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Dragon Age Thread – The third and final story DLC out now on PS4/XBO/PC

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  • ShadowenShadowen Snores in the morning Registered User regular
    He's in Legacy.

  • AegeriAegeri Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    Are the DLCs in DA2 easily missable?

    Also I have given up trying to use Shale in DA:O. I got boned by the RNG on drops for her crystals, so as a main tank I won't be able to use her for it until I can find/buy some later in the game. I actually did not know that DA:O had random drops for certain items, but now I do! This is apparently a thing for Shale because they are DLC and so some of their stuff/equipment turns up at random as opposed to always being fixed :(

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  • CorsiniCorsini Registered User regular
    Aegeri wrote: »
    I have not played the DLC in 2, but I do own it from the same bundle that gave me DA:O. Which DLC is he in? This was the single most baffling and confusing part of DA:I to me until I figured this out. I am very curious to see how this starts.

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  • shoeboxjeddyshoeboxjeddy Registered User regular
    edited November 25
    Aegeri wrote: »
    None of that has any real relevance on my point. I just finished playing DA:I and I'm playing Origins right now. DA:I feels much more like Origins did than DA2 does, for a multitude of reasons from feel, encounter design, large expansive environments, set up, story, choices etc. Also I'm not sure I agree with you about Varric was the most popular companion, from a quick look around (he definitely was in DA2 though) I can't find any evidence of that. I did discover in DA:I that nearly 32% of players made a female inquisitor, which I think is one of the higher numbers for a first time playthrough in a Bioware game.

    Edit: Why not make an equally silly list as you did to prove a point?

    DAO: Can choose to be a variety of different races
    DA2: Human (that's it)
    DAI: Can be a variety of different races PLUS you can be a Qunari

    DAO: Has a large expansive story over a wide variety of places and environments
    DA2: Stuck in Kirkwall on the same 7 maps
    DAI: Has a large expansive story over a wide variety of places and environments

    DAO: There is an overall meta threat to the world from the Darkspawn
    DA2: Everything that happens is in one particular city over a period of 10 years. No major stakes*
    DAI: There is an overall meta story threat from the demonic rifts

    etc

    Edit: One last, but this makes DA:I worse for it

    DAO: Has a kind of bland companion system where they either like you or hate you, with hating you just doing nothing except having them leave in a huff
    DA2: One of biowares best companion systems, where being their rival or friend made a major impact on their view of you
    DAI: Goes back to the bland companion system where they either like you or no interesting story content for you :/

    As I've mentioned, I just sunk 100+ hours in DA:I and am right now playing DA:O. I think I can notice that DA:I is very much a course correction and an attempt to bring a lot more of Origins back into the franchise, even if they stuck to their guns on two of the bigger changes - the combat system and the dialog wheel.

    *Though in fairness you could argue DA:I heavily retcons this to be otherwise
    The main villain of Inquisition was introduced in 2's DLC!

    I have not played the DLC in 2, but I do own it from the same bundle that gave me DA:O. Which DLC is he in? This was the single most baffling and confusing part of DA:I to me until I figured this out. I am very curious to see how this starts.

    The DLCs of 2 are, imo, very interesting/good. Mainly because they had some dev time, it wasn't "release the DLC by Christmas or you're all fired". Legacy is a dangerous dungeon delve that culminates with a boss battle against Corypheus, it also relates to the Hawkes as a family. Mark of the Assassin is kind of a gimmick DLC in that it's completely built around Felicia Day's Dragon Age character. If you like her, it's a great standalone adventure. If she gets on your nerves, you will strain your eyes from rolling them. Finally, Exiled Prince adds another companion, which is nice just as an alternate viewpoint, but he's nowhere near one of the most popular team members.

    I will agree with you in the sense that DA:I was in some ways meant to be the "please everyone in the fanbase" game. I don't think it succeeded at that, but some choices were clearly good (race choice coming back). I'll disagree with you in the sense that "improving something that had to be rushed in DA2 because of the realities of development" somehow equals "just like DA: O!" The stakes in DA2 are apparent from the very first cutscene, I truly don't know what you're getting at there. Cassandra says that the events of DA2 have dire import for the world state at large, which is why she wants to find Hawke. Sure enough, that's completely true in DA:I. DA2's story being set in one place was the point of the game and the only way to get a game done in the ridiculous due date imposed. It might not be your specific preference, but many people prefer for it that exact reason, that you're not a chosen one fighting the end of the world and a sky beam at the end.

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  • AegeriAegeri Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    I really like Felicia Day, which is another reason why I got the DLC for DA2 and decided to go a full playthrough of all of the games. So I'm not going to have an issue there!
    It might not be your specific preference, but many people prefer for it that exact reason, that you're not a chosen one fighting the end of the world and a sky beam at the end.

    I 100% get that, but it's just weird because the way Dragon Age Inquisition subsequently treats Hawke is like the polar opposite intent of DA2. In fact, had I not played Dragon Age 2 or knew anything about it, the whole thing with Hawke would not lead me to believe that and I would be like "Wow, this person is super important! I wonder what they did?". This is not really a fault of DA2 though in fairness to it, but a really strange decision by Bioware in Inquisition. Much like the cutscene of mage hawk whacking a gigantic daemon with a staff. It just doesn't really make that much sense unless they have a very different opinion about how important Hawke is supposed to be.

    Like just consider the framing of how they are introduced in Inquisition, where you are really supposed to think you're meeting someone who is very important.

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  • GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    Aegeri wrote: »
    Yeah, I don't think Bioware have been in a good state for a while and Anthem's tremendous flop would have been massively demoralizing. I've never seen a triple AAA game go from full price to $4 fully new at retail as fast as it did. Bioware badly needs a course correcting win from either Dragon Age 4 or Mass Effect 4. I'm not confident they can do this under EA anymore and with how much gross mismanagement has happened at the top. I am not going to lie, I'm not confident in Dragon Age 4 at all, going from a weird heist concept to probably back to something more akin to Origins/3 following that storyline through, I just don't think they know what kind of game they want to make anymore. My understanding was the heist game was supposed to be some multiplayer thing as well, which makes me wonder how much of it they could salvage for a single player game. Additionally, I just can't believe EA will shake their desire to try to turn everything into shitty GaaS models in some way - especially now that they've had a high profile failure in the new Battlefield to add to the pile of problems they are accruing.

    I’m not even sure we can blame EA at this point; anthem had almost a whole console generation of dev time and we all know how that turned out.

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  • AegeriAegeri Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    Gaddez wrote: »
    Aegeri wrote: »
    Yeah, I don't think Bioware have been in a good state for a while and Anthem's tremendous flop would have been massively demoralizing. I've never seen a triple AAA game go from full price to $4 fully new at retail as fast as it did. Bioware badly needs a course correcting win from either Dragon Age 4 or Mass Effect 4. I'm not confident they can do this under EA anymore and with how much gross mismanagement has happened at the top. I am not going to lie, I'm not confident in Dragon Age 4 at all, going from a weird heist concept to probably back to something more akin to Origins/3 following that storyline through, I just don't think they know what kind of game they want to make anymore. My understanding was the heist game was supposed to be some multiplayer thing as well, which makes me wonder how much of it they could salvage for a single player game. Additionally, I just can't believe EA will shake their desire to try to turn everything into shitty GaaS models in some way - especially now that they've had a high profile failure in the new Battlefield to add to the pile of problems they are accruing.

    I’m not even sure we can blame EA at this point; anthem had almost a whole console generation of dev time and we all know how that turned out.

    That's a good point.

    It's a bit of an inherent reflex for me to shit on EA.

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  • TurambarTurambar Avocado at law Registered User regular
    Gaddez wrote: »
    Aegeri wrote: »
    Yeah, I don't think Bioware have been in a good state for a while and Anthem's tremendous flop would have been massively demoralizing. I've never seen a triple AAA game go from full price to $4 fully new at retail as fast as it did. Bioware badly needs a course correcting win from either Dragon Age 4 or Mass Effect 4. I'm not confident they can do this under EA anymore and with how much gross mismanagement has happened at the top. I am not going to lie, I'm not confident in Dragon Age 4 at all, going from a weird heist concept to probably back to something more akin to Origins/3 following that storyline through, I just don't think they know what kind of game they want to make anymore. My understanding was the heist game was supposed to be some multiplayer thing as well, which makes me wonder how much of it they could salvage for a single player game. Additionally, I just can't believe EA will shake their desire to try to turn everything into shitty GaaS models in some way - especially now that they've had a high profile failure in the new Battlefield to add to the pile of problems they are accruing.

    I’m not even sure we can blame EA at this point; anthem had almost a whole console generation of dev time and we all know how that turned out.

    Anthem was still super rushed though

    It was "technically" under development for a long time, but the game we got was almost entirely made in the last 1.5 years before release

    They restarted the project many times, until they decided to throw a lot of resources and "bioware magic" at it to get it out the door

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  • GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    Aegeri wrote: »
    Gaddez wrote: »
    Aegeri wrote: »
    Yeah, I don't think Bioware have been in a good state for a while and Anthem's tremendous flop would have been massively demoralizing. I've never seen a triple AAA game go from full price to $4 fully new at retail as fast as it did. Bioware badly needs a course correcting win from either Dragon Age 4 or Mass Effect 4. I'm not confident they can do this under EA anymore and with how much gross mismanagement has happened at the top. I am not going to lie, I'm not confident in Dragon Age 4 at all, going from a weird heist concept to probably back to something more akin to Origins/3 following that storyline through, I just don't think they know what kind of game they want to make anymore. My understanding was the heist game was supposed to be some multiplayer thing as well, which makes me wonder how much of it they could salvage for a single player game. Additionally, I just can't believe EA will shake their desire to try to turn everything into shitty GaaS models in some way - especially now that they've had a high profile failure in the new Battlefield to add to the pile of problems they are accruing.

    I’m not even sure we can blame EA at this point; anthem had almost a whole console generation of dev time and we all know how that turned out.

    That's a good point.

    It's a bit of an inherent reflex for me to shit on EA.

    Like anthem is an example of a time when ea was justified in putting their foot down and making BioWare finish the damn thing; they’d been funding a project for six and a half years that had no actual timetable for completion and *nobody* wanted this thing to be the next Duke Nukem 4ever.

    That it was a pos is entirely on BioWare management and how they wasted literal years navel gazing.

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  • GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    Turambar wrote: »
    Gaddez wrote: »
    Aegeri wrote: »
    Yeah, I don't think Bioware have been in a good state for a while and Anthem's tremendous flop would have been massively demoralizing. I've never seen a triple AAA game go from full price to $4 fully new at retail as fast as it did. Bioware badly needs a course correcting win from either Dragon Age 4 or Mass Effect 4. I'm not confident they can do this under EA anymore and with how much gross mismanagement has happened at the top. I am not going to lie, I'm not confident in Dragon Age 4 at all, going from a weird heist concept to probably back to something more akin to Origins/3 following that storyline through, I just don't think they know what kind of game they want to make anymore. My understanding was the heist game was supposed to be some multiplayer thing as well, which makes me wonder how much of it they could salvage for a single player game. Additionally, I just can't believe EA will shake their desire to try to turn everything into shitty GaaS models in some way - especially now that they've had a high profile failure in the new Battlefield to add to the pile of problems they are accruing.

    I’m not even sure we can blame EA at this point; anthem had almost a whole console generation of dev time and we all know how that turned out.

    Anthem was still super rushed though

    It was "technically" under development for a long time, but the game we got was almost entirely made in the last 1.5 years before release

    They restarted the project many times, until they decided to throw a lot of resources and "bioware magic" at it to get it out the door

    This isn’t the ringing defence you think it is; BioWare wasted years without any sort of actual overarching plan or goal and as a result the devs and writers were the last people to have any idea what the hell Anthem was supposed to be.

    Forgive me if I’m skeptical about the upcoming projects given how so much of what they’ve put out has been a debacle over the past several years .

  • TurambarTurambar Avocado at law Registered User regular
    Gaddez wrote: »
    Turambar wrote: »
    Gaddez wrote: »
    Aegeri wrote: »
    Yeah, I don't think Bioware have been in a good state for a while and Anthem's tremendous flop would have been massively demoralizing. I've never seen a triple AAA game go from full price to $4 fully new at retail as fast as it did. Bioware badly needs a course correcting win from either Dragon Age 4 or Mass Effect 4. I'm not confident they can do this under EA anymore and with how much gross mismanagement has happened at the top. I am not going to lie, I'm not confident in Dragon Age 4 at all, going from a weird heist concept to probably back to something more akin to Origins/3 following that storyline through, I just don't think they know what kind of game they want to make anymore. My understanding was the heist game was supposed to be some multiplayer thing as well, which makes me wonder how much of it they could salvage for a single player game. Additionally, I just can't believe EA will shake their desire to try to turn everything into shitty GaaS models in some way - especially now that they've had a high profile failure in the new Battlefield to add to the pile of problems they are accruing.

    I’m not even sure we can blame EA at this point; anthem had almost a whole console generation of dev time and we all know how that turned out.

    Anthem was still super rushed though

    It was "technically" under development for a long time, but the game we got was almost entirely made in the last 1.5 years before release

    They restarted the project many times, until they decided to throw a lot of resources and "bioware magic" at it to get it out the door

    This isn’t the ringing defence you think it is; BioWare wasted years without any sort of actual overarching plan or goal and as a result the devs and writers were the last people to have any idea what the hell Anthem was supposed to be.

    Forgive me if I’m skeptical about the upcoming projects given how so much of what they’ve put out has been a debacle over the past several years .

    Not a defense at all. Just saying Anthem is another example of a rushed Bioware game, not the opposite

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  • AegeriAegeri Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    I got to the forest in Origins.

    Now I remember why I wanted Shale.

    Fucking. Chain. Overwhelms.

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  • KamarKamar Registered User regular
    Sometimes I try to pin down what exactly it is that made me so apathetic towards DAI that despite being kind of a spree-gamer who gets really addicted to what I'm playing, when the game crashed trying to go through the Eluvian for Trespasser I just uninstalled it and read what happened in a wiki instead of booting it again.

    I guess it must be entirely down to the characters, since I found DAO environments tedious too but still enjoyed it enough to play it multiple times. And I can't think of any other major complaints.

  • AegeriAegeri Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    I love a lot about Dragon Age Origins, but the bad parts are so bad that I remember why I didn't bother playing through the whole game more than once. The fade part of the Mages Circle, these endless overwhelm werewolves and the deep roads have almost put me off finishing the game. I am pushing through, but as I mentioned earlier I am playing Divinity Original Sin at the same time. It's night and day between the two games. Deep, incredibly satisfying tactical combat in Divinity, vs controlling chickens with their heads cut off that barely do what you ask half the time (and then fail to do it correctly the other half). Then again, it's very satisfying to just nuke a room with a bunch of huge AoE spells - but man when the AI decides it didn't want to follow orders it's beyond frustrating.

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  • GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    Aegeri wrote: »
    I love a lot about Dragon Age Origins, but the bad parts are so bad that I remember why I didn't bother playing through the whole game more than once. The fade part of the Mages Circle, these endless overwhelm werewolves and the deep roads have almost put me off finishing the game. I am pushing through, but as I mentioned earlier I am playing Divinity Original Sin at the same time. It's night and day between the two games. Deep, incredibly satisfying tactical combat in Divinity, vs controlling chickens with their heads cut off that barely do what you ask half the time (and then fail to do it correctly the other half). Then again, it's very satisfying to just nuke a room with a bunch of huge AoE spells - but man when the AI decides it didn't want to follow orders it's beyond frustrating.

    Pretty much the reason that I will fight people on DA2 >DA1 is that the major dungeons (the mage tower, the deeproads, the frostbacks, the forest temple)... just aren't fun to play around with; Like yes, DA2 repeated it's dungeons a bunch but at least they were comparatively short so you didn't need to slog back to town to sell all your loot when you were halfway through a segment.

    Beyond that, while the script commands would let you get super anal with controlling AI behavior, it felt wierd that they didn't put that much effort into establishing more distinct AI for each character when a bunch of them are clearly built with specific archetypes in mind (this is particularly infuriating with Lilianna because for reasons I will never understand her default is melee which is just... why?) and the simple fact that all the effort on making combat fun clearly went into magic as opposed to warriors or rogues.

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  • 3cl1ps33cl1ps3 I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    I think DA2 has inarguably the most fun stuff to use for all of the classes. Warriors and Rogues in DA:O get diddly, and DA:I is a step back in wow factor for all 3 classes but especially for Mages. Granted, I think a lot of the problem there is their comparative lack of experience with Frostbite not letting them go quite as wild as UE for magic.

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  • yossarian_livesyossarian_lives Registered User regular
    Aegeri wrote: »
    I love a lot about Dragon Age Origins, but the bad parts are so bad that I remember why I didn't bother playing through the whole game more than once. The fade part of the Mages Circle, these endless overwhelm werewolves and the deep roads have almost put me off finishing the game. I am pushing through, but as I mentioned earlier I am playing Divinity Original Sin at the same time. It's night and day between the two games. Deep, incredibly satisfying tactical combat in Divinity, vs controlling chickens with their heads cut off that barely do what you ask half the time (and then fail to do it correctly the other half). Then again, it's very satisfying to just nuke a room with a bunch of huge AoE spells - but man when the AI decides it didn't want to follow orders it's beyond frustrating.
    Skip the Fade is an essential mod for any subsequent DAO playthroughs. I would bet good money there are mods that reduce time in the deep roads.

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  • SmrtnikSmrtnik job boli zub Registered User regular
    Aww, deep roads is my favorite part of any DA. Like in inquisition i reached the bottom and was like, that's it?

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  • Trajan45Trajan45 Registered User regular
    edited November 28
    Yeah I remember the fade part really sucking, but otherwise nothing else in DA:O bothered me.

    But then I loved The Decent in DA:I as well.

    Edit: My biggest knock against DA:I was the cities. I wanted to see Orzammer in next gen, and Orlais was pretty weak (especially with the Witcher 3 not far after with amazing cities).

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  • GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    edited November 28
    Trajan45 wrote: »
    Yeah I remember the fade part really sucking, but otherwise nothing else in DA:O bothered me.

    But then I loved The Decent in DA:I as well.

    Edit: My biggest knock against DA:I was the cities. I wanted to see Orzammer in next gen, and Orlais was pretty weak (especially with the Witcher 3 not far after with amazing cities).

    Orlais is basically a strip mall. Which is frankly insane considering that it's the capital of a highly developed nation and the seat of power for the dominant religion in thedas.

    Like frikkin haven is bigger.

    Edit: and to be clear I'm not talking about the big empty field or the forests or whatever the fuck. I'm talking about the actual area where the NPCs are congregating and their are actual structures.

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  • AxenAxen My avatar is Excalibur. Yes, the sword.Registered User regular
    DA4 lost another Creative Director. He had been the one who took over the re-re-boot.

    I don't think DA4 will exactly be make or break for Bioware, but I do believe there are certainly a lot of eyes on the game. Probably makes the job all the more stressful.

    As I said I don't think the game will be make or break for them, but I do think it will be the game that will either fully cement Bioware as "Has-beens" or show a potential Redemption.

    If I am being honest I consider Bioware "has-beens". Mind you I am sure the good folks in the trenches are doing their best, I just don't have a high opinion of the company as a whole. Which does break my heart as Bioware games used to be "Day One no questions asked" for me. Then they became "wait for reviews", followed by "wait for a sale" and finally "I do not care anymore".

    So I hope DA4 is good.

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  • -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    BioWare are definitely ‘has beens’ from the perspective of their old work, since it’s really just a studio name now. The talent from the old days is long gone.

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  • AegeriAegeri Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    edited November 28
    I personally feel they will get two swings at the cherry. One with Dragon Age 4, but I will concede, their second and more important swing will be Mass Effect 4. If they can land ME4, they will probably be forgiven for whatever happens with Dragon Age 4. Miss both and they will I think have lost all their goodwill for good. I am not sure a good Dragon Age will fix things, considering that Mass Effect is the more popular series and I think will carry the biggest expectations. I think they need to land Mass Effect far more than Dragon Age and while I do not know for certain, I believe they'll have that attitude at the studio. So I'm setting my expectations for Dragon Age 4 accordingly and they are not high whatsoever.

    The disappointing city size in Dragon Age Inquisition is a big let down, especially with how the Witcher 3 had these huge sprawling maps that also had significantly built up city areas within them as well. It's especially disappointing when you consider how absolutely massive the Winter Palace is. One location for a quest being significantly bigger than an entire city shows that while Dragon Age Inquisition did a lot of things right, they really did put too much focus and effort into the wrong areas at times.

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  • HappylilElfHappylilElf Registered User regular
    Axen wrote: »
    DA4 lost another Creative Director. He had been the one who took over the re-re-boot.

    I don't think DA4 will exactly be make or break for Bioware, but I do believe there are certainly a lot of eyes on the game. Probably makes the job all the more stressful.

    As I said I don't think the game will be make or break for them, but I do think it will be the game that will either fully cement Bioware as "Has-beens" or show a potential Redemption.

    If I am being honest I consider Bioware "has-beens". Mind you I am sure the good folks in the trenches are doing their best, I just don't have a high opinion of the company as a whole. Which does break my heart as Bioware games used to be "Day One no questions asked" for me. Then they became "wait for reviews", followed by "wait for a sale" and finally "I do not care anymore".

    So I hope DA4 is good.

    I don't think it will make or break Bioware because I think Bioware has already been broken for years.

    Hell, I'd even argue that DA:I is when EA broke them.

    ME: Andromeda showed signs of them trying to come back via the writing but Anthem killed even that hope for me.

    Basically I'll believe Bioware as Bioware still exists once they give me reason to.

    Which sucks, but well, it is what it is.

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  • GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    I’m honestly of the mind that BioWare shot their creative load with Mass effect 2 and to a lesser extent Da2. Everything since then has been… problematic.

    Like the most well received thing they’ve done in the past five years has been a remaster of ME and that’s going back to the Xbox360 era.

    At this point I have very little faith in them as a company.

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  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Registered User regular
    Basically Bioware's future depends on if the studio can finally shake the culture of farting around for years and then frantically trying to patch together a game.

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  • Trajan45Trajan45 Registered User regular
    It all depends on leadership and in that I don't have much hope. The first iteration sounded exactly what I wanted from DA4. However that was canned and a live service game was rebooted instead. Now that one was also canned, but it doesn't give me much confidence that leadership has learned that they should focus on making a good game vs filling out checkboxes to present to EA leadership.

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  • 3cl1ps33cl1ps3 I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    Honestly, as much as EA sucks, I don't think EA broke BioWare. Everything we heard about Anthem and ME:A's development suggests that BioWare's corporate culture has always been fundamentally fucked, and it just finally caught up with them.

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  • SyphonBlueSyphonBlue Registered User regular
    3cl1ps3 wrote: »
    Honestly, as much as EA sucks, I don't think EA broke BioWare. Everything we heard about Anthem and ME:A's development suggests that BioWare's corporate culture has always been fundamentally fucked, and it just finally caught up with them.

    I think Blizzard has shown everyone that the "little guys" are just as capable at fucking everything up as the bigger guys.

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  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Registered User regular
    3cl1ps3 wrote: »
    Honestly, as much as EA sucks, I don't think EA broke BioWare. Everything we heard about Anthem and ME:A's development suggests that BioWare's corporate culture has always been fundamentally fucked, and it just finally caught up with them.

    No matter what you think about Dragon Age II (and I liked it), the fact that it was rushed and limited definitely suggests the root of the problem has been around for a while.

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  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    3cl1ps3 wrote: »
    Honestly, as much as EA sucks, I don't think EA broke BioWare. Everything we heard about Anthem and ME:A's development suggests that BioWare's corporate culture has always been fundamentally fucked, and it just finally caught up with them.

    No matter what you think about Dragon Age II (and I liked it), the fact that it was rushed and limited definitely suggests the root of the problem has been around for a while.

    Is there a Bioware game since Mass Effect where it's dev time wasn't kinda fucked with?

  • 3cl1ps33cl1ps3 I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    Anthem's dev time wasn't fucked with at all. BioWare spent 5 years navel gazing and doing nothing and then tried to churn out a game in 18 months.

    Similarly, ME:A had years of wasted time.

    Gaddez
  • ButtersButters A glass of some milks Registered User regular
    SyphonBlue wrote: »
    3cl1ps3 wrote: »
    Honestly, as much as EA sucks, I don't think EA broke BioWare. Everything we heard about Anthem and ME:A's development suggests that BioWare's corporate culture has always been fundamentally fucked, and it just finally caught up with them.

    I think Blizzard has shown everyone that the "little guys" are just as capable at fucking everything up as the bigger guys.

    What do you mean? Activision acquired Blizzard in 2008 from Vivendi-Universal that owned them since 1998. They haven't been a little guy company in my adult life. Also, Anthem and ME:A's development cycles began well after they were acquired by EA in 2007.

    I think it's fair to wonder what would have been different had BW stayed independent.

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  • 3cl1ps33cl1ps3 I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    Again, Anthem was in development for six years and BioWare chose to make it during the final 18 months after faffing about. That has nothing to do with EA.

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  • 3cl1ps33cl1ps3 I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    re: Blizzard, all reporting suggests that they were a rotten hive of dipshit frat bros basically since day one. Vivendi and Activision may have allowed that to continue to fester but they don't seem to have caused it.

    cloudeagleStrikorGoodKingJayIIIShadowen
  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Registered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    3cl1ps3 wrote: »
    Honestly, as much as EA sucks, I don't think EA broke BioWare. Everything we heard about Anthem and ME:A's development suggests that BioWare's corporate culture has always been fundamentally fucked, and it just finally caught up with them.

    No matter what you think about Dragon Age II (and I liked it), the fact that it was rushed and limited definitely suggests the root of the problem has been around for a while.

    Is there a Bioware game since Mass Effect where it's dev time wasn't kinda fucked with?

    The original Mass Effect was always envisioned as a trilogy telling a single sweeping story, right?

    Maybe that's the reason Bioware was able to keep them consistent even with the company's culture -- having the general idea/structure in place at the beginning eliminated the need or desire to endlessly fuck around during development.

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  • SyphonBlueSyphonBlue Registered User regular
    Butters wrote: »
    SyphonBlue wrote: »
    3cl1ps3 wrote: »
    Honestly, as much as EA sucks, I don't think EA broke BioWare. Everything we heard about Anthem and ME:A's development suggests that BioWare's corporate culture has always been fundamentally fucked, and it just finally caught up with them.

    I think Blizzard has shown everyone that the "little guys" are just as capable at fucking everything up as the bigger guys.

    What do you mean? Activision acquired Blizzard in 2008 from Vivendi-Universal that owned them since 1998. They haven't been a little guy company in my adult life. Also, Anthem and ME:A's development cycles began well after they were acquired by EA in 2007.

    I think it's fair to wonder what would have been different had BW stayed independent.

    You know the "gamer community" doesn't view Blizzard as one of the "big ones" like EA or Activision or Ubisoft. Same for Bioware, and we know due to extensive reporting that Bioware's issues are self-inflicted.

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  • GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    Like I’m legit curious why people would give BioWare the benefit of the doubt on this.

    5 years was enough time to wrangle frostbite into a viable engine, write a compelling plot and create an enjoyable gameplay loop and yet anthem came out just… bad.

    Da4 is being reworked for like the second time.

    ME4 is just baffling since the third game basically precluded the possibility of sequels with it’s ending.

    What exactly am I missing?

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  • DemonStaceyDemonStacey TTODewback's Daughter In love with the TaySwayRegistered User regular
    Gaddez wrote: »
    Like I’m legit curious why people would give BioWare the benefit of the doubt on this.

    5 years was enough time to wrangle frostbite into a viable engine, write a compelling plot and create an enjoyable gameplay loop and yet anthem came out just… bad.

    Da4 is being reworked for like the second time.

    ME4 is just baffling since the third game basically precluded the possibility of sequels with it’s ending.

    What exactly am I missing?

    Anthem was a GaaS game so I don't personally put it into the same consideration at all.

    I have greatly enjoyed every DA and ME game so no reason to count those out until given a reason.

  • AegeriAegeri Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    I think if they went with the Destruction ending of ME3 they would have a decent chance of being able to do a sequel. It also appears that the Destruction ending is 100% what they are going with as well.
    Trajan45 wrote: »
    It all depends on leadership and in that I don't have much hope. The first iteration sounded exactly what I wanted from DA4. However that was canned and a live service game was rebooted instead. Now that one was also canned, but it doesn't give me much confidence that leadership has learned that they should focus on making a good game vs filling out checkboxes to present to EA leadership.

    Wasn't the first iteration of DA4 the GaaS game? I remember that the first thing I heard about DA4 was that it was some kind of weird multiplayer heist game.

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