So am I misunderstanding something about the Wheel? They make it sound like a seriously bad thing to break it, but that doesn’t make sense to me. I know it is what reincarnates people, but life and civilization existed for untold millenia without the Gods or the Wheel. Neither existed until the Engiwthans made them.
So, to me anyway, it would seem pretty obvious that life will continue on the natural way without much fuss.
Super fun time though.
It seems to be that:
The existence of the gods is causing the issue. That is the main difference between pre-god Eora and post-god Eora.
In pre-god Eora, the flow of souls from the Adra was two way. Souls both went into the Adra, and came back out to be reincarnated. In post-god Eora, that flow now only goes one way - to the gods in the Adra.
The gods seems to be able to control soul energy themselves. Like how Eothas could absorb souls and send souls to empower specific people like in the animancy ending, same way the Watcher did with the Engwithan machiine in the PoE1 ending.
So even without the Wheel, the Gods could manually send out soul energy from the Beyond to drive the cycle of reincarnation.
I assume that the Wheel existed as a way to distribute souls automatically, as a form of a truce between the gods. Without the wheel, the gods controlling reincarnation themselves would cause a lot of conflict between them and their favored people.
It seems that there was a war between the gods before the Wheel was established, which was why they gave up their physical bodies and build the Wheel to drive reincarnation.
}
"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
So am I misunderstanding something about the Wheel? They make it sound like a seriously bad thing to break it, but that doesn’t make sense to me. I know it is what reincarnates people, but life and civilization existed for untold millenia without the Gods or the Wheel. Neither existed until the Engiwthans made them.
So, to me anyway, it would seem pretty obvious that life will continue on the natural way without much fuss.
Super fun time though.
Fairly sure that breaking the wheel would also wreck every civilization in that world, because if I remember my PoE1 Lore correctly the creation of the wheel was the harnessing of soul power so that magic no longer had to rely on the ritual sacrifice of kith (ie, sentient beings with strong souls).
"The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
0
AxenMy avatar is Excalibur.Yes, the sword.Registered Userregular
So am I misunderstanding something about the Wheel? They make it sound like a seriously bad thing to break it, but that doesn’t make sense to me. I know it is what reincarnates people, but life and civilization existed for untold millenia without the Gods or the Wheel. Neither existed until the Engiwthans made them.
So, to me anyway, it would seem pretty obvious that life will continue on the natural way without much fuss.
Super fun time though.
It seems to be that:
The existence of the gods is causing the issue. That is the main difference between pre-god Eora and post-god Eora.
In pre-god Eora, the flow of souls from the Adra was two way. Souls both went into the Adra, and came back out to be reincarnated. In post-god Eora, that flow now only goes one way - to the gods in the Adra.
The gods seems to be able to control soul energy themselves. Like how Eothas could absorb souls and send souls to empower specific people like in the animancy ending, same way the Watcher did with the Engwithan machiine in the PoE1 ending.
So even without the Wheel, the Gods could manually send out soul energy from the Beyond to drive the cycle of reincarnation.
I assume that the Wheel existed as a way to distribute souls automatically, as a form of a truce between the gods. Without the wheel, the gods controlling reincarnation themselves would cause a lot of conflict between them and their favored people.
It seems that there was a war between the gods before the Wheel was established, which was why they gave up their physical bodies and build the Wheel to drive reincarnation.
More end spoilers:
From what I understood it was thanks to the Wheel that the Gods got soul energy and thus existed. If you’ve Pallegina with you she thanks Eothas for what he is about to do and he says that while he appreciates the sentiment he knows she is only grateful because it likely means the end of his Kin.
The impression I got was that the Wheel basically held mortals hostage to the Gods whims, but without it the Gods and Kith are on equal footing. If Kith wish to worship their God thats fine. If not then their souls aren’t gonna get fucked over in the afterlife.
Which follows with what you learn in PoE1. What with the Engiwthans creating the Gods and the Wheel because the idea of there being no Divine retribution for actions taken during life was something they were terrified of people finding out.
Axen on
A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
So am I misunderstanding something about the Wheel? They make it sound like a seriously bad thing to break it, but that doesn’t make sense to me. I know it is what reincarnates people, but life and civilization existed for untold millenia without the Gods or the Wheel. Neither existed until the Engiwthans made them.
So, to me anyway, it would seem pretty obvious that life will continue on the natural way without much fuss.
Super fun time though.
It seems to be that:
The existence of the gods is causing the issue. That is the main difference between pre-god Eora and post-god Eora.
In pre-god Eora, the flow of souls from the Adra was two way. Souls both went into the Adra, and came back out to be reincarnated. In post-god Eora, that flow now only goes one way - to the gods in the Adra.
The gods seems to be able to control soul energy themselves. Like how Eothas could absorb souls and send souls to empower specific people like in the animancy ending, same way the Watcher did with the Engwithan machiine in the PoE1 ending.
So even without the Wheel, the Gods could manually send out soul energy from the Beyond to drive the cycle of reincarnation.
I assume that the Wheel existed as a way to distribute souls automatically, as a form of a truce between the gods. Without the wheel, the gods controlling reincarnation themselves would cause a lot of conflict between them and their favored people.
It seems that there was a war between the gods before the Wheel was established, which was why they gave up their physical bodies and build the Wheel to drive reincarnation.
More end spoilers:
From what I understood it was thanks to the Wheel that the Gods got soul energy and thus existed. If you’ve Pallegina with you she thanks Eothas for what he is about to do and he says that while he appreciates the sentiment he knows she is only grateful because it likely means the end of his Kin.
The impression I got was that the Wheel basically held mortals hostage to the Gods whims, but without it the Gods and Kith are on equal footing. If Kith wish to worship their God thats fine. If not then their souls aren’t gonna get fucked over in the afterlife.
Which follows with what you learn in PoE1. What with the Engiwthans creating the Gods and the Wheel because the idea of there being no Divine retribution for actions taken during life was something they were terrified of people finding out.
I have more speculation.
The gods existed before the Wheel as titans walking the earth, outside of the Beyond, in the same way as Eothas does in game. Remember, Eothas doesn't exist in the Beyond anymore, he exists purely within the titan.
When they were walking the Earth, they could control souls the same way Eothas does. But when Ondra killed Abydon, they decided to abandon their physical bodies and reside directly in the Adra.
The destruction of the world ending implies that the Adra and Beyond has some sort of consciousness of its own. Eothas injects the Adra with his feelings of doubt about the meaning of life, and that causes all of Eora to dissolve itself.
Before the gods, the consciousness of the Adra had a passive drive for creation and life, which drove the cycle of reincarnation. That drive is suppressed by that existence of the Gods now in the Beyond, so the wheel is necessary.
I think that if the gods were removed from the Beyond, that drive would reassert itself and reincarnation would begin again.
Jephery on
}
"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
0
AxenMy avatar is Excalibur.Yes, the sword.Registered Userregular
Well I’ll tell ya one thing for sure, I’m totally going to spend the rest of my day reading lore!
So wants to take guesses at where PoE3 will take place? Presuming and hoping there will be a third.
My guess? The Living Lands.
A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
So am I misunderstanding something about the Wheel? They make it sound like a seriously bad thing to break it, but that doesn’t make sense to me. I know it is what reincarnates people, but life and civilization existed for untold millenia without the Gods or the Wheel. Neither existed until the Engiwthans made them.
So, to me anyway, it would seem pretty obvious that life will continue on the natural way without much fuss.
Super fun time though.
One of the main arguments for not taking away the wheel is that the inbetween (where you chatted with the gods/pallid knights) has to be filled up in order for souls to begin reincarnating again. All those souls that land in the inbetween will be there forever until animancers find a way to get them out. Otherwise they are lost forever and who knows how many souls will be in oblivion until then. The gods most likely also won't take dying quietly: Woedica, Skaen and especially Rymrgand will do what they can to find a way to survive. Who knows how many lives will be destroyed in that wake. A different argument is that complete upheaval with the status quo and no one knows how people will react during the chaos. Who knows if future animancers create new gods in order to fill the void.
So the choice is an imperfect status quo with the gods still in play or a uncertain future where the safety net is gone. No matter what choice you make at the end, things will change. Maybe the DLC will spend more time around the problem or the situation in deadfire, but we'll see.
Finished the game with 36 hours played, most stuff done so I have a bunch of blessing points to use in a future playthrough. Won't be right away, but after a bit of time. Fun game though.
So am I misunderstanding something about the Wheel? They make it sound like a seriously bad thing to break it, but that doesn’t make sense to me. I know it is what reincarnates people, but life and civilization existed for untold millenia without the Gods or the Wheel. Neither existed until the Engiwthans made them.
So, to me anyway, it would seem pretty obvious that life will continue on the natural way without much fuss.
Super fun time though.
One of the main arguments for not taking away the wheel is that the inbetween (where you chatted with the gods/pallid knights) has to be filled up in order for souls to begin reincarnating again. All those souls that land in the inbetween will be there forever until animancers find a way to get them out. Otherwise they are lost forever and who knows how many souls will be in oblivion until then. The gods most likely also won't take dying quietly: Woedica, Skaen and especially Rymrgand will do what they can to find a way to survive. Who knows how many lives will be destroyed in that wake. A different argument is that complete upheaval with the status quo and no one knows how people will react during the chaos. Who knows if future animancers create new gods in order to fill the void.
So the choice is an imperfect status quo with the gods still in play or a uncertain future where the safety net is gone. No matter what choice you make at the end, things will change. Maybe the DLC will spend more time around the problem or the situation in deadfire, but we'll see.
Finished the game with 36 hours played, most stuff done so I have a bunch of blessing points to use in a future playthrough. Won't be right away, but after a bit of time. Fun game though.
I'm being pretty completionist as I'm jobless at the moment
Its been a pretty fun game but buggy. Scaling doesnt seem to work at all. Definitely going to wait for a good patch before I do another run through.
PSN: Valiant_heartPC: Valiantheart99
0
HonkHonk is this poster.Registered User, __BANNED USERSregular
I don't really quit the game anymore so much as it crashes and yields an error box requesting I send the report to the devs... This time I only got about 40 minutes of game before that happened. I hope it's not becoming more frequent, it could of course be random.
36 hours seems hella fast - I'm at 24 now and not even high enough level to take on the first story mission post Neketaka. I've only been to one other island apart from the city and the tutorial so far.
I don't really quit the game anymore so much as it crashes and yields an error box requesting I send the report to the devs... This time I only got about 40 minutes of game before that happened. I hope it's not becoming more frequent, it could of course be random.
36 hours seems hella fast - I'm at 24 now and not even high enough level to take on the first story mission post Neketaka. I've only been to one other island apart from the city and the tutorial so far.
There's a memory leak issue that they claim to have solved in the beta patch
It should hit live soon. I think they said last week it was planned for today(Tuesday), but it has probably been postponed as more bugs have shown up
You can opt in for the beta patch on Steam if you don't want to wait
Obsidian Q&A just ended with Josh Sawyer (lead designer) and Caleb ?? (QA). VOD here:
A lot of answers about bugs they're fixing. Still watching it, but the disposition system bugs/quirks are going to be fixed. Josh talked about how they did a late pass on dialogue to add dispositions to choices and they may have gone overboard a bit.
hippofant on
0
AxenMy avatar is Excalibur.Yes, the sword.Registered Userregular
edited May 2018
Y'know I was wondering about that. At one point in the game I told someone that I would tell the truth and they were like, "I hear you and the truth aren't on good terms."
Which left me saying to myself, "BWHAAAA?! I never uttered a single falsehood since arriving in this shithole of an archipelago!"
Much later on I had Eder tell me how I wasn't the same person he used to know and that he didn't like how I was acting. And again I was all, "Literally the same I was in PoE 1! Benevolent, Honest, and fair!"
Axen on
A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
So am I misunderstanding something about the Wheel? They make it sound like a seriously bad thing to break it, but that doesn’t make sense to me. I know it is what reincarnates people, but life and civilization existed for untold millenia without the Gods or the Wheel. Neither existed until the Engiwthans made them.
So, to me anyway, it would seem pretty obvious that life will continue on the natural way without much fuss.
Super fun time though.
One of the main arguments for not taking away the wheel is that the inbetween (where you chatted with the gods/pallid knights) has to be filled up in order for souls to begin reincarnating again. All those souls that land in the inbetween will be there forever until animancers find a way to get them out. Otherwise they are lost forever and who knows how many souls will be in oblivion until then. The gods most likely also won't take dying quietly: Woedica, Skaen and especially Rymrgand will do what they can to find a way to survive. Who knows how many lives will be destroyed in that wake. A different argument is that complete upheaval with the status quo and no one knows how people will react during the chaos. Who knows if future animancers create new gods in order to fill the void.
So the choice is an imperfect status quo with the gods still in play or a uncertain future where the safety net is gone. No matter what choice you make at the end, things will change. Maybe the DLC will spend more time around the problem or the situation in deadfire, but we'll see.
Finished the game with 36 hours played, most stuff done so I have a bunch of blessing points to use in a future playthrough. Won't be right away, but after a bit of time. Fun game though.
Jesus, how much did you skip? That is such a short playtime.
Y'know I was wondering about that. At one point in the game I told someone that I would tell the truth and they were like, "I hear you and the truth aren't on good terms."
Which left me saying to myself, "BWHAAAA?! I never uttered a single falsehood since arriving in this shithole of an archipelago!"
Much later on I had Eder tell me how I wasn't the same person he used to know and that he didn't like how I was acting. And again I was all, "Literally the same I was in PoE 1! Benevolent, Honest, and fair!"
That’s funny considering he likes my murderous and cruel character just fine.
I just rescued an old drunk from being ritually sacrificed by a cult in a side area. I hired him on to my crew because he's a decent navigator and why not, right?
Now I have people in Neketaka hunting me down to repay his debts :surprised:
Seem to have ran into a bit of a quest bug. I'd encourage everyone to finish up all the side-quests you have before taking on main-quest stuff. I thought I'd do the next main quest because I was over-leveling it at that point, but it mucked some stuff up.
Most of it the game handles great, and if you talk to people after you do things rather than before, you can still get credit.
In this particular instance though, I finished a quest to convince some folks to help other folks, but didn't get credit. I noticed later that I never got credit, so I went back, and now they say they won't help.
Also, soulbound weapons can't be straight-upgrade enchanted (e.g. from superb to legendary), that kind of stinks.
The Wahaki you're sent to by the queen to convince to help. The originally agreed after I took care of the slavers. But now, they talk to me like I haven't care of the slavers yet and refuse to help.
Seem to have ran into a bit of a quest bug. I'd encourage everyone to finish up all the side-quests you have before taking on main-quest stuff. I thought I'd do the next main quest because I was over-leveling it at that point, but it mucked some stuff up.
Most of it the game handles great, and if you talk to people after you do things rather than before, you can still get credit.
In this particular instance though, I finished a quest to convince some folks to help other folks, but didn't get credit. I noticed later that I never got credit, so I went back, and now they say they won't help.
Also, soulbound weapons can't be straight-upgrade enchanted (e.g. from superb to legendary), that kind of stinks.
The Wahaki you're sent to by the queen to convince to help. The originally agreed after I took care of the slavers. But now, they talk to me like I haven't care of the slavers yet and refuse to help.
Yeah I ran into that same bug. I'll have to do that end game route later. I think I will wait for all the DLC to drop before doing a second run through though.
}
"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
Seem to have ran into a bit of a quest bug. I'd encourage everyone to finish up all the side-quests you have before taking on main-quest stuff. I thought I'd do the next main quest because I was over-leveling it at that point, but it mucked some stuff up.
Most of it the game handles great, and if you talk to people after you do things rather than before, you can still get credit.
In this particular instance though, I finished a quest to convince some folks to help other folks, but didn't get credit. I noticed later that I never got credit, so I went back, and now they say they won't help.
Also, soulbound weapons can't be straight-upgrade enchanted (e.g. from superb to legendary), that kind of stinks.
The Wahaki you're sent to by the queen to convince to help. The originally agreed after I took care of the slavers. But now, they talk to me like I haven't care of the slavers yet and refuse to help.
I'm pretty near the endgame, and the bugs are stacking up to the point that it is getting discouraging. Pretty much all of them are related to triggers messing up and not firing as the decision trees get more complex, so I feel pretty confident that they'll get fixed eventually.
0
HonkHonk is this poster.Registered User, __BANNED USERSregular
I’ve had a quest bug where basically I could gather info on a theft, but after being thorough and gathering all the info I can’t end it any way except the honest way. It’s probably some condition lock out not caught in qa rather than a straightforward regular bug.
Seem to have ran into a bit of a quest bug. I'd encourage everyone to finish up all the side-quests you have before taking on main-quest stuff. I thought I'd do the next main quest because I was over-leveling it at that point, but it mucked some stuff up.
Most of it the game handles great, and if you talk to people after you do things rather than before, you can still get credit.
In this particular instance though, I finished a quest to convince some folks to help other folks, but didn't get credit. I noticed later that I never got credit, so I went back, and now they say they won't help.
Also, soulbound weapons can't be straight-upgrade enchanted (e.g. from superb to legendary), that kind of stinks.
The Wahaki you're sent to by the queen to convince to help. The originally agreed after I took care of the slavers. But now, they talk to me like I haven't care of the slavers yet and refuse to help.
I'm pretty near the endgame, and the bugs are stacking up to the point that it is getting discouraging. Pretty much all of them are related to triggers messing up and not firing as the decision trees get more complex, so I feel pretty confident that they'll get fixed eventually.
Once I got to that point I just finished the game. Can always replay it later in a few months once the bugs are squashed.
The Valians are hyper Neutral Evil capitalists basically there to strip the land bear of Adra and trick the natives into contracts they dont understand.
The Rauatai exemplify a colonizing Lawful Evil group. The come in by force and simply take over with guns and ships.
The Principi are Chaotic Neutral/Evil pirates. They like to do pirate things but hey at least one part of the faction doesnt believe in Slavery...
The Huana are a bunch of wishy washy non-united communist layabouts who allow their lower castes to starve to death.
I went with the Huana....mostly for the achievement points and not their cause.
The Huana are literally a monarchy. There’s no communism there unless you consider any pooling of resources whatsoever to be communism.
I think the factions are the way they are to force the player to think about what matters to them. Order? Progress? Individual freedom? Cultural self determination?
All of the factions champion one of these things at great cost. There is no 21st century secular humanist morality option.
About the Huana, it should be noted that there is no monolithic Huana and they are separate tribes. I can't recall right now the name of the main Huana tribe in Neketaka - the Kahanga? - but they are, presumably, the only ones responsible for the state of Neketaka. The Tikiwara or the Wahiki have nothing to do with what's happening in the Gullet. In particular, it's mentioned a few times in the game that prize-share works/worked differently in smaller tribes, when the Ranga knew the names of everybody in the tribe, and that the merging of tribes into the Kahanga and their settlement in Neketaka are unusual occurrences brought about by the arrival of the trading companies in the first place.
In this context, I look at the Kahanga and I wonder if what we see there isn't a version of the Huana in (inevitable) decline, that the Kahanga we see of Neketaka is already a version of Huanan society that's already past saving, that's been "corrupted," if you will, and that otherwise Huanan society worked okay/better. For example, the Tikiwarans seem largely okay, with their main woe being a lack of resources brought about by external pressures, and I wonder if back wherever they originated, they were happy and peaceful, and if the trading companies and pirates and slavers etc.. were all expelled, could they return to that state?
About the Huana, it should be noted that there is no monolithic Huana and they are separate tribes. I can't recall right now the name of the main Huana tribe in Neketaka - the Kahanga? - but they are, presumably, the only ones responsible for the state of Neketaka. The Tikiwara or the Wahiki have nothing to do with what's happening in the Gullet. In particular, it's mentioned a few times in the game that prize-share works/worked differently in smaller tribes, when the Ranga knew the names of everybody in the tribe, and that the merging of tribes into the Kahanga and their settlement in Neketaka are unusual occurrences brought about by the arrival of the trading companies in the first place.
In this context, I look at the Kahanga and I wonder if what we see there isn't a version of the Huana in (inevitable) decline, that the Kahanga we see of Neketaka is already a version of Huanan society that's already past saving, that's been "corrupted," if you will, and that otherwise Huanan society worked okay/better. For example, the Tikiwarans seem largely okay, with their main woe being a lack of resources brought about by external pressures, and I wonder if back wherever they originated, they were happy and peaceful, and if the trading companies and pirates and slavers etc.. were all expelled, could they return to that state?
I think this is an unproductive line of reasoning. They aren’t “corrupted”, their way of organizing a society is simply flawed and does not scale with inevitable urbanization. If the VTC and RDC are expelled tomorrow it doesn’t change the fact that the world is changing and the Huana will have to change with it. Or the outsiders will simply come back later with even bigger guns. Apologism for the Huana on those grounds misses the more pertinent reason to defend their right to self determine:
Because any argument that the Huana “deserve” subjugation at the hands of the VTC or the RDC is functionally indistinguishable from British nationalist apologia for the Raj.
Man, some of the In-Between interactions are so cool, like
Wael stealing all your scrolls because you stole his in POE 1
The narrator speaking your voice when you meet the other half of your soul in Eothas...and asking you "Are you the same soul who sacrificed someone in Skaen's blood pool?" ..."I am."
The player's actions can blunt the negative aspects of the factions in various side quests:
The VTC under Castol is more interested in scientific research than strip mining or colonialism, especially if you destroy the Crookspur slavers instead of helping their deal with the VTC/Principi.
The Rauatai can be reformed to be more Lawful Neutral/Good if you help Maia, as she becomes a reformist back home and the Ranga Nui listens to her.
The Huana can be persuaded to care better for their Lower Caste.
Jephery on
}
"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
About the Huana, it should be noted that there is no monolithic Huana and they are separate tribes. I can't recall right now the name of the main Huana tribe in Neketaka - the Kahanga? - but they are, presumably, the only ones responsible for the state of Neketaka. The Tikiwara or the Wahiki have nothing to do with what's happening in the Gullet. In particular, it's mentioned a few times in the game that prize-share works/worked differently in smaller tribes, when the Ranga knew the names of everybody in the tribe, and that the merging of tribes into the Kahanga and their settlement in Neketaka are unusual occurrences brought about by the arrival of the trading companies in the first place.
In this context, I look at the Kahanga and I wonder if what we see there isn't a version of the Huana in (inevitable) decline, that the Kahanga we see of Neketaka is already a version of Huanan society that's already past saving, that's been "corrupted," if you will, and that otherwise Huanan society worked okay/better. For example, the Tikiwarans seem largely okay, with their main woe being a lack of resources brought about by external pressures, and I wonder if back wherever they originated, they were happy and peaceful, and if the trading companies and pirates and slavers etc.. were all expelled, could they return to that state?
I think this is an unproductive line of reasoning. They aren’t “corrupted”, their way of organizing a society is simply flawed and does not scale with inevitable urbanization. If the VTC and RDC are expelled tomorrow it doesn’t change the fact that the world is changing and the Huana will have to change with it. Or the outsiders will simply come back later with even bigger guns. Apologism for the Huana on those grounds misses the more pertinent reason to defend their right to self determine:
Because any argument that the Huana “deserve” subjugation at the hands of the VTC or the RDC is functionally indistinguishable from British nationalist apologia for the Raj.
Huana BS
They enslaved at least one of their guardians for power and broke every old pact they ever made. They made their bed and are now upset they didn't foresee this end.
About the Huana, it should be noted that there is no monolithic Huana and they are separate tribes. I can't recall right now the name of the main Huana tribe in Neketaka - the Kahanga? - but they are, presumably, the only ones responsible for the state of Neketaka. The Tikiwara or the Wahiki have nothing to do with what's happening in the Gullet. In particular, it's mentioned a few times in the game that prize-share works/worked differently in smaller tribes, when the Ranga knew the names of everybody in the tribe, and that the merging of tribes into the Kahanga and their settlement in Neketaka are unusual occurrences brought about by the arrival of the trading companies in the first place.
In this context, I look at the Kahanga and I wonder if what we see there isn't a version of the Huana in (inevitable) decline, that the Kahanga we see of Neketaka is already a version of Huanan society that's already past saving, that's been "corrupted," if you will, and that otherwise Huanan society worked okay/better. For example, the Tikiwarans seem largely okay, with their main woe being a lack of resources brought about by external pressures, and I wonder if back wherever they originated, they were happy and peaceful, and if the trading companies and pirates and slavers etc.. were all expelled, could they return to that state?
I think this is an unproductive line of reasoning. They aren’t “corrupted”, their way of organizing a society is simply flawed and does not scale with inevitable urbanization. If the VTC and RDC are expelled tomorrow it doesn’t change the fact that the world is changing and the Huana will have to change with it. Or the outsiders will simply come back later with even bigger guns. Apologism for the Huana on those grounds misses the more pertinent reason to defend their right to self determine:
Because any argument that the Huana “deserve” subjugation at the hands of the VTC or the RDC is functionally indistinguishable from British nationalist apologia for the Raj.
Huana BS
They enslaved at least one of their guardians for power and broke every old pact they ever made. They made their bed and are now upset they didn't foresee this end.
My understanding is that (ending spoiler):
The Huana were backstabbed by the Engwithans and the Gods, who drove all the Huana out of Ukaizo with Ondra's Spire after the Wheel was finished.
In the turmoil that followed the fall of Ukaizo, Periki did what she felt she needed to do to secure a future for the Huana, which meant keeping Watershaping alive by enslaving the dragon. Watershaping was previously powered by Ondra herself when she walked Eora as a titan.
Present day Huana have no fucking idea what happened though, only the Watershaper Guildmaster had that knowledge pasted down.
Jephery on
}
"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
In this context, I look at the Kahanga and I wonder if what we see there isn't a version of the Huana in (inevitable) decline, that the Kahanga we see of Neketaka is already a version of Huanan society that's already past saving, that's been "corrupted," if you will, and that otherwise Huanan society worked okay/better. For example, the Tikiwarans seem largely okay, with their main woe being a lack of resources brought about by external pressures, and I wonder if back wherever they originated, they were happy and peaceful, and if the trading companies and pirates and slavers etc.. were all expelled, could they return to that state?
A 179 word rant on why I hate the Huana (with some spoilers):
You mean the Tikiwarans that was not only in the process of spending their last food supply because their ranga was a blind fool but threw away a potential future source of food because "A weaver couldn't possibly know anything about agriculture" when your own Alchemical knowledge tells you that he knows EXACTLY what he's talking about.
There is no hope for the Huana society with the Mataru at the top, a class so blinded by their privileges that they're doomed to be crushed. Even if I, or even Ondra, back them up it will only be a temporary hold in their inevitable decline. The only decent Mataru I have met so far is Tekehu, who is a spoiled artist but good at heart. The rest are either foolish, blind, conniving, powerhungry or vicious. Despite having every opportunity to not be. I mean, their Queen is a bloody Cipher and can read minds, yet her priorities are so fucked up that she only uses her talent for personal gain (and power ploys) rather than fixing her fucked up society.
"The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
+1
AxenMy avatar is Excalibur.Yes, the sword.Registered Userregular
About the Huana, it should be noted that there is no monolithic Huana and they are separate tribes. I can't recall right now the name of the main Huana tribe in Neketaka - the Kahanga? - but they are, presumably, the only ones responsible for the state of Neketaka. The Tikiwara or the Wahiki have nothing to do with what's happening in the Gullet. In particular, it's mentioned a few times in the game that prize-share works/worked differently in smaller tribes, when the Ranga knew the names of everybody in the tribe, and that the merging of tribes into the Kahanga and their settlement in Neketaka are unusual occurrences brought about by the arrival of the trading companies in the first place.
In this context, I look at the Kahanga and I wonder if what we see there isn't a version of the Huana in (inevitable) decline, that the Kahanga we see of Neketaka is already a version of Huanan society that's already past saving, that's been "corrupted," if you will, and that otherwise Huanan society worked okay/better. For example, the Tikiwarans seem largely okay, with their main woe being a lack of resources brought about by external pressures, and I wonder if back wherever they originated, they were happy and peaceful, and if the trading companies and pirates and slavers etc.. were all expelled, could they return to that state?
I think this is an unproductive line of reasoning. They aren’t “corrupted”, their way of organizing a society is simply flawed and does not scale with inevitable urbanization. If the VTC and RDC are expelled tomorrow it doesn’t change the fact that the world is changing and the Huana will have to change with it. Or the outsiders will simply come back later with even bigger guns. Apologism for the Huana on those grounds misses the more pertinent reason to defend their right to self determine:
Because any argument that the Huana “deserve” subjugation at the hands of the VTC or the RDC is functionally indistinguishable from British nationalist apologia for the Raj.
Huana BS
They enslaved at least one of their guardians for power and broke every old pact they ever made. They made their bed and are now upset they didn't foresee this end.
Yeah that’s one of the reasons the Queen is pretty upset with the situation since they’re used to fucking over others and now they’re the ones getting screwed over.
I didn’t have much love for the Huana since they literally eat their poor.
Everyone knows a proper society only figuratively eats their poor.
Edit- mind you I didn’t have much love for the other factions either. Though I do have a great love of the Valian accent.
Axen on
A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
About the Huana, it should be noted that there is no monolithic Huana and they are separate tribes. I can't recall right now the name of the main Huana tribe in Neketaka - the Kahanga? - but they are, presumably, the only ones responsible for the state of Neketaka. The Tikiwara or the Wahiki have nothing to do with what's happening in the Gullet. In particular, it's mentioned a few times in the game that prize-share works/worked differently in smaller tribes, when the Ranga knew the names of everybody in the tribe, and that the merging of tribes into the Kahanga and their settlement in Neketaka are unusual occurrences brought about by the arrival of the trading companies in the first place.
In this context, I look at the Kahanga and I wonder if what we see there isn't a version of the Huana in (inevitable) decline, that the Kahanga we see of Neketaka is already a version of Huanan society that's already past saving, that's been "corrupted," if you will, and that otherwise Huanan society worked okay/better. For example, the Tikiwarans seem largely okay, with their main woe being a lack of resources brought about by external pressures, and I wonder if back wherever they originated, they were happy and peaceful, and if the trading companies and pirates and slavers etc.. were all expelled, could they return to that state?
I think this is an unproductive line of reasoning. They aren’t “corrupted”, their way of organizing a society is simply flawed and does not scale with inevitable urbanization. If the VTC and RDC are expelled tomorrow it doesn’t change the fact that the world is changing and the Huana will have to change with it. Or the outsiders will simply come back later with even bigger guns. Apologism for the Huana on those grounds misses the more pertinent reason to defend their right to self determine:
Because any argument that the Huana “deserve” subjugation at the hands of the VTC or the RDC is functionally indistinguishable from British nationalist apologia for the Raj.
Huana BS
They enslaved at least one of their guardians for power and broke every old pact they ever made. They made their bed and are now upset they didn't foresee this end.
Yeah that’s one of the reasons the Queen is pretty upset with the situation since they’re used to fucking over others and now they’re the ones getting screwed over.
I didn’t have much love for the Huana since they literally eat their poor.
Everyone knows a proper society only figuratively eats their poor.
Edit- mind you I didn’t have much love for the other factions either. Though I do have a great love of the Valian accent.
I kept hoping that I'd get to do more with the Dawnstars/Gullet alliance. Because if I had an ideal solution, it would be helping an alliance between the nice religious cult and the bottom rung of Huanan society overthrow everyone.
I rather like that there is no real good faction. I was early one leaning towards supporting the Huana, but the more I work with them the less I want to. But then the other factions have their own issues. At least it seems like you can do all faction quests in the same playthrough, the only thing locked seems to be the ending choice which I assume is coming.
And I just got my first really annoying bug. In the Shadows under Neketaka quest.
I decided to not let the dragon go, since it presumably goes on a rampage and murders a looooooot of people. Thus I started sealing it which starts a fight. But at low health it gives up and lets you reseal it in dialoge. Sadly it just kept fighting me even after this and I was forced to kill it even though I wanted to reseal it.
I rather like that there is no real good faction. I was early one leaning towards supporting the Huana, but the more I work with them the less I want to. But then the other factions have their own issues. At least it seems like you can do all faction quests in the same playthrough, the only thing locked seems to be the ending choice which I assume is coming.
And I just got my first really annoying bug. In the Shadows under Neketaka quest.
I decided to not let the dragon go, since it presumably goes on a rampage and murders a looooooot of people. Thus I started sealing it which starts a fight. But at low health it gives up and lets you reseal it in dialoge. Sadly it just kept fighting me even after this and I was forced to kill it even though I wanted to reseal it.
I wish there was a stronger apolitical stance. Like, I'd like it if there was a quest chain that was me building up my own reserves and agents, using the various factions for my own ends while declaring "Saving the world here! On a mission from the gods!" whenever they tried to enlist me.
In a practical sense, you can still do this as soon as you fully upgrade the ship, but it just feels like an arbitrary decision to abandon a bunch of quests and rush to the ending. I'd love a full fledged "Outsider doing a critical mission while avoiding local entanglements" path that felt less like an unintended fail state.
In this context, I look at the Kahanga and I wonder if what we see there isn't a version of the Huana in (inevitable) decline, that the Kahanga we see of Neketaka is already a version of Huanan society that's already past saving, that's been "corrupted," if you will, and that otherwise Huanan society worked okay/better. For example, the Tikiwarans seem largely okay, with their main woe being a lack of resources brought about by external pressures, and I wonder if back wherever they originated, they were happy and peaceful, and if the trading companies and pirates and slavers etc.. were all expelled, could they return to that state?
A 179 word rant on why I hate the Huana (with some spoilers):
You mean the Tikiwarans that was not only in the process of spending their last food supply because their ranga was a blind fool but threw away a potential future source of food because "A weaver couldn't possibly know anything about agriculture" when your own Alchemical knowledge tells you that he knows EXACTLY what he's talking about.
There is no hope for the Huana society with the Mataru at the top, a class so blinded by their privileges that they're doomed to be crushed. Even if I, or even Ondra, back them up it will only be a temporary hold in their inevitable decline. The only decent Mataru I have met so far is Tekehu, who is a spoiled artist but good at heart. The rest are either foolish, blind, conniving, powerhungry or vicious. Despite having every opportunity to not be. I mean, their Queen is a bloody Cipher and can read minds, yet her priorities are so fucked up that she only uses her talent for personal gain (and power ploys) rather than fixing her fucked up society.
That leaders thrown into uncertain situations make bad decisions is not necessarily a condemnation of the society itself. Would we say that Chamberlain's trying to appease Hitler or that Hitler's election itself represent a failure of democracy, that democracy is doomed to fail and should be thrown out? Because that's what 1937 Watcher would see if they visited Europe at the time.
My point simply is that certain criticisms of Huanan society might not be generally applicable to all Huanan societies, especially given the circumstances they're in. It's not clear to me that another, alternative Huanan society would be responding that much better in the current state, because, frankly, they're outgunned, outmanned, and out-knowledge-d. It's not like giving the Roparu the right to vote would change those facts.
In this context, I look at the Kahanga and I wonder if what we see there isn't a version of the Huana in (inevitable) decline, that the Kahanga we see of Neketaka is already a version of Huanan society that's already past saving, that's been "corrupted," if you will, and that otherwise Huanan society worked okay/better. For example, the Tikiwarans seem largely okay, with their main woe being a lack of resources brought about by external pressures, and I wonder if back wherever they originated, they were happy and peaceful, and if the trading companies and pirates and slavers etc.. were all expelled, could they return to that state?
A 179 word rant on why I hate the Huana (with some spoilers):
You mean the Tikiwarans that was not only in the process of spending their last food supply because their ranga was a blind fool but threw away a potential future source of food because "A weaver couldn't possibly know anything about agriculture" when your own Alchemical knowledge tells you that he knows EXACTLY what he's talking about.
There is no hope for the Huana society with the Mataru at the top, a class so blinded by their privileges that they're doomed to be crushed. Even if I, or even Ondra, back them up it will only be a temporary hold in their inevitable decline. The only decent Mataru I have met so far is Tekehu, who is a spoiled artist but good at heart. The rest are either foolish, blind, conniving, powerhungry or vicious. Despite having every opportunity to not be. I mean, their Queen is a bloody Cipher and can read minds, yet her priorities are so fucked up that she only uses her talent for personal gain (and power ploys) rather than fixing her fucked up society.
That leaders thrown into uncertain situations make bad decisions is not necessarily a condemnation of the society itself. Would we say that Chamberlain's trying to appease Hitler or that Hitler's election itself represent a failure of democracy, that democracy is doomed to fail and should be thrown out? Because that's what 1937 Watcher would see if they visited Europe at the time.
My point simply is that certain criticisms of Huanan society might not be generally applicable to all Huanan societies, especially given the circumstances they're in. It's not clear to me that another, alternative Huanan society would be responding that much better in the current state, because, frankly, they're outgunned, outmanned, and out-knowledge-d. It's not like giving the Roparu the right to vote would change those facts.
IMHO the flaws we see in Huana society are systemic, the natural end results of an inherently unfair system lacking in social mobility and by extension unable to cope with change.
"The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
In this context, I look at the Kahanga and I wonder if what we see there isn't a version of the Huana in (inevitable) decline, that the Kahanga we see of Neketaka is already a version of Huanan society that's already past saving, that's been "corrupted," if you will, and that otherwise Huanan society worked okay/better. For example, the Tikiwarans seem largely okay, with their main woe being a lack of resources brought about by external pressures, and I wonder if back wherever they originated, they were happy and peaceful, and if the trading companies and pirates and slavers etc.. were all expelled, could they return to that state?
A 179 word rant on why I hate the Huana (with some spoilers):
You mean the Tikiwarans that was not only in the process of spending their last food supply because their ranga was a blind fool but threw away a potential future source of food because "A weaver couldn't possibly know anything about agriculture" when your own Alchemical knowledge tells you that he knows EXACTLY what he's talking about.
There is no hope for the Huana society with the Mataru at the top, a class so blinded by their privileges that they're doomed to be crushed. Even if I, or even Ondra, back them up it will only be a temporary hold in their inevitable decline. The only decent Mataru I have met so far is Tekehu, who is a spoiled artist but good at heart. The rest are either foolish, blind, conniving, powerhungry or vicious. Despite having every opportunity to not be. I mean, their Queen is a bloody Cipher and can read minds, yet her priorities are so fucked up that she only uses her talent for personal gain (and power ploys) rather than fixing her fucked up society.
That leaders thrown into uncertain situations make bad decisions is not necessarily a condemnation of the society itself. Would we say that Chamberlain's trying to appease Hitler or that Hitler's election itself represent a failure of democracy, that democracy is doomed to fail and should be thrown out? Because that's what 1937 Watcher would see if they visited Europe at the time.
My point simply is that certain criticisms of Huanan society might not be generally applicable to all Huanan societies, especially given the circumstances they're in. It's not clear to me that another, alternative Huanan society would be responding that much better in the current state, because, frankly, they're outgunned, outmanned, and out-knowledge-d. It's not like giving the Roparu the right to vote would change those facts.
IMHO the flaws we see in Huana society are systemic, the natural end results of an inherently unfair system lacking in social mobility and by extension unable to cope with change.
That's not an unreasonable position to hold, given what we believe about meritocracies. But ...
the Queen rose on merit, didn't she? She's queen by virtue of having united many Huana under the Koparu (not the Kahanga, which is the palace name) tribe, by virtue of being a cipher in a long line of ciphers. A different sort of merit, perhaps....
It also doesn't really answer the question of what happens now. The Huana don't have the time to turn into a meritocratic society and then catch up technologically and sociologically.
About the Huana, it should be noted that there is no monolithic Huana and they are separate tribes. I can't recall right now the name of the main Huana tribe in Neketaka - the Kahanga? - but they are, presumably, the only ones responsible for the state of Neketaka. The Tikiwara or the Wahiki have nothing to do with what's happening in the Gullet. In particular, it's mentioned a few times in the game that prize-share works/worked differently in smaller tribes, when the Ranga knew the names of everybody in the tribe, and that the merging of tribes into the Kahanga and their settlement in Neketaka are unusual occurrences brought about by the arrival of the trading companies in the first place.
In this context, I look at the Kahanga and I wonder if what we see there isn't a version of the Huana in (inevitable) decline, that the Kahanga we see of Neketaka is already a version of Huanan society that's already past saving, that's been "corrupted," if you will, and that otherwise Huanan society worked okay/better. For example, the Tikiwarans seem largely okay, with their main woe being a lack of resources brought about by external pressures, and I wonder if back wherever they originated, they were happy and peaceful, and if the trading companies and pirates and slavers etc.. were all expelled, could they return to that state?
I think this is an unproductive line of reasoning. They aren’t “corrupted”, their way of organizing a society is simply flawed and does not scale with inevitable urbanization. If the VTC and RDC are expelled tomorrow it doesn’t change the fact that the world is changing and the Huana will have to change with it. Or the outsiders will simply come back later with even bigger guns. Apologism for the Huana on those grounds misses the more pertinent reason to defend their right to self determine:
Because any argument that the Huana “deserve” subjugation at the hands of the VTC or the RDC is functionally indistinguishable from British nationalist apologia for the Raj.
Huana BS
They enslaved at least one of their guardians for power and broke every old pact they ever made. They made their bed and are now upset they didn't foresee this end.
And?
The problem with subjugating a group of people in the name of "progress" is that the one doing the subjugating is never, ever using progress as anything more than a fig leaf casus belli to ransack the place for resources.
Source: all of human history
Attempting to identify the most "moral" group is an exercise in futility. They are all criminals of varying calibers. It makes more sense to focus on probable outcomes.
Posts
It seems to be that:
In pre-god Eora, the flow of souls from the Adra was two way. Souls both went into the Adra, and came back out to be reincarnated. In post-god Eora, that flow now only goes one way - to the gods in the Adra.
The gods seems to be able to control soul energy themselves. Like how Eothas could absorb souls and send souls to empower specific people like in the animancy ending, same way the Watcher did with the Engwithan machiine in the PoE1 ending.
So even without the Wheel, the Gods could manually send out soul energy from the Beyond to drive the cycle of reincarnation.
I assume that the Wheel existed as a way to distribute souls automatically, as a form of a truce between the gods. Without the wheel, the gods controlling reincarnation themselves would cause a lot of conflict between them and their favored people.
It seems that there was a war between the gods before the Wheel was established, which was why they gave up their physical bodies and build the Wheel to drive reincarnation.
"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
More end spoilers:
The impression I got was that the Wheel basically held mortals hostage to the Gods whims, but without it the Gods and Kith are on equal footing. If Kith wish to worship their God thats fine. If not then their souls aren’t gonna get fucked over in the afterlife.
Which follows with what you learn in PoE1. What with the Engiwthans creating the Gods and the Wheel because the idea of there being no Divine retribution for actions taken during life was something they were terrified of people finding out.
I have more speculation.
When they were walking the Earth, they could control souls the same way Eothas does. But when Ondra killed Abydon, they decided to abandon their physical bodies and reside directly in the Adra.
The destruction of the world ending implies that the Adra and Beyond has some sort of consciousness of its own. Eothas injects the Adra with his feelings of doubt about the meaning of life, and that causes all of Eora to dissolve itself.
Before the gods, the consciousness of the Adra had a passive drive for creation and life, which drove the cycle of reincarnation. That drive is suppressed by that existence of the Gods now in the Beyond, so the wheel is necessary.
I think that if the gods were removed from the Beyond, that drive would reassert itself and reincarnation would begin again.
"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
So wants to take guesses at where PoE3 will take place? Presuming and hoping there will be a third.
My guess? The Living Lands.
So the choice is an imperfect status quo with the gods still in play or a uncertain future where the safety net is gone. No matter what choice you make at the end, things will change. Maybe the DLC will spend more time around the problem or the situation in deadfire, but we'll see.
Finished the game with 36 hours played, most stuff done so I have a bunch of blessing points to use in a future playthrough. Won't be right away, but after a bit of time. Fun game though.
I'm being pretty completionist as I'm jobless at the moment
Its been a pretty fun game but buggy. Scaling doesnt seem to work at all. Definitely going to wait for a good patch before I do another run through.
36 hours seems hella fast - I'm at 24 now and not even high enough level to take on the first story mission post Neketaka. I've only been to one other island apart from the city and the tutorial so far.
There's a memory leak issue that they claim to have solved in the beta patch
It should hit live soon. I think they said last week it was planned for today(Tuesday), but it has probably been postponed as more bugs have shown up
You can opt in for the beta patch on Steam if you don't want to wait
A lot of answers about bugs they're fixing. Still watching it, but the disposition system bugs/quirks are going to be fixed. Josh talked about how they did a late pass on dialogue to add dispositions to choices and they may have gone overboard a bit.
Which left me saying to myself, "BWHAAAA?! I never uttered a single falsehood since arriving in this shithole of an archipelago!"
Much later on I had Eder tell me how I wasn't the same person he used to know and that he didn't like how I was acting. And again I was all, "Literally the same I was in PoE 1! Benevolent, Honest, and fair!"
Jesus, how much did you skip? That is such a short playtime.
Switch: SW-3515-0057-3813 FF XIV: Q'vehn Tia
Now I have people in Neketaka hunting me down to repay his debts :surprised:
Most of it the game handles great, and if you talk to people after you do things rather than before, you can still get credit.
In this particular instance though, I finished a quest to convince some folks to help other folks, but didn't get credit. I noticed later that I never got credit, so I went back, and now they say they won't help.
Also, soulbound weapons can't be straight-upgrade enchanted (e.g. from superb to legendary), that kind of stinks.
Yeah I ran into that same bug. I'll have to do that end game route later. I think I will wait for all the DLC to drop before doing a second run through though.
"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
I'm pretty near the endgame, and the bugs are stacking up to the point that it is getting discouraging. Pretty much all of them are related to triggers messing up and not firing as the decision trees get more complex, so I feel pretty confident that they'll get fixed eventually.
Once I got to that point I just finished the game. Can always replay it later in a few months once the bugs are squashed.
The Valians are hyper Neutral Evil capitalists basically there to strip the land bear of Adra and trick the natives into contracts they dont understand.
The Rauatai exemplify a colonizing Lawful Evil group. The come in by force and simply take over with guns and ships.
The Principi are Chaotic Neutral/Evil pirates. They like to do pirate things but hey at least one part of the faction doesnt believe in Slavery...
The Huana are a bunch of wishy washy non-united communist layabouts who allow their lower castes to starve to death.
I went with the Huana....mostly for the achievement points and not their cause.
I think the factions are the way they are to force the player to think about what matters to them. Order? Progress? Individual freedom? Cultural self determination?
All of the factions champion one of these things at great cost. There is no 21st century secular humanist morality option.
White FC: 0819 3350 1787
In this context, I look at the Kahanga and I wonder if what we see there isn't a version of the Huana in (inevitable) decline, that the Kahanga we see of Neketaka is already a version of Huanan society that's already past saving, that's been "corrupted," if you will, and that otherwise Huanan society worked okay/better. For example, the Tikiwarans seem largely okay, with their main woe being a lack of resources brought about by external pressures, and I wonder if back wherever they originated, they were happy and peaceful, and if the trading companies and pirates and slavers etc.. were all expelled, could they return to that state?
I think this is an unproductive line of reasoning. They aren’t “corrupted”, their way of organizing a society is simply flawed and does not scale with inevitable urbanization. If the VTC and RDC are expelled tomorrow it doesn’t change the fact that the world is changing and the Huana will have to change with it. Or the outsiders will simply come back later with even bigger guns. Apologism for the Huana on those grounds misses the more pertinent reason to defend their right to self determine:
Because any argument that the Huana “deserve” subjugation at the hands of the VTC or the RDC is functionally indistinguishable from British nationalist apologia for the Raj.
White FC: 0819 3350 1787
The Rauatai can be reformed to be more Lawful Neutral/Good if you help Maia, as she becomes a reformist back home and the Ranga Nui listens to her.
The Huana can be persuaded to care better for their Lower Caste.
"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
Huana BS
As it is, I want to support someone, but none of them appeal to me
I'm only leaning towards the Valians because I'm a little bit scared of Pallegina
My understanding is that (ending spoiler):
In the turmoil that followed the fall of Ukaizo, Periki did what she felt she needed to do to secure a future for the Huana, which meant keeping Watershaping alive by enslaving the dragon. Watershaping was previously powered by Ondra herself when she walked Eora as a titan.
Present day Huana have no fucking idea what happened though, only the Watershaper Guildmaster had that knowledge pasted down.
"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
A 179 word rant on why I hate the Huana (with some spoilers):
There is no hope for the Huana society with the Mataru at the top, a class so blinded by their privileges that they're doomed to be crushed. Even if I, or even Ondra, back them up it will only be a temporary hold in their inevitable decline. The only decent Mataru I have met so far is Tekehu, who is a spoiled artist but good at heart. The rest are either foolish, blind, conniving, powerhungry or vicious. Despite having every opportunity to not be. I mean, their Queen is a bloody Cipher and can read minds, yet her priorities are so fucked up that she only uses her talent for personal gain (and power ploys) rather than fixing her fucked up society.
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
I didn’t have much love for the Huana since they literally eat their poor.
Everyone knows a proper society only figuratively eats their poor.
Edit- mind you I didn’t have much love for the other factions either. Though I do have a great love of the Valian accent.
And I just got my first really annoying bug. In the Shadows under Neketaka quest.
In a practical sense, you can still do this as soon as you fully upgrade the ship, but it just feels like an arbitrary decision to abandon a bunch of quests and rush to the ending. I'd love a full fledged "Outsider doing a critical mission while avoiding local entanglements" path that felt less like an unintended fail state.
That leaders thrown into uncertain situations make bad decisions is not necessarily a condemnation of the society itself. Would we say that Chamberlain's trying to appease Hitler or that Hitler's election itself represent a failure of democracy, that democracy is doomed to fail and should be thrown out? Because that's what 1937 Watcher would see if they visited Europe at the time.
My point simply is that certain criticisms of Huanan society might not be generally applicable to all Huanan societies, especially given the circumstances they're in. It's not clear to me that another, alternative Huanan society would be responding that much better in the current state, because, frankly, they're outgunned, outmanned, and out-knowledge-d. It's not like giving the Roparu the right to vote would change those facts.
IMHO the flaws we see in Huana society are systemic, the natural end results of an inherently unfair system lacking in social mobility and by extension unable to cope with change.
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
That's not an unreasonable position to hold, given what we believe about meritocracies. But ...
It also doesn't really answer the question of what happens now. The Huana don't have the time to turn into a meritocratic society and then catch up technologically and sociologically.
And?
Source: all of human history
Attempting to identify the most "moral" group is an exercise in futility. They are all criminals of varying calibers. It makes more sense to focus on probable outcomes.
White FC: 0819 3350 1787