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PAX East 2015 Pin Trading Event
Beker
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in Pinny Arcade
I've seen some chatter about this in different threads, and since its something I could have some influence over I thought I'd make a place specific for it.
At Prime we let in a certain amount of people for a limited amount of time and then cleared the room for the next set. This was generally complained about, and so we decided to change it up. At Aus and South we went for the trickle method. However we had noticed that many traders stayed in the corral for the entire event. Its really partly our fault, we had fun games happening in there, and there was always the possibility for someone to drop a good pin on the table.
Before the East event we talked about some possibilities, and ultimately decided rather than going back to the clearing the room between groups method we would try having some of our enforcers watching and asking people to leave if they seemed to be hanging around for a long time. Even so I still noticed a few faces I recognized come back to my table over a long period of time. Its an event we enjoy, and we will be tweaking it as times goes on, please do share your thoughts on how it went.
I appreciate you all saying we should organize areas for you to trade with each other, but PAX is really about the community. We heartily encourage you all to organize your own meetups and trading events. There are a ton of places where you could do that and not be in the way. Queue room always has some space after opening, there are out of the way hallways and alcoves, etc. You could make it a regular thing, every day at from x-y traders can meet up at a certain place to swap pins and stories which is what the buttoneers do.
Anyway, thanks for all the trades and those of you that said hi. It was great seeing everyone.
At Prime we let in a certain amount of people for a limited amount of time and then cleared the room for the next set. This was generally complained about, and so we decided to change it up. At Aus and South we went for the trickle method. However we had noticed that many traders stayed in the corral for the entire event. Its really partly our fault, we had fun games happening in there, and there was always the possibility for someone to drop a good pin on the table.
Before the East event we talked about some possibilities, and ultimately decided rather than going back to the clearing the room between groups method we would try having some of our enforcers watching and asking people to leave if they seemed to be hanging around for a long time. Even so I still noticed a few faces I recognized come back to my table over a long period of time. Its an event we enjoy, and we will be tweaking it as times goes on, please do share your thoughts on how it went.
I appreciate you all saying we should organize areas for you to trade with each other, but PAX is really about the community. We heartily encourage you all to organize your own meetups and trading events. There are a ton of places where you could do that and not be in the way. Queue room always has some space after opening, there are out of the way hallways and alcoves, etc. You could make it a regular thing, every day at from x-y traders can meet up at a certain place to swap pins and stories which is what the buttoneers do.
Anyway, thanks for all the trades and those of you that said hi. It was great seeing everyone.
-Beker/Erick
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Prime was definitely not the way to do it. Aus and South were far better and the atmosphere was great. What really made the difference were the tables at the back which allowed people to congregate, talk, and make trades. Being able to use those is a big factor. At East, we couldn't.
I know that the capping on people in the event was because you didn't want swarms of people at the Staff tables, but maybe a different layout would help. Putting the Staff tables further apart, more of a crescent shape rather than a straight line, maybe even putting them on either side of the area and having the trade tables in the middle. As it was, you had a large space for the event and most of it was empty.
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I don't need any pins, while I love to interact with the staff, the trade event has gotten to the point that there is very little interaction because people are pushing and trying to get at the tables. My plan was to get in, grab all the staff pins and get out because I know there are people who aren't as crazy as I am. It saddens me to sacrifice my minimal interaction with the people who bring the joy into my life, but I don't want to take up too much time because it makes me happier knowing other people get the pins they want.
I probably won't go to the event at prime because it will just be an overload at that point, unless people need me to get then staff pins. I think those of us who have been around for a while need to step back and let our little baby birds out of the nest to fly on their own. Yes there's always that chance you could score a sweet pin, but do you need that pin? Come in, play a game or two, talk a few minutes with the staff and move on. We want our hobby to grow and our community to increase, and I feel one of the sacrifices we have to make is to make room for new people to have some fun too.
I saw a guy who was super stoked about a Pinny Afcade logo pin he had been thing to find for a long time. That was it, no dlc, no Aus pins, no gold overwatch, he was thrilled to death about a pin that most of us who've been doing this since the inception take for granted. Spread the love guys.
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Always looking to trade.
I was guilty of this at Aus, but I didn't get in until about the half way point. I moved to the tables originally to make sure I had all the pins I needed (still ended up being one short), and just organically started trading with others. Since the trade tables weren't as packed as the staff tables I never felt like I was ever in anyone's way and by the time I came out of my pin fugue state the line seem to have disappeared anyway.
I can't speak for how that system worked for other shows, but I thought it was a great way to do it.
Maybe funnel people away from the staff after they've visited each table to a separate trading area they can hang around in?
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I'm well aware that the main part of this hobby is interacting with others and trading pins. Personally, I felt like Prime had a very good set up; letting people hang out for a while before they had to clear out bodes no problem for anyone except for people waiting for better pins to show up. If we can somehow add another area specifically for trading/chatting, it would be amazing.
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Perhaps a solution would be to have two specific separate zones, staff trading and community trading. The line gets trickled through the staff area, with enforcers on hand to move people along if they are camping the tables. Then they get funnelled into a much larger area (queue room?) for community trading, where they can stay as long as they like. If/when the line gets capped, those people can be directed to the community area so they can at least trade with other community members.
Only a mere 136 pins to go!
I personally love the idea of setting up in the corner of the queue hall for a few hours, towards the end of expo hall closure time and perhaps for a little while after with some of the veteran traders to encourage pin trading and what not. Maybe set up our own games and fun pin related activities!
The danger of this is that it has to be truely in the interest of community and not aggressive trading. The last thing we need, as I often say, is for people to get a bad taste in their mouth from a community style trade.
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I agree with the setting up of some other place thing. It will be hard to NOT invite people that are trading for nefarious purposes. There's no screening process we can do if someone comes up wanting to trade, though.
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Only a mere 136 pins to go!
Well, community trading is done throughout the entirety of the show, but I think what he meant was an actual planned event that we could have so we don't hold up traffic at the staff event.
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Because then you have the space being used better.
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I mean the following with the very greatest of respect, absolutely no malice intended. But should a person be able to churn through the tables several times at the expense of another person who may not even get to enter at all? I mean, in your case, you admit you are looking for obscure stuff. Should you really have the right to keep others out just because you haven't found a very specific pin? In this case you are a guy with such a bounty of pins already that you even own two DLC pins, plus your contacts within PA and the community are probably the best anyone has. In the long run I have zero doubt you will be able to get most anything you might be searching for. Meanwhile I have seen posts from other new traders heartbroken because they weren't able to access the event at all. It may be that as a community we need to accept that the staff trading event is great for picking up some cool extra pins, but not absolutely everything that you may need.
Once again, not trying to pick on you or get at you, just hopefully offering up some food for thought.
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I'm saying that with proper management, it doesn't have to be a zero sum game.
I know that at Aus, when we were churning through the event we were talking to people, making trades, pointing out good stuff for new people and enjoying the event. 00fayt00 got in later than we did because he was further back in the queue making trades, even though we queued up together. Some people would make one pass and leave, and others would stay in and take another look, get a chance to play the games (which were usually on a timer) and chat to other people.
Because of the layout of Aus, and the use of space with the trade tables, there wasn't an issue with people being brought in late or being denied altogether. At East, the two problems were that (a) the space wasn't used fully and (b) use of the trade table (singular) in the middle was being actively discouraged. Rectifying these would likely solve any issues with people not getting in.
Some might say that say that because it was a Staff Trading event that community trades should happen elsewhere. To that I counter: Have you seen the PAX schedule? The size of the convention center? There is never a better time, nor place, to meet other people to make trades. I'm certain that before and after that event everyone had things they wanted to do and see that would mean they had to run walk off quickly to get somewhere else.
If you only think that people should get one pass through the event, they might as well go back to batches, a la Prime. But that sucked. One in, one out works far better. But the capacity of the actual event needs better handling.
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Brutal!
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Other than that the event seemed well run. I was about halfway in the line and it seemed to move at a brisk enough pace.
As I understand it, anyone can submit panels and ideas for things to PA and they can be considered. you don't even need a moderator really..just let people trade .
(option 2 is if we have another Pin trade 101 panel is to book if for an hour, have 30 min of QA and 30 min of trade time)
Any type of convex arrangement over a concave would be huge. Just in @Frostbyte 's picture, that change in setup would have yielded around a 30% increase in "crowd around the tables" area at South.
2015 PAX Prime Omeganaut (I will forever hate Katamari)
We could just do one right after the other. Pin Trading 101 followed by, perhaps in the same room a pin trading event.
Always looking to trade.
Maybe another option would be to have people progress from one table to the next in a line, no backtracking, and after you visit all of the staff tables, you exit that area and it opens up into an array of tables for people to do trading amongst themselves. People can "loop the line" if they want to do staff trades again, but that would help to keep the line moving and still allow people to do trading afterwards, without holding up the staff trading for the people behind them.
That being said, the trade events are only going to become more popular, and the staff are only going to have less time to do these sorts of things. I'm a huge fan of policing ourselves and just remembering to think that there are other people in line that also want these pins.
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I understand a lot of people are searching for time variant pins and like to churn through the line, but that's also chewing up a lot of peoples time to look for the pins as well. If someone is looking through the pins for 30 minutes, and someone else is on line looking for the same pins, by the time they finally get in, they'll have barely any time to do anything.
It's not a perfect system (obviously), but I do think that a timed walkthrough would be best and most fair for everyone involved.
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If the staff truly want to play their pin games, cool. During this event, maybe set up a table or two throughout the lines before getting into the event area? Or have a separate area all together (coinciding with the event) where strangers can trade if they don't want to play pin games. Not everyone wants to chit chat and play games. We know what we are looking for and if we don't find it we want out to do more PAX stuff.
I don't know if it was being enforced, but I felt like they were trying to get us to wait in line to see every. Single. Table. No thanks. I just browsed quickly for what I wanted and got out of there. If anything, I'll just hang around Behemoth since I made like 3-4 trades there. Was more productive than waiting an hour for a single table swap.
edit: I definitely noticed some people hawking tables too. That holds up the main line. So does people taking forever to browse tables. Say a few words, trade/game, and move along, people!
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I'll keep saying it. Make better use of space. Separation between tables would help a lot. Allow more people in, have room for trading in the middle. Aus was the perfect model for this.
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to be fair, the only one I did was at prime and I was one of the first in..I got through the first 5 tables w/o issue, and struggled on the last few, but I was still able to finish my staff pins, and get an extra Tiamat +zombie Tycho.
I actually like the idea of having a separate table or two for "pin games" and the rest being dedicated to just staff heads. Some of us just needed to get those pins and move on to other things. I don't want anyone that hangs out for a while to take offense to this, but it's just a matter of being fair for all.
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You assume that everyone needs the Staff heads. By Saturday I had 11 of them, and I was looking for specific stuff. I also wanted to play the games (didn't win a piñata, so sad) and so I churned a few times, watching other people play. The guy who won Khoo's wheel and traded a Christmas Kemper for Gold Overwatch had the biggest grin on his face. Very cool.
If you are just wanting people to do trades with the staff and get out, you could replace them with cork boards and move everyone along a production line. But it's about more than just getting your allocation of trades. These things are a good chance to meet people, talk to the Staff and have fun. If people are getting left out, there are ways to increase the capacity rather than limit the time of others. That should be the last resort change.
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Basically why we need a community trading event too! I would love to sit and talk with everyone and trade, we could even make up our OWN pin games. Some of us have enough pins to do so! I think the staff event should just be regulated to "you get the staff heads, chit chat for a little, and then move on"
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I'm not assuming staff heads, but I am assuming you don't cycle the line 4-5 times just waiting for someone else to drop a pin you may want/need that you could have gotten from a trade.
(also bear in mind I only have Prime 14 to base my looks on. I was not at the other 2 events, so have no clue about the games and such you are mentioning. I didn't see them at the prime one at all)
Some of the staff had some pretty fun games of chance that let you put a pin up, and roll a dice/play a game to win a pin of equal or rarer value. However, I honestly don't think that many people were staying for that so much that they were staying for possible pin drops.
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My Digital Pin Lanyard
You keep mentioning throughput. Throughput implies that people actually leave. I played a game with mike, conducted my trade with each staff table and got out. I love the PA staff and geek out over every interaction I have the pleasure of having with them. I also realize that there are other people in line, and every wasted minute I take in there just looking for a single pin or hoping for that "big score" takes away from someone who wants to have that same interaction. It's not just about pins, but if I have to sacrifice 5% of my joy so that someone else can have 50% more joy because they got to meet the Wonderous Jamie Dillion, the Amazing Beker, or The Khoo Collective(I contend that he is not a man, but a hive mind), then that's a sacrifice I HAVE to make. Not just as a pin trader, a PAX goer, but as someone who understands that everyone deserves the same chance to be happy.
I was in the first group to get in, and I was the third person to leave. I stayed until the end or the event and there were people who came in the same time that I did who didn't leave. This is unacceptable. Just having a bigger space or a larger angle to tables would not allow any one person to interact more with the staff.
Referencing Aus or South is comparing apples to oranges, or in this case comparing two hundred people to five hundred people. We have to accept that one of the consequences of growing the hobby is having less face time with the staff to trade/play games. We've seen the hobby grow by leaps and bounds over the past two years, and it's only getting bigger. More pins, more people, same number of Penny Arcade.
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