Also, once Tamriel Rebuilt adds in the lands of Great Houses Dres and Indoril I'm going to do a playthrough of each of those and see how I like them. They sound rad
You know what happens when you time gate eating parts of an ice cream cone? I was excited for the wow expansion played it for a month and quit. Never even tried ESO since it got terribad reviews.
Recently I started a skyrim character and did my normal wreck everything in the area around where you start for a couple hours and never play the character again. Does anyone else do that from time to time? When I think about leveling enchanting/alchemy/smithing or pickpocketing/speech I'm always just like nah I'm good. The inner min/maxer in me wants to max out everything so I can destroy everything, but my brain is like dude you can destroy everything at like 10% of all that work.
Also there is usually a point if I play a character long enough that I am just strong enough to say screw it and kill entire towns because I don't care anymore, then I don't play that character anymore...
This happens to me quite often, and sometimes I save the game and continue on.
Like, I've never holed up in Solitude and made that a base of operations, or done any of the quests. Why? Because my bounty there is always atrociously high. I came to town once, and they beheaded a guy for opening a door? Fuck these people. Fus Roh Dah all these motherfuckers.
I then also come back to Solitude every now and then after I have the Odaviing shout, because he hates them fuckers too. I know he does because I shouted his name and politely asked him to hate them with me.
EDIT: I commonly play a Good Guy, but one who's willing to slip firmly into Bad Guy territory when an entire society is fucking up.
Solitude executed a gate guard who opened the gate to allow the guy who just murdered the king escape.
I can assure you that if something analogous happened in a modern military they'd shoot you. There would be a court marshal, but yes, you'd be shot.
"murdered the king" is where I take issue. If he was challenged to high combat, accepted the challenge, and died, and if that is, in fact, a Skyrim tradition, then I can get behind that, in an Elder Scrolls universe. Don't get me wrong, despite my hatred of the beheading with no trial whatsoever, I'm a big Imperial sympathizer, because the Nords are such racist fuckwits (Stormcloak included), and it's pretty obvious that Tullius is trying to unify the realm so they can kill Thalmor again. And I'm down for that. But Skyrim should be able to operate by Skyrim's laws. If the challenge was not something to adhere to, then the king shouldn't have adhered to it.
So a gate guard that lets a guy out because he believes something happened within the law occurred, and the Imperials (who won't give any shits about that) are going to kill said guy? I say he at least gets his day in court.
I think this is a not-uncommon occurrence: Culture A has a certain set of traditions and laws, then some other Culture B rolls in and either subjugates Culture A by force, or else Culture A willingly becomes a subordinate of Culture B. Culture B says "well now you have to live by our laws", and Culture A goes along with it to all outward appearances, but when no one's looking they still do things by the Old Traditions.
If the Empire doesn't recognize Skyrim's tradition of dueling, then yeah, sure, it's murder. "Skyrim should get to follow its traditional laws" is a valid outlook, but then so is "If it's part of the Empire, it has to follow Imperial law".
The part that makes it more muddled is that Skyrim is a kingdom within an empire which can mean a much higher divergence legally and culturally from a dukedom within a kingdom. We never really go that in depth on stuff like this in TES though. It's the kind of distinction that only really appeals to people that play Crusader Kings.
Well we know from Morrowwind that the Empire is largely ok with local traditions and legal practices so long as fealty is met and a couple big boxes are checked. But Morrowwind holding out for so long might have gotten them a better deal.
You know what happens when you time gate eating parts of an ice cream cone? I was excited for the wow expansion played it for a month and quit. Never even tried ESO since it got terribad reviews.
Recently I started a skyrim character and did my normal wreck everything in the area around where you start for a couple hours and never play the character again. Does anyone else do that from time to time? When I think about leveling enchanting/alchemy/smithing or pickpocketing/speech I'm always just like nah I'm good. The inner min/maxer in me wants to max out everything so I can destroy everything, but my brain is like dude you can destroy everything at like 10% of all that work.
Also there is usually a point if I play a character long enough that I am just strong enough to say screw it and kill entire towns because I don't care anymore, then I don't play that character anymore...
This happens to me quite often, and sometimes I save the game and continue on.
Like, I've never holed up in Solitude and made that a base of operations, or done any of the quests. Why? Because my bounty there is always atrociously high. I came to town once, and they beheaded a guy for opening a door? Fuck these people. Fus Roh Dah all these motherfuckers.
I then also come back to Solitude every now and then after I have the Odaviing shout, because he hates them fuckers too. I know he does because I shouted his name and politely asked him to hate them with me.
EDIT: I commonly play a Good Guy, but one who's willing to slip firmly into Bad Guy territory when an entire society is fucking up.
Solitude executed a gate guard who opened the gate to allow the guy who just murdered the king escape.
I can assure you that if something analogous happened in a modern military they'd shoot you. There would be a court marshal, but yes, you'd be shot.
"murdered the king" is where I take issue. If he was challenged to high combat, accepted the challenge, and died, and if that is, in fact, a Skyrim tradition, then I can get behind that, in an Elder Scrolls universe. Don't get me wrong, despite my hatred of the beheading with no trial whatsoever, I'm a big Imperial sympathizer, because the Nords are such racist fuckwits (Stormcloak included), and it's pretty obvious that Tullius is trying to unify the realm so they can kill Thalmor again. And I'm down for that. But Skyrim should be able to operate by Skyrim's laws. If the challenge was not something to adhere to, then the king shouldn't have adhered to it.
So a gate guard that lets a guy out because he believes something happened within the law occurred, and the Imperials (who won't give any shits about that) are going to kill said guy? I say he at least gets his day in court.
If that's not good enough, then I'll just chalk it up to PTSD from nearly having my own head chopped off 3-4 days prior.
Is there a mod that ends the game about as soon as it starts, with you having your head chopped off? I think that would at least make for a hilarious Youtube video.
I'm pretty sure they stated that he was found guilty of letting Ulfric go.
Well we know from Morrowwind that the Empire is largely ok with local traditions and legal practices so long as fealty is met and a couple big boxes are checked. But Morrowwind holding out for so long might have gotten them a better deal.
The Tribunal managed to negotiate a favorable deal for Morrowind's inclusion into the Empire. Basically, they gave Tiber Septim the Numidium and allowed Imperial Legion troops to be stationed in Morrowind, and in return got almost total autonomy. Various Dunmer traditions, like the House system and slavery, are allowed to remain by the Empire. I don't think any of the other provinces got the same amount of autonomy.
It should be noted that it wasn't exactly a fair fight.
King: Alright. Let's do this.
Ulfric: Fus Ro Dah!
*splat*
Which is silly because it certainly sounds like Ulfric would've beaten the hell out of him, anyway.
I think it's kinda lame that he did that, but I think Nords are just like, "Oh yeah, the Voice, sure, if you have that you're just a badass. Why wouldn't you use it?" Whereas if they used any actual magic, they'd have frowned on that and called him a pussy.
You know what happens when you time gate eating parts of an ice cream cone? I was excited for the wow expansion played it for a month and quit. Never even tried ESO since it got terribad reviews.
Recently I started a skyrim character and did my normal wreck everything in the area around where you start for a couple hours and never play the character again. Does anyone else do that from time to time? When I think about leveling enchanting/alchemy/smithing or pickpocketing/speech I'm always just like nah I'm good. The inner min/maxer in me wants to max out everything so I can destroy everything, but my brain is like dude you can destroy everything at like 10% of all that work.
Also there is usually a point if I play a character long enough that I am just strong enough to say screw it and kill entire towns because I don't care anymore, then I don't play that character anymore...
This happens to me quite often, and sometimes I save the game and continue on.
Like, I've never holed up in Solitude and made that a base of operations, or done any of the quests. Why? Because my bounty there is always atrociously high. I came to town once, and they beheaded a guy for opening a door? Fuck these people. Fus Roh Dah all these motherfuckers.
I then also come back to Solitude every now and then after I have the Odaviing shout, because he hates them fuckers too. I know he does because I shouted his name and politely asked him to hate them with me.
EDIT: I commonly play a Good Guy, but one who's willing to slip firmly into Bad Guy territory when an entire society is fucking up.
Solitude executed a gate guard who opened the gate to allow the guy who just murdered the king escape.
I can assure you that if something analogous happened in a modern military they'd shoot you. There would be a court marshal, but yes, you'd be shot.
"murdered the king" is where I take issue. If he was challenged to high combat, accepted the challenge, and died, and if that is, in fact, a Skyrim tradition, then I can get behind that, in an Elder Scrolls universe. Don't get me wrong, despite my hatred of the beheading with no trial whatsoever, I'm a big Imperial sympathizer, because the Nords are such racist fuckwits (Stormcloak included), and it's pretty obvious that Tullius is trying to unify the realm so they can kill Thalmor again. And I'm down for that. But Skyrim should be able to operate by Skyrim's laws. If the challenge was not something to adhere to, then the king shouldn't have adhered to it.
So a gate guard that lets a guy out because he believes something happened within the law occurred, and the Imperials (who won't give any shits about that) are going to kill said guy? I say he at least gets his day in court.
If that's not good enough, then I'll just chalk it up to PTSD from nearly having my own head chopped off 3-4 days prior.
Is there a mod that ends the game about as soon as it starts, with you having your head chopped off? I think that would at least make for a hilarious Youtube video.
I'm pretty sure they stated that he was found guilty of letting Ulfric go.
That assumes a trial, no?
It doesn't. As happens in the beginning of the game, people are often "found guilty" simply by being captured by the Empire.
Like, I can get behind not letting the barbaric assholes double-down on their murder traditions. I can get there. But then when you don't employ anything even remotely more civilized as a response, to hell with all of you.
At least, that's the way an Orc with head-chopping PTSD would rationalize it later to someone at The Bee and Barb, when asked.
That's pretty much how my Orc hero reacted to a town guard going straight to lethal force against a poor drunk Dunmer in Cheydinhal. "By the Nine, HE'S GOT A KNIFE!" *whack*
Thag rounded on the shaken guardsman. "What in Oblivion was that?"
The guardsman swallowed, some of the color returning to his face. "You saw. He came at me!"
"So you killed him!"
"I had to defend myself!" the guard snapped. "What was I supposed to do?"
"Find another way!" Thag roared. They were standing toe to toe now. "Call for help, grab the knife... take the hit, that's what armor's for! Knock him out, knock him down, but don't kill a man just for being drunk and angry!"
After dealing with the corrupt captain of the guard in that town, Thag went up to that same guard, tapped him on the shoulder, and when he turned to look, punched his lights out.
"That's how you put a man down without killing him," he declared, and walked away. No one tried to stop him.
That's pretty much how my Orc hero reacted to a town guard going straight to lethal force against a poor drunk Dunmer in Cheydinhal. "By the Nine, HE'S GOT A KNIFE!" *whack*
Thag rounded on the shaken guardsman. "What in Oblivion was that?"
The guardsman swallowed, some of the color returning to his face. "You saw. He came at me!"
"So you killed him!"
"I had to defend myself!" the guard snapped. "What was I supposed to do?"
"Find another way!" Thag roared. They were standing toe to toe now. "Call for help, grab the knife... take the hit, that's what armor's for! Knock him out, knock him down, but don't kill a man just for being drunk and angry!"
After dealing with the corrupt captain of the guard in that town, Thag went up to that same guard, tapped him on the shoulder, and when he turned to look, punched his lights out.
"That's how you put a man down without killing him," he declared, and walked away. No one tried to stop him.
It doesn't. As happens in the beginning of the game, people are often "found guilty" simply by being captured by the Empire.
Like, I can get behind not letting the barbaric assholes double-down on their murder traditions. I can get there. But then when you don't employ anything even remotely more civilized as a response, to hell with all of you.
At least, that's the way an Orc with head-chopping PTSD would rationalize it later to someone at The Bee and Barb, when asked.
That very well may be true, but there's also a bunch of eyewitnesses to the crime, and I generally read it as "Yeah we had a trial in which A WHOLE BUNCH OF PEOPLE said that yes he opened the door when in fact he should not have".
Even Roggvir's supporters were like "you know he did open that door but execution was a little harsh"
also consider that Ulfric had time to travel from Solitude to the southern Skyrim border, a journey that takes at least a few days. Then get captured. And then another few days for the player character to reach Solitude from Helgen, assuming that the player character books it straight to Solitude... meaning there is probably at least a week+ for the execution to actually happen.
For being an accessory to the murder of a king a week+ turnaround on getting your head lopped off is pretty leniant. The player character just gets unlucky and happens to show up next to Ulfric Stormcloak. Who happens to be a king murderer and leader of an open rebellion. And may or may not be an accessory to such a la Roggvir.
It doesn't. As happens in the beginning of the game, people are often "found guilty" simply by being captured by the Empire.
Like, I can get behind not letting the barbaric assholes double-down on their murder traditions. I can get there. But then when you don't employ anything even remotely more civilized as a response, to hell with all of you.
At least, that's the way an Orc with head-chopping PTSD would rationalize it later to someone at The Bee and Barb, when asked.
That very well may be true, but there's also a bunch of eyewitnesses to the crime, and I generally read it as "Yeah we had a trial in which A WHOLE BUNCH OF PEOPLE said that yes he opened the door when in fact he should not have".
Even Roggvir's supporters were like "you know he did open that door but execution was a little harsh"
also consider that Ulfric had time to travel from Solitude to the southern Skyrim border, a journey that takes at least a few days. Then get captured. And then another few days for the player character to reach Solitude from Helgen, assuming that the player character books it straight to Solitude... meaning there is probably at least a week+ for the execution to actually happen.
For being an accessory to the murder of a king a week+ turnaround on getting your head lopped off is pretty leniant. The player character just gets unlucky and happens to show up next to Ulfric Stormcloak. Who happens to be a king murderer and leader of an open rebellion. And may or may not be an accessory to such a la Roggvir.
But I don't see how any of that enters into the narrative an Orc with head-chopping PTSD is going to form when he's getting drunk at The Bee and Barb and someone asks him why he killed shitloads of people in Solitude. He's not going to do travel math, or discuss eyewitness accounts. He'll talk about how some of the people in Solitude were being snippy with the executed's children and acting like generally awful people, and the world is better without them. One of them even said something shitty about my clothes while I was killing them!
I've never tried, but like you can stop the murder in Markath by using pre-emptive violence, would it be possible to stop the execution?
Before following any advice, opinions, or thoughts I may have expressed in the above post, be warned: I found Keven Costners "Waterworld" to be a very entertaining film.
I've never tried, but like you can stop the murder in Markath by using pre-emptive violence, would it be possible to stop the execution?
I've tried, but it becomes such a whirlwind of shit that I don't know exactly how, but Roggvir is dead every time.
EDIT: Looked it up. Yes, through a lot of painstaking and planning, you can save him, only for him to die of a brain aneurysm shortly afterward, and he doesn't say anything other than "Hmm?"
I've never tried, but like you can stop the murder in Markath by using pre-emptive violence, would it be possible to stop the execution?
I've tried, but it becomes such a whirlwind of shit that I don't know exactly how, but Roggvir is dead every time.
EDIT: Looked it up. Yes, through a lot of painstaking and planning, you can save him, only for him to die of a brain aneurysm shortly afterward, and he doesn't say anything other than "Hmm?"
Having a really high one handed skill is making my boat entrance quite bloody. The lieutenant's office is fucking painted red.
I've also wasted a great deal of tune burning through that dragon assault. Fucking mech dragon and it's summons cleared out half the countryside outside solitude.
I think it's kinda lame that he did that, but I think Nords are just like, "Oh yeah, the Voice, sure, if you have that you're just a badass. Why wouldn't you use it?" Whereas if they used any actual magic, they'd have frowned on that and called him a pussy.
It's been awhile since I've gone Full Lore Nerd, but if I'm remembering my Nord history correctly, they haven't been copacetic about the use of the Voice in combat for a hair more than four millenia. Following Jurgen Windcaller's tragicomic loss in a campaign against Morrowind and the formation of the Greybeards, it's been a cultural touchstone of the Nords that you don't use Thu'um without 'True Need', e.g. saving the world. You certainly wouldn't use it for offensive or self-interested purposes. In the case of Ulfric, it's extra-sketch. When you go to study with the Greybeards to refine your Thu'um, you're supposed to be learning the morality and ethics of the Way of the Voice as well (summed up the dragontongue motto 'Sky Above, Voice Within'). Instead, Ulfric wanders off to be a murderhobo.
The best real world analogue I can think of, would be if the Order of Saint Francis had developed a way to pray people to death. They never used it, of course, but learning it and practicing it was part of their traditions. And then, one of their students decides to peace out and goes around praying people to death. Ulfric is doing something that is seriously culturally unacceptable (which the cardboard cutouts of the actual game doesn't do a good job of talking about or addressing).
+2
L Ron HowardThe duckMinnesotaRegistered Userregular
I've never tried, but like you can stop the murder in Markath by using pre-emptive violence, would it be possible to stop the execution?
If you run up to the stage where he's getting decapitated, the Guard Hivemind immediately turns hostile to you, and will not give you a chance to pay a fine or go to jail.
You also cannot console kill the executioner until after he's killed Rogvir, he's marked as essential.
It's all a load of Imperial bullshit, if you ask me.
Which is why the xenos Solitude must be purged from the planet with fire.
It doesn't. As happens in the beginning of the game, people are often "found guilty" simply by being captured by the Empire.
Like, I can get behind not letting the barbaric assholes double-down on their murder traditions. I can get there. But then when you don't employ anything even remotely more civilized as a response, to hell with all of you.
At least, that's the way an Orc with head-chopping PTSD would rationalize it later to someone at The Bee and Barb, when asked.
That very well may be true, but there's also a bunch of eyewitnesses to the crime, and I generally read it as "Yeah we had a trial in which A WHOLE BUNCH OF PEOPLE said that yes he opened the door when in fact he should not have".
Even Roggvir's supporters were like "you know he did open that door but execution was a little harsh"
also consider that Ulfric had time to travel from Solitude to the southern Skyrim border, a journey that takes at least a few days. Then get captured. And then another few days for the player character to reach Solitude from Helgen, assuming that the player character books it straight to Solitude... meaning there is probably at least a week+ for the execution to actually happen.
For being an accessory to the murder of a king a week+ turnaround on getting your head lopped off is pretty leniant. The player character just gets unlucky and happens to show up next to Ulfric Stormcloak. Who happens to be a king murderer and leader of an open rebellion. And may or may not be an accessory to such a la Roggvir.
But I don't see how any of that enters into the narrative an Orc with head-chopping PTSD is going to form when he's getting drunk at The Bee and Barb and someone asks him why he killed shitloads of people in Solitude. He's not going to do travel math, or discuss eyewitness accounts. He'll talk about how some of the people in Solitude were being snippy with the executed's children and acting like generally awful people, and the world is better without them. One of them even said something shitty about my clothes while I was killing them!
...Okay that's true.
But the initial thing I quoted made it seem like it was less in character thought processes and more OOC judgements!
In my defense I wandered into this thread after being up for way too long because night shift
The only town i've done a murder spree in is Markarth. I was trying to think if I ever did one in Windhelm, but that town actually has a couple of decent people in it plus you can't take out the worst one until the end of the Civil War line because reasons.
It's too bad you can't just walk in and Fus Ro Dah Ulfric out a window. It would be rather apropos.
I swear, trying to actually finish the main questline in Morrowind is like Xeno's Paradox. I get halfway there and halfway there and halfway there and halfway there and eventually I'm kinda floating DBZ style around Dagoth Ur's pad but then I go "ooh shiny" and continue to not quite get there.
Did kill Archmage Trebonius on the way though, finally. Dude had a REALLY nice necklace. That 25% Spell Absorb is gonna be hella useful against Dagoth Ur.
I should really screenshot my current stats sometime. I got to 100 everything except Luck, and because I'm a weird kleptomaniac who will enter every dungeon I see and take everything in it, I have a lot of TRULY OUTRAGEOUS gear, and thus something like a constant 90% Magicka resistance, 40% Reflect, 20% resist to all elements, poison, & paralyze, and then 25% spell absorb.
I'm hoping this means that Dagoth Ur will sort of flail ineffectually against my insane magic defenses while I just hit him in the face repeatedly with Goldbrand.
*e* Can we talk about bandits for a bit though? Like, dear Bethesda, get your bandits better AI, because I know this happens in Skyrim and ESO too...
Here I am, with +2000 speed from a potion and flying because of my Belt of Netch Flight (constant effect: 5 Levitate), zipping across the continent because I can't be buggered to fast travel to Caldera to use the Propolyon Index, and I land on the road and three random Dark Elves start going YOU N'WAH and I'm like
standing there
While they completely fail to overcome either my physical or magical defenses like
"Do you know who I fucking AM? What the hell makes you think oh yeah, I'll attack the GLOWING SPARKLY CAT who just FELL OUT OF THE SKY FROM 2000 FEET UP AND TOOK NO DAMAGE. Yeah that's a great plan."
I actually left without killing them because I was like nah, this isn't worth my time and y'all probably don't even have money.
I think it's kinda lame that he did that, but I think Nords are just like, "Oh yeah, the Voice, sure, if you have that you're just a badass. Why wouldn't you use it?" Whereas if they used any actual magic, they'd have frowned on that and called him a pussy.
It's been awhile since I've gone Full Lore Nerd, but if I'm remembering my Nord history correctly, they haven't been copacetic about the use of the Voice in combat for a hair more than four millenia. Following Jurgen Windcaller's tragicomic loss in a campaign against Morrowind and the formation of the Greybeards, it's been a cultural touchstone of the Nords that you don't use Thu'um without 'True Need', e.g. saving the world. You certainly wouldn't use it for offensive or self-interested purposes. In the case of Ulfric, it's extra-sketch. When you go to study with the Greybeards to refine your Thu'um, you're supposed to be learning the morality and ethics of the Way of the Voice as well (summed up the dragontongue motto 'Sky Above, Voice Within'). Instead, Ulfric wanders off to be a murderhobo.
The best real world analogue I can think of, would be if the Order of Saint Francis had developed a way to pray people to death. They never used it, of course, but learning it and practicing it was part of their traditions. And then, one of their students decides to peace out and goes around praying people to death. Ulfric is doing something that is seriously culturally unacceptable (which the cardboard cutouts of the actual game doesn't do a good job of talking about or addressing).
Okay, these are pretty fair points, and is pretty interesting lore. Yes, they don't do a good job of explaining this in the game, because it's pretty much only the Greybeards that profess this line of thinking.
It doesn't. As happens in the beginning of the game, people are often "found guilty" simply by being captured by the Empire.
Like, I can get behind not letting the barbaric assholes double-down on their murder traditions. I can get there. But then when you don't employ anything even remotely more civilized as a response, to hell with all of you.
At least, that's the way an Orc with head-chopping PTSD would rationalize it later to someone at The Bee and Barb, when asked.
That very well may be true, but there's also a bunch of eyewitnesses to the crime, and I generally read it as "Yeah we had a trial in which A WHOLE BUNCH OF PEOPLE said that yes he opened the door when in fact he should not have".
Even Roggvir's supporters were like "you know he did open that door but execution was a little harsh"
also consider that Ulfric had time to travel from Solitude to the southern Skyrim border, a journey that takes at least a few days. Then get captured. And then another few days for the player character to reach Solitude from Helgen, assuming that the player character books it straight to Solitude... meaning there is probably at least a week+ for the execution to actually happen.
For being an accessory to the murder of a king a week+ turnaround on getting your head lopped off is pretty leniant. The player character just gets unlucky and happens to show up next to Ulfric Stormcloak. Who happens to be a king murderer and leader of an open rebellion. And may or may not be an accessory to such a la Roggvir.
But I don't see how any of that enters into the narrative an Orc with head-chopping PTSD is going to form when he's getting drunk at The Bee and Barb and someone asks him why he killed shitloads of people in Solitude. He's not going to do travel math, or discuss eyewitness accounts. He'll talk about how some of the people in Solitude were being snippy with the executed's children and acting like generally awful people, and the world is better without them. One of them even said something shitty about my clothes while I was killing them!
...Okay that's true.
But the initial thing I quoted made it seem like it was less in character thought processes and more OOC judgements!
In my defense I wandered into this thread after being up for way too long because night shift
No no, I definitely moved the goal posts about a hundred times in this conversation, as my way of conceding several times, yet still justifying why my murderous son-of-a-bitch character thinks what he did was okay. You were on the ball, sir.
The only town i've done a murder spree in is Markarth. I was trying to think if I ever did one in Windhelm, but that town actually has a couple of decent people in it plus you can't take out the worst one until the end of the Civil War line because reasons.
It's too bad you can't just walk in and Fus Ro Dah Ulfric out a window. It would be rather apropos.
I've wanted to kill that racist piece of shit so many times. Not because of the racism, but because he needs to watch his fucking tone around the goddamn Dragonborn.
You know what happens when you time gate eating parts of an ice cream cone? I was excited for the wow expansion played it for a month and quit. Never even tried ESO since it got terribad reviews.
Recently I started a skyrim character and did my normal wreck everything in the area around where you start for a couple hours and never play the character again. Does anyone else do that from time to time? When I think about leveling enchanting/alchemy/smithing or pickpocketing/speech I'm always just like nah I'm good. The inner min/maxer in me wants to max out everything so I can destroy everything, but my brain is like dude you can destroy everything at like 10% of all that work.
Also there is usually a point if I play a character long enough that I am just strong enough to say screw it and kill entire towns because I don't care anymore, then I don't play that character anymore...
This happens to me quite often, and sometimes I save the game and continue on.
Like, I've never holed up in Solitude and made that a base of operations, or done any of the quests. Why? Because my bounty there is always atrociously high. I came to town once, and they beheaded a guy for opening a door? Fuck these people. Fus Roh Dah all these motherfuckers.
I then also come back to Solitude every now and then after I have the Odaviing shout, because he hates them fuckers too. I know he does because I shouted his name and politely asked him to hate them with me.
EDIT: I commonly play a Good Guy, but one who's willing to slip firmly into Bad Guy territory when an entire society is fucking up.
Solitude executed a gate guard who opened the gate to allow the guy who just murdered the king escape.
I can assure you that if something analogous happened in a modern military they'd shoot you. There would be a court marshal, but yes, you'd be shot.
"murdered the king" is where I take issue. If he was challenged to high combat, accepted the challenge, and died, and if that is, in fact, a Skyrim tradition, then I can get behind that, in an Elder Scrolls universe. Don't get me wrong, despite my hatred of the beheading with no trial whatsoever, I'm a big Imperial sympathizer, because the Nords are such racist fuckwits (Stormcloak included), and it's pretty obvious that Tullius is trying to unify the realm so they can kill Thalmor again. And I'm down for that. But Skyrim should be able to operate by Skyrim's laws. If the challenge was not something to adhere to, then the king shouldn't have adhered to it.
So a gate guard that lets a guy out because he believes something happened within the law occurred, and the Imperials (who won't give any shits about that) are going to kill said guy? I say he at least gets his day in court.
If that's not good enough, then I'll just chalk it up to PTSD from nearly having my own head chopped off 3-4 days prior.
Is there a mod that ends the game about as soon as it starts, with you having your head chopped off? I think that would at least make for a hilarious Youtube video.
That was not the gate guards call to make in any case at all.
You know what a military or police force is if everyone just follows their individual opinion instead of orders?
I've never tried, but like you can stop the murder in Markath by using pre-emptive violence, would it be possible to stop the execution?
You also cannot console kill the executioner until after he's killed Rogvir, he's marked as essential.
You underestimate the power of the console.
For some reason, I can never make him unessential.
Rogvir is scripted to die, and will die when the script runs regardless of your efforts.
Rogvir not dying would require a mod that changed the game scripts, you're not gonna be able to save him with the console.
And why would you? He's a useless idiot who failed at his job and helped the civil war to continue (costing god only knows how many people their lives).
Also, SPOILER:
Rogvir is nowhere to be found in Sovngarde
Apparently even the universe think he was an assclown
L Ron HowardThe duckMinnesotaRegistered Userregular
What is best city in Skyrim?
I think I've murdered all of them for different reasons.
Windhelm has Captain Racist and his racist cavalry, and should really be purged.
Markarth is a shithole, and needs to be purged. Also full of awful racists.
Riften is a pile, and needs to be purged.
Whiterun is alright, I guess. The children there are awful, and, as such, the whole city should be purged.
Solitude, Morthal and Dawnstar are alright, for the tiny little hick towns they are. Purge them as well.
I think I've murdered all of them for different reasons.
Windhelm has Captain Racist and his racist cavalry, and should really be purged.
Markarth is a shithole, and needs to be purged. Also full of awful racists.
Riften is a pile, and needs to be purged.
Whiterun is alright, I guess. The children there are awful, and, as such, the whole city should be purged.
Solitude, Morthal and Dawnstar are alright, for the tiny little hick towns they are. Purge them as well.
Riften is actually filled with decent people. It's just the people running it are awful. It needs a revolution, not a purge.
You know what happens when you time gate eating parts of an ice cream cone? I was excited for the wow expansion played it for a month and quit. Never even tried ESO since it got terribad reviews.
Recently I started a skyrim character and did my normal wreck everything in the area around where you start for a couple hours and never play the character again. Does anyone else do that from time to time? When I think about leveling enchanting/alchemy/smithing or pickpocketing/speech I'm always just like nah I'm good. The inner min/maxer in me wants to max out everything so I can destroy everything, but my brain is like dude you can destroy everything at like 10% of all that work.
Also there is usually a point if I play a character long enough that I am just strong enough to say screw it and kill entire towns because I don't care anymore, then I don't play that character anymore...
This happens to me quite often, and sometimes I save the game and continue on.
Like, I've never holed up in Solitude and made that a base of operations, or done any of the quests. Why? Because my bounty there is always atrociously high. I came to town once, and they beheaded a guy for opening a door? Fuck these people. Fus Roh Dah all these motherfuckers.
I then also come back to Solitude every now and then after I have the Odaviing shout, because he hates them fuckers too. I know he does because I shouted his name and politely asked him to hate them with me.
EDIT: I commonly play a Good Guy, but one who's willing to slip firmly into Bad Guy territory when an entire society is fucking up.
Solitude executed a gate guard who opened the gate to allow the guy who just murdered the king escape.
I can assure you that if something analogous happened in a modern military they'd shoot you. There would be a court marshal, but yes, you'd be shot.
"murdered the king" is where I take issue. If he was challenged to high combat, accepted the challenge, and died, and if that is, in fact, a Skyrim tradition, then I can get behind that, in an Elder Scrolls universe. Don't get me wrong, despite my hatred of the beheading with no trial whatsoever, I'm a big Imperial sympathizer, because the Nords are such racist fuckwits (Stormcloak included), and it's pretty obvious that Tullius is trying to unify the realm so they can kill Thalmor again. And I'm down for that. But Skyrim should be able to operate by Skyrim's laws. If the challenge was not something to adhere to, then the king shouldn't have adhered to it.
So a gate guard that lets a guy out because he believes something happened within the law occurred, and the Imperials (who won't give any shits about that) are going to kill said guy? I say he at least gets his day in court.
If that's not good enough, then I'll just chalk it up to PTSD from nearly having my own head chopped off 3-4 days prior.
Is there a mod that ends the game about as soon as it starts, with you having your head chopped off? I think that would at least make for a hilarious Youtube video.
That was not the gate guards call to make in any case at all.
You know what a military or police force is if everyone just follows their individual opinion instead of orders?
It's pure anarchy. Like, Somalia level.
I know what happens when people just follow orders.
My head ends up on the chopping block in Helgen, that's what!
You know what happens when you time gate eating parts of an ice cream cone? I was excited for the wow expansion played it for a month and quit. Never even tried ESO since it got terribad reviews.
Recently I started a skyrim character and did my normal wreck everything in the area around where you start for a couple hours and never play the character again. Does anyone else do that from time to time? When I think about leveling enchanting/alchemy/smithing or pickpocketing/speech I'm always just like nah I'm good. The inner min/maxer in me wants to max out everything so I can destroy everything, but my brain is like dude you can destroy everything at like 10% of all that work.
Also there is usually a point if I play a character long enough that I am just strong enough to say screw it and kill entire towns because I don't care anymore, then I don't play that character anymore...
This happens to me quite often, and sometimes I save the game and continue on.
Like, I've never holed up in Solitude and made that a base of operations, or done any of the quests. Why? Because my bounty there is always atrociously high. I came to town once, and they beheaded a guy for opening a door? Fuck these people. Fus Roh Dah all these motherfuckers.
I then also come back to Solitude every now and then after I have the Odaviing shout, because he hates them fuckers too. I know he does because I shouted his name and politely asked him to hate them with me.
EDIT: I commonly play a Good Guy, but one who's willing to slip firmly into Bad Guy territory when an entire society is fucking up.
Solitude executed a gate guard who opened the gate to allow the guy who just murdered the king escape.
I can assure you that if something analogous happened in a modern military they'd shoot you. There would be a court marshal, but yes, you'd be shot.
"murdered the king" is where I take issue. If he was challenged to high combat, accepted the challenge, and died, and if that is, in fact, a Skyrim tradition, then I can get behind that, in an Elder Scrolls universe. Don't get me wrong, despite my hatred of the beheading with no trial whatsoever, I'm a big Imperial sympathizer, because the Nords are such racist fuckwits (Stormcloak included), and it's pretty obvious that Tullius is trying to unify the realm so they can kill Thalmor again. And I'm down for that. But Skyrim should be able to operate by Skyrim's laws. If the challenge was not something to adhere to, then the king shouldn't have adhered to it.
So a gate guard that lets a guy out because he believes something happened within the law occurred, and the Imperials (who won't give any shits about that) are going to kill said guy? I say he at least gets his day in court.
If that's not good enough, then I'll just chalk it up to PTSD from nearly having my own head chopped off 3-4 days prior.
Is there a mod that ends the game about as soon as it starts, with you having your head chopped off? I think that would at least make for a hilarious Youtube video.
That was not the gate guards call to make in any case at all.
You know what a military or police force is if everyone just follows their individual opinion instead of orders?
It's pure anarchy. Like, Somalia level.
I know what happens when people just follow orders.
My head ends up on the chopping block in Helgen, that's what!
PTSD!!!
So you murdered an entire city because they failed to post a trigger warning on the front gate.
Not that I'm judging you... I think most people have gone on murder sprees in Skyrim. The difference is that most people do it and then reload an earlier game. Very few people actually incorporate their murder sprees into their actual playthrough.
The Take Notes mod really made me fall into a rp hole for a few characters. I think I incorporated a Markarth purge and a few Werewolf/Vampire rampages into them.
You know what happens when you time gate eating parts of an ice cream cone? I was excited for the wow expansion played it for a month and quit. Never even tried ESO since it got terribad reviews.
Recently I started a skyrim character and did my normal wreck everything in the area around where you start for a couple hours and never play the character again. Does anyone else do that from time to time? When I think about leveling enchanting/alchemy/smithing or pickpocketing/speech I'm always just like nah I'm good. The inner min/maxer in me wants to max out everything so I can destroy everything, but my brain is like dude you can destroy everything at like 10% of all that work.
Also there is usually a point if I play a character long enough that I am just strong enough to say screw it and kill entire towns because I don't care anymore, then I don't play that character anymore...
This happens to me quite often, and sometimes I save the game and continue on.
Like, I've never holed up in Solitude and made that a base of operations, or done any of the quests. Why? Because my bounty there is always atrociously high. I came to town once, and they beheaded a guy for opening a door? Fuck these people. Fus Roh Dah all these motherfuckers.
I then also come back to Solitude every now and then after I have the Odaviing shout, because he hates them fuckers too. I know he does because I shouted his name and politely asked him to hate them with me.
EDIT: I commonly play a Good Guy, but one who's willing to slip firmly into Bad Guy territory when an entire society is fucking up.
Solitude executed a gate guard who opened the gate to allow the guy who just murdered the king escape.
I can assure you that if something analogous happened in a modern military they'd shoot you. There would be a court marshal, but yes, you'd be shot.
"murdered the king" is where I take issue. If he was challenged to high combat, accepted the challenge, and died, and if that is, in fact, a Skyrim tradition, then I can get behind that, in an Elder Scrolls universe. Don't get me wrong, despite my hatred of the beheading with no trial whatsoever, I'm a big Imperial sympathizer, because the Nords are such racist fuckwits (Stormcloak included), and it's pretty obvious that Tullius is trying to unify the realm so they can kill Thalmor again. And I'm down for that. But Skyrim should be able to operate by Skyrim's laws. If the challenge was not something to adhere to, then the king shouldn't have adhered to it.
So a gate guard that lets a guy out because he believes something happened within the law occurred, and the Imperials (who won't give any shits about that) are going to kill said guy? I say he at least gets his day in court.
If that's not good enough, then I'll just chalk it up to PTSD from nearly having my own head chopped off 3-4 days prior.
Is there a mod that ends the game about as soon as it starts, with you having your head chopped off? I think that would at least make for a hilarious Youtube video.
That was not the gate guards call to make in any case at all.
You know what a military or police force is if everyone just follows their individual opinion instead of orders?
It's pure anarchy. Like, Somalia level.
I know what happens when people just follow orders.
My head ends up on the chopping block in Helgen, that's what!
PTSD!!!
So you murdered an entire city because they failed to post a trigger warning on the front gate.
Not that I'm judging you... I think most people have gone on murder sprees in Skyrim. The difference is that most people do it and then reload an earlier game. Very few people actually incorporate their murder sprees into their actual playthrough.
To be fair, most of my murder sprees do not become part of my actual playthrough. It usually culminates in, "This was fun, but I'm done now." or "Oh shit, I'm dead!"
Sometimes I decide before I roll a character, that I will let the chips fall where they may. That's the attitude I'm taking with my Morrowind playthrough right now, so I'm acting with a bit more restraint.
The last time I did a Solitude purge, I was playing an Axe-and-Board Orc who didn't take shit from nobody, and whose idea of righting wrongs clearly has no real math to it. He sees that the Imperials are beheading people again, he flips out and goes on a murder spree. He went to Windhelm and had the same reaction when he encountered the racist shit at the gate. I was not playing a good guy, just one who thinks brute force and slaughter is an acceptable answer to any problem. If you were to get drunk with him, he'd probably make everyone else out to be the bad guy, and really accentuate how horrible they were. He puts on stuff like Ebony Mail and gives absolutely no shits if the very innocents he's "trying to protect" get killed by it in the process. They probably had that coming, and thank the Nine he took care of them.
Like I said before, you guys have made good points, and I myself have trouble distinguishing my own logic from my character's.
Posts
King: Alright. Let's do this.
Ulfric: Fus Ro Dah!
*splat*
Which is silly because it certainly sounds like Ulfric would've beaten the hell out of him, anyway.
Steam: MightyPotatoKing
The part that makes it more muddled is that Skyrim is a kingdom within an empire which can mean a much higher divergence legally and culturally from a dukedom within a kingdom. We never really go that in depth on stuff like this in TES though. It's the kind of distinction that only really appeals to people that play Crusader Kings.
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I'm pretty sure they stated that he was found guilty of letting Ulfric go.
That assumes a trial, no?
I think it's kinda lame that he did that, but I think Nords are just like, "Oh yeah, the Voice, sure, if you have that you're just a badass. Why wouldn't you use it?" Whereas if they used any actual magic, they'd have frowned on that and called him a pussy.
It doesn't. As happens in the beginning of the game, people are often "found guilty" simply by being captured by the Empire.
Like, I can get behind not letting the barbaric assholes double-down on their murder traditions. I can get there. But then when you don't employ anything even remotely more civilized as a response, to hell with all of you.
At least, that's the way an Orc with head-chopping PTSD would rationalize it later to someone at The Bee and Barb, when asked.
The guardsman swallowed, some of the color returning to his face. "You saw. He came at me!"
"So you killed him!"
"I had to defend myself!" the guard snapped. "What was I supposed to do?"
"Find another way!" Thag roared. They were standing toe to toe now. "Call for help, grab the knife... take the hit, that's what armor's for! Knock him out, knock him down, but don't kill a man just for being drunk and angry!"
"That's how you put a man down without killing him," he declared, and walked away. No one tried to stop him.
Steam, Warframe: Megajoule
#MerLivesMatter
That very well may be true, but there's also a bunch of eyewitnesses to the crime, and I generally read it as "Yeah we had a trial in which A WHOLE BUNCH OF PEOPLE said that yes he opened the door when in fact he should not have".
Even Roggvir's supporters were like "you know he did open that door but execution was a little harsh"
also consider that Ulfric had time to travel from Solitude to the southern Skyrim border, a journey that takes at least a few days. Then get captured. And then another few days for the player character to reach Solitude from Helgen, assuming that the player character books it straight to Solitude... meaning there is probably at least a week+ for the execution to actually happen.
For being an accessory to the murder of a king a week+ turnaround on getting your head lopped off is pretty leniant. The player character just gets unlucky and happens to show up next to Ulfric Stormcloak. Who happens to be a king murderer and leader of an open rebellion. And may or may not be an accessory to such a la Roggvir.
But I don't see how any of that enters into the narrative an Orc with head-chopping PTSD is going to form when he's getting drunk at The Bee and Barb and someone asks him why he killed shitloads of people in Solitude. He's not going to do travel math, or discuss eyewitness accounts. He'll talk about how some of the people in Solitude were being snippy with the executed's children and acting like generally awful people, and the world is better without them. One of them even said something shitty about my clothes while I was killing them!
I've tried, but it becomes such a whirlwind of shit that I don't know exactly how, but Roggvir is dead every time.
EDIT: Looked it up. Yes, through a lot of painstaking and planning, you can save him, only for him to die of a brain aneurysm shortly afterward, and he doesn't say anything other than "Hmm?"
The Elder Scrolls, by H.G. Wells
I've also wasted a great deal of tune burning through that dragon assault. Fucking mech dragon and it's summons cleared out half the countryside outside solitude.
Did empty out the embassy.
http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=16534
It's been awhile since I've gone Full Lore Nerd, but if I'm remembering my Nord history correctly, they haven't been copacetic about the use of the Voice in combat for a hair more than four millenia. Following Jurgen Windcaller's tragicomic loss in a campaign against Morrowind and the formation of the Greybeards, it's been a cultural touchstone of the Nords that you don't use Thu'um without 'True Need', e.g. saving the world. You certainly wouldn't use it for offensive or self-interested purposes. In the case of Ulfric, it's extra-sketch. When you go to study with the Greybeards to refine your Thu'um, you're supposed to be learning the morality and ethics of the Way of the Voice as well (summed up the dragontongue motto 'Sky Above, Voice Within'). Instead, Ulfric wanders off to be a murderhobo.
The best real world analogue I can think of, would be if the Order of Saint Francis had developed a way to pray people to death. They never used it, of course, but learning it and practicing it was part of their traditions. And then, one of their students decides to peace out and goes around praying people to death. Ulfric is doing something that is seriously culturally unacceptable (which the cardboard cutouts of the actual game doesn't do a good job of talking about or addressing).
If you run up to the stage where he's getting decapitated, the Guard Hivemind immediately turns hostile to you, and will not give you a chance to pay a fine or go to jail.
You also cannot console kill the executioner until after he's killed Rogvir, he's marked as essential.
It's all a load of Imperial bullshit, if you ask me.
Which is why the xenos Solitude must be purged from the planet with fire.
Unfortunately, that will also include my blinged out house.
WoW
Dear Satan.....
You underestimate the power of the console.
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...Okay that's true.
But the initial thing I quoted made it seem like it was less in character thought processes and more OOC judgements!
In my defense I wandered into this thread after being up for way too long because night shift
It's too bad you can't just walk in and Fus Ro Dah Ulfric out a window. It would be rather apropos.
Did kill Archmage Trebonius on the way though, finally. Dude had a REALLY nice necklace. That 25% Spell Absorb is gonna be hella useful against Dagoth Ur.
I should really screenshot my current stats sometime. I got to 100 everything except Luck, and because I'm a weird kleptomaniac who will enter every dungeon I see and take everything in it, I have a lot of TRULY OUTRAGEOUS gear, and thus something like a constant 90% Magicka resistance, 40% Reflect, 20% resist to all elements, poison, & paralyze, and then 25% spell absorb.
I'm hoping this means that Dagoth Ur will sort of flail ineffectually against my insane magic defenses while I just hit him in the face repeatedly with Goldbrand.
*e* Can we talk about bandits for a bit though? Like, dear Bethesda, get your bandits better AI, because I know this happens in Skyrim and ESO too...
Here I am, with +2000 speed from a potion and flying because of my Belt of Netch Flight (constant effect: 5 Levitate), zipping across the continent because I can't be buggered to fast travel to Caldera to use the Propolyon Index, and I land on the road and three random Dark Elves start going YOU N'WAH and I'm like
standing there
While they completely fail to overcome either my physical or magical defenses like
"Do you know who I fucking AM? What the hell makes you think oh yeah, I'll attack the GLOWING SPARKLY CAT who just FELL OUT OF THE SKY FROM 2000 FEET UP AND TOOK NO DAMAGE. Yeah that's a great plan."
I actually left without killing them because I was like nah, this isn't worth my time and y'all probably don't even have money.
https://podcast.tidalwavegames.com/
Okay, these are pretty fair points, and is pretty interesting lore. Yes, they don't do a good job of explaining this in the game, because it's pretty much only the Greybeards that profess this line of thinking.
No no, I definitely moved the goal posts about a hundred times in this conversation, as my way of conceding several times, yet still justifying why my murderous son-of-a-bitch character thinks what he did was okay. You were on the ball, sir.
I've wanted to kill that racist piece of shit so many times. Not because of the racism, but because he needs to watch his fucking tone around the goddamn Dragonborn.
He does not watch his fucking tone. DOES NOT!
For some reason, I can never make him unessential.
That was not the gate guards call to make in any case at all.
You know what a military or police force is if everyone just follows their individual opinion instead of orders?
It's pure anarchy. Like, Somalia level.
Rogvir is scripted to die, and will die when the script runs regardless of your efforts.
Rogvir not dying would require a mod that changed the game scripts, you're not gonna be able to save him with the console.
And why would you? He's a useless idiot who failed at his job and helped the civil war to continue (costing god only knows how many people their lives).
Also, SPOILER:
Apparently even the universe think he was an assclown
#stormcloak4life
Steam Support is the worst. Seriously, the worst
I think I've murdered all of them for different reasons.
Windhelm has Captain Racist and his racist cavalry, and should really be purged.
Markarth is a shithole, and needs to be purged. Also full of awful racists.
Riften is a pile, and needs to be purged.
Whiterun is alright, I guess. The children there are awful, and, as such, the whole city should be purged.
Solitude, Morthal and Dawnstar are alright, for the tiny little hick towns they are. Purge them as well.
"People of Winterhold! The Dragonborn has come to destroy all that you hold dear."
*Look around*
"Oh, I see then. Carry on."
Steam ID: 76561198021298113
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Riften is actually filled with decent people. It's just the people running it are awful. It needs a revolution, not a purge.
Yeah but it captures that "Long miserable winter waiting for Ragnarok to end it all" Norse myth feel pretty damn well.
I know what happens when people just follow orders.
My head ends up on the chopping block in Helgen, that's what!
PTSD!!!
So you murdered an entire city because they failed to post a trigger warning on the front gate.
Seems reasonable.
To be fair, most of my murder sprees do not become part of my actual playthrough. It usually culminates in, "This was fun, but I'm done now." or "Oh shit, I'm dead!"
Sometimes I decide before I roll a character, that I will let the chips fall where they may. That's the attitude I'm taking with my Morrowind playthrough right now, so I'm acting with a bit more restraint.
The last time I did a Solitude purge, I was playing an Axe-and-Board Orc who didn't take shit from nobody, and whose idea of righting wrongs clearly has no real math to it. He sees that the Imperials are beheading people again, he flips out and goes on a murder spree. He went to Windhelm and had the same reaction when he encountered the racist shit at the gate. I was not playing a good guy, just one who thinks brute force and slaughter is an acceptable answer to any problem. If you were to get drunk with him, he'd probably make everyone else out to be the bad guy, and really accentuate how horrible they were. He puts on stuff like Ebony Mail and gives absolutely no shits if the very innocents he's "trying to protect" get killed by it in the process. They probably had that coming, and thank the Nine he took care of them.
Like I said before, you guys have made good points, and I myself have trouble distinguishing my own logic from my character's.