# [PA Comic] Wednesday, February 11, 2015 - Vis A Vis My Lawn

## Posts

• Registered User regular
So I know little to nothing about LoL.

The main beef with the kid who abandons his post is that he hands his opponents the ranked victory right?

If we take his own rank out of the equation then by definition he's handing a bonus to one more person on the other team than he's penalising on his own team. Given that the monster children are equally as likely to be on your opponents' side as yours, on balance over time these terrible match dropping kids will add more to your score than they remove!

• GT: Gasman122009 JerseyRegistered User regular
edited February 2015
So I know little to nothing about LoL.

The main beef with the kid who abandons his post is that he hands his opponents the ranked victory right?

If we take his own rank out of the equation then by definition he's handing a bonus to one more person on the other team than he's penalising on his own team. Given that the monster children are equally as likely to be on your opponents' side as yours, on balance over time these terrible match dropping kids will add more to your score than they remove!

My understanding is that the other main beef is that once you start a game, you can't start another one until 20 minutes has past. So if a kid drops out 2 minutes into a match, the other 9 people are stuck either playing an unbalanced game for 18 minutes or doing something besides LoL for that same length of time. Which sucks for those people. It just doesn't matter to me as a parent.

The one thing I've learned from this thread is what the hell the "Surrender at 20" t-shirt is referencing.

TheCanMan on
• Registered User regular
edited February 2015
TheCanMan wrote: »
So I know little to nothing about LoL.

The main beef with the kid who abandons his post is that he hands his opponents the ranked victory right?

If we take his own rank out of the equation then by definition he's handing a bonus to one more person on the other team than he's penalising on his own team. Given that the monster children are equally as likely to be on your opponents' side as yours, on balance over time these terrible match dropping kids will add more to your score than they remove!

My understanding is that the other main beef is that once you start a game, you can't start another one until 20 minutes has past. So if a kid drops out 2 minutes into a match, the other 9 people can't just drop out and find another game. Which sucks for those people. It just doesn't matter to me as a parent.

The one thing I've learned from this thread is what the hell the "Surrender at 20" t-shirt is referencing.

Yeah, that IS the issue for people, it's that you can't just go "Oh well, let's start another one then!", you gotta wait until surrendering time, which IMO should be shortened when some people leave the game.

As much as I side with the parents on this issue, as a player it IS frustrating to have someone leave and be stuck in a doomed game.

Then again, winning a 4v5 is one of the best feelings in a MOBA :biggrin:

Djiem on
• Registered User regular
Cabezone wrote: »
That is so far beyond what is being discussed you might as well be talking about the feasibility of asteroid mining.

Why isn't that a thing yet? We should be mining the hell outta some asteroids!

Would love to be mining asteroids, but my dad said I have to take out the garbage first.

• Registered User regular
edited February 2015
Holy geeze, if anything this has taught me that a disturbing amount of LoL players have zero respect for their parents and should probably be sterilized (if being a LoL player doesn't naturally keep them as virgins forever) so they don't raise another generation to be like them or worse.

Guess what kiddies, your parents paid for that computer, the internet connection, power and mortgage/rent. If Mom or Dad says it's time to stop playing, it's time to stop playing. Period. End of fucking discussion.

Also, for all you people with your panties in a bunch over the feelings of those other 9 people and their time, nobody gives a flying fuck about anyone's feelings except their own. I work in social media and interact with the general public everyday. I may as well be a leper for the way I'm treated. The absurd demands I hear because their time and problem is more important than anyone else is unrelenting. I also get to talk to LoL players from time to time and they are, in my experience, always the worst types of people. Selfish, ignorant and rude.

People naturally become assholes... and I'd bet my life that the majority of them became that way because their parent(s) didn't do their fucking job. Unless you're actually playing in a professional tournament for money that you need to pay the bills, the game doesn't matter.

Ragnar Dragonfyre on
• Registered User regular
edited February 2015
foodle wrote: »
Cabezone wrote: »
That is so far beyond what is being discussed you might as well be talking about the feasibility of asteroid mining.

Why isn't that a thing yet? We should be mining the hell outta some asteroids!

Would love to be mining asteroids, but my dad said I have to take out the garbage first.

That's it, I'm writing an open letter to the parents of the kids who are in my asteroid mining conglomerate.

• Hard to miss. Registered User regular
I assert that in LoL you're not going to get better by playing with randos who might be kids who have to go eat dinner with their families. Even if your goal is the pro scene, you need to be cultivating a team, working out synergies. If your goal is the pro scene, every inconvenience you face is an opportunity to get better. Your teammate dropped because he's 8 and it's fucking bathtime? Sucks to be you, but see if you can pull out a win anyway. If losing a player puts victory out of your reach, try an unusual build, try going counter to the meta - if you can't win, at least learn something. If you're going to pout and whine and write letters to your invisible enemies in the real world, you don't have the mindset or discipline of a champion anyway.

• In what furnace was thy brain? ChicagoRegistered User regular
edited February 2015
Here's an incredible device that can solve so many of these fights and be fair to everyone. I'm starting a Kickstarter to fund it. Here's a prototype:

MichaelLC on
• A Million Feet Tall of Awesome Registered User regular
MichaelLC wrote: »
Here's an incredible device that can solve so many of these fights and be fair to everyone. I'm starting a Kickstarter to fund it. Here's a prototype:

better make sure the Kickstarter has it locked in a tamperproof case.

• Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
I just use my iPhone timer when I give the kids a limit on games. It has the added benefit of being in my pocket and password protected so I know they can't tamper with it.

• Definitely not a banana Registered User regular
Delzhand wrote: »
Quid wrote: »
I know that it can be frustrating when someone drops from a game. But here I am years later completely unable to remember any time it actually mattered.

This is because as an adult, you have perspective. You can see "I was never going to play 10000 matches and go pro". A 16 year old doesn't have the foresight to say "This game is not what I want my life to be in 10 years."

This is funny because some popular, non-pro league streamers pull down like $4,000 a month or more. Which is probably a good deal more then their parents. Easily enough to save up a good chunk for college and such. As an adult you pretty much just went back through your life and explain away your failings because you'd probably be crushed if you didn't. As a teenager you can actually accomplish a lot of things still and you haven't yet had to explain away your failures. 'Expecting failure' isn't foresight, its just giving up. That being said I like the throwback of 'The last time I remember x'. When was the last time you remembered what you had for dinner some random 10 years ago? Almost nothing matters 10 years down the line. Even catastrophic work failures are things I don't even think or remember about 10 years ago unless I happen to stumble upon some of the old notebooks I have from then. I mean the only thing that really stands out in my mind from when I was a teenager was the one time my mom paid me$30 to go to the movies so she could have a date over. That's pretty much it for all the lessons and responsibility all that punishment as a teenager was supposed to instill.

If your kid is pulling down 4k a month then yes, as a parent, you're probably being a jerk.

However 99.9999% of kids are not pulling down 4k a month. They are pulling down nothing. Less than nothing they are subtracting from the overall household income. So they can close the game and come to dinner.

• Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
Unless you're PewDiePie's mom, make him stop please.

• Registered User regular
MichaelLC wrote: »
Here's an incredible device that can solve so many of these fights and be fair to everyone. I'm starting a Kickstarter to fund it. Here's a prototype:

haha just theme it with LoL characters, make them collectible, and you might be on to something.
I've run into plenty of adults who could use one as well (they are actually more annoying than the kids, because they should know better).

• don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
1- My nine year old is playing world of tanks. I tell him we are eating in ten minutes. Nine minutes later he starts a new game. I tell him he has to stop. He whines that he just started a match. I explain that the people who SHOULD be whining are his teammates, who he has now completely let down. How he should apologize to all of them because he was irresponsible and now has to leave them at a disadvantage and that if he wants to play online he has to keep in mind that the world (of tanks) doesn't revolve around him and that if he continues to make bad decisions that affect others he's going to lose the right to play.

I guarantee that 99% of parents who want their child to come to dinner/bed after they have just started a new game do not say anything about the other people when they tell the child off.
Another important thing is choosing your battles. If I sat down and explained to my kids why I turned Minecraft off every time I'd go Looney Tunes. Even if they're playing with friends on a server. Never once have I had a friend of theirs get upset at them or me for prematurely ending a game; they get it. If a day comes where it affects their friendship in some way, I'll go over etiquette with them, but I'll also qualify that conversation with the point that they can also just make friends to whom video games are not really worth having a big fight about

Minecraft is not comparable and I don't really get why you would think it is.

• A Million Feet Tall of Awesome Registered User regular
edited February 2015
Dhalphir wrote: »
Another important thing is choosing your battles. If I sat down and explained to my kids why I turned Minecraft off every time I'd go Looney Tunes. Even if they're playing with friends on a server. Never once have I had a friend of theirs get upset at them or me for prematurely ending a game; they get it. If a day comes where it affects their friendship in some way, I'll go over etiquette with them, but I'll also qualify that conversation with the point that they can also just make friends to whom video games are not really worth having a big fight about

Minecraft is not comparable and I don't really get why you would think it is.

One of the main point of contention from the people supporting the open letter is that it's not about the rank or the stats or anything like that, it's about the way that the child is being taught to treat online people. So since it is about respect for others it applies equally to any online interaction be it LoL or Minecraft, right?

Daimar on
• Registered User new member
This really shouldn't be an issue, anyone that cares enough about their stats to write a letter like this should be ranked high enough that they'd never encounter this situation. The great thing about a ladder is that the people who drop games (or get called to dinner) fall to the bottom. This open letter is just the newest excuse for incompetence, and it's silly that it became a news story.

• don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
edited February 2015
Daimar wrote: »
Dhalphir wrote: »
Another important thing is choosing your battles. If I sat down and explained to my kids why I turned Minecraft off every time I'd go Looney Tunes. Even if they're playing with friends on a server. Never once have I had a friend of theirs get upset at them or me for prematurely ending a game; they get it. If a day comes where it affects their friendship in some way, I'll go over etiquette with them, but I'll also qualify that conversation with the point that they can also just make friends to whom video games are not really worth having a big fight about

Minecraft is not comparable and I don't really get why you would think it is.

One of the main point of contention from the people supporting the open letter is that it's not about the rank or the stats or anything like that, it's about the way that the child is being taught to treat online people. So since it is about respect for others it applies equally to any online interaction be it LoL or Minecraft, right?

No, because leaving a game of Minecraft doesn't inconvenience or cause any problems for the other people. All that means is that maybe they have to find someone else. Leaving a ranked game of League of Legends affects the people still playing, which is why it's important to respect that.

Dhalphir on
• Definitely not a banana Registered User regular
Sure it does. I was counting on that person to hollow out a shelter while I collected wood and now they're gone. They've negatively affected my experience how dare they!

• don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
edited February 2015
It's like a comparison between a pickup game in a park vs a scheduled basketball game. If your child has to leave the pickup game, it's not that big a deal. The game itself doesn't matter, and there's every chance that because it's a casual thing they can find someone else to replace him.

If your child is playing in a scheduled basketball game, then it's more of a big deal if they leave. The other people were expecting them to stay to the end. Let's say that game was a very close one and went to quadruple overtime, pushing the finish time of the game to half an hour behind scheduled time, which is cutting into your dinner time. It's time for Timmy to come home, but it's a ranked basketball match that counts for seeding in the championship over the summer holidays. Would you go down to the court, in front of all the other players, and tell your child it was time to come home for dinner NOW regardless of whether the basketball game was still going? That would be very disrespectful to the players - they've all invested time to play the game and now a closely contested game is gone to shit.

My analogy isn't perfect, because a basketball game going into quadruple overtime is going to be a pretty rare occurrence while a ranked League of Legends game often can last much longer than you can expect or predict.

But the principle is the same. You wouldn't pull your child out of the ranked basketball match. They'd finish the match, and when they got home you'd have a serious chat about whether they think it was okay to start playing a 50min game of basketball an hour before dinner, despite knowing that it was _possible_ the game would go longer. This chat is even more important with League, because it goes longer much more often.

Dhalphir on
• Registered User regular
edited February 2015
Dhalphir wrote: »
Daimar wrote: »
Dhalphir wrote: »
Another important thing is choosing your battles. If I sat down and explained to my kids why I turned Minecraft off every time I'd go Looney Tunes. Even if they're playing with friends on a server. Never once have I had a friend of theirs get upset at them or me for prematurely ending a game; they get it. If a day comes where it affects their friendship in some way, I'll go over etiquette with them, but I'll also qualify that conversation with the point that they can also just make friends to whom video games are not really worth having a big fight about

Minecraft is not comparable and I don't really get why you would think it is.

One of the main point of contention from the people supporting the open letter is that it's not about the rank or the stats or anything like that, it's about the way that the child is being taught to treat online people. So since it is about respect for others it applies equally to any online interaction be it LoL or Minecraft, right?

No, because leaving a game of Minecraft doesn't inconvenience or cause any problems for the other people. All that means is that maybe they have to find someone else. Leaving a ranked game of League of Legends affects the people still playing, which is why it's important to respect that.

What about drop-in servers in games like Counter-Strike or whatever shooter? Until someone else joins in you'll be at a disadvantage, especially if the kid was the star player.
The part I bolded in your quote is the part that's wrong. It's not important. Whether it's Minecraft or LoL, Counter-Strike or soccer in the park, it's still just a recreation that has no bearing on anything. It's incredibly unimportant. The single ONLY difference is the inability to drop in and out in a MOBA. That doesn't make it important. It just makes it inconvenient or annoying.

EDIT: League of Legends is NOT a scheduled game. It doesn't compare to scheduled basketball, it compares to the pickup game in a park.

Djiem on
• don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
Djiem wrote: »
League of Legends is NOT a scheduled game. It doesn't compare to scheduled basketball, it compares to the pickup game in a park.

It's the ranked aspect of League that makes it comparable to scheduled basketball, not the scheduled part.

Honestly I think a lot of problems would be averted if League ranked games were scheduled in some way, just like a lot of problems would be created if ranked basketball were NOT scheduled.

• Registered User regular
edited February 2015
Dhalphir wrote: »
Djiem wrote: »
League of Legends is NOT a scheduled game. It doesn't compare to scheduled basketball, it compares to the pickup game in a park.

It's the ranked aspect of League that makes it comparable to scheduled basketball, not the scheduled part.

Honestly I think a lot of problems would be averted if League ranked games were scheduled in some way, just like a lot of problems would be created if ranked basketball were NOT scheduled.

The ranked aspect of League is wholly unimportant when compared to obeying your parents. Besides, if it mattered, you wouldn't be in a PUG.

And I would totally pull my kid away from an unscheduled game of whatever if it was time to go, even if they had a ranking of sorts.

Djiem on
• Registered User regular
Dhalphir wrote: »
1- My nine year old is playing world of tanks. I tell him we are eating in ten minutes. Nine minutes later he starts a new game. I tell him he has to stop. He whines that he just started a match. I explain that the people who SHOULD be whining are his teammates, who he has now completely let down. How he should apologize to all of them because he was irresponsible and now has to leave them at a disadvantage and that if he wants to play online he has to keep in mind that the world (of tanks) doesn't revolve around him and that if he continues to make bad decisions that affect others he's going to lose the right to play.

I guarantee that 99% of parents who want their child to come to dinner/bed after they have just started a new game do not say anything about the other people when they tell the child off.

Uh...okay.

If your stand on this is issue that more people in the world should endeavor to be like me, I'm not going to argue with you.

• A Million Feet Tall of Awesome Registered User regular
Dhalphir wrote: »
It's like a comparison between a pickup game in a park vs a scheduled basketball game. If your child has to leave the pickup game, it's not that big a deal. The game itself doesn't matter, and there's every chance that because it's a casual thing they can find someone else to replace him.

See, that comparison was made earlier in this thread, a PUG ranked game of LoL is just like a pickup game in the park, it is not equivalent to a scheduled sports game because in that case the parent is involved from the start in signing up the child, paying entry fees, transporting them there and so on. A parent that has no involvement in a park game or a LoL match has the right to pull that child out of those activities at a moment's notice, but if they want to miss a scheduled basketball game they should be calling the coach ahead of time because it will interfere with family business. I guess the equivalent to an organized basketball game in the LoL world is what...official tournaments where people need to signup and qualify far in advance so presumably there would have to be some kind of parental consent?

• Definitely not a banana Registered User regular
Dhalphir wrote: »
It's like a comparison between a pickup game in a park vs a scheduled basketball game.

No it's not. They're both pick up games. You did not plan ahead with nine other people to do this. You hit "PLAY NOW" AND You and a bunch of strangers started playing a game that does not matter at all outside of the immediate enjoyment of the game.

• Definitely not a banana Registered User regular
And the rank is meaningless outside of the actual pro circuit. Which, again, if you're playing with strangers you're not part of.

• don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
Quid wrote: »
Dhalphir wrote: »
It's like a comparison between a pickup game in a park vs a scheduled basketball game.

No it's not. They're both pick up games. You did not plan ahead with nine other people to do this. You hit "PLAY NOW" AND You and a bunch of strangers started playing a game that does not matter at all outside of the immediate enjoyment of the game.

When it's a ranked game, it does matter. It affects your win loss record and it affects the overall quality of players you play against. When you win, you move up the ranks and play better players, and enjoy the game more and more. People leaving ranked game ruins that.

I don't think anyone has any issues with anybody randomly leaving an unranked League game. It's annoying, but it's not the end of the world. It's the leaving of ranked games that is the issue, because you're not just affecting the child but also the nine other people and the impact is not limited to just that game.

• don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
Quid wrote: »
And the rank is meaningless outside of the actual pro circuit. Which, again, if you're playing with strangers you're not part of.

It's not meaningless to me. I'm proud of my rank. I learned the game, I practiced for it and I played to earn it.

Who are you to tell people what is and isn't meaningful in their lives? What kind of arrogant bullshit is that?

• Definitely not a banana Registered User regular
Dhalphir wrote: »
When it's a ranked game, it does matter. It affects your win loss record
Oh no!!!!!!!!
and it affects the overall quality of players you play against

And since you'll all be leaving negative ratings for the person that ditched mid game you don't have to worry about playing with them again anyway. The affect is none.

• don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
edited February 2015
Quid wrote: »
Dhalphir wrote: »
When it's a ranked game, it does matter. It affects your win loss record
Oh no!!!!!!!!
and it affects the overall quality of players you play against

And since you'll all be leaving negative ratings for the person that ditched mid game you don't have to worry about playing with them again anyway. The affect is none.

Fucking hell @Quid, at least the other parents in this thread seem to be saying "Yeah I know that the ranked games of League are important to the other people playing, but unfortunately my child having dinner with his family takes priority over that.". And they seem to be saying that they would teach their child to understand what it means when they are forced to leave a game of League early, and why it's disrespectful to the other players.

But you. You are essentially saying "It doesn't matter to me and so it shouldn't matter to you and HAHAHAH WHY DO YOU CARE ABOUT A HOBBY YOU FUCKING LOSER"

Dhalphir on
• Definitely not a banana Registered User regular
edited February 2015
Yes when they leave the number that has no effect on anything might be different.

If you actually cared you'd do something more than keep playing with unreliable strangers.

Also, no, I don't think you or others are losers.

Quid on
• Registered User regular
It really doesn't matter.

• don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
If I could exclude children and other people who don't control their own schedule from ranked games I would. I don't have that option.

• Definitely not a banana Registered User regular
You can! I literally linked to a clan that does just that. It took me 20 seconds to find them.

• Registered User regular
Dhalphir wrote: »
If I could exclude children and other people who don't control their own schedule from ranked games I would. I don't have that option.

Sure you do. Play with your 18+ clan only. That'll give you a better W/L ratio.

• don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
edited February 2015
So I should go out of my way to schedule games with my friends, instead of being able to play when I have free time, to avoid your child because he doesn't have any respect for anybody online and you apparently aren't interested in preventing him from playing a game like this.

Oh and I also should stop caring about my hobbies because they're not important.

But I do have to care about your family dinners. Because as a parent your opinion on what is and isn't important is automatically more valid than mine.

Did I about sum things up?

EDIT - I am not specifically referring to your actual child when I say "your child ". Your child may very well be an absolute angel who never starts games when he doesn't have time to finish, for all I know. I was using the generalizing "your".

Dhalphir on
• Definitely not a banana Registered User regular
edited February 2015
Nope. No one but you said you shouldn't care about your hobbies.

And you join a clan with dozens if not hundreds of reliable 18+ members and play with them. Easily. Your rank problem is then extremely easily solved.

But you evidently don't actually care about your rank problem because in the time you've been complaining about kids here you could have done the above.

Quid on
• don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
You cannot on the one hand make snide remarks about people caring about "numbers that don't matter ", and then on the other hand try to pretend that you never said they don't matter.

• Definitely not a banana Registered User regular
edited February 2015
Sure I can. I can appreciate that a person wants a game to go well. I can also appreciate that it's utterly immaterial if any individual game doesn't.

And, again, you could solve this right now. Easily. Yet you continue not to and instead demand children, who by definition are unreliable, cease to be children.

Quid on
• don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
Suggesting that I start playing for a team ranking rather than for a solo ranking to solve the problem of you not caring about my solo ranking doesn't really seem like a suggestion made in good faith.