Options

Anti-theist murders three Muslim students in North Carolina

167891012»

Posts

  • Options
    override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    edited March 2015
    Wait there's an atheist community?

    Is there a local chapter? Can I go to atheist church? What are our tenants?

    I'm sorry to be so flippant but the term atheist community really needs to be defined before it can be argued in any way shape or form

    override367 on
  • Options
    ThirithThirith Registered User regular
    Shades of the discussion of "Is there such a thing as a gamer?"...

    webp-net-resizeimage.jpg
    "Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
  • Options
    redxredx I(x)=2(x)+1 whole numbersRegistered User regular
    edited March 2015
    We probably not need a separate thread for the no true atheist problem.


    So, because it is murky and the posters here are unwilling to accept the premises or possibility of being tarred with the same feather.

    And because it has been a month or several for evidence of actual things the guy has done and joined and bought and slapped ridiculous smug bumper stickers up about.

    Do we know if this crazy biggoted shitheel was affiliated with any particular groups or modes of athiests thought?

    Thus nicely circumventing the terribly exciting and productive, and amazingly echoey for a group that doesn't exit coherently, argument about a greater athiests culture by talking about a nice specific one(s)?


    TLDR: Do we know what the schmuck had on his bookshelf?

    redx on
    They moistly come out at night, moistly.
  • Options
    Rhan9Rhan9 Registered User regular
    You may have just broken my snark-o-meter.

  • Options
    override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    edited March 2015
    _J_ wrote: »
    Qingu wrote: »
    Whenever a bad thing happens where a bad actor invokes or otherwise interacts with an ideology, it seems like there is always this divide between people who say "maybe we should take a closer look at the ideology" and people who say "let's not judge the whole ideology by a bad actor."

    The interesting part of this discussion, for me, was the idea of judging atheism by the acts of one self-described atheist. This had not occurred to me before, as atheism is not often given as a motivation for action.

    We can dismiss those who justify the blame by the bias of fairness: "Atheists get to yell at Christians when a Christian does X, so Christians get to yell at Atheists when an Atheist does X." That is a silly argument that completely ignores the motivation for criticism.

    When a Christian or Muslim kills someone, we can link the action of the individual to the religion by reading the book in which the individual places faith. We ask whether or not anything in the book could justify the person's act. Often, it is not difficult to link "kill people" with some of the messages communicated in those books. For every Sermon on the Mount, we find a few Sodoms and Gomorrahs.

    The rub here is that atheism, if we want to -ism that belief, has no official book or set of moral norms. There is no faith structure. Instead, atheism has a reason structure. There is some intellectual process the conclusion of which is "therefore, there is no reason to believe in this god-thing."

    I wonder if there is anything in the atheist's intellectual process that contains the same flaw as the religious texts. Does the rational process that excludes a deity from one's ontology beget an impetus to kill religious folks? If so, what is it?

    @Arch was correct when he noted that "there is no god" is not maintained in a vacuum. That thought / belief informs other actions. At the very least, it helps to justify sleeping late on Sundays. Presumably, it informs other acts, and other thoughts / beliefs. If an atheist has a set of ethical and moral norms, the lack of a God informs those norms.

    I wish we could have that discussion without people dismissing it, or getting quite pissy about it. Mostly because I do not know the answers to those questions.

    When Sam Harris articulates this very clearly and with extreme detail people still immediately misquote him to his face about the thing he just said, so it's not a point I expect to stick

    But a criticism of one's actions based upon their religion is possible when they are undertaking the action not because they're mentally ill or because they have a personal incentive to do so, but they are doing it because they legitimately believe that their action is moral and just and the will of their god through a legitimate, non insane interpretation of their holy text

    For example, we can't blame the holocaust on Christianity because Hitler was a Christian (or some version thereof). Just because he talks about Jesus and providence in his speeches doesn't mean what he did has anything to do with Christianity or the bible, the bible doesn't command people to exterminate jews or conquer non believers and it's pretty goddamn explicit about idolatry and deification of a person.

    Sure not believing in god has an effect on someone, Does it turn people into violent psychopaths bent on exterminating religion? I would say no, and in fact the evidence would point in the opposite direction, atheists are less likely to commit crimes. I would argue that too is not causal though, atheists tend to be middle/upper class, people outside of poverty tend to commit less crimes, etc

    override367 on
  • Options
    QinguQingu Registered User regular
    Wait there's an atheist community?

    Is there a local chapter? Can I go to atheist church? What are our tenants?

    I'm sorry to be so flippant but the term atheist community really needs to be defined before it can be argued in any way shape or form

    Sure there is, and arguing about the semantics of epistemology is the "there is no god but Allah and Muhammad is his prophet" of atheism.

    It's true that atheism is basically an empty set when it comes to motivating actions. But atheists say things and form communities and the rhetoric used by popular atheists, particularly when discussing Muslims, is worth examining, and probably should be toned down in light of the wider climate of anti-Muslim bigotry in the West.

  • Options
    Rhan9Rhan9 Registered User regular
    Without some further qualifiers, discussing the problems that the atheist community has with sexism or islamiphobia is about equivalent with discussing the problems that the coffee drinking community has with them. Too vague to be of any use.

    Now, something like the New Atheism proponents, Dawkins fanboys, or other more cohesive groups like that could provide actual material for discussion. I'll need some time to read up on them though, as they're not exactly a phenomenon I'm terribly familiar with.

Sign In or Register to comment.