Fix your fucking game, Blizzard. That shouldn't happen.
What.... your team went 40:1 and lost? How is that even possible? How godly did the other team do objectives, or how much did yours ignore them?
No, we were the 1.
So, where exactly was the broken bit? Without any further explanation, it sounds like your team got utterly dominated, and lost, which is in working-as-designed territory.
+1
The Escape Goatincorrigible ruminantthey/themRegistered Userregular
Fix your fucking game, Blizzard. That shouldn't happen.
What.... your team went 40:1 and lost? How is that even possible? How godly did the other team do objectives, or how much did yours ignore them?
No, we were the 1.
So, where exactly was the broken bit? Without any further explanation, it sounds like your team got utterly dominated, and lost, which is in working-as-designed territory.
I guess he's saying such a thorough stomp shouldn't be possible? Which, like... no, that should certainly be possible if you have a pants-on-head lineup or they're just way more organized than you. You can't eliminate outliers like that that easily because they're exactly that--outliers. That shouldn't (and I'd hazard a guess, doesn't) happen normally, and correcting for that wouldn't be correcting for the general case, which isn't really a good way to go about it.
+3
HacksawJ. Duggan Esq.Wrestler at LawRegistered Userregular
Fix your fucking game, Blizzard. That shouldn't happen.
What.... your team went 40:1 and lost? How is that even possible? How godly did the other team do objectives, or how much did yours ignore them?
No, we were the 1.
So, where exactly was the broken bit? Without any further explanation, it sounds like your team got utterly dominated, and lost, which is in working-as-designed territory.
I guess he's saying such a thorough stomp shouldn't be possible? Which, like... no, that should certainly be possible if you have a pants-on-head lineup or they're just way more organized than you. You can't eliminate outliers like that that easily because they're exactly that--outliers. That shouldn't (and I'd hazard a guess, doesn't) happen normally, and correcting for that wouldn't be correcting for the general case, which isn't really a good way to go about it.
Their healing potential greatly outscaled our damage abilities. They had Brightwing, Lili, and ETC, to our Tass Rehgar. Even with me poking away at them as Valla (and a dedicated effort by our dps Sylv) we only were able to kill one of them (Brightwing) the entire match, and that was when she dove past a keep to try to secure a kill on our beleaguered Anub.
Also I feel like Anub is worthless as a tank right now. He doesn't really feel well equipped to handle being the tip of the spear in a teamfight.
Fix your fucking game, Blizzard. That shouldn't happen.
What.... your team went 40:1 and lost? How is that even possible? How godly did the other team do objectives, or how much did yours ignore them?
No, we were the 1.
So, where exactly was the broken bit? Without any further explanation, it sounds like your team got utterly dominated, and lost, which is in working-as-designed territory.
I guess he's saying such a thorough stomp shouldn't be possible? Which, like... no, that should certainly be possible if you have a pants-on-head lineup or they're just way more organized than you. You can't eliminate outliers like that that easily because they're exactly that--outliers. That shouldn't (and I'd hazard a guess, doesn't) happen normally, and correcting for that wouldn't be correcting for the general case, which isn't really a good way to go about it.
Their healing potential greatly outscaled our damage abilities. They had Brightwing, Lili, and ETC, to our Tass Rehgar. Even with me poking away at them as Valla (and a dedicated effort by our dps Sylv) we only were able to kill one of them (Brightwing) the entire match, and that was when she dove past a keep to try to secure a kill on our beleaguered Anub.
Also I feel like Anub is worthless as a tank right now. He doesn't really feel well equipped to handle being the tip of the spear in a teamfight.
People have been saying they play Anub as a stun-centric assassin, and that makes more sense than him being a tank. There are multiple supports less squishy than him.
Generalísimo de Fuerzas Armadas de la República Argentina
0
HacksawJ. Duggan Esq.Wrestler at LawRegistered Userregular
Like, I keep getting put in games where it feels like the damage can't stick because healers are so strong right now. It's honestly maddening.
Like, healers are super strong because the role of "remove damage" isn't particularly fun unless you're overtuned to do it, and Blizzard really likes the idea of having fun characters who are primarily about damage removal.
Though in that situation, it sounds like your team just got behind and never managed to fully commit to a fight, because the burst healing potential and huge shielding provided by Tass+Rehgar should be enough, playing field equal, to kill a squishy through Brightwing+Lili, especially since Tass and Rehgar also bring a significant amount of damage in fights.
It's not uncommon for like people with an MMR in the 1000s to be teamed up with people in the 2000s and, well, then it becomes a matter of who has the weakest link in their chain.
Not fun.
+3
The Escape Goatincorrigible ruminantthey/themRegistered Userregular
You want good healing, not bad. Bad healing brings you to DotA where nobody wants to play support because all the heals except Omniknight's are pants (and there's a reason Omniknight is one of the highest winrate heroes in pubs). It also prolongs fights in HotS and I really like that, because there's nothing more infuriating than building up the whole game only for the teamfight to be over in a few seconds.
Also, it feels nice when you're comfortable enough in a game to go full DPS Muradin, with perfect storm, haymaker, and thunderstrike. And haymakering Jaina/Sylvanas is so fun. Almost as fun as totally not seeing @kime whiff a frostbolt on an afk Jaina :P
Yeah, with supports so stronk I don't understand why the matchmaker will continue to make games that are 5 assassins (or 4 + 1 warrior) against a team with 1-2 supports.
Like, just fuckin' make me wait 15 or whatever more seconds to make sure you can make teams that are going to be fun to play with and against.
My last 5 games have all been decidedly one-sided because the other side had no healers at all.
+1
The Escape Goatincorrigible ruminantthey/themRegistered Userregular
Yeah, with supports so stronk I don't understand why the matchmaker will continue to make games that are 5 assassins (or 4 + 1 warrior) against a team with 1-2 supports.
Like, just fuckin' make me wait 15 or whatever more seconds to make sure you can make teams that are going to be fun to play with and against.
My last 5 games have all been decidedly one-sided because the other side had no healers at all.
Pretty sure they explicitly said they'll be patching the matchmaker so that no-support teams will only goes against no-support teams.
Yeah, with supports so stronk I don't understand why the matchmaker will continue to make games that are 5 assassins (or 4 + 1 warrior) against a team with 1-2 supports.
Like, just fuckin' make me wait 15 or whatever more seconds to make sure you can make teams that are going to be fun to play with and against.
My last 5 games have all been decidedly one-sided because the other side had no healers at all.
Pretty sure they explicitly said they'll be patching the matchmaker so that no-support teams will only goes against no-support teams.
Unless they said it months ago and it's just "Blizzard time", I don't understand what took them so long.
You want good healing, not bad. Bad healing brings you to DotA where nobody wants to play support because all the heals except Omniknight's are pants (and there's a reason Omniknight is one of the highest winrate heroes in pubs). It also prolongs fights in HotS and I really like that, because there's nothing more infuriating than building up the whole game only for the teamfight to be over in a few seconds.
Also, it feels nice when you're comfortable enough in a game to go full DPS Muradin, with perfect storm, haymaker, and thunderstrike. And haymakering Jaina/Sylvanas is so fun. Almost as fun as totally not seeing @kime whiff a frostbolt on an afk Jaina :P
Right, almost! Because that deinotely didn't happen. Boy would it have been embarrassing!
Fix your fucking game, Blizzard. That shouldn't happen.
What.... your team went 40:1 and lost? How is that even possible? How godly did the other team do objectives, or how much did yours ignore them?
No, we were the 1.
So, where exactly was the broken bit? Without any further explanation, it sounds like your team got utterly dominated, and lost, which is in working-as-designed territory.
I guess he's saying such a thorough stomp shouldn't be possible? Which, like... no, that should certainly be possible if you have a pants-on-head lineup or they're just way more organized than you. You can't eliminate outliers like that that easily because they're exactly that--outliers. That shouldn't (and I'd hazard a guess, doesn't) happen normally, and correcting for that wouldn't be correcting for the general case, which isn't really a good way to go about it.
Their healing potential greatly outscaled our damage abilities. They had Brightwing, Lili, and ETC, to our Tass Rehgar. Even with me poking away at them as Valla (and a dedicated effort by our dps Sylv) we only were able to kill one of them (Brightwing) the entire match, and that was when she dove past a keep to try to secure a kill on our beleaguered Anub.
Also I feel like Anub is worthless as a tank right now. He doesn't really feel well equipped to handle being the tip of the spear in a teamfight.
Its rough because you need to focus damage on one target to dismember dual healer teams
Yeah, with supports so stronk I don't understand why the matchmaker will continue to make games that are 5 assassins (or 4 + 1 warrior) against a team with 1-2 supports.
Like, just fuckin' make me wait 15 or whatever more seconds to make sure you can make teams that are going to be fun to play with and against.
My last 5 games have all been decidedly one-sided because the other side had no healers at all.
Pretty sure they explicitly said they'll be patching the matchmaker so that no-support teams will only goes against no-support teams.
Unless they said it months ago and it's just "Blizzard time", I don't understand what took them so long.
And sometimes the team with the ghetto comp wins anyway (in Quick Match, at least) because they just end up outplaying the other team for whatever reason.
In the sense that I probably have around a 50% QM win rate, it seems like the matchmaker is doing an OK job. I don't think matchmaking in any MOBA can ever guarantee a complete absence of total routs, especially because it's inherent in the nature of these games for a team that's behind in levels to have a diminished capacity to win the game (in general). Sometimes that disadvantage just spirals out of control.
You want good healing, not bad. Bad healing brings you to DotA where nobody wants to play support because all the heals except Omniknight's are pants (and there's a reason Omniknight is one of the highest winrate heroes in pubs). It also prolongs fights in HotS and I really like that, because there's nothing more infuriating than building up the whole game only for the teamfight to be over in a few seconds.
Also, it feels nice when you're comfortable enough in a game to go full DPS Muradin, with perfect storm, haymaker, and thunderstrike. And haymakering Jaina/Sylvanas is so fun. Almost as fun as totally not seeing @kime whiff a frostbolt on an afk Jaina :P
???
Every hero with even a remotely usable "heal this ally" ability tops the pub charts in DotA 2, beyond just Omni. Omni also has far less healing than Dazzle, Undying, Necro, and Warlock, so I'm not quite sure what your point is. Support is also picked often in DotA, and any issues it has are more to do with the way gold and scaling works than supports being inherently worse.
I don't think it's axiomatic that you want good healing. There is a reason that unlike every other role, an advantage in # of support heroes results in a ridiculous winrate increase, and it's because while tons of healers suffer diminishing returns, any individual healer is both significantly overtuned for in-fight healing (e.g. a healer will contribute more healing+damage than an assassin will contribute damage) and offer a massive increase in sustain for a number of heroes. The design philosophy League has, where supports tend to set up opportunities or add significant short-term damage reduction or shielding, has several advantages over simply being able to negate two assassins worth of damage. It's a matter of opinion, nothing more or less.
i mean he's not wrong in that a game shouldn't go 40-1, because you should really let the game just be over before it reaches that point
perhaps if there was some sort of
surrender feature
My "surrender feature" in a game that becomes truly beyond hopeless is usually to alt tab and let the last few minutes run its course.
Annoying when its pointless, but still takes forever because a few people keep trying and slow it down, causing you to get the AFK warning repeatedly. Yeah come backs happen, but not when its 4 levels down, and you are a team of only assassins versus a balanced team.
That's a feature in DotA, but I have never heard of it as a feature in HotS.
I ate an engineer
0
HacksawJ. Duggan Esq.Wrestler at LawRegistered Userregular
My main beef is that even with our very reasonable and decent healing and respectable damage we could barely dent them. Like, they were playing more or less as well as we were, but we just could not get the damage to stick. And ticks or scratches we made were almost instantly wiped away by Lili/Brightwing, and their respective perks/abilities. It's insanely infuriating to watch all of your damage get poured onto one target, only to have it negated in full merely seconds later. I nearly tore my hair out in frustration.
You asked why healers prevented you from doing lasting damage, were told that healers are strong by design, and responding by continuing to complain that, essentially, healers are too good at preventing lasting damage. If that's frustrating, Smite, League, and (to a lesser extent) DotA are all games in the same genre that minimize the impact of healing for precisely that reason. Morello hates healers even more than you do, trust me. If you dislike how healing can make mediocre engagements and small differences in skill into 4-0 fights to the point you want to tear your hair out, HotS is definitively not the MOBA for you, given the only recent change they've made to a healer made him better at healing and worse at having impact outside of damage removal. Blizzard's balance changes and hero design has all but stated that the majority of healing supports are there entirely to throw out zero damage CC and mitigate a significant amount of the damage any assassin can dish out, if not all of it (in the case of e.g. Malfuion versus burst that doesn't 100% a hero).
You asked why healers prevented you from doing lasting damage, were told that healers are strong by design, and responding by continuing to complain that, essentially, healers are too good at preventing lasting damage. If that's frustrating, Smite, League, and (to a lesser extent) DotA are all games in the same genre that minimize the impact of healing for precisely that reason. Morello hates healers even more than you do, trust me. If you dislike how healing can make mediocre engagements and small differences in skill into 4-0 fights to the point you want to tear your hair out, HotS is definitively not the MOBA for you, given the only recent change they've made to a healer made him better at healing and worse at having impact outside of damage removal. Blizzard's balance changes and hero design has all but stated that the majority of healing supports are there entirely to throw out zero damage CC and mitigate a significant amount of the damage any assassin can dish out, if not all of it (in the case of e.g. Malfuion versus burst that doesn't 100% a hero).
Honestly, it's not that bad. League has often had shitty, unfun support mechanics, but HOTS doesn't, basically. I've never been on a good team and felt like we couldn't damage through the enemy healing. I mean, hell, healers tend to have good tools for fucking up the enemy healers, whether polymorph, silence, 700 damage crits, etc. It is a blizzard game, so you're definitely supposed to use CC to help mitigate enemy HPS long enough to kill someone, such as by using status on the healer, or positioning, etc.
Now, what is fucked is the matchmaker not making even the most token attempt to do anything useful whatsoever, so there is no meaningful attempt to put together a sane team comp or vaguely balance skill levels, so you still get imbalanced matches in a game that has a lot of mechanics to prevent them, (albeit caveating some map mechanics are too powerful, IMHO).
Yeah... If they have two healers, you basically need to disable at least one of them somehow. There's tons of tools to do so. I mean as it was said, rhegar is one of the strongest healers in the game and his ults are both pretty amazing - you can either help your team focus someone down, or basically save someone from the brink of death..
Tassadar's shields also mitigate a ton of damage, so it was probably a case of mmr mismatch. At what time did you play?
I am sure others have noticed this. I love when you get two heroes from the same universe, that are enemies, on the same team. They have a little argument. The ones I have seen so far are: Kerrigan-Reynor, Arthas-Uthar and Tychus-Nova.
Are there any others that people know about?
+2
FiggyFighter of the night manChampion of the sunRegistered Userregular
At 40-1 you weren't playing "more or less as well".
At 40-1 you had many more problems than just less healing.
And I'm not sure what this " poking away as Valla " is all about. This is Valla, we're talking about.
Your team most definitely was focusing ETC, correct?
I am sure others have noticed this. I love when you get two heroes from the same universe, that are enemies, on the same team. They have a little argument. The ones I have seen so far are: Kerrigan-Reynor, Arthas-Uthar and Tychus-Nova.
Are there any others that people know about?
Arthas: You....
Sylvanas: Silence, lest I tear your tongue out (paraphrased)
I sort of like totally insane comps in quick match. Played against an Azmodan / Gazlowe / Sylvanas ... And I don't remember the others because that was just too funny. They were able to push like nuts, but they sort of evaporated in team fights against a two support team. The weird stuff, man. It's interesting.
I am sure others have noticed this. I love when you get two heroes from the same universe, that are enemies, on the same team. They have a little argument. The ones I have seen so far are: Kerrigan-Reynor, Arthas-Uthar and Tychus-Nova.
Are there any others that people know about?
Tyrael and Uther have a good one along the lines of "Ready to dispense some JUSTICE, friend?" I can't remember the response at all, but it's just two JUSTICE bros JUSTICE bro-ing it up.
I am sure others have noticed this. I love when you get two heroes from the same universe, that are enemies, on the same team. They have a little argument. The ones I have seen so far are: Kerrigan-Reynor, Arthas-Uthar and Tychus-Nova.
Are there any others that people know about?
There are also some special dialogues involving killing related characters on the opposing team. I know Raynor says something like "Sarah, it didn't have to end this way" after killing Kerrigan. Or when I was playing Zagara (I think it was her; some Zerg anyway) and killed a protoss like Tassadar or Zeratul, she said something along the lines of enjoying hearing Protoss bones crack.
It's not character specific, but I also laughed the first time I was low on health after a fight, and an allied Gazlowe said something like "Whoa, you look like crap. Go hit up a healing well." Well stated, Gaz. I love goblin talk.
The character banter in the game is pretty amusing.
I am sure others have noticed this. I love when you get two heroes from the same universe, that are enemies, on the same team. They have a little argument. The ones I have seen so far are: Kerrigan-Reynor, Arthas-Uthar and Tychus-Nova.
Are there any others that people know about?
There are also some special dialogues involving killing related characters on the opposing team. I know Raynor says something like "Sarah, it didn't have to end this way" after killing Kerrigan. Or when I was playing Zagara (I think it was her; some Zerg anyway) and killed a protoss like Tassadar or Zeratul, she said something along the lines of enjoying hearing Protoss bones crack.
It's not character specific, but I also laughed the first time I was low on health after a fight, and an allied Gazlowe said something like "Whoa, you look like crap. Go hit up a healing well." Well stated, Gaz. I love goblin talk.
The character banter in the game is pretty amusing.
The banter is fantastic.
I like when you have Sonya and Valla on a team. Sonya says, "There are two of us here are the enemies stronger?" Something like that.
Posts
So, where exactly was the broken bit? Without any further explanation, it sounds like your team got utterly dominated, and lost, which is in working-as-designed territory.
I guess he's saying such a thorough stomp shouldn't be possible? Which, like... no, that should certainly be possible if you have a pants-on-head lineup or they're just way more organized than you. You can't eliminate outliers like that that easily because they're exactly that--outliers. That shouldn't (and I'd hazard a guess, doesn't) happen normally, and correcting for that wouldn't be correcting for the general case, which isn't really a good way to go about it.
Their healing potential greatly outscaled our damage abilities. They had Brightwing, Lili, and ETC, to our Tass Rehgar. Even with me poking away at them as Valla (and a dedicated effort by our dps Sylv) we only were able to kill one of them (Brightwing) the entire match, and that was when she dove past a keep to try to secure a kill on our beleaguered Anub.
Also I feel like Anub is worthless as a tank right now. He doesn't really feel well equipped to handle being the tip of the spear in a teamfight.
People have been saying they play Anub as a stun-centric assassin, and that makes more sense than him being a tank. There are multiple supports less squishy than him.
Like, healers are super strong because the role of "remove damage" isn't particularly fun unless you're overtuned to do it, and Blizzard really likes the idea of having fun characters who are primarily about damage removal.
Though in that situation, it sounds like your team just got behind and never managed to fully commit to a fight, because the burst healing potential and huge shielding provided by Tass+Rehgar should be enough, playing field equal, to kill a squishy through Brightwing+Lili, especially since Tass and Rehgar also bring a significant amount of damage in fights.
Not fun.
Also, it feels nice when you're comfortable enough in a game to go full DPS Muradin, with perfect storm, haymaker, and thunderstrike. And haymakering Jaina/Sylvanas is so fun. Almost as fun as totally not seeing @kime whiff a frostbolt on an afk Jaina :P
Like, just fuckin' make me wait 15 or whatever more seconds to make sure you can make teams that are going to be fun to play with and against.
My last 5 games have all been decidedly one-sided because the other side had no healers at all.
Pretty sure they explicitly said they'll be patching the matchmaker so that no-support teams will only goes against no-support teams.
Unless they said it months ago and it's just "Blizzard time", I don't understand what took them so long.
Right, almost! Because that deinotely didn't happen. Boy would it have been embarrassing!
:P
3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
Steam profile
Its rough because you need to focus damage on one target to dismember dual healer teams
Anub isn't in a good spot either
Streaming 8PST on weeknights
It was earlier this month.
In the sense that I probably have around a 50% QM win rate, it seems like the matchmaker is doing an OK job. I don't think matchmaking in any MOBA can ever guarantee a complete absence of total routs, especially because it's inherent in the nature of these games for a team that's behind in levels to have a diminished capacity to win the game (in general). Sometimes that disadvantage just spirals out of control.
perhaps if there was some sort of
surrender feature
[insert hissing]
???
Every hero with even a remotely usable "heal this ally" ability tops the pub charts in DotA 2, beyond just Omni. Omni also has far less healing than Dazzle, Undying, Necro, and Warlock, so I'm not quite sure what your point is. Support is also picked often in DotA, and any issues it has are more to do with the way gold and scaling works than supports being inherently worse.
I don't think it's axiomatic that you want good healing. There is a reason that unlike every other role, an advantage in # of support heroes results in a ridiculous winrate increase, and it's because while tons of healers suffer diminishing returns, any individual healer is both significantly overtuned for in-fight healing (e.g. a healer will contribute more healing+damage than an assassin will contribute damage) and offer a massive increase in sustain for a number of heroes. The design philosophy League has, where supports tend to set up opportunities or add significant short-term damage reduction or shielding, has several advantages over simply being able to negate two assassins worth of damage. It's a matter of opinion, nothing more or less.
Annoying when its pointless, but still takes forever because a few people keep trying and slow it down, causing you to get the AFK warning repeatedly. Yeah come backs happen, but not when its 4 levels down, and you are a team of only assassins versus a balanced team.
Well if the whole team just alt-f4s, the game is counted as a loss after 30 seconds, isn't it?
You asked why healers prevented you from doing lasting damage, were told that healers are strong by design, and responding by continuing to complain that, essentially, healers are too good at preventing lasting damage. If that's frustrating, Smite, League, and (to a lesser extent) DotA are all games in the same genre that minimize the impact of healing for precisely that reason. Morello hates healers even more than you do, trust me. If you dislike how healing can make mediocre engagements and small differences in skill into 4-0 fights to the point you want to tear your hair out, HotS is definitively not the MOBA for you, given the only recent change they've made to a healer made him better at healing and worse at having impact outside of damage removal. Blizzard's balance changes and hero design has all but stated that the majority of healing supports are there entirely to throw out zero damage CC and mitigate a significant amount of the damage any assassin can dish out, if not all of it (in the case of e.g. Malfuion versus burst that doesn't 100% a hero).
Honestly, it's not that bad. League has often had shitty, unfun support mechanics, but HOTS doesn't, basically. I've never been on a good team and felt like we couldn't damage through the enemy healing. I mean, hell, healers tend to have good tools for fucking up the enemy healers, whether polymorph, silence, 700 damage crits, etc. It is a blizzard game, so you're definitely supposed to use CC to help mitigate enemy HPS long enough to kill someone, such as by using status on the healer, or positioning, etc.
Now, what is fucked is the matchmaker not making even the most token attempt to do anything useful whatsoever, so there is no meaningful attempt to put together a sane team comp or vaguely balance skill levels, so you still get imbalanced matches in a game that has a lot of mechanics to prevent them, (albeit caveating some map mechanics are too powerful, IMHO).
Tassadar's shields also mitigate a ton of damage, so it was probably a case of mmr mismatch. At what time did you play?
Are there any others that people know about?
At 40-1 you had many more problems than just less healing.
And I'm not sure what this " poking away as Valla " is all about. This is Valla, we're talking about.
Your team most definitely was focusing ETC, correct?
Arthas: You....
Sylvanas: Silence, lest I tear your tongue out (paraphrased)
It's a nice touch.
Tyrael has a specific greeting as well
When I queue up as not-DPS, we get two tanks, two healers, and a specialist.
:?
3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
Steam profile
I'd like to check a box that I agree to longer wait times in order to get a better comp...
And then someone else goes "scroll the mouse wheel..."
"oh. thanks."
The matchmaking in this game works by not working at all. :rotate:
Edit: So yes, I would legit love an opt-in for better queues, even if it meant long queue times.
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
Steam :- E. Honda
3DS :- 3797-6812-1801
Tyrael and Uther have a good one along the lines of "Ready to dispense some JUSTICE, friend?" I can't remember the response at all, but it's just two JUSTICE bros JUSTICE bro-ing it up.
It's not character specific, but I also laughed the first time I was low on health after a fight, and an allied Gazlowe said something like "Whoa, you look like crap. Go hit up a healing well." Well stated, Gaz. I love goblin talk.
The character banter in the game is pretty amusing.
The banter is fantastic.
I like when you have Sonya and Valla on a team. Sonya says, "There are two of us here are the enemies stronger?" Something like that.