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[Daredevil] is a Man Without A Tv Show

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  • Johnny ChopsockyJohnny Chopsocky Scootaloo! We have to cook! Grillin' HaysenburgersRegistered User regular
    edited March 2016
    TexiKen wrote: »
    episode 6

    Elektra's still annoying as all get out. Plus the whole pretend to be having sex to get out of being caught seemed rather forced.

    The entire Frank/Karen/Foggy stuff was aces, especially the family stuff topped off with Frank being Frank and just going fuck you. Bernthal needs to be nominated for an Emmy.

    I just want to say more than anything I love Frank's theme. It has taken that terrible bwaaaaaaam from all the trailers always and made it more menacing like he's Pyramid Head or something. Best piece of music in the Netflix stuff by far.

    The show does a very good job at presenting The Punisher as an almost mythic figure, which is incredible considering this is basically his origin story.

    It's just every time he enters the frame, it's like the show and everyone in it just stops to consider the weight of his presence.

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  • HandgimpHandgimp R+L=J Family PhotoRegistered User regular
    TexiKen wrote: »
    episode 6

    Elektra's still annoying as all get out. Plus the whole pretend to be having sex to get out of being caught seemed rather forced.

    The entire Frank/Karen/Foggy stuff was aces, especially the family stuff topped off with Frank being Frank and just going fuck you. Bernthal needs to be nominated for an Emmy.

    I just want to say more than anything I love Frank's theme. It has taken that terrible bwaaaaaaam from all the trailers always and made it more menacing like he's Pyramid Head or something. Best piece of music in the Netflix stuff by far.

    For me it evokes Requiem for a Dream.

    PwH4Ipj.jpg
  • Dark Raven XDark Raven X Laugh hard, run fast, be kindRegistered User regular
    I can no longer find it, but I swear Fisk's theme in Season 1 was very similar, used that same bwaaaarm.

    Oh brilliant
  • TexiKenTexiKen PPTenshi Registered User regular
    Episode 7

    Foggy's actually grown a pair, good for him, him becoming a good lawyer on his own feels much more natural than I expected the show to do. It's like all of Foggy's annoyingness from last season was taken away and then dumped into Elektra. Everything with the court room snafu was well done.

    This episode had some bad fight choreography at the end, mainly the three bad guys outside of Not-Shadowland, some of the punches DD threw clearly didn't connect.


    Episode 8

    Elektra and Matt have no chemistry together, that could be why I find her so annoying. They're going through the motions of an ex couple with possible OTP lingering (but you scoff and laugh because DD/Black Widow will always be the best) yet there's nothing there acting wise, the small moments of Matt and Karen have worked better.

    Nice cliffhanger, although I was hoping for the mysterious cop to just be from a group of cops who wanted to get Frank back out on the street to make their jobs easier, not just working for Fisk.

    Surprised they haven't taken full advantage of the Hand being fart clouds so you can kill them all you want, that's why Elektra throat slitting the lil ninja missed the emotional weight it was supposed to have.


    So far I've liked this season a lot better than season 1. I don't even recognize the episodes being an hour long.

  • KadokenKadoken Giving Ends to my Friends and it Feels Stupendous Registered User regular
    R
    TexiKen wrote: »
    Episode 7

    Foggy's actually grown a pair, good for him, him becoming a good lawyer on his own feels much more natural than I expected the show to do. It's like all of Foggy's annoyingness from last season was taken away and then dumped into Elektra. Everything with the court room snafu was well done.

    This episode had some bad fight choreography at the end, mainly the three bad guys outside of Not-Shadowland, some of the punches DD threw clearly didn't connect.


    Episode 8

    Elektra and Matt have no chemistry together, that could be why I find her so annoying. They're going through the motions of an ex couple with possible OTP lingering (but you scoff and laugh because DD/Black Widow will always be the best) yet there's nothing there acting wise, the small moments of Matt and Karen have worked better.

    Nice cliffhanger, although I was hoping for the mysterious cop to just be from a group of cops who wanted to get Frank back out on the street to make their jobs easier, not just working for Fisk.

    Surprised they haven't taken full advantage of the Hand being fart clouds so you can kill them all you want, that's why Elektra throat slitting the lil ninja missed the emotional weight it was supposed to have.


    So far I've liked this season a lot better than season 1. I don't even recognize the episodes being an hour long.
    I disagree. Karen and Matt have no chemistry. Every scene with them being girlfriend-boyfriend falls flat for me. It's like what people say of the forced Oliver-Laurel love plot of Arrow. Elektra and Matt have at least a little spark, even if it's through a done before exes with sordid pasts getting back together sort of thing

    Hellbore
  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    Kadoken wrote: »
    R
    TexiKen wrote: »
    Episode 7

    Foggy's actually grown a pair, good for him, him becoming a good lawyer on his own feels much more natural than I expected the show to do. It's like all of Foggy's annoyingness from last season was taken away and then dumped into Elektra. Everything with the court room snafu was well done.

    This episode had some bad fight choreography at the end, mainly the three bad guys outside of Not-Shadowland, some of the punches DD threw clearly didn't connect.


    Episode 8

    Elektra and Matt have no chemistry together, that could be why I find her so annoying. They're going through the motions of an ex couple with possible OTP lingering (but you scoff and laugh because DD/Black Widow will always be the best) yet there's nothing there acting wise, the small moments of Matt and Karen have worked better.

    Nice cliffhanger, although I was hoping for the mysterious cop to just be from a group of cops who wanted to get Frank back out on the street to make their jobs easier, not just working for Fisk.

    Surprised they haven't taken full advantage of the Hand being fart clouds so you can kill them all you want, that's why Elektra throat slitting the lil ninja missed the emotional weight it was supposed to have.


    So far I've liked this season a lot better than season 1. I don't even recognize the episodes being an hour long.
    I disagree. Karen and Matt have no chemistry. Every scene with them being girlfriend-boyfriend falls flat for me. It's like what people say of the forced Oliver-Laurel love plot of Arrow. Elektra and Matt have at least a little spark, even if it's through a done before exes with sordid pasts getting back together sort of thing
    Pfff. Matt has chemistry with everyone. His chemistry with Punisher is off the charts - after season 2 I expect Fanfic.net to get hundreds of DD+Punisher=OTP stories.

  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    edited March 2016
    one thing that always cracks me up in secret identity stories (especially now that many are live action) is the reaction of the protagonist when a supporting character is less than sanguine about vigilantism

    like, in episode two or three when karen
    floats her batman-adjacent theory about daredevil maybe inspiring his own enemies and/or other vigilantes, Matt looks at her like she just told him she's a Trump supporter

    a lot of stories have used that little device and it always makes me giggle, when the protagonist is outraged and then can't explain why

    Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
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  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    also hopefully someone lets karen in on the whole thing before long because this deal where a member of the cast has to be kept in the dark for reasons of dramatic tension is gettin' kinda tired

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  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    edited March 2016
    Anyone else feel like
    There's an element of Karen sympathizing with Frank and his methods as, I'm assuming, a way of absolving her guilt over killing Wesley last season.

    Undead Scottsman on
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  • ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    The Ender wrote: »
    Ninjeff wrote: »
    Dedwrekka wrote: »
    Ziggymon wrote: »
    Dedwrekka wrote: »
    Ziggymon wrote: »


    Movie Bob didn't like season 2 apparently.

    So Movie Bob hasn't improved much. That was 10 minutes of babble to get to the point that he doesn't like Elektra as its not the character he remembers. I also get the point that he likes Jessica Jones series better but objectively Daredevil series so far is in another league in quality. I also found it funny he rags on Daredevil character being this teenage angst character cool for 10 year olds and then go on a love letter obsession on how the Punisher "Fucking Rocks!!1!".
    Series Spoilers
    He dislikes Electra because she has no agency of her own, and for being wholly motivated by what Stick, Matt, and later the Hand think about her.
    He specifically calls out the original character for not being good either, but at least having agency over her actions.

    If you think the Punisher in the show is a teenage angst character, you obviously haven't been watching the show.
    Pony wrote: »
    I think maybe people are confusing Movie Bob with opinions worth listening to

    ayyyyyyyy

    (I think Movie Bob sucks get it)

    The level of actual critical analysis in MovieBob's reviews is better than what tends to pop up around here, much less what pops up in opposition to his reviews.

    I disagree with him on some key points in the review, but the "lol Bob" response is basically why I subscribe to his channel. Because he stands out as someone within the community who actually does competent reviews without the usual internet level of banter which sums up anything as either sucking or rocking only on surface details without bothering to even recognize why they like something.

    I have watched the show quite well thanks, however I was specifically quoting Bob's like on the Punisher as ironic as its exactly what a teenage angst person would say. For him to also state that Matt throughout both seasons is nothing more than this is pretty shallow thinking.

    That isn't what he said at all!
    It probably sounds like I’m ragging on this season and the series in a general and, I should stress, I’m not. Apart from the existing issues with the costuming and the pacing and the lighting (or rather lack thereof) and the huge Elektra-shaped dead weight dragging down the back half I actually really dig and have a lot of fun with DAREDEVIL – including some of the stuff that doesn’t totally work.

    DAREDEVIL is the most “serious” Marvel production so far, which, paradoxically, often makes it the silliest Marvel production: I mean, we’re supposed to laugh during ANT-MAN, but as much I enjoyed ANT-MAN none of the *intentionally* funny parts in it were anywhere near as funny as watch Cox’s Daredevil seethe and glower and clench his fists and grit his bloody teeth with all the turgid solemnity of an angst-ridden middle schooler determinedly etching Pantera lyrics into his Alegbra textbook while the soundtrack thunders and rages with funereal self-importance while up onscreen he’s… doing rhythmic Cirque Du Soliel kick-flips with a bunch of ninjas straight out of a Godfrey Ho movie against the backdrop of a cartoon anachronism of Hell’s Kitchen circa-1982.

    Intentional or note, that kind of mismatched tonal whiplash is right the hell up my alley. The great thing about the Marvel productions in general is that they afford so many different entertainment experiences: JESSICA JONES made me think, AGENTS OF S.H.I.E.L.D. is a nice mellow distraction, the AVENGERS movies are (at their best) inspiring and I fully expect CIVIL WAR to be a fucking emotional rollercoaster. DAREDEVIL, two seasons in, feels mostly like a weird, nasty, lurid footnote of a thing, but a generally well made one that occasionally (as in the case of The Punisher this season) manages genuine greatness. I really wish they hadn’t tried to force Elektra in this time around – or, rather,

    Having never listened to one of his reviews, i can't form a total judgement. I will say, however, that the above reads like someone i'd describe as "a real stick in the mud".
    Spends one sentence saying "no i had fun" and then 2 paragraphs word vomitting and trying to sound complex with his damning praise.
    ".....near as funny as watch Cox’s Daredevil seethe and glower and clench his fists and grit his bloody teeth with all the turgid solemnity of an angst-ridden middle schooler determinedly etching Pantera lyrics into his Alegbra textbook while the soundtrack thunders and rages with funereal self-importance"

    Eye.Fucking.Roll.

    Give me a break man. Its Daredevil. Its a comic book tv show. Just....this isn't The Wire man.

    Yeah. It's just comic book kids stuff. It's not real art and thus not worthy of real critique.


    Right?

    This thing here? We are not doing this thing. Because this thing is dumb.

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  • ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    The courtroom stuff in this series so far is great. We need more courtroom dramas that also have kung fu.

    Like, Law & Order but then after every case it turns into Fight Club.

    Law & Order & Punchies.

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  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    The courtroom stuff in this series so far is great. We need more courtroom dramas that also have kung fu.

    Like, Law & Order but then after every case it turns into Fight Club.

    Law & Order & Punchies.

    law.jpg

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  • HeatwaveHeatwave Come, now, and walk the path of explosions with me!Registered User regular
    So...
    I guess you can add Karen to the list of journalist love interests for superheroes

    Seriously though, I thought season 2 was pretty good.

    Random thoughts
    Matt meeting Fisk was tense as fuck! Fisk's line about researching him makes me think they'll adapt Born Again next season.

    New mask is way better than the old one.

    Grappling hook billy club!

    Matt is going to be OP as fuck now that be can properly fight ninjas.

    Foggy getting better employment with Hogarth is so well deserved. Speaking of, Hogarth's line about gifted clients has me so hyped for the inevitable Iron Fist introduction.

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  • KingofMadCowsKingofMadCows Registered User regular
    Things might get a little awkward when they bump into a certain detective.

    vs2c60.jpg

    ElJeffe
  • KrieghundKrieghund Registered User regular
    Thoughts on resolutions in season 2
    I like where the characters ended up. It sets up the rest of the Marvel/Netflix franchises perfectly. Foggy is the "vigilante lawyer" so any time they need a courtroom thing, there he is. They have Karen as the reporter that's going to be digging things up and doing deep backround shit. And since those two have history they can kinda help each other out on those things. And Matt can go play tag with the lowlifes and not have to worry about having to show up in court the next day. It's like being batman without having to be Bruce Wayne. Perfect! I'm not sold on them telling Karen about DDs identity. That was a bad move on Matts part. You just finished having to get every single person you've ever helped out of a jam and now you want to bring more people into that? Dumb. Also, I hope he tells Foggy what Fisk is getting ready to do with them or that is like dick move cubed. [/spoilers]

    Siernan
  • KingofMadCowsKingofMadCows Registered User regular
    Since Foggy
    will likely show up on Jessica Jones and maybe Luke Cage, it'll be funny if Fisk goes after him only to have Jessica or Luke get in the way.

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  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    Goddamn, this season's fights are brutal.









  • RT800RT800 Registered User regular
    I keep imagining a divided New York, with Daredevil patrolling one side and Punisher on the other.

    Except Daredevil's side is overflowing with criminals because Punisher killed everyone on his side and the rest fled to Daredevil's turf.

  • DrezDrez Registered User regular
    So I pretty much just marathon'd Season 1 (for the first time). I am up to the finale - was too tired and it was too late to watch the final episode last night.

    In all honesty, I find the show kind of boring. I love the concept, but I just find my mind wanders and I end up googling stuff or checking my phone rather than watching with rapt attention.

    Is Season 2 more of the same? I mean, if I found Season 1 boring, am I likely to feel the same way about Season 2?

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  • MichaelLCMichaelLC In what furnace was thy brain? ChicagoRegistered User regular
    edited March 2016
    Season 2 kicks it up with more kicking and more drama.

    S1 was setting up DD, Kingpin, and the whole world. Some would say S2 goes the other way and there's too much going on.

    So give it a try, I think you'll like it.

    MichaelLC on
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  • ThirithThirith Registered User regular
    Drez wrote: »
    So I pretty much just marathon'd Season 1 (for the first time). I am up to the finale - was too tired and it was too late to watch the final episode last night.

    In all honesty, I find the show kind of boring.
    This isn't specifically about Daredevil, and it might be entirely different for you, but I think I'd find myself getting bored more quickly with series if I binged on them.

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  • electricitylikesmeelectricitylikesme Registered User regular
    So me and Bulgarian girl just finished this up.

    Season 2 definitely goes places. And the Punisher is incredible.

  • jimb213jimb213 Registered User regular
    Whole season, mainly focusing on Elektra spoilers
    The show never convinced me of the importance of Elektra and The Hand and the Dark Sky. The entire time Matt was fooling around with them and not Frank/Foggy/Karen, I was thinking either "dude, you dropped that psycho once before, it was the right choice," or "I think this mystical junk can wait while your only two friends are dealing with some serious shit that directly involves Matt Murdock and Daredevil. Prioritize!"

    For me, I think they left a little too much mystery surrounding all the mystical stuff. With an unknown motive and unknown timeline and unknown goal, I just didn't care about what the Hand was up to while all the stuff surrounding Frank was happening, so I got frustrated with Matt every time he ignored his friends and the trial for his murderous ex and a mystery that isn't any closer to being solved.

    All in all, though, I really enjoyed Season 2.

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  • Mike DangerMike Danger "Diane..." a place both wonderful and strangeRegistered User regular
    Finished this last night, this might make me sound like a sick puppy buuuut
    this season needed 90% less mystical ninja BS with Stick and Elektra and 100% more Frank kicking dudes' butts

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  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    Matt having terrible priorities and getting too caught up in the mask is 100% true to the source material. He's an obsessive flake who consistently fails his friends and needs talked down from stupid crusades.

    We're reading Rifts. You should too. You know you want to. Now With Ninjas!

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  • ThawmusThawmus Registered User regular
    TexiKen wrote: »
    episode 6

    Elektra's still annoying as all get out. Plus the whole pretend to be having sex to get out of being caught seemed rather forced.

    The entire Frank/Karen/Foggy stuff was aces, especially the family stuff topped off with Frank being Frank and just going fuck you. Bernthal needs to be nominated for an Emmy.

    I just want to say more than anything I love Frank's theme. It has taken that terrible bwaaaaaaam from all the trailers always and made it more menacing like he's Pyramid Head or something. Best piece of music in the Netflix stuff by far.

    Having also just finished episode 6, I completely agree.
    I really hope Matt shows up for court. I'm going to be seriously pissed off and annoyed if he goes and fucks around with Elektra next episode instead of having a date with Karen and doing his fucking job. Oh who am I kidding, that's exactly what will happen.

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  • DrezDrez Registered User regular
    Thirith wrote: »
    Drez wrote: »
    So I pretty much just marathon'd Season 1 (for the first time). I am up to the finale - was too tired and it was too late to watch the final episode last night.

    In all honesty, I find the show kind of boring.
    This isn't specifically about Daredevil, and it might be entirely different for you, but I think I'd find myself getting bored more quickly with series if I binged on them.

    That's definitely not me, and it's not what caused me to be bored of DD. I was bored from the first episode but pushed through. I had glimmers of interest throughout but they were far between.

    I much prefer to binge a series than to watch it, well, serially. The sometimes massive delay between episodes causes me to lose interest in a show far more quickly than anything else.

    A couple of things that bug me:

    1) The Black Mask's acrobatics seem overly showy and not necessary or practical in some cases. Like some of his sideways double flips or whatever the fuck you call them, while he's free running across rooftops. WHY? WHY ARE YOU FUCKING DOING THIS?

    2) Karen Paige's actor's acting rubs me the wrong way. Foggy Bosom, too, a little bit. Karen is just perpetually weepy. Foggy sounds froggy.

    3) Is the Black Mask supposed to be the same person as Matt Murdoch? That seems implausible - he's blind!

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  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    I'm kind of bummed season 2 ended the way it did
    Daredevil also being a lawyer is such a big part of his character, it's weird that they would ditch it for what seems like so soon. I know comics tend to go hard on the melodrama anyway, but man, Matt definitely deserves a smack upside the head.

  • FakefauxFakefaux Cóiste Bodhar Driving John McCain to meet some Iraqis who'd very much like to make his acquaintanceRegistered User regular
    RT800 wrote: »
    I keep imagining a divided New York, with Daredevil patrolling one side and Punisher on the other.

    Except Daredevil's side is overflowing with criminals because Punisher killed everyone on his side and the rest fled to Daredevil's turf.

    I'd love to see somebody put together a map of MCU New York as drawn by a petty criminal, showing the borders of all the different gang and superhero territories. Something covered with little notes and annotations like "stay out of this area: ninjas" or "Devil territory: safe during day, avoid at night" or "Punisher active in this area: DO NOT ENTER".

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  • JeedanJeedan Registered User regular
    edited March 2016
    OptimusZed wrote: »
    Matt having terrible priorities and getting too caught up in the mask is 100% true to the source material. He's an obsessive flake who consistently fails his friends and needs talked down from stupid crusades.

    I thought this was one the better parts of the season to be honest.
    Its clear that Matt fuckin loves being Daredevil, and Foggy and Karens reactions are those of entirely sensible people. All the characters motivations on this show are pretty consistant.

    Benthals performance as the punisher was great, I love how after killing the military commander he looks almost on the verge of having second thoughts. He'd just got what he wanted and it wasnt anywhere near as satisfying as he hoped, then of course he finds the arsenal.

    Worst parts of the season:

    I feel like this show is exploiting the steaming format a little too much, in that I've heard that streaming show writers like that they're not under as much pressure to wrap things up neatly every episode like weekly show writers are, but this season had a lot of points where it felt like it was dragging, like it was a 11, 12 episode season stretched out to fill 13.

    The love scenes I found especially interminable, particularly Matt basically signing Elektras death warrant by having a drawn out, cliche ramble in the middle of a battle about how they'll totally move to paris after they complete this one last mission annnnnnnnd shes dead.

    Also, how can you tease the punisher finding a fucking minigun and then turn up at the final battle and snipe two guys?

    Jeedan on
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  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    edited March 2016


    I doubt that's actually gone.
    It's very unlikely that Matt starts next season slinging pizza or something. Just that he's going to be running a failing firm on his own or working for someone else for a bit. He and Foggy go through these breakups fairly regularly.

    OptimusZed on
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  • DasUberEdwardDasUberEdward Registered User regular
    Drez wrote: »
    Thirith wrote: »
    Drez wrote: »
    So I pretty much just marathon'd Season 1 (for the first time). I am up to the finale - was too tired and it was too late to watch the final episode last night.

    In all honesty, I find the show kind of boring.
    This isn't specifically about Daredevil, and it might be entirely different for you, but I think I'd find myself getting bored more quickly with series if I binged on them.

    That's definitely not me, and it's not what caused me to be bored of DD. I was bored from the first episode but pushed through. I had glimmers of interest throughout but they were far between.

    I much prefer to binge a series than to watch it, well, serially. The sometimes massive delay between episodes causes me to lose interest in a show far more quickly than anything else.

    A couple of things that bug me:

    1) The Black Mask's acrobatics seem overly showy and not necessary or practical in some cases. Like some of his sideways double flips or whatever the fuck you call them, while he's free running across rooftops. WHY? WHY ARE YOU FUCKING DOING THIS?

    2) Karen Paige's actor's acting rubs me the wrong way. Foggy Bosom, too, a little bit. Karen is just perpetually weepy. Foggy sounds froggy.

    3) Is the Black Mask supposed to be the same person as Matt Murdoch? That seems implausible - he's blind!

    1. Have you ever noticed how often people that can do back flips do back flips? That shit is fun to them.

    3. If someone asked you to bet on a fight that was a blind man versus two able bodied humans how often would you pick the blind man?

  • BobbleBobble Registered User regular
    (full spoilers)
    Yeah, Matt's gonna have to pay the bills somehow, unless Elektra listed him in her will (which I doubt, but that'd be amusing).

  • amateurhouramateurhour One day I'll be professionalhour The woods somewhere in TennesseeRegistered User regular
    Re Elektra/Finale/Unanswered questions
    I get a lot of people feeling the importance of Black Sky/Elektra wasn't fully established, but I think that's the point. We're seeing this from Matt's perspective where he learns the guy who trained him thinks he's the savior chosen one (as in Stick, NOT Matt, and believes Elektra is also a chosen one of doom, and so do a bunch of silly ass Ninjas with whom he is too busy trying to get a goddamn heartbeat to stop and think about.

    Like, he's going to reflect on all of this in a few weeks and not know what the fuck to think, but the show was trying to tell us "you're watching Matt and he's trying to figu- OH SHIT PUNCH PUNCH PUNCH PUNCH PUNCH.... whew, what was I saying?"

    I dig that. Like, of course he's worried about the hole, but it's (for the moment) just a big fucking hole. Right now he's concerned with the vigilante serial killer, his dead ex, his business in shambles, his mentor gone, his secret being revealed to his girlfriend, his actions as a vigilante almost getting dozens of people killed, and his old foe vowing revenge on both him in and out of the mask.

    He doesn't give a fuck about the hand or their goofball religion or that hole right now, and I respect that.


    Arch wrote: »

    I never expected this burn from captain bushmeat
    NeoTomaGnome-InterruptusMvrckCanadianWolverineTofystedethjdarksunEl Muchoshryke
  • Nova_CNova_C I have the need The need for speedRegistered User regular
    Series spoilers and my thoughts:
    Everything involving the Punisher was amazing. Like, straight up perfect storytelling. Which left me with a problem for a rather large part of the show - every time the show would switch to Elektra or what The Hand was up to, I started to check out. I'm not feeling the ancient immortal soldiers mysticism angle because Daredevil is normally a show that is very grounded in a single suburb of New York. Maybe the big hole in the building will be explained, maybe not, but an enemy of faceless ninjas trying to raise the dead just doesn't seem to fit.

    I would have much preferred if The Punisher was what the second season was about, but I say this without any knowledge of the comics. Maybe this thing with The Hand goes places and maybe it's integral to Daredevil's story, but considering it's probably going to be a couple years before we see season 3 I'm not particularly pleased with how it's been left.

    However, I loved everything else, and I do mean everything else. The courtroom scenes were excellent, the ongoing conflict between Matt and Foggy over Matt's priorities, the struggle with Matt trying and failing to maintain a life outside of his vigilante persona. And the cherry on top, for me, was once again Vincent D'Onofrio. Just like the first season's best scene (to me) was his speech in the back of the police van about the Samaritan, the second season's best scene was Matt trying and absolutely failing to interrogate Fisk.

    D'Onofrio's Kingpin still stands as the best villain in the MCU and I eagerly await anything they have him do in Season 3.

    JayrichoNeoTomaZombie GandhiEl Mucho
  • NinjeffNinjeff Registered User regular
    Favorite thing in late season 2
    Kingpin is absolutely terrifying. I love how this show will let the character "lull" for a short time. Even give you some things that make him sympathetic. Even likable! Hell, when he got to the prison i found myself accidently rooting for him to gain power. I let my guard down for a split second. Just enough to think, "yea Matt might have this, Kingpin will fold andOHMYGOD!" When he just rages out and starts freaking man handling Matt was terrifying. They did a really good job of conveying the rage and hopelessness of the situation. Dont piss off the Kingpin man. He will fucking own you.

    Gnome-Interruptusshryke
  • jimb213jimb213 Registered User regular
    Re Elektra/Finale/Unanswered questions

    I get a lot of people feeling the importance of Black Sky/Elektra wasn't fully established, but I think that's the point. We're seeing this from Matt's perspective where he learns the guy who trained him thinks he's the savior chosen one (as in Stick, NOT Matt, and believes Elektra is also a chosen one of doom, and so do a bunch of silly ass Ninjas with whom he is too busy trying to get a goddamn heartbeat to stop and think about.

    Like, he's going to reflect on all of this in a few weeks and not know what the fuck to think, but the show was trying to tell us "you're watching Matt and he's trying to figu- OH SHIT PUNCH PUNCH PUNCH PUNCH PUNCH.... whew, what was I saying?"

    I dig that. Like, of course he's worried about the hole, but it's (for the moment) just a big fucking hole. Right now he's concerned with the vigilante serial killer, his dead ex, his business in shambles, his mentor gone, his secret being revealed to his girlfriend, his actions as a vigilante almost getting dozens of people killed, and his old foe vowing revenge on both him in and out of the mask.

    He doesn't give a fuck about the hand or their goofball religion or that hole right now, and I respect that.

    And yet the show obviously does, and it did a poor job of convincing the viewer (at least this viewer), as to why we should care.

    Like, I'm thinking it's obvious that The Hand is basically the Thanos of the Netflix/Marvel Cinematic Neighborhood, but I feel like the screentime to mystery ratio is a little off. We've spent too much time with them to know so little. I don't need a detailed history and full exposition of their diabolical plan, but too many mysteries were opened with no resolution. The hole. Are they doing a ninja heart control thing, or are they reanimated corpses, or have their hearts been removed? Black Sky (is it actually a person, is it a force within the person, is it some kind of demon or alien posession, what can it do, what does The Hand want to do with it, is it really all that if one of the scrub ninjas can kill Elektra...)

    Ultimately I feel like this was two half seasons that they smashed together. A whole season focused on the Punisher would have been awesome, and a whole season to develop the Hand/Black Sky/Elektra stuff would probably be awesome.

    Spoiler tags are still kinda wonky for me (the first tag in a post works fine, but any subsequent tags are ellipses and won't open), so I rearranged and deleted some tags for other folks who might be having the same trouble. I'm responding to the post from @amateurhour above. Whole season spoilers.

  • PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    Krieghund wrote: »
    Thoughts on resolutions in season 2
    I like where the characters ended up. It sets up the rest of the Marvel/Netflix franchises perfectly. Foggy is the "vigilante lawyer" so any time they need a courtroom thing, there he is. They have Karen as the reporter that's going to be digging things up and doing deep backround shit. And since those two have history they can kinda help each other out on those things. And Matt can go play tag with the lowlifes and not have to worry about having to show up in court the next day. It's like being batman without having to be Bruce Wayne. Perfect! I'm not sold on them telling Karen about DDs identity. That was a bad move on Matts part. You just finished having to get every single person you've ever helped out of a jam and now you want to bring more people into that? Dumb. Also, I hope he tells Foggy what Fisk is getting ready to do with them or that is like dick move cubed. [/spoilers]
    Karen needs to know. All three need to be prepared, with all the shared knowledge they have, because Fisk has promised to come down upon them like a tsunami when he gets out.

    Nova_C
  • KingofMadCowsKingofMadCows Registered User regular
    Fakefaux wrote: »
    RT800 wrote: »
    I keep imagining a divided New York, with Daredevil patrolling one side and Punisher on the other.

    Except Daredevil's side is overflowing with criminals because Punisher killed everyone on his side and the rest fled to Daredevil's turf.

    I'd love to see somebody put together a map of MCU New York as drawn by a petty criminal, showing the borders of all the different gang and superhero territories. Something covered with little notes and annotations like "stay out of this area: ninjas" or "Devil territory: safe during day, avoid at night" or "Punisher active in this area: DO NOT ENTER".

    Daredevil: No Matt's Land

    Fakefaux
  • FakefauxFakefaux Cóiste Bodhar Driving John McCain to meet some Iraqis who'd very much like to make his acquaintanceRegistered User regular
    So, finished up the series today. I think I'm on the same page with a lot of other people that they didn't quite stick the landing. Full season spoilers:
    I liked Elektra in her early appearances as the wealthy thrillseeker who wanted to take things too far for Matt's tastes, but the Chaste stuff was lacking. None of the Chaste characters ever got any definition other than her and Stick. I don't much care for MovieBob's review, he did have a point that Elektra lacked agency. I also spent the whole season waiting for them to tie the Punisher and Hand plotlines together, and they never really did. The conspiracy about Frank should have died with the DA.

    I feel like the way to go would be to not have had Elektra not working for the Chaste at all. Stick still shows up to save them, but he'd got his "band" of guys like stone and Claw. They make some allusions to Elektra working with them in the past, but not any longer, and there's some distrust and animosity there, but they're willing to work with her and Matt to fight the Hand. End the Punisher's conspiracy arc with him breaking out of prison, omit the Blacksmith stuff. Then have the Hand do something dastardly in episode 10 or 11 that draws everyone's attention, and that bridges the Punisher/Hand plots. Frank goes after the "Yakuza," rapidly realizes he's in over his head, and has to work with DD and Elektra to take them down. Elektra vanishes after its all over, and we see her report back to Fisk, revealing she was working as an assassin for hire for him the whole time, and her real goal was taking the Hand down a peg so Kingpin wouldn't have to worry about them when he came back. That gives her some agency (she was working for another guy, true, but it was in her own chosen career) and would set up Bullseye killing her for next season, when he lays claim to her position in Fisk's organization.

    I get what they were trying to do with the Hand stuff. Keeping things mysterious last season enhanced the mysticism. But once it takes center stage you need a bit more. Instead of all this mystery stuff you don't plan on explaining, shows us some genuine Hand mystic shit but keep it low key. The ninja with autopsy scars was a great bit, more like that. Show us a ninja being shot and then he just gets back up and Punisher (or whoever) suddenly rethinks his approach. Have them set off a Black Sky and it causes a bunch of damage and gets the attention of more people including the Punisher and Fisk.

    There were a lot of good ideas, but they probably needed another month or two when writing this thing.

    KanaMatevSpoitFrankiedarling
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