MLB 2019: Astros More like Cheatros

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  • fortisfortis OhioRegistered User regular
    Anything less than a postseason ban for at least a year is cowardice by the MLB.

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    Goumindong
  • RedTideRedTide Registered User regular
    fortis wrote: »
    Anything less than a postseason ban for at least a year is cowardice by the MLB.

    Are you aware of any latitude in the rules that would permit a punishment like that?

    It would obviously be a variably significant punishment since post season viability tends to come in clusters in the MLB and losing a year during a viable period would sting bad.

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  • FoefallerFoefaller Registered User regular
    edited January 14
    Maximum wrote: »

    They were then sacked by the owner within the hour of announcing
    RedTide wrote: »
    fortis wrote: »
    Anything less than a postseason ban for at least a year is cowardice by the MLB.

    Are you aware of any latitude in the rules that would permit a punishment like that?

    It would obviously be a variably significant punishment since post season viability tends to come in clusters in the MLB and losing a year during a viable period would sting bad.

    What I've been seeing is that this is more or less the harshest penalty the main MLB office can dole out, especially considering Manfred had to know the GM and Manager would be fired as soon as they were banned, even if it was a temp ban.

    Also, sign-stealing is actually allowed (mostly on the basis of "you're not going to stop players from doing something that's been done for over a century") but it's only permissible if it's done old-school, with runners trying to glimpse the catchers fingers from on base real time to signal back to the batter. Using cameras and video recordings is how they broke the rules.

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  • PiotyrPiotyr Registered User regular
    Astros reportedly hiring Dusty Baker to be their new manager, which is a tough but fair punishment to the Astros players for the cheating scandal.

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  • The Escape GoatThe Escape Goat but not a real green dress, that's cruel Registered User regular
    Piotyr wrote: »
    Astros reportedly hiring Dusty Baker to be their new manager, which is a tough but fair punishment to the Astros players for the cheating scandal.

    Get your bets on their ALDS exit in ASAP.

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  • MaximumMaximum Registered User regular
    Dusty is good. They don't deserve him.

  • PiotyrPiotyr Registered User regular
    Maximum wrote: »
    Dusty is good. They don't deserve him.

    Dusty is good at a few things that make him look better than the reality:

    1. Taking over as manager on teams that are already good.
    2. Going all out in every regular season game to thelong term detriment of his players, particularly pitchers.

    This results in gaudy regular season records and playoff appearances, followed by playoff disappointment stemming from being outcoached against a decent opponent, with tired players and injured pitchers. Then he leaves before the situation goes totally south.

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  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    MLB has announced rule changes for 2020.

    https://www.mlb.com/news/mlb-rule-changes-for-2020-season

    Major things in here:

    3 batter minimum for pitchers. No more bringing in a specialist for a batter or a pitch. Everyone does 1/2 an inning. This also leads to the roster changes of 26 people and a max of 14 pitchers. Also challenge time is 20 seconds instead of 30.

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  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    I like the 3 batter thing for pitchers. I love a good middle reliever or closer, but this bring in one guy for one guy and then he's out of the game is dumb

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  • GONG-00GONG-00 Registered User regular
    Aren't there scenarios where such pitcher management bites the team in the ass?

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  • chrono_travellerchrono_traveller Registered User regular
    Pour one out for all the LOOGYs! :cry:

    One of my favorite acronyms!

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    George R. R. Martin is not your bitch. ~ Neil Gaiman
  • CauldCauld Registered User regular
    LOOGY is a good acronym. I've read that specialists were on the decline anyway, but still kinda sad to see them go.

  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    GONG-00 wrote: »
    Aren't there scenarios where such pitcher management bites the team in the ass?

    Yes. Its very expensive in terms of bullpen and so its very possible to run out of pitchers if a game goes long

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  • chrono_travellerchrono_traveller Registered User regular
    I like the change because it does prevent extended breaks (particularly in the playoffs) where you have (relatively frequently) pitching change, batter, pitching change to get the one big threat out, which just seems to drag things out forever. Also it might also increase scoring, since you whomever you bring in for that big hitter will have to stay around longer.

    The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it. ~ Terry Pratchett

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  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    Every team should just forfeit their games against the Astros. Just let that team get their cheap wins and send the signal that their record is worthless.

    Three things in human life are important: the first is to be kind; the second is to be kind; and the third is to be kind.
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  • DisrupterDisrupter Registered User regular
    edited February 17
    So with this whole Houston astros thing....

    Can someone explain to me how the twins had like 5 players with slugging percentage jump 150-200 points and almost every single position player have a career year last season?

    Liiiike... they definitely cheated right?

    Disrupter on
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  • MugsleyMugsley Registered User regular
    edited February 18
    Every team should just forfeit their games against the Astros. Just let that team get their cheap wins and send the signal that their record is worthless.

    Conversely, someone I follow on Twitter said the Astros should be punished by being forced to tell hitters what pitch is coming, for an entire season. I actually like that.

    I haven't been keeping close track of this situation, but can someone explain what the back-and-forth was with the incident of Altuve going back to the locker room after the WS win, and coming out with a shirt on? Were people implying he had some sort of mic/device under his jersey that he needed to discard/hide before celebrating? (I'm not saying this isn't the case; I just wasn't familiar with the situation; also maybe he just needed to poop really really badly >.>)

    Mugsley on
  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    He hit a home run to win the game and when rounding third into home told his teammates not to rip his shirt off.

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  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Goumindong wrote: »
    He hit a home run to win the game and when rounding third into home told his teammates not to rip his shirt off.

    Yeah that whole clip looks super weird in the wake of the scandal.

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  • eelektrikeelektrik Registered User regular
    Supposedly(according to teammate Carlos Correa) his wife told him not to remove his shirt on the field and that Altuve was also really embarrassed about a horrible unfinished collarbone tattoo or something.... yeah, not buying that.

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  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    eelektrik wrote: »
    Supposedly(according to teammate Carlos Correa) his wife told him not to remove his shirt on the field and that Altuve was also really embarrassed about a horrible unfinished collarbone tattoo or something.... yeah, not buying that.

    I mean who doesn't get a new tattoo during the post season that they are super embarrassed about.

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  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    The whole thing is fucking stupid because they want to argue that Altuve "didn't cheat" and therefore is still deserving of the MVP award.

    That's not how it works. Everyone knows that your team's performance is intrinsically tied to whether or not you get MVP votes, fair or not. Plus, even if he didn't benefit directly, his teammates did and he didn't say anything. That makes him, at the very least, complicit, and would have impacted votes as well.

    That whole fucking team and organization need to admit they cheated, apologize, and then shut the fuck up and take what's coming to them.

    Three things in human life are important: the first is to be kind; the second is to be kind; and the third is to be kind.
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  • eelektrikeelektrik Registered User regular
    These cheating teams should forfeit any and all individual or team awards for those seasons. 2017 AL MVP Altuve, 2018 AL MVP Mookie Betts too. Aaron Judge and Mike Trout should be given those awards. The Dodgers should be awarded back to back World Series too.

    Every single player on those teams should have asterisks for every stat for those seasons in the record books. They need to throw the book at them, your team gets caught cheating and you did/said nothing about it you get no recognition.

    They need to make it severe enough so that players won't stand for anyone in their organization cheating and they'd police themselves in fear of the repercussions.

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  • RedTideRedTide Registered User regular
    eelektrik wrote: »
    These cheating teams should forfeit any and all individual or team awards for those seasons. 2017 AL MVP Altuve, 2018 AL MVP Mookie Betts too. Aaron Judge and Mike Trout should be given those awards. The Dodgers should be awarded back to back World Series too.

    Every single player on those teams should have asterisks for every stat for those seasons in the record books. They need to throw the book at them, your team gets caught cheating and you did/said nothing about it you get no recognition.

    They need to make it severe enough so that players won't stand for anyone in their organization cheating and they'd police themselves in fear of the repercussions.

    I'd rather they just have the titles vacated and just have there be no AL pennant winner or World Series Winner for those years.

    All of those individual achievements should be stricken since the second runner ups efforts are not intrinsically tied to the others cheating.

    I'd also go a step further and have all of their home stats wiped from their records.

    Pitchers don't get those wins, hitters those hits and so on.

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  • RedTideRedTide Registered User regular
    The most telling stat I've heard in this whole affair has been that in 2016 the Astros had the second most strikeouts in the league.

    In 2017 they had the least - they had an average of two less per game throughout the season.

    Even controlling for modest, honest improvement that means they probably got to put the ball in play three times more on average per home game - resulting in an out each game. Which means there were even more occasions likely resulting in hits.

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  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    Every team should just forfeit their games against the Astros. Just let that team get their cheap wins and send the signal that their record is worthless.

    I take this back.

    Every team should send all their pitchers up to bean every single player they face until all their pitchers are thrown out of the game.

    Then they can forfeit.

    Three things in human life are important: the first is to be kind; the second is to be kind; and the third is to be kind.
    Ticaldfjam
  • chrono_travellerchrono_traveller Registered User regular
    edited February 19
    Every team should just forfeit their games against the Astros. Just let that team get their cheap wins and send the signal that their record is worthless.

    I take this back.

    Every team should send all their pitchers up to bean every single player they face until all their pitchers are thrown out of the game.

    Then they can forfeit.

    Are you a betting man?

    There's an over/under of 83.5 for Houston batters getting hit by pitches this season

    chrono_traveller on
    The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it. ~ Terry Pratchett

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  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    Every team should just forfeit their games against the Astros. Just let that team get their cheap wins and send the signal that their record is worthless.

    I take this back.

    Every team should send all their pitchers up to bean every single player they face until all their pitchers are thrown out of the game.

    Then they can forfeit.

    Are you a betting man?

    There's an over/under of 83.5 for Houston batters getting hit by pitches this season

    I feel like the action on this is skewed by what people want to see happen vs. what will actually happen. =P

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  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    Every team should just forfeit their games against the Astros. Just let that team get their cheap wins and send the signal that their record is worthless.

    I take this back.

    Every team should send all their pitchers up to bean every single player they face until all their pitchers are thrown out of the game.

    Then they can forfeit.

    Are you a betting man?

    There's an over/under of 83.5 for Houston batters getting hit by pitches this season

    And the article provides the baseline. 66.1 HBPs was the average over the last season.

    Meaning 84 to get the over would mean more than a 27% increase in hit batters.

    Seems like a safe bet, given the emotion, but I think the number would have to be significantly higher (without being excessive) at the start of the season, to account for the likely interference from the MLB if that 27% remained constant, specifically for the Astros.

    Unless their feckless position on this whole thing was less "We don't think they should be punished harshly" and more one of those 'unwritten rules' that baseball seems to have shitloads of, whereby "We think they should be punished in the traditional manner".

    In which case, fuck the MLB even more. Relying on extra-judicial corporal punishment is not how any organization should be run.

    chrono_traveller
  • MancingtomMancingtom Registered User regular
    I hate sports.

    Manfred is spineless. In the short-term, this will only encourage teams to take matters into their hands w/r/t the Astros. In the long-term, it incentives cheating—even if you’re caught, there will be no lasting punishment.

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  • MugsleyMugsley Registered User regular
    Every Astros-Yankees game this coming season just became must-see TV.

    ElvenshaeTicaldfjam
  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    Mugsley wrote: »
    Every Astros-Yankees game this coming season just became must-see TV.

    And like the trashy magazines that spawn the paparazzi industry, should be completely ignored. Behaviour like this shouldn't be rewarded, but it will be, because people love spectacle.

    Bread and circuses.

  • knitdanknitdan Registered User regular
    Mancingtom wrote: »
    I hate sports.

    Manfred is spineless. In the short-term, this will only encourage teams to take matters into their hands w/r/t the Astros. In the long-term, it incentives cheating—even if you’re caught, there will be no lasting punishment.

    I get that any punishment meted out to the players would likely be overturned on appeal. But it would at least force the player’s union to publicly defend the cheaters! Which is a bad look for the union and might get him some leverage to get it fixed in the next CBA!

    Meanwhile, the current situation is making me wish i didn’t hold the principle of “baseball’s unwritten rules are bad and stupid and throwing at people is always bad.”

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  • Dark_SideDark_Side Registered User regular
    edited February 20
    So shitty to basically put the players in the position of either meting out, or receiving mob justice. Someone is going to get accidentally cracked in the face and all hell is going to let loose.

    I got stuck listening to Cowherd defend Manfred's punishments today by what about'ing the steroid era and the Yankees benefiting from it. Yeah dude, it was cheating then and it's cheating now, and the league ignoring it then doesn't have anything to do with how they should deal with it now. He also went on this whole thing about how these guys will be denied the HoF and all will be right in the world, as if there's not been nearly a decade long push now to soft peddle Pete Rose's transgressions and get him admitted.

    Dark_Side on
  • SixSix Quite worryingly erotic Registered User regular
    Every team should just forfeit their games against the Astros. Just let that team get their cheap wins and send the signal that their record is worthless.

    I take this back.

    Every team should send all their pitchers up to bean every single player they face until all their pitchers are thrown out of the game.

    Then they can forfeit.

    Are you a betting man?

    There's an over/under of 83.5 for Houston batters getting hit by pitches this season

    I feel like the action on this is skewed by what people want to see happen vs. what will actually happen. =P

    Then bet the under and clean up.

    I’m not sure I’m willing to take that bet, myself

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  • Doctor DetroitDoctor Detroit Registered User regular
    Eh, steroids are less of a guarantee of success than knowing what pitch is coming.

    Also, I don’t think there’s been any evidence of team-wide steroid conspiracies.

  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Oh Big Papi is trending I wonder what fo...

    Fuck you asshole.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

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  • chrono_travellerchrono_traveller Registered User regular
    The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it. ~ Terry Pratchett

    George R. R. Martin is not your bitch. ~ Neil Gaiman
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  • admanbadmanb unionize your workplace Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    Jose Canseco is making more sense than David Ortiz... this is truly the darkest timeline:

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  • Doctor DetroitDoctor Detroit Registered User regular
    The way Ortiz is acting, combined with the investigation into the 2018 team...do we need to start looking at other Red Sox teams?

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