for other people and their time.
You aren't the center of the universe and there are 9 other people who are being put out because you committed to a game 5 minutes before bedtime/worktime/whatever.
If you can't do that, then yes you aren't old enough for online games.
An Open Letter to Minor LoL Players
Hey guys! It's Tryndamere here! All of us in LoL Town think it's "tight" that you're choosing League of Legends to play after school - "thumbs up", "dude"! Here are a few "awesome" tips to make sure your playtime goes "funky fresh"!
1) Games can take up to an hour to play, so let your parents or state-appointed guardian know this when you start your LoL journey. That way, when you ask, "Hey daddio, I'm about to fire up the Lol, are you hep to that?" they can make an informed decision as to whether you have enough time between chores, mealtimes, and "rapping" with your family about the day's events.
2) If you know you don't have time to commit, "Stop right now, thank you very much"! (copyright Spice Girls) You're making a commitment to nine other "dudes" (or "dudettes"), and they could get "angry" when you have to stop a game early. Because you will have to stop - obey your parents in these matters, it's not their fault you didn't heed rule one.
3) Sometimes, emergencies happen and you have to leave - that's "cool", and anybody who gives you "grief" should remember that there's real life behind them whenever they're playing LoL, and we can't all stay at our keyboards for hours on end.
OK guys, thanks for reading! If we're all "cowabunga" on these three points, your game will be much more fun! Assuming you learn to use the fucking jungle.
And hey I'll even take the 20 seconds of time it takes to do this to help you.
Bam. 18+ age requirement. You could avoid children dropping due to poor decision making and so much more just by posting the form info on the forum.
I also think people who play pug games should expect games to fall apart because that's pretty much how pug gaming goes-you play with randoms and you're going to get assholes and people bailing for whatever reason.
BTW the art in this comic is AMAAAAAAAAAAZING!
You are teaching your child that your family deserve more consideration than random online folk.
A lesson I fully agree with.
"if the kid abuses the privilege of playing the game by starting a game right before bedtime, let them finish the game so as not to fuck over 9 other people, and then ground them from the game for good"
you find a way to mitigate one person leaving from a team game that takes 30-45minutes or more invested per match, and Valve, Riot, and every other developer making similar games will hire you and pay you millions of dollars because you've apparently managed to solve a fundamental problem with team games
honestly, I think the answer is for parents not to allow their children to play games that require a certain time commitment when the child doesn't have control over their own time.
But of course, that won't happen, because it seems like half of the parents in the world don't actually bother learning about their child's hobby beyond knowing what a videogame is.
And that should be done by grounding them from the game when they abuse the privilege of playing it, and not by screwing over the other people by forcing them to leave and then allowing them to continue playing that game the next day, causing the same problem over and over.
Are you STILL arguing this imaginary point that no one's made just so that you'll look like the reasonable person here?
The subtext of "Parenting is more important than recreational activities" isn't "Other people's time doesn't matter".
It's not about you. It's about real life happening and kids needing to be taught to manage their time better. If I had pulled this crap of "I'll start a game right before bed and dad will just have to let me finish it out! Brilliant!" when I was a kid, you had better believe it wouldn't have worked out that way. Because kids don't "learn the value of not wasting strangers' time" by being allowed to finish out their disobedient and immature behavior. They learn that if they act in a disobedient and immature way, mom and dad will comply and allow them extra time before bed to play games.
Nope. That shit doesn't fly. There is literally nothing valuable to gain by letting a child complete a reward of extra game time for disobedient behavior that is even remotely comparable to shutting that shit down, right now because disobedience is not rewarded in my home.
If that makes you feel like I don't give a shit about your feelings then you are either 1) entirely way too sensitive about parenting decisions that do not in any way have anything to do with you personally or 2) extremely self-centered.
Your online game is not more important than my children being properly disciplined.
You're missing the point. You're not teaching them time management by pulling them out of the game everytime it's dinner, day after day, and continuing to let them play the game.
Teaching them time management would be not allowing them to play a game like League again until they can demonstrate the time management it requires.
The attitude should be "you are going to finish that game to be fair to the people you are playing with, but after that you are not going to be playing that game for a very long time because of what you have done tonight".
Honestly though, it seems like the kind of parent who knows what League is isn't the kind of parent to evn let their child into a cesspool like that ANYWAY.
You know the kids squalling and screaming in the grocery store because mom didn't buy them the candy bar they wanted, and the mom finally caves and gives it to them?
That doesn't teach the kids that mom really values other people's shopping experience, and that they should too. It teaches them that when they behave poorly, they get their way.
And frankly, we could use a lot less of those kinds of parents/kids in the world.
I don't owe your LoL game shit. Sorry if that hurts your feelings.
The scenario you have described is also improper parenting. You can teach them that the reason they were pulled out of the game immediately (so as not to reward their impertinence) is because they did not manage their time properly. They are actually less likely to repeat the behavior if it did not gain them anything last time they tried it.
Their inability to manage their own time aside, that cesspool is the opposite of child friendly.
Seriously. No child of mine will go near an internet community like that ever.
Increasingly I see MOBAs as just a genre of games for people who apparently hate themselves.
The Open Letter is basically stating "Going to the grocery store takes about X minutes. If your kid whines during that time, I will tell you how to do your job, and here it is: give your kid the candy bar so that you stop inconveniencing us shoppers, then punish the kid once you're home!"
Which is absolutely ridiculous!
Ok, I can agree with this bit, at least. But that's also why the Open Letter is worthless and insulting to parents.
All of us who've played LoL or any MOBA, seriously, how often did we have to deal with feeders, trolls, assholes who just kept harassing others, random leavers?
I can guarantee that kids being pulled away from the game was the least of my inconveniences. Teenagers and early-mid-20 dudes were usually the worst, shouting obsenities as soon as someone wasn't good enough, yelling about team-killing?
What about all the grown-ass people in PC Freeplay at PAX who bitched at Enforcers because their time was up in the middle of a LoL match?
It's absolutely ridiculous to think the open letter has any reason to exist beyond TEACHING a FEW parents that LoL involves other players and takes a certain amount of time. That's fine. Anything beyond that, any teaching on HOW to use that information to raise kids is out of the letter's league.
The behaviour they are pulling isn't "trying to stay on LoL too long". The behaviour is playing LoL at all. As children, they need to learn that they should not develop a hobby with unpredictable time requirements when they don't have control of their own time.
Wii U NNID: TJandSam Steam: BrokenBrik
As an adult fully in control of my own time, these games are perfect for me. They are tons of fun. The game developers haven't done anything wrong. The fault lies with the people who don't plan their time well enough.
that's not limited to children. In fact, I would wager children are among the minority of "leavers". But children are the topic of discussion, which is why they were brought up.
But you, presumably, would not begin such a pickup game at all if you knew you had to be somewhere or do something.
Children often lack that forethought, and they shouldn't be permitted to play games that require it until they have it.
I never left a LoL game just because "I didn't want to play anymore so fuck those other people", but I *will* leave a pick up game if something more important comes up in "real life" (most things are more important) and yet I'm NOT an "internet monster troll", because I don't cuss other people in the game, yell at them for picking the wrong item in the store, harass women and aggregate offensive memes, etc.
Considering the toxicity of the gaming culture, and of the LoL community in general, if you really think that early leavers for IRL reasons are among the worst trolls, or even should be in there alongside those toxic people, you've got your priorities REALLY messed up.