Also, apparently the NCAA lawyers made the "competitive balance" argument. When everyone knows that your football championship may as well be named the Alabama Invitational, that argument may not hold the weight you think.
Did lead to the hilariously out of touch comment from Thomas that included Nebraska in the list of powers.
Basically, if I was in Mark Emmert's custom Italian loafers, I'd be drawing up plans to set up a glide path to paying players, because I'd realize my shit got done kicked in today.
This has been obviously the way this was going to go for a couple years. Was just a question if the NLRB, SCOTUS, or Congress would get there first.
Unrelated, there was a pretty interesting study of social media followers among players at the Elite Eight, which is one of the more obvious ways that players could monetize if they got NIL rights. Of the top ten players, eight were women, led by Paige Bueckers.
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
Also, apparently the NCAA lawyers made the "competitive balance" argument. When everyone knows that your football championship may as well be named the Alabama Invitational, that argument may not hold the weight you think.
Did lead to the hilariously out of touch comment from Thomas that included Nebraska in the list of powers.
Thomas is a Nebraska supporter, he just knows Scott Frost Day is just around the corner.
Also, apparently the NCAA lawyers made the "competitive balance" argument. When everyone knows that your football championship may as well be named the Alabama Invitational, that argument may not hold the weight you think.
Did lead to the hilariously out of touch comment from Thomas that included Nebraska in the list of powers.
Thomas is a Nebraska supporter, he just knows Scott Frost Day is just around the corner.
Is that like Bobby Bonilla day where Nebraska gives Frost millions for another year of his contract becoming official despite them making no progress at all since canning Bo Pelini
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ButtersA glass of some milksRegistered Userregular
It would make sense if Thomas hasn't watched football in 25 years which is my suspicion.
So what I’m getting is that the only reason Thomas spoke up was his fandom
And not cause it’s part of the job
Thomas has stated that he feels that oral argument is just theater, and that the primary work of argumentation is done through briefs. Which, well - he's not exactly wrong there.
I also want to say that I am done with the "college athletics are ruining academia" sorts who seem to always pop up in discussions of paying college athletes, trying to argue that the real problem is that college athletics is a business. One, they are pining for a past that doesn't exist, as college sport has been big business since the turn of the 20th century. Second, a lot of their arguments about how college athletics are "ruining" academia don't actually make sense and seem to stem from biases from the academy than any actual issue. Finally, the argument that the real solution to the exploitation of the labor of (heavily minority) college athletes is either giving them the boot or redirecting that exploitation to ends the person feels are more worthwhile is, in a word, "yikes".
Mark Emmert met with the three leaders of the #NotNCAAProperty group (Michigan's Isaiah Livers, Rutgers' Geo Baker, and Iowa's Jordan Bohannon) today. Who insisted that some representatives from women's hoops (Iowa's Caitlin Clark, Michigan's Naz Hillmon and Akienreh Johnson, and Buffalo's Hanna Hall) join the meeting even though Emmert did not want to meet with them. Apparently the NCAA itself does not have to abide by Title IX though the member institutions do, so that was one of the demands they're making. Also a voluntary waiver on NIL rights.
Senators Blumenthal and Booker were also in this meeting.
Separately Nicole Auerbach of The Athletic spoke to two dozen ADs and conference commissioners about Emmert who thinks he needs to go.
Mark Emmert met with the three leaders of the #NotNCAAProperty group (Michigan's Isaiah Livers, Rutgers' Geo Baker, and Iowa's Jordan Bohannon) today. Who insisted that some representatives from women's hoops (Iowa's Caitlin Clark, Michigan's Naz Hillmon and Akienreh Johnson, and Buffalo's Hanna Hall) join the meeting even though Emmert did not want to meet with them. Apparently the NCAA itself does not have to abide by Title IX though the member institutions do, so that was one of the demands they're making. Also a voluntary waiver on NIL rights.
Senators Blumenthal and Booker were also in this meeting.
Separately Nicole Auerbach of The Athletic spoke to two dozen ADs and conference commissioners about Emmert who thinks he needs to go.
To think that Emmett had, "future political aspirations" , post his tenure as NCAA Commish, but his blatant, failing optics 101, with the recent debacle, was icing on the cake that it's been long overdue for him to step down.
The thing is the NCAA President doesn't have a ton of real power, he's just a front man for what the university presidents want. He just sucks at being that front man.
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
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ButtersA glass of some milksRegistered Userregular
The thing is the NCAA President doesn't have a ton of real power, he's just a front man for what the university presidents want. He just sucks at being that front man.
As is any sports league commissioner. Football fans love to hate on Roger Goodell and with good reason, but Goodell is simply the manifestation of the desires of the franchise owners made human. He's paid like a pop star by the NFL because he happily eats most of the shit thrown which should be directed at the owners.
I also want to say that I am done with the "college athletics are ruining academia" sorts who seem to always pop up in discussions of paying college athletes, trying to argue that the real problem is that college athletics is a business. One, they are pining for a past that doesn't exist, as college sport has been big business since the turn of the 20th century. Second, a lot of their arguments about how college athletics are "ruining" academia don't actually make sense and seem to stem from biases from the academy than any actual issue. Finally, the argument that the real solution to the exploitation of the labor of (heavily minority) college athletes is either giving them the boot or redirecting that exploitation to ends the person feels are more worthwhile is, in a word, "yikes".
I think the bolded comes about because it can be pretty insane walking to your decrepit physics department class, that's being held in a janky building buried over at the ass end of campus, and realizing how much money the school shelled out on top of the line athletics facilities this year alone. Also, for anyone who's ever had a class with a "student" athlete from the basketball or football team, it gets really obvious that quite often neither the athletes, or the school are particularly interested these kids getting an education, even at a podunk D1 school where the players have little chance of a professional future.
It's obviously a much more complicated problem, but I suspect many students, especially in the sciences, come out of college with that attitude, because they're only seeing the athletics side of college from far away.
It was nice to see the SC come together to punch down on the NCAA though. The insane coaches salaries alone make it abundantly clear that these colleges are getting crazy return on their free labor. And yes, when these athletes can start being paid, things are in fact going to change, but change is inevitable, and its clearly time that the athletic business gets separated from the academic one.
From the New York Times, we have the story of Hunter Woodhall, an elite runner whose story is Oscar bait, and who told the NCAA to fuck off when they dragged their feet on allowing him to make money:
There has never been another college athlete like Hunter Woodhall.
At the University of Arkansas, he earned all-American status as a sprinter for a highly ranked track team. Woodhall, 22, who was raised in a small Utah town, achieved this as a double amputee. When he was an infant, doctors surgically removed his lower legs, just below the knees. They told his parents that he would never walk.
Instead, wearing sleek prosthetic blades, he became an athlete who could hold his own while racing shoulder to shoulder with some of the fastest runners in the world. In 2017, he earned an N.C.A.A. Division I scholarship, becoming the first double amputee to do so. In March 2020, he anchored Arkansas’s 4x400-meter relay team to a win that helped give the Razorbacks the team title at the Southeastern Conference indoor championships. At the Tokyo Paralympics this summer, he will be a favorite to take home gold in the 400 meters.
Not too bad a story. Even Ellen DeGeneres noticed and put him on her TV show.
We’re heading toward the end of March Madness, where the N.C.A.A. airs self-promotional ads throughout its men's and women’s basketball tournaments via the organization’s $8.8 billion multiyear broadcast deal. Such commercials extol the character of its athletes, a useful trick to quell critics aiming fire at college sports for taking advantage of what is essentially an unpaid work force.
Hunter Woodhall’s story of perseverance would make great television.
But the N.C.A.A. can’t lean on Woodhall. Why? In January, frustrated with the organization’s inability to change with the times, he quit running collegiate track and turned professional. He had worked himself into a position where he no longer needed college sports the way they needed him.
Pretty common story. Katie Ledecky had to quit swimming for Stanford because she has a limited window to capitalize on her talent. When she really wanted to swim for Stanford and would have kept doing so if she could also have made money off her name and image. As have hundreds of other Olympic athletes.
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
Pretty common story. Katie Ledecky had to quit swimming for Stanford because she has a limited window to capitalize on her talent. When she really wanted to swim for Stanford and would have kept doing so if she could also have made money off her name and image. As have hundreds of other Olympic athletes.
This also puts the lie to the "it would only be top marquee players who would get any benefit from NIL rights" argument that gets bandied about.
Pretty common story. Katie Ledecky had to quit swimming for Stanford because she has a limited window to capitalize on her talent. When she really wanted to swim for Stanford and would have kept doing so if she could also have made money off her name and image. As have hundreds of other Olympic athletes.
This also puts the lie to the "it would only be top marquee players who would get any benefit from NIL rights" argument that gets bandied about.
Top football/basketball players only. Since Ledecky is literally the best female distance swimmer in history by an enormous margin.
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
Pretty common story. Katie Ledecky had to quit swimming for Stanford because she has a limited window to capitalize on her talent. When she really wanted to swim for Stanford and would have kept doing so if she could also have made money off her name and image. As have hundreds of other Olympic athletes.
This also puts the lie to the "it would only be top marquee players who would get any benefit from NIL rights" argument that gets bandied about.
Top football/basketball players only. Since Ledecky is literally the best female distance swimmer in history by an enormous margin.
And swimming is cool cause they put that slow-ass yellow line half a pool behind her to literally show that margin
Although it’s not so slow now that all the yellow lines belong to Ledecky
Captain Inertia on
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daveNYCWhy universe hate Waspinator?Registered Userregular
Pretty common story. Katie Ledecky had to quit swimming for Stanford because she has a limited window to capitalize on her talent. When she really wanted to swim for Stanford and would have kept doing so if she could also have made money off her name and image. As have hundreds of other Olympic athletes.
This also puts the lie to the "it would only be top marquee players who would get any benefit from NIL rights" argument that gets bandied about.
Swimming might not be the biggest sport ever, but
She has won five Olympic gold medals and 15 world championship gold medals, the most in history for a female swimmer. She is the world record holder in the women's 400-, 800-, and 1500-meter freestyle (long course). She also holds the fastest-ever times in the women's 500-, 1000-, and 1650-yard freestyle events.
is a hell of a long way from being a backup punter on a .500 team.
Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
Pretty common story. Katie Ledecky had to quit swimming for Stanford because she has a limited window to capitalize on her talent. When she really wanted to swim for Stanford and would have kept doing so if she could also have made money off her name and image. As have hundreds of other Olympic athletes.
This also puts the lie to the "it would only be top marquee players who would get any benefit from NIL rights" argument that gets bandied about.
Swimming might not be the biggest sport ever, but
She has won five Olympic gold medals and 15 world championship gold medals, the most in history for a female swimmer. She is the world record holder in the women's 400-, 800-, and 1500-meter freestyle (long course). She also holds the fastest-ever times in the women's 500-, 1000-, and 1650-yard freestyle events.
is a hell of a long way from being a backup punter on a .500 team.
And yet look at how our society presents them. The sad, frustrating reality is that college football and basketball players have a social prominence that is a magnitude of order greater than others. That said, just because they don't have the cachet that marquee sport athletes have doesn't mean that their NIL rights are worthless as gets argued by NCAA defenders - as highlighted by Ledecky's own deals.
daveNYCWhy universe hate Waspinator?Registered Userregular
Not that the worth of someone's NIL rights should even be an argument for losing them. That's a given. My NIL is worth roughly zero, at best, but that doesn't mean someone else gets to grab my picture and try and make cash with it. Just that your example of a non-marque player is laughable. Women's swimming might not be the most popular sport ever, but within that sport she's a god among insects. The poor person that came in fifth (distantly) behind her during her Stanford career should have just as many rights to making money as Ledecky. Just don't conflate rights with opportunities.
Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
Not that the worth of someone's NIL rights should even be an argument for losing them. That's a given. My NIL is worth roughly zero, at best, but that doesn't mean someone else gets to grab my picture and try and make cash with it. Just that your example of a non-marque player is laughable. Women's swimming might not be the most popular sport ever, but within that sport she's a god among insects. The poor person that came in fifth (distantly) behind her during her Stanford career should have just as many rights to making money as Ledecky. Just don't conflate rights with opportunities.
When I'm saying "non-marquee player", I mean "athlete not competing in the two 'marquee' college sports of football and basketball." Ledecky is at the pinnacle of her sport and garners attention due to that - but at the same time that attention pales in comparison to Trevor Lawrence, who is in all respects at the start of his career. The marquee sports are different beasts.
At the same time, my point was that the argument that only marquee players would be able to exploit their NIL rights is utter gooseshit, yet it's an argument the NCAA's defenders routinely make. The reality is that while they might not get major deals like those a marquee player, they can easily get smaller deals. Not to mention that it would allow for viral performances to be capitalized on.
Considering most NCAA athletes never turn pro, even if that is an option, even a deal worth only a few thousand can make a big difference. All college athletes should be allowed the opportunity.
Considering most NCAA athletes never turn pro, even if that is an option, even a deal worth only a few thousand can make a big difference. All college athletes should be allowed the opportunity.
Especially when the college is capitalizing on it themselves.
Not that the worth of someone's NIL rights should even be an argument for losing them. That's a given. My NIL is worth roughly zero, at best, but that doesn't mean someone else gets to grab my picture and try and make cash with it. Just that your example of a non-marque player is laughable. Women's swimming might not be the most popular sport ever, but within that sport she's a god among insects. The poor person that came in fifth (distantly) behind her during her Stanford career should have just as many rights to making money as Ledecky. Just don't conflate rights with opportunities.
When I'm saying "non-marquee player", I mean "athlete not competing in the two 'marquee' college sports of football and basketball." Ledecky is at the pinnacle of her sport and garners attention due to that - but at the same time that attention pales in comparison to Trevor Lawrence, who is in all respects at the start of his career. The marquee sports are different beasts.
At the same time, my point was that the argument that only marquee players would be able to exploit their NIL rights is utter gooseshit, yet it's an argument the NCAA's defenders routinely make. The reality is that while they might not get major deals like those a marquee player, they can easily get smaller deals. Not to mention that it would allow for viral performances to be capitalized on.
I'm just saying the Olympic sports get major endorsements. She got 6 years 7 million from a swimwear company once she went pro.
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
olympians used to fall under amateurism for a long time too and it was probably the same jackasses jerking off to the concept of amateur athletes that people under 30 don't even know exists
olympians used to fall under amateurism for a long time too and it was probably the same jackasses jerking off to the concept of amateur athletes that people under 30 don't even know exists
olympians used to fall under amateurism for a long time too and it was probably the same jackasses jerking off to the concept of amateur athletes that people under 30 don't even know exists
It was the 19th century and it was basically an upper class thing. The whole idea of amateurism was that it was just your average landed gentry type doing it in their off time.
olympians used to fall under amateurism for a long time too and it was probably the same jackasses jerking off to the concept of amateur athletes that people under 30 don't even know exists
It was the 19th century and it was basically an upper class thing. The whole idea of amateurism was that it was just your average landed gentry type doing it in their off time.
It's literally in the name - amateurism is derived from the Latin word for love, amor. The idea is that, unlike the lower classes engaging in the activity for pay, the amateur does so "for the love of the game", their motive being purer than base compensation.
ButtersA glass of some milksRegistered Userregular
The Olympics happily abandoned amateurism when they realized there was more money in having professionals compete. As cool as the "Miracle on Ice" was, its revenue potential is nothing compared to the Dream Team.
The Olympics happily abandoned amateurism when they realized there was more money in having professionals compete. As cool as the "Miracle on Ice" was, its revenue potential is nothing compared to the Dream Team.
There was also the fact that the Soviet bloc was stretching the definition of amateur to the breaking point.
ButtersA glass of some milksRegistered Userregular
They definitely were but I don't know how much that had to do with anything. Team USA jerseys that say "JORDAN" on the back and Team Canada sweaters with "GRETZKY" make a compelling case on their own.
The Dream Team happened because the last full non-pro basketball team in 1988 merely won bronze. The US Basketball organisation petitioned the IOC to approve the use of pros for all nations. Never you mind that in '92 the number of non-US players in the NBA probably couldn't put a full team on the court combined.
(All that has happened since is the rest of the world continued to improve. Again.)
The NHL wanted to heavily promote ice hockey i the US (again) and got behind the effort to allow pros in the olympics. The tournament was even changed to ensure US/Canada success by having a tiered structure where Group of Five countries who weren't hockey powers would play to see which two teams would join the six world powers (Canada, Czech Rep., Finland, Russia, Sweden, USA) to get their asses kicked.
The hockey tournament is now more like it used to be making it more or less accessible to everybody else (Germany won silver!).
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All the more reason he should know!
This has been obviously the way this was going to go for a couple years. Was just a question if the NLRB, SCOTUS, or Congress would get there first.
Unrelated, there was a pretty interesting study of social media followers among players at the Elite Eight, which is one of the more obvious ways that players could monetize if they got NIL rights. Of the top ten players, eight were women, led by Paige Bueckers.
Thomas is a Nebraska supporter, he just knows Scott Frost Day is just around the corner.
3DS: 2981-5304-3227
Is that like Bobby Bonilla day where Nebraska gives Frost millions for another year of his contract becoming official despite them making no progress at all since canning Bo Pelini
Nope, Clarance Thomas is apparently incredibly-invested in Nebraska athletics.
Tweeter is Cam Newton from Mid Major Madness.
3DS: 2981-5304-3227
And not cause it’s part of the job
Thomas has stated that he feels that oral argument is just theater, and that the primary work of argumentation is done through briefs. Which, well - he's not exactly wrong there.
Senators Blumenthal and Booker were also in this meeting.
Separately Nicole Auerbach of The Athletic spoke to two dozen ADs and conference commissioners about Emmert who thinks he needs to go.
To think that Emmett had, "future political aspirations" , post his tenure as NCAA Commish, but his blatant, failing optics 101, with the recent debacle, was icing on the cake that it's been long overdue for him to step down.
He dug his own grave.
As is any sports league commissioner. Football fans love to hate on Roger Goodell and with good reason, but Goodell is simply the manifestation of the desires of the franchise owners made human. He's paid like a pop star by the NFL because he happily eats most of the shit thrown which should be directed at the owners.
I think the bolded comes about because it can be pretty insane walking to your decrepit physics department class, that's being held in a janky building buried over at the ass end of campus, and realizing how much money the school shelled out on top of the line athletics facilities this year alone. Also, for anyone who's ever had a class with a "student" athlete from the basketball or football team, it gets really obvious that quite often neither the athletes, or the school are particularly interested these kids getting an education, even at a podunk D1 school where the players have little chance of a professional future.
It's obviously a much more complicated problem, but I suspect many students, especially in the sciences, come out of college with that attitude, because they're only seeing the athletics side of college from far away.
It was nice to see the SC come together to punch down on the NCAA though. The insane coaches salaries alone make it abundantly clear that these colleges are getting crazy return on their free labor. And yes, when these athletes can start being paid, things are in fact going to change, but change is inevitable, and its clearly time that the athletic business gets separated from the academic one.
Gonna start getting weird when Lebron buys a team
....although I’m not optimistic he can stay as progressive as he is once he’s an owner instead of labor...
This also puts the lie to the "it would only be top marquee players who would get any benefit from NIL rights" argument that gets bandied about.
Top football/basketball players only. Since Ledecky is literally the best female distance swimmer in history by an enormous margin.
And swimming is cool cause they put that slow-ass yellow line half a pool behind her to literally show that margin
Although it’s not so slow now that all the yellow lines belong to Ledecky
Swimming might not be the biggest sport ever, but is a hell of a long way from being a backup punter on a .500 team.
And yet look at how our society presents them. The sad, frustrating reality is that college football and basketball players have a social prominence that is a magnitude of order greater than others. That said, just because they don't have the cachet that marquee sport athletes have doesn't mean that their NIL rights are worthless as gets argued by NCAA defenders - as highlighted by Ledecky's own deals.
When I'm saying "non-marquee player", I mean "athlete not competing in the two 'marquee' college sports of football and basketball." Ledecky is at the pinnacle of her sport and garners attention due to that - but at the same time that attention pales in comparison to Trevor Lawrence, who is in all respects at the start of his career. The marquee sports are different beasts.
At the same time, my point was that the argument that only marquee players would be able to exploit their NIL rights is utter gooseshit, yet it's an argument the NCAA's defenders routinely make. The reality is that while they might not get major deals like those a marquee player, they can easily get smaller deals. Not to mention that it would allow for viral performances to be capitalized on.
Honestly one of the coolest sports moments that could be memorialized and valuable in that format
Especially when the college is capitalizing on it themselves.
I'm just saying the Olympic sports get major endorsements. She got 6 years 7 million from a swimwear company once she went pro.
Amateurism is class warfare.
It was the 19th century and it was basically an upper class thing. The whole idea of amateurism was that it was just your average landed gentry type doing it in their off time.
It's literally in the name - amateurism is derived from the Latin word for love, amor. The idea is that, unlike the lower classes engaging in the activity for pay, the amateur does so "for the love of the game", their motive being purer than base compensation.
Again, amateurism is class warfare.
There was also the fact that the Soviet bloc was stretching the definition of amateur to the breaking point.
(All that has happened since is the rest of the world continued to improve. Again.)
The NHL wanted to heavily promote ice hockey i the US (again) and got behind the effort to allow pros in the olympics. The tournament was even changed to ensure US/Canada success by having a tiered structure where Group of Five countries who weren't hockey powers would play to see which two teams would join the six world powers (Canada, Czech Rep., Finland, Russia, Sweden, USA) to get their asses kicked.
The hockey tournament is now more like it used to be making it more or less accessible to everybody else (Germany won silver!).