a) an effective zdps spec like horrify docs or herding crusaders
b) an effective dps build on par with M6 (since that's the threshold for GR parties)
c) an effective solo dps build for GR progression (some overlap with b here)
and that's assuming they never adjust damage scaling at higher GRs to remove the fact you either need blistering dps and/or a wall of tanking to keep from being instagibbed
GoodKingJayIIIThey wanna get mygold on the ceilingRegistered Userregular
edited March 2015
The crusader was godawful when RoS released. Easily the lowest damage dealer and the weakest melee class. Even if tanking were a thing in this game, it couldn't even do that well. All that seemed pretty obvious to everyone that playtested it.
I would not be surprised if 2.2 launches with a whole mess of issues that get fixed 6-8 weeks later.
I'm excited to see barbs get relevant gear besides raekor, just sounds like they need to rein in the damage of IK6 a bit.
They already mentioned rolands, so hopefully they're still looking at some of the others too. Namely thousand storms and wastes (depending on IK changes), and imo zuni6 looks pretty bad compared to most 6 pc bonuses.
I'm excited to see barbs get relevant gear besides raekor, just sounds like they need to rein in the damage of IK6 a bit.
They already mentioned rolands, so hopefully they're still looking at some of the others too. Namely thousand storms and wastes (depending on IK changes), and imo zuni6 looks pretty bad compared to most 6 pc bonuses.
@SkyAndPie and a couple others are saying to nerf IK, its barb hate!
Also, Sky, you break my heart. My HEART.
If you are reading this add me.
D3: HexDex#1281, PSN: DireOtter, Live: DireOtter
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3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
Sky also hates the bombardment belt so I think we've soundly established that Sky is anti-fun
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GoodKingJayIIIThey wanna get mygold on the ceilingRegistered Userregular
edited March 2015
I'm definitely fine with barbs being cream of the crop. They've been shit for far too long.
That said, I wish it didn't come at the expense of the other classes. Or at least, as it seems to do. This isn't a pvp game, we don't need some semblance of balance. Everything just needs to be at relative parity.
I'm sure it's a peoplepower/brainpower issue. I suspect a lot of effort went into trying to bring wizards and barbarians out of the dregs, leaving other classes that are mostly fine but might well need improvements (I'm looking at you, Roland's) in the proverbial dust.
Oh @HexDex, I'm not hating barbarians at all. I am just worried that we can't see the intended effects for Immortal King's set without the crazy extra % damage increase. The data is so skewed that PTR testers can't give proper feedback since they just either whine that Barbarians need a nerf or Barbarian players wanting to keep it as is. We need actual feedback and not QQ threads about Immortal King's.
At least people in PTR are giving some good suggestions about Roland's Legacy. Since they toned the % damage from Drakkon's Lesson, people can see the flaw in the toughness department for what it is. Before people were raving that they could do 10 billion CHD with Shield Bash over and over. Also people are fighting to get Sweep Attack viable with Roland instead of making Shield Bash the go-to rune for the set.
Sky also hates the bombardment belt so I think we've soundly established that Sky is anti-fun
The bombardment belt is a love hate thing for me. It could have been something great for Crusaders... It's just another okay legendary like the Omnislash belt and the Hammer belt. The belt is very good though for Crusaders starting out. There was always this prolong period between having no Akkhan and having full Akkhan.The 3 belts should help a lot during that period. I'm just at end game and the 3 belts seem lackluster at this point. Definitely not worth starting another Crusader for Season 3 either.
Crusader really should have been in the first round for a new set but they're probably having a hard time making something appealing with akkhan being so open-ended
Armor of Akkhan is a fantastic prototype that all the other sets needed to take inspiration from and it seems like they have. Armor of Akkhan is just antiquated now compared to the revamped sets for other classes. It's a jack of all trades set but master of none; It's not excelling in damage or toughness. I'm not too sure if changing Armor of Akkhan is a good idea at this point unless it's crazy good. I am all in for introducing a new set with the new philosophy like the other class sets in PTR.
DaimarA Million Feet Tall of AwesomeRegistered Userregular
Another noobish question, I've only been back for a couple of weeks but I haven't seen any legendary companion trinkets drop and one of the recommended items is the trinket with the condition that companions can't die for use with two Unity rings. Do they just drop like regular legendary items, do you buy them from a special merchant or do you have to craft them?
Another noobish question, I've only been back for a couple of weeks but I haven't seen any legendary companion trinkets drop and one of the recommended items is the trinket with the condition that companions can't die for use with two Unity rings. Do they just drop like regular legendary items, do you buy them from a special merchant or do you have to craft them?
It's random like any other legendary drop in the wild.
Tin foil hat people will tell you that you're more likely to find the follower legendaries playing solo. The weird logic is that playing solo makes the game go "I think you're playing solo so here is a token for your follower." I wouldn't hold my breath on that though.
Still no SMK but maybe my RNG luck is starting to turn a bit. I've finally started getting some drops that aren't flat out junk leg status regardless of how they roll, things that can actually be potential upgrades for me... Jade pieces, Marauders pieces, taskers, etc. Found 50% taskers which rolled 10% chc and 6% IAS with 700 int and rolled off the vit to settle for 49% crit dmg for now (dang that 6% IAS roll, so close to being perfect trifecta). I had a furnace drop last night while running T6 rifts with @Sneakman and my ancient hopes were high. Alas it rolled a great damage roll and 50% elite but mediocre int along with area damage and reduced resource cost. Still, it's furnace #2 and I'll make it work. Edit: Oh, it didn't roll ancient
Was making an effort to push higher on the solo WD leaderboards. I came to the conclusion that I curse an awful lot while playing 41/42 grifts as WD. I demolished a 41 and my hopes were high as the RG spawned with plenty of time left. Then it was Bloodmaw, usually not too bad as a Jade WD other than the lack of adds to help out on my cooldowns but I wasn't playing very well and kept messing up my timing and getting squished by him. I did bump up from my prior best of a 39 clear and cleared a 40 and ended up jumping into the 200's ranking (seasons). Terrible mobs throughout the rift but I was gifted with Saxtris with his adds speeding up the process of bringing him down.
I should focus now on practicing a little restraint with rerolls for a bit. Too many classes I've been rolling gear for, time to save up some and get the last couple optimal rolls I need for my zdps gear to start running some 4p grifts. One of these nights I might load up the PTR again, I'm always apprehensive to spend time farming on PTR to prepare for whats coming vs. investing my time getting better gear on live.
Crusader really should have been in the first round for a new set but they're probably having a hard time making something appealing with akkhan being so open-ended
Armor of Akkhan is a fantastic prototype that all the other sets needed to take inspiration from and it seems like they have. Armor of Akkhan is just antiquated now compared to the revamped sets for other classes. It's a jack of all trades set but master of none; It's not excelling in damage or toughness. I'm not too sure if changing Armor of Akkhan is a good idea at this point unless it's crazy good. I am all in for introducing a new set with the new philosophy like the other class sets in PTR.
Ya, I absolutely agree. IK, Nat's, Inna's, Delsere's, and to a lesser extent Zuni's, are all headed in that direction.
Then, similar to the way weapons and shields support crusader builds, open-ended sets really facilitate opportunities for Blizzard to encourage new specs just by adding even one new, skill-based legendary.
Regarding barbs vs. other classes that I'm hearing about everywhere. I haven't watched any streamers playing PTR lately nor have I played it myself, but I don't get too caught up in what one class can pull off in higher grifts vs. another class or really for that matter how one class compares to any other class when considering solo play. Group play is another story. When you group with some classes even now you either have a choice of sticking together and having the exp/MF bonus and potentially having one player that essentially just wipes everything out instantly (even if the rest of the group is godly geared) or splitting up and losing the exp/MF bonus if you want to kill stuff too. Greater Rifts are another problem when it comes to class disparity in group play. The current meta basically requires 2 DPS (reads 2 Demon Hunters) and 2 zDPS for the highest grift tiers. Playing in S1 when I played Wizard as main through most of the season, I was more or less excluded by default from trying to push the 4p leaderboards. I eventually rounded out a nice set of gear to run the gimmicky Disintegrate build and throw out some serious DPS but even then I still was easily replaced by a DH. There's always going to be that ideal set of class/builds for clearing the highest tier rifts but a little bit more balance that enables a group of 4 well geared toons of any class to run higher content too would be most welcome.
SaldonasSee you space cowboy...Registered Userregular
Well, I think my evening should be open tonight. I'm hoping some non-seasonal people will be around to help my crusader out. I'm tanky enough but don't do enough damage to make T6 comfortable yet. Watt ran me through a few late night rifts last night but that's about it so far. I really need to get my gems leveled up.
So I have a serpent sparker that lets me have 2 hydras up. I also have an ancient wizardspike that makes me do 30% more damage. I've tried both out in high GR and the serpent sparker is total garbage. I was told 2 hydras would effectively double my damage but it didn't do that. An extra hydra seems almost useless. Am I doing something wrong? I was spreading the 2 hydras out but if I put them together does the fire damage double?
It will certainly double the hydra portion of your damage, but that's only a certain percentage of your overall damage. If you were all in on hydra with TnT and attack speed gear it may have been more comparable I guess.
Ultimately, weapon damage is such an incredible factor that a 30% drop is going to be really hard to make up for.
Regarding barbs vs. other classes that I'm hearing about everywhere. I haven't watched any streamers playing PTR lately nor have I played it myself, but I don't get too caught up in what one class can pull off in higher grifts vs. another class or really for that matter how one class compares to any other class when considering solo play. Group play is another story. When you group with some classes even now you either have a choice of sticking together and having the exp/MF bonus and potentially having one player that essentially just wipes everything out instantly (even if the rest of the group is godly geared) or splitting up and losing the exp/MF bonus if you want to kill stuff too. Greater Rifts are another problem when it comes to class disparity in group play. The current meta basically requires 2 DPS (reads 2 Demon Hunters) and 2 zDPS for the highest grift tiers. Playing in S1 when I played Wizard as main through most of the season, I was more or less excluded by default from trying to push the 4p leaderboards. I eventually rounded out a nice set of gear to run the gimmicky Disintegrate build and throw out some serious DPS but even then I still was easily replaced by a DH. There's always going to be that ideal set of class/builds for clearing the highest tier rifts but a little bit more balance that enables a group of 4 well geared toons of any class to run higher content too would be most welcome.
I've been following the PTR very closely and have been watching/listening to MannerCookie test the new Barb gear every day. Trust me when I say that if 2.2 launches in its current state, your Greater Rift 4-player party will be zdps WD, zdps crusader and 2 Seismic Slam IK Barbs. That party cleared 70 and 71 last night.
There will be absolutely no room for Wizards or Demon Hunters in high-end group greater rift play, as everything they can do an IK Barb can do better. Barbs are insanely tough and durable, they have a cheat death passive now, they don't need health globes to generate resource, and their damage is literally off the charts. During last night's 70 clear each Barb was peaking at 112B DPS when fully buffed. That's 112 BILLION damage per second. They took down a 11 Trillion HP 70 rift boss in 99 seconds.
And you know what? That thread speculates that the 400% damage buff from the Power Pylon is additive with the IK 500% bonus. If it was multiplicative like it should be, then they would have cleared much faster. Yeah, Barbs are god tier in 2.2. Barbs even have a ZDPS support/pull spec on PTR, making 4-Barb parties viable for mid-60 clears. Oh, and Whirlwind Barbs will speed clear T6 rifts even faster than Raekor Barbs do now.
Heh, watching Barbarians casually crit for 10 billion a second. That's not going to stay unless everyone else gets the same numbers. Anyway this just further proves my point that these numbers are clearly being multiplied by an external factor and skewing the data. 8-)
Also I love how they worry about the "fat guy"/Grotesque too. Man, fatties kill me more than any other mob OR rift guardian.
Like Wizard dogs from yesteryear, we're Barbarian dogs (Ancients?) now If the patch goes out like this. I find it funny that prior to the Drakkon's Lesson nerf, could a Crusader be considered a "Barbarian Ancient Dog" now. Now Crusaders are just full on followers. Oh Blizzard, you make me laugh.
Teleport: Calamity and Frost Nova: Frozen Mist now proc Tal's 6pc. So that's really good, in the case of Teleport. Frozen Mist is much less useful, BUT it's way nicer to have options beyond blizzard: 10 ap.
Edit: honestly, who is ever going to use this? Ever?
I'm curious if the flat time reduction is before or after CDR. If it was after, I could maybe see some neat edge cases...maybe?
It's applied before CDR is calculated, otherwise you could end up with negative cooldowns. It was previously the premier support weapon, lowering all your cooldowns by 6 seconds.
BroloBroseidonLord of the BroceanRegistered Userregular
these zuni buffs are so silly
like it makes it pointless to play any non 6pc spec, but that also makes most of the new items they've added worthless since you can't use them with zunis
also what:
Fetish Army: Each Fetish deals 680% (up from 250%) weapon damage as Cold to any nearby enemy as it is summoned.
really blizzard that is the skill you are choosing to buff
Posts
If anything you haters should be lobbying to get the other classes brought up to that level. STOP THE HATE.
LOVE FOR ALL NEHPALEMS!
D3: HexDex#1281, PSN: DireOtter, Live: DireOtter
a) an effective zdps spec like horrify docs or herding crusaders
b) an effective dps build on par with M6 (since that's the threshold for GR parties)
c) an effective solo dps build for GR progression (some overlap with b here)
and that's assuming they never adjust damage scaling at higher GRs to remove the fact you either need blistering dps and/or a wall of tanking to keep from being instagibbed
I would not be surprised if 2.2 launches with a whole mess of issues that get fixed 6-8 weeks later.
I'm excited to see barbs get relevant gear besides raekor, just sounds like they need to rein in the damage of IK6 a bit.
They already mentioned rolands, so hopefully they're still looking at some of the others too. Namely thousand storms and wastes (depending on IK changes), and imo zuni6 looks pretty bad compared to most 6 pc bonuses.
so like... sometime next year? :rotate:
but they're probably having a hard time making something appealing with akkhan being so open-ended
@SkyAndPie and a couple others are saying to nerf IK, its barb hate!
Also, Sky, you break my heart. My HEART.
D3: HexDex#1281, PSN: DireOtter, Live: DireOtter
That said, I wish it didn't come at the expense of the other classes. Or at least, as it seems to do. This isn't a pvp game, we don't need some semblance of balance. Everything just needs to be at relative parity.
I'm sure it's a peoplepower/brainpower issue. I suspect a lot of effort went into trying to bring wizards and barbarians out of the dregs, leaving other classes that are mostly fine but might well need improvements (I'm looking at you, Roland's) in the proverbial dust.
They can make barbs super awesome fun times without making them "mandatory", heavy emphasis on the quotes
At least people in PTR are giving some good suggestions about Roland's Legacy. Since they toned the % damage from Drakkon's Lesson, people can see the flaw in the toughness department for what it is. Before people were raving that they could do 10 billion CHD with Shield Bash over and over. Also people are fighting to get Sweep Attack viable with Roland instead of making Shield Bash the go-to rune for the set.
The bombardment belt is a love hate thing for me. It could have been something great for Crusaders... It's just another okay legendary like the Omnislash belt and the Hammer belt. The belt is very good though for Crusaders starting out. There was always this prolong period between having no Akkhan and having full Akkhan.The 3 belts should help a lot during that period. I'm just at end game and the 3 belts seem lackluster at this point. Definitely not worth starting another Crusader for Season 3 either.
Armor of Akkhan is a fantastic prototype that all the other sets needed to take inspiration from and it seems like they have. Armor of Akkhan is just antiquated now compared to the revamped sets for other classes. It's a jack of all trades set but master of none; It's not excelling in damage or toughness. I'm not too sure if changing Armor of Akkhan is a good idea at this point unless it's crazy good. I am all in for introducing a new set with the new philosophy like the other class sets in PTR.
It's random like any other legendary drop in the wild.
Tin foil hat people will tell you that you're more likely to find the follower legendaries playing solo. The weird logic is that playing solo makes the game go "I think you're playing solo so here is a token for your follower." I wouldn't hold my breath on that though.
Was making an effort to push higher on the solo WD leaderboards. I came to the conclusion that I curse an awful lot while playing 41/42 grifts as WD. I demolished a 41 and my hopes were high as the RG spawned with plenty of time left. Then it was Bloodmaw, usually not too bad as a Jade WD other than the lack of adds to help out on my cooldowns but I wasn't playing very well and kept messing up my timing and getting squished by him. I did bump up from my prior best of a 39 clear and cleared a 40 and ended up jumping into the 200's ranking (seasons). Terrible mobs throughout the rift but I was gifted with Saxtris with his adds speeding up the process of bringing him down.
I should focus now on practicing a little restraint with rerolls for a bit. Too many classes I've been rolling gear for, time to save up some and get the last couple optimal rolls I need for my zdps gear to start running some 4p grifts. One of these nights I might load up the PTR again, I'm always apprehensive to spend time farming on PTR to prepare for whats coming vs. investing my time getting better gear on live.
Ya, I absolutely agree. IK, Nat's, Inna's, Delsere's, and to a lesser extent Zuni's, are all headed in that direction.
Then, similar to the way weapons and shields support crusader builds, open-ended sets really facilitate opportunities for Blizzard to encourage new specs just by adding even one new, skill-based legendary.
That's a very exciting prospect going forward.
Switch: SW-1493-0062-4053
Ultimately, weapon damage is such an incredible factor that a 30% drop is going to be really hard to make up for.
I've been following the PTR very closely and have been watching/listening to MannerCookie test the new Barb gear every day. Trust me when I say that if 2.2 launches in its current state, your Greater Rift 4-player party will be zdps WD, zdps crusader and 2 Seismic Slam IK Barbs. That party cleared 70 and 71 last night.
There will be absolutely no room for Wizards or Demon Hunters in high-end group greater rift play, as everything they can do an IK Barb can do better. Barbs are insanely tough and durable, they have a cheat death passive now, they don't need health globes to generate resource, and their damage is literally off the charts. During last night's 70 clear each Barb was peaking at 112B DPS when fully buffed. That's 112 BILLION damage per second. They took down a 11 Trillion HP 70 rift boss in 99 seconds.
And you know what? That thread speculates that the 400% damage buff from the Power Pylon is additive with the IK 500% bonus. If it was multiplicative like it should be, then they would have cleared much faster. Yeah, Barbs are god tier in 2.2. Barbs even have a ZDPS support/pull spec on PTR, making 4-Barb parties viable for mid-60 clears. Oh, and Whirlwind Barbs will speed clear T6 rifts even faster than Raekor Barbs do now.
So start picking up any IK loot I drop!
Also I love how they worry about the "fat guy"/Grotesque too. Man, fatties kill me more than any other mob OR rift guardian.
Fixed that for you! Seriously, a single CotA Ancient does more damage than my crusader. Best 4-player party is a Barb and his 3 Ancients.
Edit: When I mean laugh I mean nervously chuckle.
Ha ha, that didn't last long. Immortal King 6-piece bonus down from 500% damage to 100% damage.
RIP
Edit: honestly, who is ever going to use this? Ever?
Inquisitor77: Rius, you are Sisyphus and melee Wizard is your boulder
Tube: This must be what it felt like to be an Iraqi when Saddam was killed
Bookish Stickers - Mrs. Rius' Etsy shop with bumper stickers and vinyl decals.
It'll be interesting to see where things finally end up when the next patch hits.
Switch: SW-1493-0062-4053
overbuff then overnerf
Inquisitor77: Rius, you are Sisyphus and melee Wizard is your boulder
Tube: This must be what it felt like to be an Iraqi when Saddam was killed
Bookish Stickers - Mrs. Rius' Etsy shop with bumper stickers and vinyl decals.
I'm curious if the flat time reduction is before or after CDR. If it was after, I could maybe see some neat edge cases...maybe?
Switch: SW-1493-0062-4053
It's applied before CDR is calculated, otherwise you could end up with negative cooldowns. It was previously the premier support weapon, lowering all your cooldowns by 6 seconds.
But yeah, useless now.
Inquisitor77: Rius, you are Sisyphus and melee Wizard is your boulder
Tube: This must be what it felt like to be an Iraqi when Saddam was killed
Bookish Stickers - Mrs. Rius' Etsy shop with bumper stickers and vinyl decals.
I get that IK was overpowered, but that seems like a pretty drastic nerf.
Edit: Also probably (?) doesn't fix that IK will be the superior FC/WW set compared to Raekor/Wrath. Hmm.
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
Jade/Zuni buffed to bigger numbers i guess, poster didn't specify
and another had this to say about 1k storms, "Dat 2p 300% generator dmg and dat 6p raiment damage, 12,500%"
That's it.
Here is the data-mined link by the way. They're fast!
http://www.diablofans.com/news/48369-ptr-patch-4-datamined
like it makes it pointless to play any non 6pc spec, but that also makes most of the new items they've added worthless since you can't use them with zunis
also what:
really blizzard that is the skill you are choosing to buff
It's a really bad photoshop copy and paste too, lol
Inquisitor77: Rius, you are Sisyphus and melee Wizard is your boulder
Tube: This must be what it felt like to be an Iraqi when Saddam was killed
Bookish Stickers - Mrs. Rius' Etsy shop with bumper stickers and vinyl decals.