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Cities: Skylines 2 Now Available

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Posts

  • MvrckMvrck Dwarven MountainhomeRegistered User regular
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    Mvrck wrote: »
    Apparently Paradox will be doing their own mod service for the game, and not offering Steam Workshop support. This is ostensibly to make sure that console players will have access to all mods. It's not clear yet whether they will be adding support for things like auto-updating mods, subscription lists, etc.

    Steam workshop is ass, but this also makes me side-eye Paradox.

    Yeah, this almost makes me regret buying it despite my utter loathing for the lack of functionality of steam workshop because I used to trust Paradox as a company but I'm increasingly thinking they've entered the enshittification phase.

    They may have, given everything else going on, but I do actually think CO is correct in this case. Bringing mod support to console players and gamepass users is the right move, and something you can't effectively with a split ecosystem.

    A couple of the mod makers have been pretty positive of the move, so there doesn't seem to be any love lost for the Steam Workshop there.

    They are still under NDAs, and obviously bias with being in early and for free, but the one modder who has beta access made a post that amounted to "its fine".

    Another thing to keep in mind - a lot of these streamers and content creators are hitting these performance numbers while recording/live without top of the line machines.

    I'm not gonna sit here and say performance is great - cause it's definitely not, but it wouldn't surprise me if that played into perception some. Content creators in general are notoriously illiterate with proper settings for streaming/recording, and even if you do set it up right it can be a big hit to things.

    I would regularly lose 10 fps in CS1 on mature cities just running Nvidia broadcast and using nvenc encoding while streaming. I haven't been lucky enough to touch 2 but similar results wouldn't surprise me.

    If you're not planning on doing that, you might have a bit more headroom than some of what youre seeing. Even doing a dual PC system like LPP has is gonna eat some resources exporting that second video feed.

  • taliosfalcontaliosfalcon Registered User regular
    Mvrck wrote: »
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    Mvrck wrote: »
    Apparently Paradox will be doing their own mod service for the game, and not offering Steam Workshop support. This is ostensibly to make sure that console players will have access to all mods. It's not clear yet whether they will be adding support for things like auto-updating mods, subscription lists, etc.

    Steam workshop is ass, but this also makes me side-eye Paradox.

    Yeah, this almost makes me regret buying it despite my utter loathing for the lack of functionality of steam workshop because I used to trust Paradox as a company but I'm increasingly thinking they've entered the enshittification phase.

    They may have, given everything else going on, but I do actually think CO is correct in this case. Bringing mod support to console players and gamepass users is the right move, and something you can't effectively with a split ecosystem.

    A couple of the mod makers have been pretty positive of the move, so there doesn't seem to be any love lost for the Steam Workshop there.

    They are still under NDAs, and obviously bias with being in early and for free, but the one modder who has beta access made a post that amounted to "its fine".

    Another thing to keep in mind - a lot of these streamers and content creators are hitting these performance numbers while recording/live without top of the line machines.

    I'm not gonna sit here and say performance is great - cause it's definitely not, but it wouldn't surprise me if that played into perception some. Content creators in general are notoriously illiterate with proper settings for streaming/recording, and even if you do set it up right it can be a big hit to things
    .

    I would regularly lose 10 fps in CS1 on mature cities just running Nvidia broadcast and using nvenc encoding while streaming. I haven't been lucky enough to touch 2 but similar results wouldn't surprise me.

    If you're not planning on doing that, you might have a bit more headroom than some of what youre seeing. Even doing a dual PC system like LPP has is gonna eat some resources exporting that second video feed.
    If it was just content creators I'd agree with you, but there's a site pcgameshardware.de that does pretty good benchmark reviews and they posted some of their benchmarks...

    A 5600x with a 4090 averaged.. 24 fps on high 1080p which is ouch

    steam xbox - adeptpenguin
  • syndalissyndalis Getting Classy On the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Products regular
    5600x is the problem there, almost certainly.

    We are moving in a direction where buying a CPU with 6 cores is going to be limiting. Consoles have 8 now and have had 8 for a few years.

    SW-4158-3990-6116
    Let's play Mario Kart or something...
    Phoenix-D
  • taliosfalcontaliosfalcon Registered User regular
    edited October 2023
    syndalis wrote: »
    5600x is the problem there, almost certainly.

    We are moving in a direction where buying a CPU with 6 cores is going to be limiting. Consoles have 8 now and have had 8 for a few years.

    Just reread the benchmarks and they tried an i9-11900K as well with essentially the same results. It sounds like it didn't even max out the 5600x though and did max out the 4090.

    They also tried a 3080 with the i9 and that managed 24 fps on medium 1080p with a few settings dropped down from medium

    taliosfalcon on
    steam xbox - adeptpenguin
  • syndalissyndalis Getting Classy On the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Products regular
    syndalis wrote: »
    5600x is the problem there, almost certainly.

    We are moving in a direction where buying a CPU with 6 cores is going to be limiting. Consoles have 8 now and have had 8 for a few years.

    Just reread the benchmarks and they tried an i9-11900K as well with essentially the same results. It sounds like it didn't even max out the 5600x though and did max out the 4090

    lol.

    Ok, so this is going to get patched/optimized. Day one is going to be a bumpy ride, but this is the kind of game that you can play for years, so I can wait a month or so for them to tidy things up a bit.

    SW-4158-3990-6116
    Let's play Mario Kart or something...
  • MvrckMvrck Dwarven MountainhomeRegistered User regular
    Mvrck wrote: »
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    Mvrck wrote: »
    Apparently Paradox will be doing their own mod service for the game, and not offering Steam Workshop support. This is ostensibly to make sure that console players will have access to all mods. It's not clear yet whether they will be adding support for things like auto-updating mods, subscription lists, etc.

    Steam workshop is ass, but this also makes me side-eye Paradox.

    Yeah, this almost makes me regret buying it despite my utter loathing for the lack of functionality of steam workshop because I used to trust Paradox as a company but I'm increasingly thinking they've entered the enshittification phase.

    They may have, given everything else going on, but I do actually think CO is correct in this case. Bringing mod support to console players and gamepass users is the right move, and something you can't effectively with a split ecosystem.

    A couple of the mod makers have been pretty positive of the move, so there doesn't seem to be any love lost for the Steam Workshop there.

    They are still under NDAs, and obviously bias with being in early and for free, but the one modder who has beta access made a post that amounted to "its fine".

    Another thing to keep in mind - a lot of these streamers and content creators are hitting these performance numbers while recording/live without top of the line machines.

    I'm not gonna sit here and say performance is great - cause it's definitely not, but it wouldn't surprise me if that played into perception some. Content creators in general are notoriously illiterate with proper settings for streaming/recording, and even if you do set it up right it can be a big hit to things
    .

    I would regularly lose 10 fps in CS1 on mature cities just running Nvidia broadcast and using nvenc encoding while streaming. I haven't been lucky enough to touch 2 but similar results wouldn't surprise me.

    If you're not planning on doing that, you might have a bit more headroom than some of what youre seeing. Even doing a dual PC system like LPP has is gonna eat some resources exporting that second video feed.
    If it was just content creators I'd agree with you, but there's a site pcgameshardware.de that does pretty good benchmark reviews and they posted some of their benchmarks...

    A 5600x with a 4090 averaged.. 24 fps on high 1080p which is ouch

    Something is very off there. CPP had his game at 4k for parts of his stream last night and was at 50fps on a 4090 with everything on high.

  • taliosfalcontaliosfalcon Registered User regular
    edited October 2023
    Mvrck wrote: »
    Mvrck wrote: »
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    Mvrck wrote: »
    Apparently Paradox will be doing their own mod service for the game, and not offering Steam Workshop support. This is ostensibly to make sure that console players will have access to all mods. It's not clear yet whether they will be adding support for things like auto-updating mods, subscription lists, etc.

    Steam workshop is ass, but this also makes me side-eye Paradox.

    Yeah, this almost makes me regret buying it despite my utter loathing for the lack of functionality of steam workshop because I used to trust Paradox as a company but I'm increasingly thinking they've entered the enshittification phase.

    They may have, given everything else going on, but I do actually think CO is correct in this case. Bringing mod support to console players and gamepass users is the right move, and something you can't effectively with a split ecosystem.

    A couple of the mod makers have been pretty positive of the move, so there doesn't seem to be any love lost for the Steam Workshop there.

    They are still under NDAs, and obviously bias with being in early and for free, but the one modder who has beta access made a post that amounted to "its fine".

    Another thing to keep in mind - a lot of these streamers and content creators are hitting these performance numbers while recording/live without top of the line machines.

    I'm not gonna sit here and say performance is great - cause it's definitely not, but it wouldn't surprise me if that played into perception some. Content creators in general are notoriously illiterate with proper settings for streaming/recording, and even if you do set it up right it can be a big hit to things
    .

    I would regularly lose 10 fps in CS1 on mature cities just running Nvidia broadcast and using nvenc encoding while streaming. I haven't been lucky enough to touch 2 but similar results wouldn't surprise me.

    If you're not planning on doing that, you might have a bit more headroom than some of what youre seeing. Even doing a dual PC system like LPP has is gonna eat some resources exporting that second video feed.
    If it was just content creators I'd agree with you, but there's a site pcgameshardware.de that does pretty good benchmark reviews and they posted some of their benchmarks...

    A 5600x with a 4090 averaged.. 24 fps on high 1080p which is ouch

    Something is very off there. CPP had his game at 4k for parts of his stream last night and was at 50fps on a 4090 with everything on high.

    I haven't watched any streams so I don't know if this is the case/explains it but they do mention it's the frequent drops/stutters that drops the averages a bunch. Ie they specifically call out that 3080 24 fps medium average I mentioned and said it did frequently go above 50 fps, but that was more than countered by frequent drops to 5 or less. City size also seems to be a pretty big impact as multiple sources are saying performance absolutely nosedives as soon as you pass 50k pop

    I actually found the pcgamer review very odd in this respect as they have I a positive review but..the reviewer stated they never played a city past 45k pop because their performance dropped too much (on a 4070 IIRC)

    taliosfalcon on
    steam xbox - adeptpenguin
  • Knight_Knight_ Dead Dead Dead Registered User regular
    i think i'll just continue to rely on cs1 for my city builder needs.

    cs2 might be good in 3 years, but this stuff is honestly just unacceptable, plus the sheer number of features they cut out, idk

    aeNqQM9.jpg
  • That_GuyThat_Guy I don't wanna be that guy Registered User regular
    I have a 13900K and a 4090. If 50FPS is the best I can hope for at 4k, I'm gonna be disappointed. CS2 doesn't even have the especially taxing visual tech like ray tracing, There's no good reason for performance this poor.

  • MvrckMvrck Dwarven MountainhomeRegistered User regular
    edited October 2023
    That_Guy wrote: »
    I have a 13900K and a 4090. If 50FPS is the best I can hope for at 4k, I'm gonna be disappointed. CS2 doesn't even have the especially taxing visual tech like ray tracing, There's no good reason for performance this poor.

    There is global illumination implemented. It appeared to have different levels in the advanced settings, so that's not 100% accurate. And one of the reasons I'm hesitant to trust a lot of these claims because that could be a huge performance hit without it turned down or off.

    The question though, is of course, how bad does it look without it on. Are you getting frames at the cost of everything looking like complete unshaded blocks at that point?

    Edit: Either way for the non game-pass folks, I'll post my numbers on Tuesday. I've got a 3900x and a 2080ti, so I'll get a good read of how much is raw GPU power vs VRAM (I've got 11 gigs).

    Mvrck on
  • MonwynMonwyn Apathy's a tragedy, and boredom is a crime. A little bit of everything, all of the time.Registered User regular
    Mvrck wrote: »
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    Mvrck wrote: »
    Apparently Paradox will be doing their own mod service for the game, and not offering Steam Workshop support. This is ostensibly to make sure that console players will have access to all mods. It's not clear yet whether they will be adding support for things like auto-updating mods, subscription lists, etc.

    Steam workshop is ass, but this also makes me side-eye Paradox.

    Yeah, this almost makes me regret buying it despite my utter loathing for the lack of functionality of steam workshop because I used to trust Paradox as a company but I'm increasingly thinking they've entered the enshittification phase.

    They may have, given everything else going on, but I do actually think CO is correct in this case. Bringing mod support to console players and gamepass users is the right move, and something you can't effectively with a split ecosystem.

    A couple of the mod makers have been pretty positive of the move, so there doesn't seem to be any love lost for the Steam Workshop there.

    They are still under NDAs, and obviously bias with being in early and for free, but the one modder who has beta access made a post that amounted to "its fine".

    Another thing to keep in mind - a lot of these streamers and content creators are hitting these performance numbers while recording/live without top of the line machines.

    I'm not gonna sit here and say performance is great - cause it's definitely not, but it wouldn't surprise me if that played into perception some. Content creators in general are notoriously illiterate with proper settings for streaming/recording, and even if you do set it up right it can be a big hit to things.

    I would regularly lose 10 fps in CS1 on mature cities just running Nvidia broadcast and using nvenc encoding while streaming. I haven't been lucky enough to touch 2 but similar results wouldn't surprise me.

    If you're not planning on doing that, you might have a bit more headroom than some of what youre seeing. Even doing a dual PC system like LPP has is gonna eat some resources exporting that second video feed.

    Current footage also isn't running whatever custom driver Nvidia will inevitably drop within a week of release.

    uH3IcEi.png
  • Space PickleSpace Pickle Registered User regular
    All I have to say is maybe they'll slash the prices on the CS1 expansions and my patience will have paid off!

  • InfamyDeferredInfamyDeferred Registered User regular
    New performance patch - here's a performance test on a variety of hardware: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JIUokAXWOvHYsVZzJv7Skju5oKgm0-r4/htmlview?pli=1#gid=1737240722

    Maybe I don't have to say goodbye to the preorder bonus after all (3060ti + 16gb RAM)

  • -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    I think I'll still wait a bit. The closest he benchmarked to my PC is a 5800X3D, 64GB RAM and a 6800XT (I have a non-3D 5800X and 32GB RAM). He tested at 1080p, and I'll be playing at 3440x1440.

    56fps on low and 32fps on high is not very impressive for 1080p.

  • MvrckMvrck Dwarven MountainhomeRegistered User regular
    edited October 2023
    Lost in some of the performance discussion (online in general, not here), CO put out more info on their mod service (which apparently is already up and in use for other Paradox games so shame on me for not knowing that).

    But auto updates and subscribing are a thing, as well as auto-installing dependencies via prompt. Mod browsing/subscribing can be done in game as well as via website.

    But the coolest thing and an advantage over Steam (at least I don't know of how to do this functionality with the Workshop) - you can filter mods into different playlists to turn on and off.

    So say you have your base mods (whatever the new versions of Node Controller, Move It, TMPE etc are) in one play list, and always have that active, but also have other playlists, say one for specific themes of assets, one for assets you're just testing out, one for only transportation assets, etc and toggle them based off what you're going for in a specific city or playthrough.

    You can have up to 50 of these playlists, which I'm sure SOMEONE will consider too low, but that seems like a decent cap.

    Mvrck on
    InfamyDeferred
  • That_GuyThat_Guy I don't wanna be that guy Registered User regular
    https://www.gamesradar.com/cities-skylines-2-review/

    They're saying "Its promise is completely overshadowed by its technical problems."

  • MvrckMvrck Dwarven MountainhomeRegistered User regular
    What should be the final full preload is up for Game Pass. I was dumb and didn't make a mental note of the actual size before I clicked to install, but I *think* it said 64gb? Definitely a huge step up over the original.

  • AkimboEGAkimboEG Mr. Fancypants Wears very fine pants indeedRegistered User regular
    By all accounts, they seem to have made some very impressive technological improvements in CS2 compared to the previous game. Better road tools, improved load times, and a much larger scale are all significant.

    I personally don't really buy games on release, but I really doubt there's any reason to worry. I fully expect any major issues to be resolved in the next year.

    Give me a kiss to build a dream on; And my imagination will thrive upon that kiss; Sweetheart, I ask no more than this; A kiss to build a dream on
  • JasconiusJasconius sword criminal mad onlineRegistered User regular
    every cs2 review ive read is "this game is great, 6/10"

  • Knight_Knight_ Dead Dead Dead Registered User regular
    Jasconius wrote: »
    every cs2 review ive read is "this game is great, 6/10"

    partially the eternal issue of any sequel to a game with a huge amount of post-release content, and partially absolutely dogshit performance

    aeNqQM9.jpg
    Jazz
  • taliosfalcontaliosfalcon Registered User regular
    It is surprising/heartening how positive the reviews are in spite of the technical issues at least. Sounds like a great game underneath when they iron them out.

    steam xbox - adeptpenguin
    Jazz
  • MonwynMonwyn Apathy's a tragedy, and boredom is a crime. A little bit of everything, all of the time.Registered User regular
    Every video I've watched from CS1 people that were in the beta has said "performance still isn't where it needs to be but it's improved every single update" which is at least promising.

    Frankly most games seem to launch with performance issues these days that are ironed out over the following month. I'm old enough to be grumpy about that, but also old enough to remember when games with performance issues just had them forever, so it's hard to be too upset.

    uH3IcEi.png
    davidsdurionsBrody
  • MvrckMvrck Dwarven MountainhomeRegistered User regular
    CO did an AMA on the original CS Reddit just a bit ago. Apparently I can't link clean urls on mobile so apologies for not I including it.

    But biggest things out of it I saw performance wise are they have another patch included for launch tomorrow already, have focused on reducing VRAM usage, are focusing on reducing tri rendering where they are able, and have plans for newer versions of DLSS and FSR (FSR 1 is currently implemented but ain't great), but they have to rebuild "some" assets to support TSAA to get those working.

    Quotes on some are mine, but I'd assume more than not if it's not something they hit at launch.

    Bikes are on the road map but they couldnt/wouldn't share details about unannounced features. Ditto with expanded themes/regions for building styles. Specifically asked people to share what they'd like most, but wouldn't talk about what they had planned. Similarly wouldn't talk about things that got cut.

    Which I don't blame them for one bit since any sound bites off that would be blasted on every gaming site headline for the next three weeks.

    "Can you belive they cut the ability for car turn signals to flash at night?! What are they even DOING"

    Also confirmed that COs entire staff is still around 30 people.

  • Knight_Knight_ Dead Dead Dead Registered User regular
    personally sure it's impressive that 30 people made this game but that doesn't really effect my calculus in any way.

    idk i won't be shocked if in 2 years cs2 is way better than cs1 and a lot of the performance issues and missing content is fixed. but i do think it might take 2 years.

    aeNqQM9.jpg
  • JasconiusJasconius sword criminal mad onlineRegistered User regular
    if they are talented engineers on a custom engine then anything is possible

    its easy to say "only 30???" but a lot of great games have fewer than a dozen programmers, also this is a game that is basically a glorified expansion pack

    its quite obviously CS1 with some stuff bolted on

    i say all this with enthusiasm. i think cs2 will be fine

  • SiliconStewSiliconStew Registered User regular
    That_Guy wrote: »
    https://www.gamesradar.com/cities-skylines-2-review/

    They're saying "Its promise is completely overshadowed by its technical problems."

    The more context-accurate quote from that review would be:

    "Honestly, I hope this review is totally outdated in a year's time, because the foundations of what might just be the greatest city-building game ever created are here. But for now, the game's technical shortcomings completely overshadow that promise."

    It'd be a bigger problem if the performance was fine but the game design sucked. Performance at least has a chance to be fixed.

    Just remember that half the people you meet are below average intelligence.
    MvrckJazz
  • Stabbity StyleStabbity Style He/Him | Warning: Mothership Reporting Kennewick, WARegistered User regular
    Welp, preloaded. Kinda put a damper on my enthusiasm for the game, but what can you do. I'll probably give it a look this weekend if I have some time. Spider-man 2's my priority over it at the moment, though.

    Stabbity_Style.png
  • Space PickleSpace Pickle Registered User regular
    That_Guy wrote: »
    https://www.gamesradar.com/cities-skylines-2-review/

    They're saying "Its promise is completely overshadowed by its technical problems."

    The more context-accurate quote from that review would be:

    "Honestly, I hope this review is totally outdated in a year's time, because the foundations of what might just be the greatest city-building game ever created are here. But for now, the game's technical shortcomings completely overshadow that promise."

    It'd be a bigger problem if the performance was fine but the game design sucked. Performance at least has a chance to be fixed.

    I don't even have a computer that can run CS1 right now, but I wonder if CS2 will be the game that finally allows us to realize the Simcity 2000 box art. :)

  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    You could pretty much do that in CS1? Just had to download some simcity 2000 style buildings and a mod to covert helicopters to UFOs.

  • Atlas in ChainsAtlas in Chains Registered User regular
    Is 2 going to be another $50 a year in dlc like the original? I really hate that monetization strategy.

  • SkeithSkeith Registered User regular
    Is 2 going to be another $50 a year in dlc like the original? I really hate that monetization strategy.

    You can safely assume that about any Paradox title.

    aTBDrQE.jpg
    StrikorStabbity StyleCampyFiatilBrody
  • That_GuyThat_Guy I don't wanna be that guy Registered User regular
    Gameranx is saying there's a great game here but technical issues really hold it back. Sounds like CS2 needed another 6 months in the oven.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAIUE84UmxI

  • DaimarDaimar A Million Feet Tall of Awesome Registered User regular
    I'm disappointed, this was going to be a day 1 purchase, but while I'm still above minimum specs I am below recommended so I'm going to wait until they improve the performance or I upgrade.

    steam_sig.png
  • -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    I mean, I'm on the recommended specs, and according to the benchmarks done the best I can hope for is like 30fps at 1080p.

    Those system requirements are pretty meaningless.

  • DixonDixon Screwed...possibly doomed CanadaRegistered User regular
    I'll be interested to see how it plays tomorrow. I'm on a 5800x3d and 4090 but will be on the 4k tv playing.

    I'm hoping for 30fps...curious if folks will be able to hack in DLSS

  • MvrckMvrck Dwarven MountainhomeRegistered User regular
    Dixon wrote: »
    I'll be interested to see how it plays tomorrow. I'm on a 5800x3d and 4090 but will be on the 4k tv playing.

    I'm hoping for 30fps...curious if folks will be able to hack in DLSS


    I think the best we can hope for is once the editor is released some mods to kill tri size and tweak LOD stuff (that will likely come at the cost of stability).

    If there's not TAA available, DLSS is basically dead in the water. I'm still really curious what gains can be made/how the game looks with GI off, since CPP didn't really touch on that at all in his video.

  • taliosfalcontaliosfalcon Registered User regular
    edited October 2023
    apparently a german gaming magazine has put up a release compatible save for download w/ a 100k city if anyone else is going to be instantly curious to see what 100k pop will do to their poor computers later today.

    https://download.gamestar.de/public/files/savegames/100k_Einwohner.zip

    I will report on how badly it brings my 5800x3d and 7800xt to their knees shortly after launch

    edit: ok so it auto detected my settings as high at 1440p , I just rolled with it to see, on a newly created 0 pop city i'm getting around 40 with random stutters to pretty low. Loaded up the 100k city and I was getting 15-20ish. Lowering it to medium raised me to the low 30's, but still with frequent random stutters. It seems, not great but playable. Even on high it is not a good looking game though

    taliosfalcon on
    steam xbox - adeptpenguin
  • DixonDixon Screwed...possibly doomed CanadaRegistered User regular
    Mannnnn 22fps with a 5800x3D and 4090 combo at 4k on Cities: Skyline 2

    Hovering around 96-98% gpu usage and 30%$ cpu usage.

    This is with no city built, I've just loaded a map and sitting looking at the land. Even the main menu was sluggish.

  • MvrckMvrck Dwarven MountainhomeRegistered User regular
    What is your global illuminations set to, and do you have Vsync disabled?

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