Ok so at level 6 then you basically have infinite health minus burst.
And your q does %health. And with SV you really have infinite health.
Guys ban Mundo.
Nomicon.
Mundo is tanky yes, but he doesn't do all that much damage.
Just build a nomicon if you see him and he just becomes a worthless sputtering champion on urf. galio is much stronger than mundo, tankier, and heals himself to crazy levels with a non-ult skill.
If you are up against any self crazy self healing champion like mundo or galio, you should be building a nomicon.
Do you know who else is crazy fun in urf? AP Shen, 3k shields for allies, 1k shield for yourself that refreshes every 2 seconds. Start lich-bane then build a dcap, then LE. 2 points in w, 1 point in q, max R-E-W-Q. Lich bane's ICD is lower on urf so you will get a proc of nearly every ability.
only 5 games but still. I never would have realized that.
Why is your average CS so much higher on Caitlyn than it is on any other champion?
(maybe figuring that out would provide insight into gameplay patterns leading to higher cs for you. Or maybe you had one 70 minute 450 cs game; who knows...)
High CS isn't a useful indicator by itself, because you need to divide that by total game time minus the 2 minutes it takes for the first wave to spawn and get to lane.
Expanding on this:
There are 2 CS skills you as a player need to learn.
1) Last hitting for the first 15~ minutes of a game
2) Managing minion pull/push in sidelanes and making sure you or someone else on your team picks up the CS before it hits your tower.
Snake in LPL is running double smite with Shyvanna top building cinderhulk.
I'm surprised this hasn't happened more. "Oh we'll just lock out these great jungle items that would be OP in lane behind taking smite." Players - "Well, Smite/Flash in lane it is." ~Murders everyone~
I was very happy to see cinderhulk on a toplaner. Been thinking about that forever and it was great to see it used competitively.
Sev: Your gameplay is the most heavily yomi based around. Usually you look for characters that allow you to force guessing situations for big dmg. Even if the guess is mathematically nowhere near in your favor lol. You're happiest when you have either a 50/50, 33/33/33 or even a 75/25 situation to go crazy with. And you will take big risks to force those situations to come up.
only 5 games but still. I never would have realized that.
Why is your average CS so much higher on Caitlyn than it is on any other champion?
(maybe figuring that out would provide insight into gameplay patterns leading to higher cs for you. Or maybe you had one 70 minute 450 cs game; who knows...)
hmm I never looked at that. it's an interesting outlier but what I find even more interesting is that I lost all of those games.
even more telling is that if I sort by loss percentage it seems that I lose games when I have high CS.
It would seem that I can't CS well and focus objectives. So when i'm actively focusing objectives and engagements my CS falls off sharply.
This is probably why i've had more success in mid/support recently.
Since Shyvana ult can some what replace Flash as an emergency movement option, is this why the Cinderhulk works for her in toplane? If so, is Sion ult to escape instead of flash an equivalent to Shyvana?
So is the assassin jungler meta pretty much dead at this point?
Sev: Your gameplay is the most heavily yomi based around. Usually you look for characters that allow you to force guessing situations for big dmg. Even if the guess is mathematically nowhere near in your favor lol. You're happiest when you have either a 50/50, 33/33/33 or even a 75/25 situation to go crazy with. And you will take big risks to force those situations to come up.
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AuralynxDarkness is a perspectiveWatching the ego workRegistered Userregular
Since Shyvana ult can some what replace Flash as an emergency movement option, is this why the Cinderhulk works for her in toplane? If so, is Sion ult to escape instead of flash an equivalent to Shyvana?
So is the assassin jungler meta pretty much dead at this point?
Cinderhulk works with Shyvana in particular mostly because a) she comes with huge piles of inherent defensive stats, b) she comes with a short-cooldown movespeed buff and a fairly short-cooldown mobility ultimate and c) she doesn't get any meaningful personal utility out of Ignite or Exhaust a lot of the time. You may as well double down on being super tough instead.
Are assassin junglers no longer viable due to Cinderhulk? I barely see them any more.
Sev: Your gameplay is the most heavily yomi based around. Usually you look for characters that allow you to force guessing situations for big dmg. Even if the guess is mathematically nowhere near in your favor lol. You're happiest when you have either a 50/50, 33/33/33 or even a 75/25 situation to go crazy with. And you will take big risks to force those situations to come up.
less of an issue now that you have to give up a summoner skill slot for smite to buy jungle items
You really are not giving up your ignite/teleport for all that much because the jungle item upgrades your smite to something useful in combat.
So you don't take ignite, but you take the smite upgrade that lets you slow an enemy and do true damage to them, or 20% reduction in damage from that champion.
You lose some early objective control (teleport) for stronger late game objective control (2x smite).
+1
facetiousa wit so dryit shits sandRegistered Userregular
Shyv's other summoner was teleport, so yes she did not take flash. With Hecarim top not taking flash either this is definitely something that they'll need to address.
"I am not young enough to know everything." - Oscar Wilde
Shyv's other summoner was teleport, so yes she did not take flash. With Hecarim top not taking flash either this is definitely something that they'll need to address.
Champions not running flash is fine.
But yeah, when jungle items show up in lane you done goofed.
Like, they could have just buffed the tanky junglers a little in their damage to jungle stuff (like they did for Burnout - Shyvana is one of the fastest junglers out there)
facetiousa wit so dryit shits sandRegistered Userregular
I just meant in the sense that part of the reasoning behind buffing smite is that in theory flash is an auto-pick, but with more and more champions dropping flash smite becomes even stronger.
"I am not young enough to know everything." - Oscar Wilde
Since Shyvana ult can some what replace Flash as an emergency movement option, is this why the Cinderhulk works for her in toplane? If so, is Sion ult to escape instead of flash an equivalent to Shyvana?
So is the assassin jungler meta pretty much dead at this point?
Cinderhulk works with Shyvana in particular mostly because a) she comes with huge piles of inherent defensive stats, b) she comes with a short-cooldown movespeed buff and a fairly short-cooldown mobility ultimate and c) she doesn't get any meaningful personal utility out of Ignite or Exhaust a lot of the time. You may as well double down on being super tough instead.
Sion's W passive takes some real advantage of cinderhulk though. So much bonus hp.
Sev: Your gameplay is the most heavily yomi based around. Usually you look for characters that allow you to force guessing situations for big dmg. Even if the guess is mathematically nowhere near in your favor lol. You're happiest when you have either a 50/50, 33/33/33 or even a 75/25 situation to go crazy with. And you will take big risks to force those situations to come up.
0
AuralynxDarkness is a perspectiveWatching the ego workRegistered Userregular
Are assassin junglers no longer viable due to Cinderhulk? I barely see them any more.
I am pretty sure we are a couple patches from seeing a fair amount more of Nocturne, Lee, and other guys who split the difference fairly well depending on itemization against squishy top picks, at least in the pros.
Since Shyvana ult can some what replace Flash as an emergency movement option, is this why the Cinderhulk works for her in toplane? If so, is Sion ult to escape instead of flash an equivalent to Shyvana?
So is the assassin jungler meta pretty much dead at this point?
Cinderhulk works with Shyvana in particular mostly because a) she comes with huge piles of inherent defensive stats, b) she comes with a short-cooldown movespeed buff and a fairly short-cooldown mobility ultimate and c) she doesn't get any meaningful personal utility out of Ignite or Exhaust a lot of the time. You may as well double down on being super tough instead.
Sion's W passive takes some real advantage of cinderhulk though. So much bonus hp.
It does, but he relies enormously on bullying and waveclear to get ahead and his escape options are worse. Shyvana just tries not to waste being enormously frontloaded on defensive stats. I'm not saying Chilling / Challenging Cinderhulk Sion at top would be bad, just that Shyvana is giving up almost nothing without flash.
Generally seeing Flash be non-mandatory in a few cases is healthy, but it's iffy when it's being dropped for Smitems.
Are assassin junglers no longer viable due to Cinderhulk? I barely see them any more.
I am pretty sure we are a couple patches from seeing a fair amount more of Nocturne, Lee, and other guys who split the difference fairly well depending on itemization against squishy top picks, at least in the pros.
Since Shyvana ult can some what replace Flash as an emergency movement option, is this why the Cinderhulk works for her in toplane? If so, is Sion ult to escape instead of flash an equivalent to Shyvana?
So is the assassin jungler meta pretty much dead at this point?
Cinderhulk works with Shyvana in particular mostly because a) she comes with huge piles of inherent defensive stats, b) she comes with a short-cooldown movespeed buff and a fairly short-cooldown mobility ultimate and c) she doesn't get any meaningful personal utility out of Ignite or Exhaust a lot of the time. You may as well double down on being super tough instead.
Sion's W passive takes some real advantage of cinderhulk though. So much bonus hp.
It does, but he relies enormously on bullying and waveclear to get ahead and his escape options are worse. Shyvana just tries not to waste being enormously frontloaded on defensive stats. I'm not saying Chilling / Challenging Cinderhulk Sion at top would be bad, just that Shyvana is giving up almost nothing without flash.
Generally seeing Flash be non-mandatory in a few cases is healthy, but it's iffy when it's being dropped for Smitems.
I understand now. Thanks. I now have to resist talking myself into picking up Shyv to try out. I have so many tanks already lol.
Sev: Your gameplay is the most heavily yomi based around. Usually you look for characters that allow you to force guessing situations for big dmg. Even if the guess is mathematically nowhere near in your favor lol. You're happiest when you have either a 50/50, 33/33/33 or even a 75/25 situation to go crazy with. And you will take big risks to force those situations to come up.
Sev: Your gameplay is the most heavily yomi based around. Usually you look for characters that allow you to force guessing situations for big dmg. Even if the guess is mathematically nowhere near in your favor lol. You're happiest when you have either a 50/50, 33/33/33 or even a 75/25 situation to go crazy with. And you will take big risks to force those situations to come up.
Cinderhulk probably needs the devourer treatment. I'm not sure why Riot is so focused on having jungle income be super low but jungle items be super gold efficient, because it always ends up with jungle items going to laners (Blue Ezreal).
In defense of the commentary, CLG did most of the work.... Liquid just withstood, not really withstand they were kinda losing, the split push and then kicked CLG in the teeth when CLG gave them the chance to. The whole game was CLGs to win, up until the point when TF decided to dive.
Mr.Sunshine on
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facetiousa wit so dryit shits sandRegistered Userregular
Liquid adopting the Juggermaw strategy is so smart.
"Communication issues with Piglet? Okay let's just give him a billion shields and attack speed and let him go nuts."
"I am not young enough to know everything." - Oscar Wilde
Cinderhulk probably needs the devourer treatment. I'm not sure why Riot is so focused on having jungle income be super low but jungle items be super gold efficient, because it always ends up with jungle items going to laners (Blue Ezreal).
Because there has to be a balance where there is enough gold in the jungle to convince one member of the team to dedicate his time acquiring it, and in doing so gain the opportunity to apply global pressure... without there being enough gold in there that he can beat a solo laner one on one. You also can't have too much gold in the jungle because then the laners are just going to want to get in on that. So a lower gold jungle that has super gold efficient items for junglers is season 5's solution.
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pyromaniac221this just might bean interestin YTRegistered Userregular
you mean to tell me that CLG is choking in the playoffs
Cinderhulk probably needs the devourer treatment. I'm not sure why Riot is so focused on having jungle income be super low but jungle items be super gold efficient, because it always ends up with jungle items going to laners (Blue Ezreal).
Because there has to be a balance where there is enough gold in the jungle to convince one member of the team to dedicate his time acquiring it, and in doing so gain the opportunity to apply global pressure... without there being enough gold in there that he can beat a solo laner one on one. You also can't have too much gold in the jungle because then the laners are just going to want to get in on that. So a lower gold jungle that has super gold efficient items for junglers is season 5's solution.
And it has worked pretty terribly so far, because it led to a focus on cost-effective timed junglers who could get their early power item and gank hard in order to be relevant (Vi, Lee Sin, J4, Pantheon, Rek Sai). Tank junglers made a huge comeback in large part because Cinderhulk was way overtuned. Not sure how things are going to play out when the item is comparative to the other options.
I recognize the solution of "just add more gold!" doesn't work, because "Master Yi sits in the jungle for 30 minutes then solos your team" isn't fun either.
The last two weeks CLG just looks like a different team. Was it the patch? Because they went from looking immaculate to incredibly sloppy.
No gods or kings, only man.
LoL: BunyipAristocrat
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facetiousa wit so dryit shits sandRegistered Userregular
The patch probably did hurt them, because the tankier meta has led to longer team fights and CLG has always been kinda garbage at team fights.
But it's also just a general 'tightening up' of teams at the end of the season - other teams are coordinating better, making CLG's lack of coordination stand out more starkly.
"I am not young enough to know everything." - Oscar Wilde
Quite the reversal of fortune. Remember #BENCHPIGLET?
Sev: Your gameplay is the most heavily yomi based around. Usually you look for characters that allow you to force guessing situations for big dmg. Even if the guess is mathematically nowhere near in your favor lol. You're happiest when you have either a 50/50, 33/33/33 or even a 75/25 situation to go crazy with. And you will take big risks to force those situations to come up.
Posts
True, but at some point you do tend to fight, whether its to hold a turret or collapsing on a split pusher
SOMETIMES
when there is a massive server wide complication.
There is a "loss prevented" option.
http://www.lolking.net/summoner/na/21374916#ranked-stats
like I have never lost as Ashe
only 5 games but still. I never would have realized that.
Nomicon.
Mundo is tanky yes, but he doesn't do all that much damage.
Just build a nomicon if you see him and he just becomes a worthless sputtering champion on urf. galio is much stronger than mundo, tankier, and heals himself to crazy levels with a non-ult skill.
If you are up against any self crazy self healing champion like mundo or galio, you should be building a nomicon.
Do you know who else is crazy fun in urf? AP Shen, 3k shields for allies, 1k shield for yourself that refreshes every 2 seconds. Start lich-bane then build a dcap, then LE. 2 points in w, 1 point in q, max R-E-W-Q. Lich bane's ICD is lower on urf so you will get a proc of nearly every ability.
Why is your average CS so much higher on Caitlyn than it is on any other champion?
(maybe figuring that out would provide insight into gameplay patterns leading to higher cs for you. Or maybe you had one 70 minute 450 cs game; who knows...)
Expanding on this:
There are 2 CS skills you as a player need to learn.
1) Last hitting for the first 15~ minutes of a game
2) Managing minion pull/push in sidelanes and making sure you or someone else on your team picks up the CS before it hits your tower.
I'm surprised this hasn't happened more. "Oh we'll just lock out these great jungle items that would be OP in lane behind taking smite." Players - "Well, Smite/Flash in lane it is." ~Murders everyone~
hmm I never looked at that. it's an interesting outlier but what I find even more interesting is that I lost all of those games.
even more telling is that if I sort by loss percentage it seems that I lose games when I have high CS.
It would seem that I can't CS well and focus objectives. So when i'm actively focusing objectives and engagements my CS falls off sharply.
This is probably why i've had more success in mid/support recently.
So is the assassin jungler meta pretty much dead at this point?
Cinderhulk works with Shyvana in particular mostly because a) she comes with huge piles of inherent defensive stats, b) she comes with a short-cooldown movespeed buff and a fairly short-cooldown mobility ultimate and c) she doesn't get any meaningful personal utility out of Ignite or Exhaust a lot of the time. You may as well double down on being super tough instead.
and it gives a sunfire passive as opposed to when juggernaut was just tenacity on top of health
and I mean it's not like smite is absolutely useless in lane/teamfights now
Yeah isn't red smite probably good in lane because the smitee gets 20% less damage against you for a few seconds?
You really are not giving up your ignite/teleport for all that much because the jungle item upgrades your smite to something useful in combat.
So you don't take ignite, but you take the smite upgrade that lets you slow an enemy and do true damage to them, or 20% reduction in damage from that champion.
You lose some early objective control (teleport) for stronger late game objective control (2x smite).
Steam: Chagrin LoL: Bonhomie
Even three weeks ago that would have been preposterous.
Steam: Chagrin LoL: Bonhomie
Champions not running flash is fine.
But yeah, when jungle items show up in lane you done goofed.
Like, they could have just buffed the tanky junglers a little in their damage to jungle stuff (like they did for Burnout - Shyvana is one of the fastest junglers out there)
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Steam: Chagrin LoL: Bonhomie
Sion's W passive takes some real advantage of cinderhulk though. So much bonus hp.
I am pretty sure we are a couple patches from seeing a fair amount more of Nocturne, Lee, and other guys who split the difference fairly well depending on itemization against squishy top picks, at least in the pros.
It does, but he relies enormously on bullying and waveclear to get ahead and his escape options are worse. Shyvana just tries not to waste being enormously frontloaded on defensive stats. I'm not saying Chilling / Challenging Cinderhulk Sion at top would be bad, just that Shyvana is giving up almost nothing without flash.
Generally seeing Flash be non-mandatory in a few cases is healthy, but it's iffy when it's being dropped for Smitems.
I understand now. Thanks. I now have to resist talking myself into picking up Shyv to try out. I have so many tanks already lol.
LoL: BunyipAristocrat
In defense of the commentary, CLG did most of the work.... Liquid just withstood, not really withstand they were kinda losing, the split push and then kicked CLG in the teeth when CLG gave them the chance to. The whole game was CLGs to win, up until the point when TF decided to dive.
"Communication issues with Piglet? Okay let's just give him a billion shields and attack speed and let him go nuts."
Steam: Chagrin LoL: Bonhomie
Because there has to be a balance where there is enough gold in the jungle to convince one member of the team to dedicate his time acquiring it, and in doing so gain the opportunity to apply global pressure... without there being enough gold in there that he can beat a solo laner one on one. You also can't have too much gold in the jungle because then the laners are just going to want to get in on that. So a lower gold jungle that has super gold efficient items for junglers is season 5's solution.
And it has worked pretty terribly so far, because it led to a focus on cost-effective timed junglers who could get their early power item and gank hard in order to be relevant (Vi, Lee Sin, J4, Pantheon, Rek Sai). Tank junglers made a huge comeback in large part because Cinderhulk was way overtuned. Not sure how things are going to play out when the item is comparative to the other options.
I recognize the solution of "just add more gold!" doesn't work, because "Master Yi sits in the jungle for 30 minutes then solos your team" isn't fun either.
Its not CLG's fault. The prophecy must always be fulfilled.
LoL: BunyipAristocrat
But it's also just a general 'tightening up' of teams at the end of the season - other teams are coordinating better, making CLG's lack of coordination stand out more starkly.
Steam: Chagrin LoL: Bonhomie