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Climate Change or: How I Stopped Worrying and Love Rising Sea Levels

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    zagdrobzagdrob Registered User regular
    Xaquin wrote: »
    Xaquin wrote: »
    I have a question about drought.

    Since glaciers and etc. are melting at in incredible pace, won't that ultimately mean a lot of water will be entering our current system?

    Like how we've had far more rain and snow in a lot of places recently.

    It all drains to the ocean, fucks the delicate balance of salinization required for the ecology, and as the ocean goes so does the rest of the planet. Time to evolve/innovate/move.

    aren't most of the glaciers/icebergs (such as in the arctic), just frozen salt water?

    No, they are all fresh water.

  • Options
    PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    Essentially, we are hoping that the classical Population Overshoot curve doesn't happen due to our technology. I'm not so hopeful.

    Overshoot.png

  • Options
    XaquinXaquin Right behind you!Registered User regular
    All nuclear disasters thus far have been obvious and avoidable flukes

    Chernobyl - Don't purposely disable your reactor safety!

    Fukushima - Don't build a nuclear plant next to an area that can get hit by a typhoon!

  • Options
    JepheryJephery Registered User regular
    edited March 2015
    Phasen wrote: »
    TL DR wrote: »
    Phasen wrote: »
    TL DR wrote: »
    And giving up meat, of course.

    How do I do this? Cause I feel terrible about eating all those animals but hamburgers.

    Incrementally! It's important not to let the perfect be the enemy of the good - especially with dietary choices for some reason, I tend to see people say "Welp I'm over my daily calorie allotment my 5% so fuggit let's go to DQ and get a blizzard!"

    'Meatless Mondays' work for some people as a way to experiment without upending their entire routine. If you find dishes and habits and routines that work for you and want to expand them, awesome! If it's really challenging for whatever reason (maybe you share the grocery shopping with non-participating roommates or your only grocery access is the local convenience store) and you want to hold steady or go to every other Monday, then you're still better than you were before you tried it.

    If you like I can dig up some guides but I'm not familiar with any off the top of my head. I will say that concerns about protein are largely fiction if you eat vegetables. Going meatless and subsisting on poptarts and cheeze-its not only defeats the purpose from an environmental perspective, it's not going to be healthier or cheaper. Meat substitutes are okay - generally expensive and anything fancier than a black bean burger is quite processed, but if it helps ease the transition then go nuts. Just be wary that if you go in expecting a hamburger you might be setting yourself up for disappointment. Homemade should be your goal.

    I was raised on meat sauce spaghetti, burgers, and tacos. Going Vegan or vegetarian will require retraining my brain and some of those things are too tasty. I think if I could find actual good vegan/vegetarian recipes that are not difficult I would at least try to meet my bad habits half way. That blackbean burger recipe looks good I'll try it this weekend. thanks!

    You could raise your own meaty animals. Guinea pig backyard farms are apparently a thing.

    Jephery on
    }
    "Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
  • Options
    XaquinXaquin Right behind you!Registered User regular
    zagdrob wrote: »
    Xaquin wrote: »
    Xaquin wrote: »
    I have a question about drought.

    Since glaciers and etc. are melting at in incredible pace, won't that ultimately mean a lot of water will be entering our current system?

    Like how we've had far more rain and snow in a lot of places recently.

    It all drains to the ocean, fucks the delicate balance of salinization required for the ecology, and as the ocean goes so does the rest of the planet. Time to evolve/innovate/move.

    aren't most of the glaciers/icebergs (such as in the arctic), just frozen salt water?

    No, they are all fresh water.

    Really?!

    I would have never imagined that!

  • Options
    JepheryJephery Registered User regular
    They're generally compacted snow aren't they?

    }
    "Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
  • Options
    ShadowfireShadowfire Vermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered User regular
    Phasen wrote: »
    TL DR wrote: »
    Phasen wrote: »
    TL DR wrote: »
    And giving up meat, of course.

    How do I do this? Cause I feel terrible about eating all those animals but hamburgers.

    Incrementally! It's important not to let the perfect be the enemy of the good - especially with dietary choices for some reason, I tend to see people say "Welp I'm over my daily calorie allotment my 5% so fuggit let's go to DQ and get a blizzard!"

    'Meatless Mondays' work for some people as a way to experiment without upending their entire routine. If you find dishes and habits and routines that work for you and want to expand them, awesome! If it's really challenging for whatever reason (maybe you share the grocery shopping with non-participating roommates or your only grocery access is the local convenience store) and you want to hold steady or go to every other Monday, then you're still better than you were before you tried it.

    If you like I can dig up some guides but I'm not familiar with any off the top of my head. I will say that concerns about protein are largely fiction if you eat vegetables. Going meatless and subsisting on poptarts and cheeze-its not only defeats the purpose from an environmental perspective, it's not going to be healthier or cheaper. Meat substitutes are okay - generally expensive and anything fancier than a black bean burger is quite processed, but if it helps ease the transition then go nuts. Just be wary that if you go in expecting a hamburger you might be setting yourself up for disappointment. Homemade should be your goal.

    I was raised on meat sauce spaghetti, burgers, and tacos. Going Vegan or vegetarian will require retraining my brain and some of those things are too tasty. I think if I could find actual good vegan/vegetarian recipes that are not difficult I would at least try to meet my bad habits half way. That blackbean burger recipe looks good I'll try it this weekend. thanks!

    I was raised on the same things. I found this recipe for a vegetarian pasta sauce that is fucking delicious, and my wife and I regularly make a double batch and have dinner plus several lunches for a week.

    WiiU: Windrunner ; Guild Wars 2: Shadowfire.3940 ; PSN: Bradcopter
  • Options
    PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    The secret to great vegetarian food is use ingredients that add umami.

  • Options
    zagdrobzagdrob Registered User regular
    Xaquin wrote: »
    zagdrob wrote: »
    Xaquin wrote: »
    Xaquin wrote: »
    I have a question about drought.

    Since glaciers and etc. are melting at in incredible pace, won't that ultimately mean a lot of water will be entering our current system?

    Like how we've had far more rain and snow in a lot of places recently.

    It all drains to the ocean, fucks the delicate balance of salinization required for the ecology, and as the ocean goes so does the rest of the planet. Time to evolve/innovate/move.

    aren't most of the glaciers/icebergs (such as in the arctic), just frozen salt water?

    No, they are all fresh water.

    Really?!

    I would have never imagined that!

    Glaciers build up from layers of snowfall, then icebergs break off the glaciers. The evaporation phase of the water cycle naturally desalinizes the water, then it precipitates as snow.

    Pack ice generally doesn't get that thick - maybe 50 feet at most - and doesn't really impact sea levels (since it's just frozen sea water).

  • Options
    tinwhiskerstinwhiskers Registered User regular
    zagdrob wrote: »
    I think it's a bit hyperbolic to say you won't have kids because of Climate Change. I also think it's a bit obnoxious when people complain about tree huggers and the permit process to build nuke plants just a couple years after Fukushima. As much as I would like to see more nuclear power, care is definitely called for. But anyway.

    The permit process for Vogtle 3& 4, took the same amount of time as the span between "We choose to go to the moon..." and "One small step for man..."

    6ylyzxlir2dz.png
  • Options
    TL DRTL DR Not at all confident in his reflexive opinions of thingsRegistered User regular
    Not having kids because you don't want to subject them to an irradiated hellscape is silly.

    Not having kids because you choose to adopt or because you recognize the threat of overpopulation (and don't plan to use your childless status to smugly consume more for yourself to the point of negating any benefit) is laudable.

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    XaquinXaquin Right behind you!Registered User regular
    you know .... I've been wanting to redo my counter and cabinets

    I wonder if I should just do away with the dishwasher. It'd probably save a bunch of water and some cash on the energy bill.

    I could just get a 2 basin sink for washing.

  • Options
    SurfpossumSurfpossum A nonentity trying to preserve the anonymity he so richly deserves.Registered User regular
    Shadowfire wrote: »
    Phasen wrote: »
    TL DR wrote: »
    Phasen wrote: »
    TL DR wrote: »
    And giving up meat, of course.

    How do I do this? Cause I feel terrible about eating all those animals but hamburgers.

    Incrementally! It's important not to let the perfect be the enemy of the good - especially with dietary choices for some reason, I tend to see people say "Welp I'm over my daily calorie allotment my 5% so fuggit let's go to DQ and get a blizzard!"

    'Meatless Mondays' work for some people as a way to experiment without upending their entire routine. If you find dishes and habits and routines that work for you and want to expand them, awesome! If it's really challenging for whatever reason (maybe you share the grocery shopping with non-participating roommates or your only grocery access is the local convenience store) and you want to hold steady or go to every other Monday, then you're still better than you were before you tried it.

    If you like I can dig up some guides but I'm not familiar with any off the top of my head. I will say that concerns about protein are largely fiction if you eat vegetables. Going meatless and subsisting on poptarts and cheeze-its not only defeats the purpose from an environmental perspective, it's not going to be healthier or cheaper. Meat substitutes are okay - generally expensive and anything fancier than a black bean burger is quite processed, but if it helps ease the transition then go nuts. Just be wary that if you go in expecting a hamburger you might be setting yourself up for disappointment. Homemade should be your goal.

    I was raised on meat sauce spaghetti, burgers, and tacos. Going Vegan or vegetarian will require retraining my brain and some of those things are too tasty. I think if I could find actual good vegan/vegetarian recipes that are not difficult I would at least try to meet my bad habits half way. That blackbean burger recipe looks good I'll try it this weekend. thanks!

    I was raised on the same things. I found this recipe for a vegetarian pasta sauce that is fucking delicious, and my wife and I regularly make a double batch and have dinner plus several lunches for a week.
    I dabble in eating less meat now and then; one of my favorite meals is lasagna now. It still involves a ton of cheese, but you can whip up your own sauce and then it's just noodles.

    Personally, I've found that I can't stand trying to replace meat with something else (because it just won't be as good), but otherwise quite enjoy "vegetarian" meals. Stir fried stuff, pasta sauces, roasted eggplant and tomatoes, nachos (with just refried beans, bell peppers, and onions; scandalous, I know) stuff like that can all be delicious without trying to be something it's not.

    Of course, if you find a veggie burger that tastes good to you, more power to ya.

  • Options
    Emissary42Emissary42 Registered User regular
    edited March 2015
    Xaquin wrote: »
    All nuclear disasters thus far have been obvious and avoidable flukes

    Chernobyl - Don't purposely disable your reactor safety!

    Fukushima - Don't build a nuclear plant next to an area that can get hit by a typhoon without sufficient seawalls, additional elevation, and cooling failsafes!

    A few reactors that had been built in similar locations under the tenure of Yanosuke Hirai had no issues, as he ensured those built under his watch were prepared for the historic worsts for the region.

    Emissary42 on
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    VeeveeVeevee WisconsinRegistered User regular
    Nerdy nit pick but it wasn't a typhoon, it was a tsunami.

  • Options
    davidsdurionsdavidsdurions Your Trusty Meatshield Panhandle NebraskaRegistered User regular
    Xaquin wrote: »
    Xaquin wrote: »
    I have a question about drought.

    Since glaciers and etc. are melting at in incredible pace, won't that ultimately mean a lot of water will be entering our current system?

    Like how we've had far more rain and snow in a lot of places recently.

    It all drains to the ocean, fucks the delicate balance of salinization required for the ecology, and as the ocean goes so does the rest of the planet. Time to evolve/innovate/move.

    aren't most of the glaciers/icebergs (such as in the arctic), just frozen salt water?

    As already pointed out, it is fresh water in glaciers. But I'll add that even if it was salt water, the fact that it would be more salt water added to the system it would still throw the balance off and problems would arise from that as well.

  • Options
    XaquinXaquin Right behind you!Registered User regular
    Veevee wrote: »
    Nerdy nit pick but it wasn't a typhoon, it was a tsunami.

    Hope you can split wood and split skulls as well as you can split hairs!

    Our Mad Max future holds no truck with your kind!
    (I'm kidding, <3)

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    Emissary42Emissary42 Registered User regular
    To be honest, I would be more concerned about someone doing something silly like successfully making Turbo Kudzu that grows 60% faster than any other terrestrial plant, and then promptly losing control of it.

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    ShadowfireShadowfire Vermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered User regular
    Surfpossum wrote: »
    Shadowfire wrote: »
    Phasen wrote: »
    TL DR wrote: »
    Phasen wrote: »
    TL DR wrote: »
    And giving up meat, of course.

    How do I do this? Cause I feel terrible about eating all those animals but hamburgers.

    Incrementally! It's important not to let the perfect be the enemy of the good - especially with dietary choices for some reason, I tend to see people say "Welp I'm over my daily calorie allotment my 5% so fuggit let's go to DQ and get a blizzard!"

    'Meatless Mondays' work for some people as a way to experiment without upending their entire routine. If you find dishes and habits and routines that work for you and want to expand them, awesome! If it's really challenging for whatever reason (maybe you share the grocery shopping with non-participating roommates or your only grocery access is the local convenience store) and you want to hold steady or go to every other Monday, then you're still better than you were before you tried it.

    If you like I can dig up some guides but I'm not familiar with any off the top of my head. I will say that concerns about protein are largely fiction if you eat vegetables. Going meatless and subsisting on poptarts and cheeze-its not only defeats the purpose from an environmental perspective, it's not going to be healthier or cheaper. Meat substitutes are okay - generally expensive and anything fancier than a black bean burger is quite processed, but if it helps ease the transition then go nuts. Just be wary that if you go in expecting a hamburger you might be setting yourself up for disappointment. Homemade should be your goal.

    I was raised on meat sauce spaghetti, burgers, and tacos. Going Vegan or vegetarian will require retraining my brain and some of those things are too tasty. I think if I could find actual good vegan/vegetarian recipes that are not difficult I would at least try to meet my bad habits half way. That blackbean burger recipe looks good I'll try it this weekend. thanks!

    I was raised on the same things. I found this recipe for a vegetarian pasta sauce that is fucking delicious, and my wife and I regularly make a double batch and have dinner plus several lunches for a week.
    I dabble in eating less meat now and then; one of my favorite meals is lasagna now. It still involves a ton of cheese, but you can whip up your own sauce and then it's just noodles.

    Personally, I've found that I can't stand trying to replace meat with something else (because it just won't be as good), but otherwise quite enjoy "vegetarian" meals. Stir fried stuff, pasta sauces, roasted eggplant and tomatoes, nachos (with just refried beans, bell peppers, and onions; scandalous, I know) stuff like that can all be delicious without trying to be something it's not.

    Of course, if you find a veggie burger that tastes good to you, more power to ya.

    Sliced zucchini makes a wonderful standin for lasagna noodles.

    WiiU: Windrunner ; Guild Wars 2: Shadowfire.3940 ; PSN: Bradcopter
  • Options
    PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    Shadowfire wrote: »
    Surfpossum wrote: »
    Shadowfire wrote: »
    Phasen wrote: »
    TL DR wrote: »
    Phasen wrote: »
    TL DR wrote: »
    And giving up meat, of course.

    How do I do this? Cause I feel terrible about eating all those animals but hamburgers.

    Incrementally! It's important not to let the perfect be the enemy of the good - especially with dietary choices for some reason, I tend to see people say "Welp I'm over my daily calorie allotment my 5% so fuggit let's go to DQ and get a blizzard!"

    'Meatless Mondays' work for some people as a way to experiment without upending their entire routine. If you find dishes and habits and routines that work for you and want to expand them, awesome! If it's really challenging for whatever reason (maybe you share the grocery shopping with non-participating roommates or your only grocery access is the local convenience store) and you want to hold steady or go to every other Monday, then you're still better than you were before you tried it.

    If you like I can dig up some guides but I'm not familiar with any off the top of my head. I will say that concerns about protein are largely fiction if you eat vegetables. Going meatless and subsisting on poptarts and cheeze-its not only defeats the purpose from an environmental perspective, it's not going to be healthier or cheaper. Meat substitutes are okay - generally expensive and anything fancier than a black bean burger is quite processed, but if it helps ease the transition then go nuts. Just be wary that if you go in expecting a hamburger you might be setting yourself up for disappointment. Homemade should be your goal.

    I was raised on meat sauce spaghetti, burgers, and tacos. Going Vegan or vegetarian will require retraining my brain and some of those things are too tasty. I think if I could find actual good vegan/vegetarian recipes that are not difficult I would at least try to meet my bad habits half way. That blackbean burger recipe looks good I'll try it this weekend. thanks!

    I was raised on the same things. I found this recipe for a vegetarian pasta sauce that is fucking delicious, and my wife and I regularly make a double batch and have dinner plus several lunches for a week.
    I dabble in eating less meat now and then; one of my favorite meals is lasagna now. It still involves a ton of cheese, but you can whip up your own sauce and then it's just noodles.

    Personally, I've found that I can't stand trying to replace meat with something else (because it just won't be as good), but otherwise quite enjoy "vegetarian" meals. Stir fried stuff, pasta sauces, roasted eggplant and tomatoes, nachos (with just refried beans, bell peppers, and onions; scandalous, I know) stuff like that can all be delicious without trying to be something it's not.

    Of course, if you find a veggie burger that tastes good to you, more power to ya.

    Sliced zucchini makes a wonderful standin for lasagna noodles.

    I once had an amazing raw food pad thai based around zuchini noodles.

  • Options
    That_GuyThat_Guy I don't wanna be that guy Registered User regular
    The more I read about global climate change, the more upset I am at the last generation for pissing away the last chance we had at saving the world. I feel like worldwide adoption of the fast neutron reactor leading into the thorium cycle reactor could have at least bought us the time needed to get off fossil fuel energy altogether. It's a real, "what if Hitler had just been accepted to art school" sort of feeling.

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    HacksawHacksaw J. Duggan Esq. Wrestler at LawRegistered User regular
    I blame the Baby Boomers.

    "Global Warming? Bah, who cares! We'll be long dead by the time it gets bad anyways! Right now I need to focus on myself and exactly nothing else in perpetuity forever."

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    CampyCampy Registered User regular
    That_Guy wrote: »
    The more I read about global climate change, the more upset I am at the last generation for pissing away the last chance we had at saving the world. I feel like worldwide adoption of the fast neutron reactor leading into the thorium cycle reactor could have at least bought us the time needed to get off fossil fuel energy altogether. It's a real, "what if Hitler had just been accepted to art school" sort of feeling.

    Gotta have enough nukes to glass the entire world though!

  • Options
    PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    Hacksaw wrote: »
    I blame the Baby Boomers.

    "Global Warming? Bah, who cares! We'll be long dead by the time it gets bad anyways! Right now I need to focus on myself and exactly nothing else in perpetuity forever."

    Looking at recent history, I think the Baby Boomers biggest sin is that they collectively bought all the conservative's propaganda. All of those Fox News tropes that we like to laugh at - that's what the grown-up hippies bought into as their worldview. They only seem so strident now because the younger generations caught on to the bullshit, but I'm old enough to remember the 80s, when the conservative worldview was simply "the way things are" for most of society.

  • Options
    Regina FongRegina Fong Allons-y, Alonso Registered User regular
    Xaquin wrote: »
    you know .... I've been wanting to redo my counter and cabinets

    I wonder if I should just do away with the dishwasher. It'd probably save a bunch of water and some cash on the energy bill.

    I could just get a 2 basin sink for washing.

    Nope. Hand washing uses much more water.

    Just fill your dishwasher all the way full before you run it and use the power miser settings (lower heat etc).

  • Options
    BarrakkethBarrakketh Registered User regular
    Xaquin wrote: »
    you know .... I've been wanting to redo my counter and cabinets

    I wonder if I should just do away with the dishwasher. It'd probably save a bunch of water and some cash on the energy bill.

    I could just get a 2 basin sink for washing.
    Unless your dishwasher is really terrible you will end up using more water and energy doing dishes by hand. Just don't use the heated dry setting.

    Rollers are red, chargers are blue....omae wa mou shindeiru
  • Options
    XaquinXaquin Right behind you!Registered User regular
    Xaquin wrote: »
    you know .... I've been wanting to redo my counter and cabinets

    I wonder if I should just do away with the dishwasher. It'd probably save a bunch of water and some cash on the energy bill.

    I could just get a 2 basin sink for washing.

    Nope. Hand washing uses much more water.

    Just fill your dishwasher all the way full before you run it and use the power miser settings (lower heat etc).

    Oh I already do that

    Really, less water than half a sink full?

  • Options
    Regina FongRegina Fong Allons-y, Alonso Registered User regular
    Xaquin wrote: »
    Xaquin wrote: »
    you know .... I've been wanting to redo my counter and cabinets

    I wonder if I should just do away with the dishwasher. It'd probably save a bunch of water and some cash on the energy bill.

    I could just get a 2 basin sink for washing.

    Nope. Hand washing uses much more water.

    Just fill your dishwasher all the way full before you run it and use the power miser settings (lower heat etc).

    Oh I already do that

    Really, less water than half a sink full?

    Half a sink full to wash, but then a ton more to rinse unless... no. Just no. I'm just going to assume you rinse.

  • Options
    HacksawHacksaw J. Duggan Esq. Wrestler at LawRegistered User regular
    Newer washers also recirculate water during use.

  • Options
    That_GuyThat_Guy I don't wanna be that guy Registered User regular
    Xaquin wrote: »
    Xaquin wrote: »
    you know .... I've been wanting to redo my counter and cabinets

    I wonder if I should just do away with the dishwasher. It'd probably save a bunch of water and some cash on the energy bill.

    I could just get a 2 basin sink for washing.

    Nope. Hand washing uses much more water.

    Just fill your dishwasher all the way full before you run it and use the power miser settings (lower heat etc).

    Oh I already do that

    Really, less water than half a sink full?

    You still have to rinse your dishes and that uses a lot of water. Pretty much every dishwasher made in the last 20 years is energystar certified to use less than 5 gal of water per cycle. A modern high effeciency dishwasher can use as little as 1.95 gal per cycle. A kitchen sink holds between 10-20 gal. Now I'm no math wiz, but one of these numbers is smaller than the other.

    More proof to back it up
    http://www.treehugger.com/kitchen-design/built-in-dishwashers-vs-hand-washing-which-is-greener.html

  • Options
    DaedalusDaedalus Registered User regular
    That_Guy wrote: »
    Xaquin wrote: »
    Xaquin wrote: »
    you know .... I've been wanting to redo my counter and cabinets

    I wonder if I should just do away with the dishwasher. It'd probably save a bunch of water and some cash on the energy bill.

    I could just get a 2 basin sink for washing.

    Nope. Hand washing uses much more water.

    Just fill your dishwasher all the way full before you run it and use the power miser settings (lower heat etc).

    Oh I already do that

    Really, less water than half a sink full?

    You still have to rinse your dishes and that uses a lot of water. Pretty much every dishwasher made in the last 20 years is energystar certified to use less than 5 gal of water per cycle. A modern high effeciency dishwasher can use as little as 1.95 gal per cycle. A kitchen sink holds between 10-20 gal. Now I'm no math wiz, but one of these numbers is smaller than the other.

    More proof to back it up
    http://www.treehugger.com/kitchen-design/built-in-dishwashers-vs-hand-washing-which-is-greener.html

    I see Xaquin's misconception all over the place, though, and it raises an interesting point: where does this attitude come from? Is it hair-shirt-ism, where the thing that's a pain in the ass is presumed to be the right thing to do, or is it the thing that's higher technology is assumed to be worse, or what?

    A bunch of non-solutions to climate change are like this. Sorry, bicycling to work once a week and eating raw food isn't going to make any difference either.

  • Options
    That_GuyThat_Guy I don't wanna be that guy Registered User regular
    Daedalus wrote: »
    That_Guy wrote: »
    Xaquin wrote: »
    Xaquin wrote: »
    you know .... I've been wanting to redo my counter and cabinets

    I wonder if I should just do away with the dishwasher. It'd probably save a bunch of water and some cash on the energy bill.

    I could just get a 2 basin sink for washing.

    Nope. Hand washing uses much more water.

    Just fill your dishwasher all the way full before you run it and use the power miser settings (lower heat etc).

    Oh I already do that

    Really, less water than half a sink full?

    You still have to rinse your dishes and that uses a lot of water. Pretty much every dishwasher made in the last 20 years is energystar certified to use less than 5 gal of water per cycle. A modern high effeciency dishwasher can use as little as 1.95 gal per cycle. A kitchen sink holds between 10-20 gal. Now I'm no math wiz, but one of these numbers is smaller than the other.

    More proof to back it up
    http://www.treehugger.com/kitchen-design/built-in-dishwashers-vs-hand-washing-which-is-greener.html

    I see Xaquin's misconception all over the place, though, and it raises an interesting point: where does this attitude come from? Is it hair-shirt-ism, where the thing that's a pain in the ass is presumed to be the right thing to do, or is it the thing that's higher technology is assumed to be worse, or what?

    A bunch of non-solutions to climate change are like this. Sorry, bicycling to work once a week and eating raw food isn't going to make any difference either.

    I think the misconception stems from both. My mom is one of those sort of people. I have witnessed it all my life. They see something new and use their limited world view to make snap judgments about things without bothering to check their facts or see if they were right. Maybe millennials like myself are spoiled having grown up at the dawn of the information age, but I never hesitate to re-evaluate my world view based on new information. When I was younger, my idea of rebellion was to become a staunch conservative. As ashamed as I am to admit it, I even voted for Bush. As I learned more and more from the internet I totally changed my world view to be fiercely progressive. I was one of those climate change skeptics back in the 2000s before father science and mother reason herself slapped some god damned sense into me. Boomers on the other hand use the internet to exchange bible verses and clickbait links. It doesn't even occur to them that they could find answers to every question they could ever have asked. When they were children and asked why, it was often met with the back of a hand. When we ask why, we can find out with a simple google search.

    This is of course just my opinion at the moment and is always subject to change.

  • Options
    Captain MarcusCaptain Marcus now arrives the hour of actionRegistered User regular
    burbo wrote: »
    It's not going to work like that moniker. The people who live on the coasts don't just disappear. They will come to your utopia and want your land and water.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sb7bOljBAQ

  • Options
    That_GuyThat_Guy I don't wanna be that guy Registered User regular
    burbo wrote: »
    It's not going to work like that moniker. The people who live on the coasts don't just disappear. They will come to your utopia and want your land and water.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sb7bOljBAQ

    OMFG I lOVE THAT SHOW. I had no idea the great moments in history were so connected.

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    Regina FongRegina Fong Allons-y, Alonso Registered User regular
    Daedalus wrote: »
    That_Guy wrote: »
    Xaquin wrote: »
    Xaquin wrote: »
    you know .... I've been wanting to redo my counter and cabinets

    I wonder if I should just do away with the dishwasher. It'd probably save a bunch of water and some cash on the energy bill.

    I could just get a 2 basin sink for washing.

    Nope. Hand washing uses much more water.

    Just fill your dishwasher all the way full before you run it and use the power miser settings (lower heat etc).

    Oh I already do that

    Really, less water than half a sink full?

    You still have to rinse your dishes and that uses a lot of water. Pretty much every dishwasher made in the last 20 years is energystar certified to use less than 5 gal of water per cycle. A modern high effeciency dishwasher can use as little as 1.95 gal per cycle. A kitchen sink holds between 10-20 gal. Now I'm no math wiz, but one of these numbers is smaller than the other.

    More proof to back it up
    http://www.treehugger.com/kitchen-design/built-in-dishwashers-vs-hand-washing-which-is-greener.html

    I see Xaquin's misconception all over the place, though, and it raises an interesting point: where does this attitude come from? Is it hair-shirt-ism, where the thing that's a pain in the ass is presumed to be the right thing to do, or is it the thing that's higher technology is assumed to be worse, or what?

    A bunch of non-solutions to climate change are like this. Sorry, bicycling to work once a week and eating raw food isn't going to make any difference either.

    It's just that annoying Puritan attitude that if something is harder it is better, more moral, etc.

    Our whole nation is infested with it.

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    PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    edited March 2015
    Daedalus wrote: »
    That_Guy wrote: »
    Xaquin wrote: »
    Xaquin wrote: »
    you know .... I've been wanting to redo my counter and cabinets

    I wonder if I should just do away with the dishwasher. It'd probably save a bunch of water and some cash on the energy bill.

    I could just get a 2 basin sink for washing.

    Nope. Hand washing uses much more water.

    Just fill your dishwasher all the way full before you run it and use the power miser settings (lower heat etc).

    Oh I already do that

    Really, less water than half a sink full?

    You still have to rinse your dishes and that uses a lot of water. Pretty much every dishwasher made in the last 20 years is energystar certified to use less than 5 gal of water per cycle. A modern high effeciency dishwasher can use as little as 1.95 gal per cycle. A kitchen sink holds between 10-20 gal. Now I'm no math wiz, but one of these numbers is smaller than the other.

    More proof to back it up
    http://www.treehugger.com/kitchen-design/built-in-dishwashers-vs-hand-washing-which-is-greener.html

    I see Xaquin's misconception all over the place, though, and it raises an interesting point: where does this attitude come from? Is it hair-shirt-ism, where the thing that's a pain in the ass is presumed to be the right thing to do, or is it the thing that's higher technology is assumed to be worse, or what?

    A bunch of non-solutions to climate change are like this. Sorry, bicycling to work once a week and eating raw food isn't going to make any difference either.

    It's just that annoying Puritan attitude that if something is harder it is better, more moral, etc.

    Our whole nation is infested with it.

    In terms of dishwashers, it's just the standard assumption that the device that requires electricity and generates heat is less environmentally friendly than the manual labor it replaces. That's usually true, but the water use tips the scale in the direction of the device. Even then, it would be hard to make the right call on the basis of observation, since it is not immediately obvious that a dishwasher uses less water than hand scrubbing.

    Phillishere on
  • Options
    XaquinXaquin Right behind you!Registered User regular
    edited March 2015
    Daedalus wrote: »
    That_Guy wrote: »
    Xaquin wrote: »
    Xaquin wrote: »
    you know .... I've been wanting to redo my counter and cabinets

    I wonder if I should just do away with the dishwasher. It'd probably save a bunch of water and some cash on the energy bill.

    I could just get a 2 basin sink for washing.

    Nope. Hand washing uses much more water.

    Just fill your dishwasher all the way full before you run it and use the power miser settings (lower heat etc).

    Oh I already do that

    Really, less water than half a sink full?

    You still have to rinse your dishes and that uses a lot of water. Pretty much every dishwasher made in the last 20 years is energystar certified to use less than 5 gal of water per cycle. A modern high effeciency dishwasher can use as little as 1.95 gal per cycle. A kitchen sink holds between 10-20 gal. Now I'm no math wiz, but one of these numbers is smaller than the other.

    More proof to back it up
    http://www.treehugger.com/kitchen-design/built-in-dishwashers-vs-hand-washing-which-is-greener.html

    I see Xaquin's misconception all over the place, though, and it raises an interesting point: where does this attitude come from? Is it hair-shirt-ism, where the thing that's a pain in the ass is presumed to be the right thing to do, or is it the thing that's higher technology is assumed to be worse, or what?

    A bunch of non-solutions to climate change are like this. Sorry, bicycling to work once a week and eating raw food isn't going to make any difference either.

    It's just that annoying Puritan attitude that if something is harder it is better, more moral, etc.

    Our whole nation is infested with it.

    just FYI, having never purchased a dishwasher (the one's I've used have all been installed upon arrival), I just figured they used a ton of water .... It seems like they would. The time it overflowed, it sure looked like a lot!

    edit: It should also be noted that you have to pre-wash things like pots and pans anyway so the grime doesn't just get caked on (this I know happens thanks to years and years of having to rewash my grandparents dishes)

    Xaquin on
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    XaquinXaquin Right behind you!Registered User regular
    you know .... I wonder if we could get a sticky in H/A or someplace about green practices

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    HacksawHacksaw J. Duggan Esq. Wrestler at LawRegistered User regular
    Ask @ceres about that

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    ceresceres When the last moon is cast over the last star of morning And the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderator mod
    WHO DARES DISTURB MY SLUMBER?

    Oh.

    As long as it stays with advice on being environmentally friendly and doesn't get into argument territory.

    And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
This discussion has been closed.