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Starting Mini Gaming: What to do?

kaliyamakaliyama Left to find less-moderated foraRegistered User regular
edited April 2007 in Critical Failures
I'm thinking about picking a game to play this summer. Does anyone have any recommendations?

I guess going for one of the Warhammers gives me the best player base. Flames of War would be lots of fun too.

Any suggestions? I'm probably going to do plonk down $500 for minis and paints in total, ever, so i'd like the most bang for my buck.

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kaliyama on

Posts

  • see317see317 Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    I'd suggest you find a local game store that'll run a few demo games for you. Reading the rule books is great, but nothing teaches the rules faster then actually seeing them in action.

    Sounds like a good place to start.

    see317 on
    Ringo wrote: »
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  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    see317 wrote: »
    I'd suggest you find a local game store that'll run a few demo games for you. Reading the rule books is great, but nothing teaches the rules faster then actually seeing them in action.

    Sounds like a good place to start.
    This is the best way to do it. You don't want to drop $500 on miniatures, then discover that you don't like the game.

    Thanatos on
  • kaliyamakaliyama Left to find less-moderated fora Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    Thanks guys, both of your responses are very common-sense and useful. I'll go check out demos..I worry that what I like/find stimulating on a demo won't be as fun for the long haul, or their minis are harder to paint/don't hold up as well/etc.

    I'll go look at demos and such, but i'm curious as to what games long-term players have found rewarding over time and what games have become boring quick even if they were initially appealing.

    I'm also concerned about GW changing rules/army lists and rendering collections worthless, but I don't know how much this happens.

    kaliyama on
    fwKS7.png?1
  • Mr_RoseMr_Rose 83 Blue Ridge Protects the Holy Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    kaliyama wrote: »
    Thanks guys, both of your responses are very common-sense and useful. I'll go check out demos..I worry that what I like/find stimulating on a demo won't be as fun for the long haul, or their minis are harder to paint/don't hold up as well/etc.
    In that case, get two demos; one with the "demo rules" that get you done and hooked quick, then one with the proper rules and a pointed out army list. The difference is often quite dramatic.
    kaliyama wrote: »
    I'll go look at demos and such, but i'm curious as to what games long-term players have found rewarding over time and what games have become boring quick even if they were initially appealing.
    Warhammer was one of the first and remains one of the best. 40K on the other hand has declined of late, though the reinstatement of Jervis Johnson as rules manager is a shining hope for the future of the game. Other people could tell you more about warmachine etc. since I know next to nothing about them.
    kaliyama wrote: »
    I'm also concerned about GW changing rules/army lists and rendering collections worthless, but I don't know how much this happens.
    That doesn't actually happen nearly as much as people complain about. The only real example of it ever happening is the deletion of the abominably named Squats from the 40K galaxy. Which effectively happened with the release of 2nd Ed., but wasn't confirmed until 3rd, almost ten years ago now.

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  • TechnicalityTechnicality Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    kaliyama wrote: »
    I'm also concerned about GW changing rules/army lists and rendering collections worthless, but I don't know how much this happens.

    Depends on your definition of worthless. If you aren't playing against rules lawyers or trying to win tournaments, the chances of any model becoming worthless are pretty small.

    For example, things that have affected my 10 or so year old Warhammer Orc & Goblin army, in terms of things I had to change or stop using:

    -Had to re base 6 squig herder models so they ranked up.
    -Had to re-base chariots and pump wagon.
    -Couldn't use my goblin shaman on spider in 6th Edition. Spiders are back in 7th Edition though.

    Now some other armies (especially in 40k) might get a bit of a worse deal than my goblins, but you get my point.

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  • EchoEcho Moderator mod
    edited April 2007
    Warmachine and Hordes are more skirmish-scale than Warhammer FB/40k. You'll have maybe a dozen models at most unless it's a very high-points game.

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  • learethleareth Registered User
    edited April 2007
    kaliyama wrote: »
    Thanks guys, both of your responses are very common-sense and useful. I'll go check out demos..I worry that what I like/find stimulating on a demo won't be as fun for the long haul, or their minis are harder to paint/don't hold up as well/etc.

    I'll go look at demos and such, but i'm curious as to what games long-term players have found rewarding over time and what games have become boring quick even if they were initially appealing.

    I'm also concerned about GW changing rules/army lists and rendering collections worthless, but I don't know how much this happens.

    I am still playing with my beaky-nosed mark VI Space Marines that I bought 15 years ago. Even my Eldar Harlequins have rules for them again. (After a long hiatus)

    It's not so much as rendering them useless as each time GW make a rules revision the latest army is over-powered in comparison to the previously released codex. This continues until a critical mass hits and the reboot, release a new rules revision rendering all previous codex null and void. GW of course does this for balance, and not to force die hard fans to re-buy all the their codex and rulebooks. I only say that with a slight trace of sarcasm. :P

    Having said that, I don't know anyone in the last 10 years who's lost an army because of rules changes. The worst is a people who min/maxed and had to retool a squad or too. This includes me since in an old-old set of rules Marines could have Shurikin Catapult (before they were Eldar only) and I have an entire squad outfitted.

    Before I sound to much like a 40k fanboy let me make some suggestions.

    1) I whole heartedly second (or third) the suggestion to see what your local game stores/clubs have to see if you like the rules and to see if you get along with the people you'll be playing with.
    1a) If you like a system enough and you have willing friends buy enough minis to field at least two sides.
    1b) If your local hobby store group is evil, check local Rec centers and college clubs. The groups don't always consist of the same people.

    2) Do you like to paint? Are you decent at it? If not I'd also look at games where the mini's come pre-painted or budget for someone to paint your minis.
    2a) If you can't paint well and don't want to spring for someone else to paint then remember that simple is always better. One of the best looking Tyrannid army I ever saw was painted by a 13 year old who painted them two hours before the tournament he ended up winning. Matte black primer + dark red dry-bush, and yellow eyes.
    2b) If you can paint then you should start paint journal so we can watch your new army unfold.

    3) You don't have to spend all the $500 at once. At the suggest of other PA'rs I just recently picked up two Warmachine starter squads for $100, which comes with starter rules.

    4) *Bonus* PIN THE JOINTS! If had learned this little trick when I started my first army...or hell... even my second army it would have saved myself years of frustration, and touch-up for when an arm or las-cannon or whatever gets knocked off in transportation/play.

    leareth on
  • learethleareth Registered User
    edited April 2007
    Mr_Rose wrote: »
    That doesn't actually happen nearly as much as people complain about. The only real example of it ever happening is the deletion of the abominably named Squats from the 40K galaxy. Which effectively happened with the release of 2nd Ed., but wasn't confirmed until 3rd, almost ten years ago now.

    As proud owner of no-longer rules legal Squat heavy weapons squad I take umbrage at your highly accurate statements! (They were my first minis)

    leareth on
  • InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    The most important thing when selecting a miniature game is fined a game that you can find a good amount of people to play against on a regular basis in your area.

    The game can have the best rules and the coolest models in the world but if you dont have any to play with it means jack-all. And if you only have a few people to play with you run the risk of those people not being all that fun or play with or schedule conflicts putting your gaming on hiatus for months. Personally, I'd love to play Heavy Gear as I love the rules, the fluff and the models but there are a handful of people in my state that play. So its not worth it.

    Beyond that find an game that has rules and models that you like, in a price range that you can afford and go wild.

    Inquisitor on
  • UndefinedMonkeyUndefinedMonkey Registered User
    edited April 2007
    If you're interested in Warhammer Fantasy, check out Warhammer Skirmish, Warbands, and Mordheim. All three are excellent ways of getting a good handle on what the hobby involves without spending tons of cash on models.

    Skirmish is a very basic game that relies on individual models rather than ranked units. Skirmish games tend to use a very small number of models, and are very scenario-based (defend the tower, burn the effigy, steal the treasure, etc...) Skirmish games are usually short; 15-45 minutes, as opposed to Warhammer's 1 1/2-3 hours of playtime.

    Mordheim is sort of a Skirmish RPG where your characters gain experience, equipment, skills, injuries, insanity points, etc... With the right group of people and a ton of terrain, it can be a lot of fun. My first Skaven warband actually turned into the first unit of gutter runners in my Skaven army, so you can definitely use Mordheim to start building up your army.

    Warbands is actually "Warhammer Lite." You play small-point games (100-500 points, usually) with a few minor rules adjustments, but other than that it's Warhammer. You still rank your units up, move them in formation, etc... Some people start off with a warband, and then slowly build it up into a full, 2,000-point army.

    Anyway, good luck.

    UndefinedMonkey on
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  • japanjapan Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    If you're interested in Warhammer Fantasy, check out Warhammer Skirmish, Warbands, and Mordheim. All three are excellent ways of getting a good handle on what the hobby involves without spending tons of cash on models.

    In addition to this, check out the "kill team" and "combat patrol" rules for 40K, as they're similar concepts (smaller scale games, lower model counts, good starting points).

    japan on
  • SolitaireSolitaire Registered User
    edited April 2007
    It's debatable whether any of the cut-down versions of WFB and 40k are a cheaper way to get into it than the $45 starter sets that let you play the real thing. If you don't want the Space Marines/Tyranids or Goblins/Dwarfs after using them to get a feel for the game, there's always ebay or trading them.

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  • SolitaireSolitaire Registered User
    edited April 2007
    Also, the best thing to do if you want to get into table-top gaming is find some miniatures that you like the look of, that capture your imagination and inspire you to play with them, then find out what system they're for.

    Rule-sets come and go, or just change from what you liked about them with subsequent editions. Most of your money will be spent on toy soldiers, most of your time will be spent staring at them with a paint brush in your hand.

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  • PMAversPMAvers Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    As mentioned already, you need to find a game that you have *fun* playing.

    I mean, a game might have a ton of players, but if you don't have fun playing it, no reason to waste your money on playing something you hate.

    Definitely check out a demo of the game. That's how I discovered I can't *stand* playing 40k, for instance.

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