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[The Elder Scrolls] in which we discuss modding and murder Thalmor on sight

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  • Sir CarcassSir Carcass I have been shown the end of my world Round Rock, TXRegistered User regular
    Goumindong wrote: »
    The problem with that that it takes too long. You say "yea turn based" until you pause for the tenth worthless bandit you're going to goomba stomp. Turn based fundamentally doesn't work unless you're a mission type system and there is a realistic hard limit on what you're going to play.

    I thought of that, and they'd have to make combats more meaningful and less just random mooks, which I'm perfectly fine with.

  • Ivan HungerIvan Hunger Registered User regular
    A game with Skyrim's combat and Morrowind's quest design would pretty much be my ideal Bethesda game.

    ElvenshaeToxic PicklePreciousBodilyFluidsSorcha Ravenlock
  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    Honestly, the biggest problem with vanilla Skyrim combat was the resource pools. They drained far too fast and refilled far too slowly. This basically made Destruction worthless after an hour because you couldn't afford to cast anything damaging and if you didn't finish the fight in 10 sec you were done (I mean, people made it workable when they broke the game wide open for free spells... but that's like people giving themselves +infinity broadswords with the same crafting loop so...)

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  • Praetorian MagePraetorian Mage Registered User regular
    Polaritie wrote: »
    Honestly, the biggest problem with vanilla Skyrim combat was the resource pools. They drained far too fast and refilled far too slowly. This basically made Destruction worthless after an hour because you couldn't afford to cast anything damaging and if you didn't finish the fight in 10 sec you were done (I mean, people made it workable when they broke the game wide open for free spells... but that's like people giving themselves +infinity broadswords with the same crafting loop so...)
    Meanwhile, you only need a single point of stamina to do a full-strength power attack. Eat some vegetable soup and you've got infinite power attacks, shield bashes, and power bashes for twelve minutes.

    Shimshai
  • Dr. ChaosDr. Chaos Post nuclear nuisance Registered User regular
    Tube wrote: »
    I thought skyrim' combat was great
    I've never had a problem with Bethesda's combat systems either.

    Nice, fast and simple. Works well in a 200+ hour game where you want to try to keep a decent pace without getting bogged down in a lot of encounters.

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  • DuffelDuffel jacobkosh Registered User regular
    edited September 2016
    Dr. Chaos wrote: »
    Tube wrote: »
    I thought skyrim' combat was great
    I've never had a problem with Bethesda's combat systems either.

    Nice, fast and simple. Works well in a 200+ hour game where you want to try to keep a decent pace without getting bogged down in a lot of encounters.

    My opinion of Bethesda combat is basically Sick Boy's evaluation of Lou Reed's later albums (NSFW):

    Bethesda combat works, but it feels pretty lacking and simplified compared to other good action RPGs that I've played. Once you get over the rush of finding a cool new weapon or whatever, it's hard to ignore that you're essentially slapping stat bars against each other.

    It's yet to prevent me from enjoying a Bethesda game, though, or even sinking hundreds of hours into one. If I'm really jonesing for a good combat system I'll just play a proper action game.

    Duffel on
  • BionicPenguinBionicPenguin Registered User regular
    I wouldn't call Skyrim's combat great, but it's adequate and can become good with the right mods.

    ElvenshaeSir CarcassPLA
  • TubeTube Registered User admin
    I never use mods and I always enjoy it. It's a game where I will engage in combat for fun. It's also a game in which I have the option of engaging with combat in a number of ways, each of which are valid. I can play board and sword, using bashes and CCs and knocking people down. I can swing a big fucking hammer for AOE damage. I can replace the shield with one of any number of cc spells (turn undead, fear, frenzy). I can put a spell in either hand to CC and damage. I can wear huge armour and tank everything, or wear none and dodge them or rely on my shield and magic. I can attack from stealth with a bow, or daggers, or even spells. I can sit in the dark and force my enemies to kill each other. I can summon mighty demons or elementals to do my bidding. I can raise the corpses of my enemies to fight on my side. I can turn into a werewolf and pop their heads. I can turn into a vampire lord and telekinetically throw them off a cliff. About the one thing that isn't effective is "destruction, all destruction and nothing but destruction", but then, no other skill in the game works completely in isolation either.

    I know everything has to be Dark Souls right now or it's totally unacceptable, but this idea of "but you can just swing a hammer if you want to so it sucks!" doesn't address the idea that if they excessively limit "you can just swing a hammer if you want to" they're also limiting my ability to express my character through combat. I don't want Skyrim to be Dark Souls, any more than I want Dark Souls to be Skyrim. It would be crappy at it, and it is excellent at being Skyrim.

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  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    edited September 2016
    It's more that "just swinging a hammer" isn't interesting in a vacuum when it is the only really effective strategy and the rest of the mechanics are not fleshed out or polished enough to be interesting to use.

    I mean you can swing hammers in dark souls too. And in the witcher (ok some limit to your ability to use hammers).

    There is nothing suggesting that the elder scrolls cannot have interesting combat mechanics while retaining the various skills and their effects. Indeed those skills and effects should make it easier to design a fun combat system that is unique and fun.

    Heavy armor could lose dodging but gain a bull rush. Dodging could be in the game. Light weapons could gain a counter attack mechanism, dual weapons could allow attacks on multiple enemies at once, or feints. Spells could trip and set zones. They could provide tactical effects as well as direct damage. They could interact with the environment....'they could modify the environment and then interact with it. You could emulate the all powerful boot from HOMM:Dark Messiah by giving you things to knock into.

    You could have skills modify the effectiveness and availability of all these things based on skills and perks. I mean the witcher 3 has crafting there is nothing suggesting that it could not have gone with skills and Skyrim style crafting.

    You could have thrown potions or potions broken in the environment providing the effect they normally would.

    there could be platforming and climbing and conversation could be like the deus ex minigame and you could have companions and give them reasonable orders and maybe send them off to take care of tasks on their own ane you could have thrown weapons and you could have sneaking that didn't make you look like the creep and and and and

    And OK true Skyrim came out before a lot of this was really around. But that doesn't mean it can't have it and still let you swing your hammer if you want. It's no longer the gold standard of open world games because well we know things can be better.

    Goumindong on
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    BionicPenguinSir CarcassElendil
  • BionicPenguinBionicPenguin Registered User regular
    edited September 2016
    I want different ways to swing that hammer. I mean, look at Chivalry. That combat system isn't complex, but you have enough options to keep it interesting. Do you go for the vertical swing that's more likely to hit the head, but can be sidestepped? Maybe you expected to miss and follow it up with a thrust, which is quicker than usual after a vertical swing. Perhaps your opponent likes to block, so you feint first before smashing his skull in. I'm fine with the combat in Skyrim (it's my favourite game), but I'd like more.

    BionicPenguin on
    Elvenshae
  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    I'm lucky in that I enjoy just exploring the world and murdering wildlife in the Bethesda games, and that's one area where they're pretty damn good. Their writing is bad, though it's getting somewhat better, and the various combat and spell mechanics are getting simpler and simpler as the series goes on.

    I wish that Bethesda and Obsidian had a better relationship. Getting FO:3 and then FO:NV just a couple years later was quite nice, and I'd be loving it if they had decided to keep that going forward, so we'd have had an Obsidian designed Eldar Scroll game based on the Skyrim engine.

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  • TubeTube Registered User admin
    Goumindong wrote: »
    It's more that "just swinging a hammer" isn't interesting in a vacuum when it is the only really effective strategy and the rest of the mechanics are not fleshed out or polished enough to be interesting to use.

    Yeah but the thing is no it isn't and yes they are?

    PLAMcHoger
  • GrebnuGrebnu Registered User regular
    This Dark Souls is the best ever and very game has to be like it -narrative has to stop.

    ES combat is fine for a game where you can play hundreds and hundreds of hours. After a while combat becomes just a task you need to do to move to another part of the world. It is in no way the defining characteristic of the series. It is just a tool

    Action games can have complex combat, but keep that away from my ES. Even Chivalry is not suitable at all (and to be honest, it is quite janky and works only part of the time, very fun tho when it works).

    Action combat things suit for a console game, but for me Elder Scrolls will always be a PC game first and foremost. I much prefer stats and RPG mechanics, and those are dying from ES series. That fills me with fear.

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  • Toxic PickleToxic Pickle Thash grape! Registered User regular
    I've heard the line of 'combat isn't the point!' about RPGs since forever, and I've always been in firm disagreement. If there is going to be combat in an RPG, then that combat should be fun and engaging and no one should make excuses if it isn't. This is not to say I think Skyrim's combat is bad, but more that I don't get people who argue that it shouldn't get better.

    It's pretty apparent that Bethesda is leaning more towards an action focus in their open-world RPGs, and in that vein the combat is going to matter even more. I personally wouldn't say that ES VI needs Dark Souls or Chivalry combat, but what exactly is wrong with using those examples to spice things up a bit? My personal taste when modding Skyrim's combat is making it quick and decisive; battles (especially with mooks) are over quickly, and boss battles get a bit more drawn out but still don't boil down to a drawn-out war of attrition. I try to balance my game so that magic matters and can actually be used without completely breaking the rule set, and stealth is viable without being completely broken. This takes lots of mods.

    In Fallout 4, I haven't felt the need at all to try and mod the combat too much, because for the most part Bethesda seems to have gotten the message and made battles pretty much how I like them (other than on Very Hard and the old Survival... they still have no ability to scale difficulties). This gives me lots of hope for the next Elder Scrolls game, but still worry that they aren't going to try and evolve it enough.

    BionicPenguinElvenshae
  • PLAPLA The process.Registered User regular
    There's a lot of fun things to use in Skyrim. It's gonna be lame if you hold down a button to subtract health-points instead of pushing people off mountains.

  • BionicPenguinBionicPenguin Registered User regular
    Looks like mods won't be coming to the PS4 version of the Skyrim remaster (or Fallout 4). It sounds like Bethesda isn't willing to filter mods the way Sony would like.

  • BrodyBrody The Watch The First ShoreRegistered User regular
    I'm not saying that ESVI needs to avoid better combat. I'm saying that I would rather they spend their resources building the deep and complicated worlds they used to instead of devoting resources into slightly more realistic combat. I get that enjoyment is subjective, but MW combat is fine. I literally never realized it was dice rolls behind the scenes, because I didn't care. I assumed it and Skyrim were the same thing, because combat is how I get past the things in the way, not the reason why I play the game.

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  • AistanAistan Tiny Bat Registered User regular
    Of anything to improve I think the magic combat is probably more important to work on than melee. Melee you have blocks and bashes and normal attacks and heavy attacks and sprinting heavy attacks... maybe it's not to a level of Mount and Blade or Chivalry but it works fine. Magic you just hold the button down while aiming at a person and hope they fall over before they reach you. Or press the button and hope your projectile hits the person.

    Elvenshae
  • baudattitudebaudattitude Registered User regular
    I quite liked Skyrim's combat. I've played all the Souls games and love them to death, but that combat in every game would get oppressive pretty quickly - especially if it starts relying on things like parrying, which I was only ever able to pull off in Bloodborne and then only about half of the time. Was never able to party an enemy attack in any of the other four games, but it wasn't REQUIRED so they were playable.

    The worst-case scenario would be something like Mount and Blade, which has a combat scheme that is loved by its devoted fans but put me off about 10 minutes into the tutorial.

  • Lucid_SeraphLucid_Seraph TealDeer MarylandRegistered User regular
    To be honest, I'd prefer magic be more focused on utility spells and less on combat spells. Like... again, Morrowind. Could you break the SHIT out of utility spells? Yes. But at the same time, magic in Morrowind felt interesting and useful beyond "another way to hit that guy" which meant I was more likely to use it.

    Like I mean... seriously, combat magic is just "Another way to hit that guy." If you want regular weapons to stay relevant, you can't make it better than weapons, but that just means people are still more likely to just be like "idk I hit it with my axe / a bow" because it's simpler.

    Skyrim DID have some excellent utility spells that fit this paradigm. Like...

    In my mind, good Skyrim spells, and why:

    1. Runes. More than just "hit that guy," runes provided area control and let you control the battlefield BEFORE a fight.
    2. Summons / necromancy. Summons / necromancy put an extra man on the field to run interference and provide distraction. They're more than "idk hit that guy." In fact, early summons aren't even GOOD at hitting that guy, they're mostly there to draw fire from you.
    3. Muffle & Invisibility. Synergizes well with Runes and Summons, incidentally!

    And... that was kinda it. But still, you get the idea of what I personally find useful or interesting. I didn't use combat magic in Morrowind either; everything I used was stuff like "move faster / quieter / fly / get people off my tail."

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  • BionicPenguinBionicPenguin Registered User regular
    Ideally, any combat system will have a low skill floor and a high skill ceiling. If someone wants to run in and spam attacks on a low difficulty, it should work, but higher difficulties should require more finesse. Vanilla Skyrim gets the first part, but not the second.

    ElvenshaePLAL Ron HowardDuffelSorcha Ravenlock
  • RoyceSraphimRoyceSraphim Registered User regular
    Ah skyrim, walking through a blizzard and hearing a draghr use a thuum shout echo over the land.

    More Wandering draghr would have made certain regions even more terrifying, especially if they only appeared in bad weather.

    Polaritie
  • PLAPLA The process.Registered User regular
    Fire is on paper kind of worse than Frost, because the burn-damage is actually rather small for most spells, and it isn't really enough to rival stamina-damage equal to health-damage and 0.5 speed together. That's twice as much time to shoot something before it catches up. Ice Storm also ignores walls like a cheater.

    But in practice, the things you want to hurt tend to resist Frost and/or be weak to Fire. And Fire can explode red barrels. And there are more quest-objectives that can be activated with Fire than with Frost.

  • Praetorian MagePraetorian Mage Registered User regular
    edited September 2016
    Goumindong wrote: »
    conversation could be like the deus ex minigame
    Let's not go too far in taking ideas from other games. I don't think I'd like that one very much. I'm fine with a traditional RPG dialogue system.

    Praetorian Mage on
  • PLAPLA The process.Registered User regular
  • Praetorian MagePraetorian Mage Registered User regular
    edited September 2016
    daveNYC wrote: »
    I'm lucky in that I enjoy just exploring the world and murdering wildlife in the Bethesda games, and that's one area where they're pretty damn good. Their writing is bad, though it's getting somewhat better, and the various combat and spell mechanics are getting simpler and simpler as the series goes on.

    I wish that Bethesda and Obsidian had a better relationship. Getting FO:3 and then FO:NV just a couple years later was quite nice, and I'd be loving it if they had decided to keep that going forward, so we'd have had an Obsidian designed Eldar Scroll game based on the Skyrim engine.
    Bethesda have a greater sense of ownership over Elder Scrolls than they do for Fallout. They're probably not going to let anyone else make an NV equivalent for TES, and to be honest, I wouldn't want them to. I'm not a huge fan of the TES world. What I'd like to see is other TES-style games (with all the modding and everything) in their own worlds. I want more Enderals (in the sense that they're TES clones in other worlds, not in the sense that they should all have the same kind of mechanics and dark, depressing tone as Enderal apparently has).


    Looks like mods won't be coming to the PS4 version of the Skyrim remaster (or Fallout 4). It sounds like Bethesda isn't willing to filter mods the way Sony would like.
    Bethesda aren't willing to do any actual work on matters like that.


    Aistan wrote: »
    Of anything to improve I think the magic combat is probably more important to work on than melee. Melee you have blocks and bashes and normal attacks and heavy attacks and sprinting heavy attacks... maybe it's not to a level of Mount and Blade or Chivalry but it works fine. Magic you just hold the button down while aiming at a person and hope they fall over before they reach you. Or press the button and hope your projectile hits the person.
    Aside from having more interesting spells (e.g. AoE bursts that radiate out from you, meteors you drop from the sky, etc.) or having more elemental effects similar to how you can light oil puddles in Skyrim, I'm not sure what else they could do without adding awkward minigames or something. I thought Skyrim had some interesting potential in its system. There are some new variables that they could have done some creative things with - charged spells vs. instant spells, spells that only need one hand vs. two hands, varying charging times for different spells, projectiles vs "spray" spells - but they didn't really do much with them.



    To be honest, I'd prefer magic be more focused on utility spells and less on combat spells.
    I'm exactly the opposite. I like playing a destruction mage, and I'm tired of direct damage casters being underappreciated in RPGs. Skyrim vanilla wasn't good for destruction mages either, but that was more of an accident that could have been fixed with a simple patch to make damage scale with skill. I don't want them to do it deliberately. If the game is going to support players who want to play a simple warrior who stabs things with his sword, I don't see why it shouldn't also support a player who wants to play a mage who's really good at blowing things up.

    Like I mean... seriously, combat magic is just "Another way to hit that guy."
    You could say the same thing about weapons other than swords. Should we just remove all weapons except one-handed swords and bows because maces, daggers, greatswords, crossbows, and all the others are just "other ways to hit that guy"?



    I can't say much about the Dark Souls talk because I haven't played Dark Souls, so I can't really have an opinion on it either way. Based on what I have seen of Dark Souls, though, my instinct is to say I don't want TES to emulate it.


    Praetorian Mage on
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  • PLAPLA The process.Registered User regular
  • BionicPenguinBionicPenguin Registered User regular
    Dark Souls keeps getting brought up, but I don't think anyone has actually said they want TES combat to be like that. I know that would certainly be a big negative for me.

  • PLAPLA The process.Registered User regular
    The Elder Scrolls has some of the funnest stupid abstract Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell-magic in videogames. Dragon's Dogma probably has the most fun hitting things with big things magic. Mass Effect and Dragon Age are pretty decent at spell-combos. The Last Story had fantastic use of elemental ground-markers. Phantom Brave is a good fengshui-simulator and some dumb medium stuff. I think Wild Arms XF had some solid geomancy, but otherwise magic wasn't as important as martial logistics. Final Fantasy Tactics has some dumb spellcasters, too. Necromancy rarely gets to stretch its legs outside of longer term, turnbased strategy like HoM&M or AoW. Dark Souls has the most flavour-text and the spookiest/coziest themes.
    Things like Okami and Lost Magic have more fun spell-inputs than pressing a nerd-button on your nerd-controller, though.

    ElvenshaeL Ron Howard
  • DarmakDarmak RAGE vympyvvhyc vyctyvyRegistered User regular
    PLA wrote: »
    The Elder Scrolls has some of the funnest stupid abstract Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell-magic in videogames. Dragon's Dogma probably has the most fun hitting things with big things magic. Mass Effect and Dragon Age are pretty decent at spell-combos. The Last Story had fantastic use of elemental ground-markers. Phantom Brave is a good fengshui-simulator and some dumb medium stuff. I think Wild Arms XF had some solid geomancy, but otherwise magic wasn't as important as martial logistics. Final Fantasy Tactics has some dumb spellcasters, too. Necromancy rarely gets to stretch its legs outside of longer term, turnbased strategy like HoM&M or AoW. Dark Souls has the most flavour-text and the spookiest/coziest themes.
    Things like Okami and Lost Magic have more fun spell-inputs than pressing a nerd-button on your nerd-controller, though.

    Magicka has some pretty baller spellcasting and combining in it

    JtgVX0H.png
    ElvenshaePLAUnluckyRchanen
  • PLAPLA The process.Registered User regular
    Legend of Kartia was an interesting Gol'emUp, where you collected and spent different materials with different properties to make your little minion-monsters. The same materials were spent as reagents for other spells. Mostly silk, mithril and yggdrasil-wood, I think.
    In Atelier Iris, you carried a bunch of essences (seven?) in tubes, lined up all neat on your inventory-screen, and used them to alchemise all sorts of items in or out of battle. You got more of the stuff by disintegrating rocks and other garbage in the environment.

    Powder and such PC-roguelikes go nuts with DnD-style turning walls into meat to solve both hunger and progression, though. I think there was a lot of possession, bodyswapping and mutation you could chain into dumb ultimate lifeforms. And in one of those games, I dug a hole, filled it with water, tossed some hammer into it, froze the water, and got an ice-hammer. Another time I was immune to fire and used a sun-spell to melt most of the dungeon into lava. One time I could make trees grow anywhere, so I chopped them down to make arrows, climbed them to shoot arrows better, lit them on fire to dissuade things from coming closer, and turned some into helpful trents.

    Elvenshae
  • CantidoCantido Registered User regular
    edited September 2016
    Darmak wrote: »
    PLA wrote: »
    The Elder Scrolls has some of the funnest stupid abstract Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell-magic in videogames. Dragon's Dogma probably has the most fun hitting things with big things magic. Mass Effect and Dragon Age are pretty decent at spell-combos. The Last Story had fantastic use of elemental ground-markers. Phantom Brave is a good fengshui-simulator and some dumb medium stuff. I think Wild Arms XF had some solid geomancy, but otherwise magic wasn't as important as martial logistics. Final Fantasy Tactics has some dumb spellcasters, too. Necromancy rarely gets to stretch its legs outside of longer term, turnbased strategy like HoM&M or AoW. Dark Souls has the most flavour-text and the spookiest/coziest themes.
    Things like Okami and Lost Magic have more fun spell-inputs than pressing a nerd-button on your nerd-controller, though.

    Magicka has some pretty baller spellcasting and combining in it

    I blew up the first boss, and myself, by accidentally creating landmines. I won because it reached the Stage Clear screen before I hit the ground.

    But I stopped playing around the area with those goat enemies because they just had too much damn health.

    Cantido on
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  • DarmakDarmak RAGE vympyvvhyc vyctyvyRegistered User regular
    Cantido wrote: »
    Darmak wrote: »
    PLA wrote: »
    The Elder Scrolls has some of the funnest stupid abstract Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell-magic in videogames. Dragon's Dogma probably has the most fun hitting things with big things magic. Mass Effect and Dragon Age are pretty decent at spell-combos. The Last Story had fantastic use of elemental ground-markers. Phantom Brave is a good fengshui-simulator and some dumb medium stuff. I think Wild Arms XF had some solid geomancy, but otherwise magic wasn't as important as martial logistics. Final Fantasy Tactics has some dumb spellcasters, too. Necromancy rarely gets to stretch its legs outside of longer term, turnbased strategy like HoM&M or AoW. Dark Souls has the most flavour-text and the spookiest/coziest themes.
    Things like Okami and Lost Magic have more fun spell-inputs than pressing a nerd-button on your nerd-controller, though.

    Magicka has some pretty baller spellcasting and combining in it

    I blew up the first boss, and myself, by accidentally creating landmines. I won because it reached the Stage Clear screen before I hit the ground.

    But I stopped playing around the area with those goat enemies because they just had too much damn health.

    The game is great fun with friends. Pure fucking chaos, with lots of "accidental" teamkilling, especially if you can get 4 players. One of my friends was convinced the lightning bolt spell was the greatest shit ever, so he'd make a dome and spam it over and over until the entire screen was cleared. Of everything, including the other players. :lol:

    JtgVX0H.png
  • RoyceSraphimRoyceSraphim Registered User regular
    I remember Guild Wars' necromancers being a choice between a debuff set of skills or a legion of undead set of skills (minion masters). Any other MMO's do that?

    If I really had a complaint about magic in skyrim (if I used it often) it would be the lack of spell creation on the level last seen in morowind.

  • DarmakDarmak RAGE vympyvvhyc vyctyvyRegistered User regular
    I remember Guild Wars' necromancers being a choice between a debuff set of skills or a legion of undead set of skills (minion masters). Any other MMO's do that?

    If I really had a complaint about magic in skyrim (if I used it often) it would be the lack of spell creation on the level last seen in morowind.

    Actually for necros it was curses (debuffs and dots), blood magic (life-stealing), and minion master. All of the classes had around 3 different ways to play them, like monks could be healing, protection (stop damage before it occurs), or smite (damage dealing with debuff removal, if I remember correctly)

    JtgVX0H.png
    PLA
  • KiplingKipling Registered User regular
    For Skyrim hack and slash, I just wish the power attacks were different so an Elven sword didn't feel like a slightly faster Elven axe. I never really had that many issues with it, because I played the two handed swordsman which decapitated everyone.

    I'm playing Enderal just to see how it is. The intro is long, but the powers are entertaining. It has a ridiculous assassin power which teleports you behind a target so you can stealth dagger them to death (or pickpocket, I guess). I may just cheat in level up points to see what the other styles are like.

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  • PLAPLA The process.Registered User regular
    I always thought this guy looks rad.

    OB-class-Sorcerer.jpg

    Polaritie
  • korodullinkorodullin What. SCRegistered User regular
    I absolutely love Dark Souls, especially its combat, and especially in Dark Souls 3.

    However.

    If I had to engage in taxing Dark Souls-level combat at all times for thousands of mook enemies getting from point A to point B, then back again, then to points C, D, etc., I'd chuck the game and tell the devs to go fuck themselves.

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  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    Sure but witcher has a lot of "that" and it goes just fine really.

    wbBv3fj.png
  • RoyceSraphimRoyceSraphim Registered User regular
    Working my way through dragon born. Books, so many books, so much atmophere! Honestly, after months of dwermer, Nord, or cave dungeons, seeing .....ALL THIS.....is freaking incredible.

This discussion has been closed.