MaddocI'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother?Registered Userregular
edited December 2015
I mean, sure, when the game first came out earlier this year lots of people had that thought that maybe this game doesn't have much variety or replayability
And then those people kept playing it and realized that it turns out they didn't immediately understand everything about the game right away, and they're still playing it now, and using builds that would have sounded terrible the first week or two of launch
If only this game were as intuitive as Dark Souls
Anyway, I've said my piece, Bloodborne has a wide variety of builds, and a large number of weapons that totally change the feel of the way the game plays, even if you're "just" hitting dudes with them.
read the link to the arcane guide in my last/second last post
seriously, it will change the way you approach the game if you follow it to do an arcane build. arcane is the bees knees
Let me ask you, what does an arcane character actually do?
If the answer is "hit stuff with a melee weapon", then it's no different than any other melee character. You're just dumping your points into a different stat for damage calculation.
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MaddocI'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother?Registered Userregular
read the link to the arcane guide in my last/second last post
seriously, it will change the way you approach the game if you follow it to do an arcane build. arcane is the bees knees
Let me ask you, what does an arcane character actually do?
If the answer is "hit stuff with a melee weapon", then it's no different than any other melee character. You're just dumping your points into a different stat for damage calculation.
I killed probably two thirds of the bosses in the game, including chalice bosses, by sending angry ghosts at them and sometimes tentacle portals
MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited December 2015
I believe you dude, don't worry. I've been that guy patiently teaching people who dont know too many times in too many threads to doubt you.
I've moved onto this other topic now.
Because the damage has been done. The vast majority of people played the game, came to that conclusion, and wandered off to other games. The prevailing opinion is that the game doesn't have variety. It's not true, but that doesn't matter: the players left that do know aren't going to change that prevailing opinion.
I've seen companies go down for problems that weren't true in their games. Platinum frequently hits this problem. Their games are basically the poster boy for "fails to understand how to market what their games can do to the community"
It hurts them.
Badly.
You get one real major chance to catch the initial tidal wave of public perception. If you screw it up, its too late. And unfortunately, this is a market driven hobby we have. If it happens too much, the game doesn't make enough money.
I saw that with Prototype. Prototype 1 was massively, massively misunderstood. Many people still believe Mercer was weak. I have an entire lets play devoted to showing how much of a monster he is, in detail. If you do what I teach you, you too can blow up the whole world while cackling like a maniac.
The game did a terrible job of explaining to you what all your abilities did, and you were faced with an overwhelming number of choices and abilities, many of which were situational.
It sold 2 million copies, and they thought this meant people liked it. What actually happened is people bought it because of Hulk Ultimate Destruction, the previous game, and this looked like a modern version of it. And a huge number of that 2 million customers hated Prototype 1.
So when making the next game, they thought they'd get more than those numbers, cos they were working really hard on improving it. They thought there was no way it couldn't sell like gangbusters.
Prototype 2 came out and it tried to fix the problems with Prototype 1. It was a game that was basically the reverse. It was incredible at selling the power fantasy to everyone. You couldn't help but feel powerful. Everything was up front, nothing was hidden, I didn't have to explain anything. People just got it.
It reviewed really well. It did not sell gangbusters. That company doesn't exist anymore.
Cos the damage had already been done in 1.
It is in every game players best interest to fairly and intelligently criticise and give feedback for unnecessary levels of obtuseness in their own hobby. If you like this hobby and want it to continue, you can't just ignore this stuff, or hand wave it away. It can personally effect you in the future.
Believe me, I've seen it happen. Prototype 2 broke my heart twice. Firstly because of the limits imposed on what the player could do. And secondly because this company that makes this style of game I love so much rolled over and died. I couldn't even hope they'd get better in the next game.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
read the link to the arcane guide in my last/second last post
seriously, it will change the way you approach the game if you follow it to do an arcane build. arcane is the bees knees
Let me ask you, what does an arcane character actually do?
If the answer is "hit stuff with a melee weapon", then it's no different than any other melee character. You're just dumping your points into a different stat for damage calculation.
I killed probably two thirds of the bosses in the game, including chalice bosses, by sending angry ghosts at them and sometimes tentacle portals
Ok then. So there is a way to be a sorcerer.
Huh.
Whatever, doesn't affect me this run (and probably never will, because I'm far too lazy to jump through whatever hoops it's going to ask for. Game's already way more unforgiving than DS1 and no where near as fun, I suspect I'll finish the story to see it through and move on.)
I basically agree with what Justice is saying and most of Morninglord's response to it. I don't particularly like the art style, but it does it pretty well. If you look closely, there's lots of interesting little touches. Like how the statues change from humans to...other things...as you progress.
I'm having a lot more fun now that I'm like...halfway or 3/4 through the game (if I had to guess). If I could make one simple change (beyond personal stuff like armor) it would be to pull out the first area and put it like two areas further in. Adjust the enemy stats a bit, of course, but start you out in the Cathedral area with access to the two areas to either side possible, letting you get much faster access to more weapons and upgrade possibilities. Then go to Yarnham and have it lead to Old Yarnham, and then continue like normal.
And if anyone wants to know where I'm at right now, here's my current state of mind:
As has been shown by my reaction to this game, Revengeance, Fire Emblem, FF14, etc. the one thing I really dislike is when I have to play a game exactly one way in order to be successful, at least at an entry level. So those first like six hours were just all of the worst decisions possible for me. Once more upgrades and paths were open, it felt a little better. I'm still sad that the saw axe is so much better than basically everything else at the start, though.
I would like to use the greatsword or the stake driver, but when they're +0 they're useless, and even at +3 to +6 they're not going to keep up with this +9 saw. I'm upgrading them as I get extra materials so I can test them out, but I don't think they're ever going to catch up.
Does anyone know exactly how the stake driver works, actually? The basic swings don't seem great. And I'm not quite sure how the L1 loading and R2 charging work. I would love to use it and run around imitating this.
i used the Stake Driver as my main weapon for much of the game because I just love doing the fully charged stake drive, and because it looks and sounds awesome.
when primed, the R1 stabs are very fast and (crucially!) cost very little stamina. this is excellent for enemies who are easily staggered; you can almost always stunlock them to death, especially if you end your combo with some big R2s or transformations.
the slash attacks with the extended form have deceptive range and are decent for crowd control. the R1s do a bit more damage, so if i'm in a situation where I can't unload my whole stamina bar I'll use those in short bursts to maximize damage. the R2 swing is pretty fast as well, so R1 R1 R2 was a good combo.
for optimal stunlocking, I think my favourite was primed R1, transform attack, extended R1s, finish with R2
against certain bosses and big slow enemies, the charged stake drive is remarkably useful and PROFOUNDLY satisfying, even more so than landing a visceral attack. note that you have no stamina after using it, so you can't visceral after staggering with it if you get someone from behind.
Okayyyyy new worst enemy is the guys in the first area of cainhurst
The good news is that they are literally the worst enemy in maybe the entire goddamn game
Also, all the enemies INSIDE Cainhurst are way easier
Ugghhh.... yeah, those things were nasty.
The good news is that as far as I can tell they're really vulnerable to being circled - like, just let them start their attack, but it's slow enough you can dash around and start cutting, flinch them, cut them some more, and then move again because they're turning to attack where you just where...
Also, thank god their patterns let you fight them 1v1, and the last one is skippable.
the stake driver has very nice raw damage for its attack speed, at the cost of scaling
it's quite a nice weapon if you're skimping on those stats (though because of the number of stats you have to play with this is infrequent)
also as mentioned it has very nice stagger for its attack speed at stamina, it's sort of like...the fast strength weapon, as far as stagger goes, even though it's not much of a strength weapon
it's a bit more extraneous with the DLC weapons (pizza just has such nice and simple stagger) but i primarily played with it and had a lot of fun
The first attempt was some time ago, got insta-trounced, then took that little side-trip to the Gaol. After finally finding the lamp, then picking up Ludwigs, learning to farm the bagmen, leveling up a bunch, getting my Ludwig to +5 and my Cleaver to +4, and taking another side trip to help Eileen kill Henrick (sadly, she died, but now I get to wear her duds), I finally got back around to trying again.
2nd Attempt didn't go well, was trying to use the Ludwigs, but even with Fire Paper it wasn't really doing much. So, for #3, I figured, "Beast? Burnsaw it," swapped my good gems to the Cleaver, and, well, video.
I hate that for the last two bosses, though, it's at a dead end and there's no real indication where I'm supposed to go next.
I literally cannot believe this is happening. It has to be some sort of trick and I'm not supposed to be here yet and need to do something else first to make this area actual possible to survive. But this is the only area I have left to explore. But I must be missing something, because I refuse to believe the things that are happening here are the way it is actually designed for you to play.
I like durability, but it's a real mechanic in Dark Souls. Levels can be designed with obstacles that get in the way of using equipment, spells use the effect in PvP, players can spend durability on dumb special moves, and there's a Santier's Spear.
In Blublub it's just legacy-data. Because durability is in the system, they could add fancy weapons that stop working if they're used without caution, or have big attacks that can't be used much because they're sure to hit the ground, if they wanted to, but they don't want to.
i used the Stake Driver as my main weapon for much of the game because I just love doing the fully charged stake drive, and because it looks and sounds awesome.
when primed, the R1 stabs are very fast and (crucially!) cost very little stamina. this is excellent for enemies who are easily staggered; you can almost always stunlock them to death, especially if you end your combo with some big R2s or transformations.
the slash attacks with the extended form have deceptive range and are decent for crowd control. the R1s do a bit more damage, so if i'm in a situation where I can't unload my whole stamina bar I'll use those in short bursts to maximize damage. the R2 swing is pretty fast as well, so R1 R1 R2 was a good combo.
for optimal stunlocking, I think my favourite was primed R1, transform attack, extended R1s, finish with R2
against certain bosses and big slow enemies, the charged stake drive is remarkably useful and PROFOUNDLY satisfying, even more so than landing a visceral attack. note that you have no stamina after using it, so you can't visceral after staggering with it if you get someone from behind.
I literally cannot believe this is happening. It has to be some sort of trick and I'm not supposed to be here yet and need to do something else first to make this area actual possible to survive. But this is the only area I have left to explore. But I must be missing something, because I refuse to believe the things that are happening here are the way it is actually designed for you to play.
there is a trick to it
alternately, as with any area, just booking it past everything is a valid option
Posts
seriously, it will change the way you approach the game if you follow it to do an arcane build. arcane is the bees knees
And then those people kept playing it and realized that it turns out they didn't immediately understand everything about the game right away, and they're still playing it now, and using builds that would have sounded terrible the first week or two of launch
If only this game were as intuitive as Dark Souls
Anyway, I've said my piece, Bloodborne has a wide variety of builds, and a large number of weapons that totally change the feel of the way the game plays, even if you're "just" hitting dudes with them.
Let me ask you, what does an arcane character actually do?
If the answer is "hit stuff with a melee weapon", then it's no different than any other melee character. You're just dumping your points into a different stat for damage calculation.
I killed probably two thirds of the bosses in the game, including chalice bosses, by sending angry ghosts at them and sometimes tentacle portals
I've moved onto this other topic now.
Because the damage has been done. The vast majority of people played the game, came to that conclusion, and wandered off to other games. The prevailing opinion is that the game doesn't have variety. It's not true, but that doesn't matter: the players left that do know aren't going to change that prevailing opinion.
I've seen companies go down for problems that weren't true in their games. Platinum frequently hits this problem. Their games are basically the poster boy for "fails to understand how to market what their games can do to the community"
It hurts them.
Badly.
You get one real major chance to catch the initial tidal wave of public perception. If you screw it up, its too late. And unfortunately, this is a market driven hobby we have. If it happens too much, the game doesn't make enough money.
I saw that with Prototype. Prototype 1 was massively, massively misunderstood. Many people still believe Mercer was weak. I have an entire lets play devoted to showing how much of a monster he is, in detail. If you do what I teach you, you too can blow up the whole world while cackling like a maniac.
The game did a terrible job of explaining to you what all your abilities did, and you were faced with an overwhelming number of choices and abilities, many of which were situational.
It sold 2 million copies, and they thought this meant people liked it. What actually happened is people bought it because of Hulk Ultimate Destruction, the previous game, and this looked like a modern version of it. And a huge number of that 2 million customers hated Prototype 1.
So when making the next game, they thought they'd get more than those numbers, cos they were working really hard on improving it. They thought there was no way it couldn't sell like gangbusters.
Prototype 2 came out and it tried to fix the problems with Prototype 1. It was a game that was basically the reverse. It was incredible at selling the power fantasy to everyone. You couldn't help but feel powerful. Everything was up front, nothing was hidden, I didn't have to explain anything. People just got it.
It reviewed really well. It did not sell gangbusters. That company doesn't exist anymore.
Cos the damage had already been done in 1.
It is in every game players best interest to fairly and intelligently criticise and give feedback for unnecessary levels of obtuseness in their own hobby. If you like this hobby and want it to continue, you can't just ignore this stuff, or hand wave it away. It can personally effect you in the future.
Believe me, I've seen it happen. Prototype 2 broke my heart twice. Firstly because of the limits imposed on what the player could do. And secondly because this company that makes this style of game I love so much rolled over and died. I couldn't even hope they'd get better in the next game.
Ok then. So there is a way to be a sorcerer.
Huh.
Whatever, doesn't affect me this run (and probably never will, because I'm far too lazy to jump through whatever hoops it's going to ask for. Game's already way more unforgiving than DS1 and no where near as fun, I suspect I'll finish the story to see it through and move on.)
I'm having a lot more fun now that I'm like...halfway or 3/4 through the game (if I had to guess). If I could make one simple change (beyond personal stuff like armor) it would be to pull out the first area and put it like two areas further in. Adjust the enemy stats a bit, of course, but start you out in the Cathedral area with access to the two areas to either side possible, letting you get much faster access to more weapons and upgrade possibilities. Then go to Yarnham and have it lead to Old Yarnham, and then continue like normal.
And if anyone wants to know where I'm at right now, here's my current state of mind:
But I really kind of want to do a Bloodtinge character next
I'm glad you are having fun!
I would like to use the greatsword or the stake driver, but when they're +0 they're useless, and even at +3 to +6 they're not going to keep up with this +9 saw. I'm upgrading them as I get extra materials so I can test them out, but I don't think they're ever going to catch up.
Does anyone know exactly how the stake driver works, actually? The basic swings don't seem great. And I'm not quite sure how the L1 loading and R2 charging work. I would love to use it and run around imitating this.
arcaaaaane
It's ostensibly a Quality weapon that slightly favors Strength, but the attribute scaling is a little bad
The way it works is that L1 retracts the Stake, and R2 (both uncharged and charged) "fires" it
A charged R2 with the Stake "primed" is one of the single strongest attacks in the entire game
If so, a weapon with good reach does help a lot to ensure that you can catch him when he sidesteps.
god dam this took me three fucking hours
fuck you bloody crow
Isn't that guy called the bloody crow of cainhurst?
yes.
when a problem comes along, you must whip it
whip it good
I don't know what that part means. I've seen some nice gifs like that, though. How should it be used...just bring it out as a big enemy killer?
Maybe? He's never named in the game, so I had no idea he was anything other than a hunter from Cainhurst.
Quality refers to a Strength/Skill split
And you could use it to kill anything really, just get used to re-priming it after each R2
You can combo into the L1 to attack and prime at the same time, also
The good news is that they are literally the worst enemy in maybe the entire goddamn game
Also, all the enemies INSIDE Cainhurst are way easier
when primed, the R1 stabs are very fast and (crucially!) cost very little stamina. this is excellent for enemies who are easily staggered; you can almost always stunlock them to death, especially if you end your combo with some big R2s or transformations.
the slash attacks with the extended form have deceptive range and are decent for crowd control. the R1s do a bit more damage, so if i'm in a situation where I can't unload my whole stamina bar I'll use those in short bursts to maximize damage. the R2 swing is pretty fast as well, so R1 R1 R2 was a good combo.
for optimal stunlocking, I think my favourite was primed R1, transform attack, extended R1s, finish with R2
against certain bosses and big slow enemies, the charged stake drive is remarkably useful and PROFOUNDLY satisfying, even more so than landing a visceral attack. note that you have no stamina after using it, so you can't visceral after staggering with it if you get someone from behind.
Ugghhh.... yeah, those things were nasty.
Also, thank god their patterns let you fight them 1v1, and the last one is skippable.
3DS: 0473-8507-2652
Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
PSN: AbEntropy
I pushed there Brainsuckers out of my mind I guess, those fuckers are infuriating beyond words
it's quite a nice weapon if you're skimping on those stats (though because of the number of stats you have to play with this is infrequent)
also as mentioned it has very nice stagger for its attack speed at stamina, it's sort of like...the fast strength weapon, as far as stagger goes, even though it's not much of a strength weapon
it's a bit more extraneous with the DLC weapons (pizza just has such nice and simple stagger) but i primarily played with it and had a lot of fun
2nd Attempt didn't go well, was trying to use the Ludwigs, but even with Fire Paper it wasn't really doing much. So, for #3, I figured, "Beast? Burnsaw it," swapped my good gems to the Cleaver, and, well, video.
I hate that for the last two bosses, though, it's at a dead end and there's no real indication where I'm supposed to go next.
In Blublub it's just legacy-data. Because durability is in the system, they could add fancy weapons that stop working if they're used without caution, or have big attacks that can't be used much because they're sure to hit the ground, if they wanted to, but they don't want to.
oil urn, fire stake driver on depth 5 ebrietas
bosses included
alternately, as with any area, just booking it past everything is a valid option
There should be a soulblob-tool in the Hunter's Dream.
Slow things can't beat Stake Driver. And you can have enough stamina to visceral under favourable conditions.