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[Formula One & motorsport] Round 16, Russia: In Soviet Russia, V12 drives you!

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Posts

  • altidaltid Registered User regular
    Grosjean confirmed at Haas then:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/34395540
    Pretty clearly setting himself up for the Ferrari 2017 seat imo, which isn't a bad thing.

    Meanwhile RedBull better get their drivers working on leg strength - pushing a car around can't be easy after all! Latest rumours are that Merc still aren't interested, Ferrari would only offer them 2015 engines and Honda are just out of the question completely. A bad situation but one largely of their own making. Renault haven't been great but when all they were getting was negative PR even when winning world championships I can't blame them for not caring.

  • oldmankenoldmanken Registered User regular
    Didn't RedBull also approach VW and get rebuffed?

  • FoomyFoomy Registered User regular
    oldmanken wrote: »
    Didn't RedBull also approach VW and get rebuffed?

    They almost had a deal in place, but then all the VW engine emissions scandal stuff hit and VW lost a ton of money, so that deal is probably dead.

    Steam Profile: FoomyFooms
  • oldmankenoldmanken Registered User regular
    Foomy wrote: »
    oldmanken wrote: »
    Didn't RedBull also approach VW and get rebuffed?

    They almost had a deal in place, but then all the VW engine emissions scandal stuff hit and VW lost a ton of money, so that deal is probably dead.

    I assume going to Audi is a problem as well, since they are the same company as VW?

  • altidaltid Registered User regular
    I think the idea was an Audi branded car. Honestly though, at this stage I don't see how VW/Audi could have provided them with a competitive engine next year anyway. After all its not like Honda have been having a great time.

  • FoomyFoomy Registered User regular
    oldmanken wrote: »
    Foomy wrote: »
    oldmanken wrote: »
    Didn't RedBull also approach VW and get rebuffed?

    They almost had a deal in place, but then all the VW engine emissions scandal stuff hit and VW lost a ton of money, so that deal is probably dead.

    I assume going to Audi is a problem as well, since they are the same company as VW?

    yup same company, same engines.

    There are other companies out there that could make engines for F1, but convincing them to invest that huge sum of money is hard, and some of them already do so in other motor sports.

    GM,Toyota,Ford,BMW would probably be the list of companies big enough to do it, if they had the will to try.

    Steam Profile: FoomyFooms
  • KhavallKhavall British ColumbiaRegistered User regular
    altid wrote: »
    I think the idea was an Audi branded car. Honestly though, at this stage I don't see how VW/Audi could have provided them with a competitive engine next year anyway. After all its not like Honda have been having a great time.

    From what I understand the deal wasn't going for next year anyways. It was supposed to be a 2017 Engine, with them going to Ferrari for next year and giving VW time to develop the engine.

  • JazzJazz Registered User regular
    Khavall wrote: »
    altid wrote: »
    I think the idea was an Audi branded car. Honestly though, at this stage I don't see how VW/Audi could have provided them with a competitive engine next year anyway. After all its not like Honda have been having a great time.

    From what I understand the deal wasn't going for next year anyways. It was supposed to be a 2017 Engine, with them going to Ferrari for next year and giving VW time to develop the engine.

    I thought it was for 2018. Ferrari engines for '16 and '17, full-on Audi or VW works team with Red Bull sponsorship for '18 onwards.

    Methinks Red Bull have painted themselves into a corner trying to be a bit too Machiavellian. The sad part, more than losing four cars from the grid which is awful enough, would be losing those four wonderful drivers they currently have. Especially since decent or semi-decent seats for next year are very thin on the ground. That's why I'm hoping they can figure out sticking around, even if it looks less likely by the day...

  • KhavallKhavall British ColumbiaRegistered User regular
    edited October 2015
    So after all the speculation about Button going to Top Gear, or JB going to commentating, or JB dropping F1 entirely and going to WEC or something...

    Nope, Mclaren-Honda some more.



    EDIT: In other news, we all knew that it was coming: Manor Marussia going to Merc engines in 2016. Still no official word that Manor will be becoming a Mercedes feeder team(Toro Rosso style), but this is a little move in that direction.

    Khavall on
  • JazzJazz Registered User regular
    edited October 2015
    Finally, some good news out of F1. It'll be good to keep JB around, I just hope he gets machinery he can actually fight with next year - even if it's not for wins. That said, I think he could more or less stroll into a Top Gear or commentary gig if he felt like it. I wonder if he'll try and stick it out for the new regs in 2017 or if he'll call it a day before then. After all, the guy can still bring it.

    And I'm really, really glad Macca didn't carry on with that umming and aahing shit they did with JB last year.

    And Manor getting Merc engines will be interesting. On their own they won't be enough to leapfrog them up the pack but it might mean they can really take a fight to, say, the Saubers. And possibly Haas depending on what they come up with. It could liven up the back end of the grid a lot.

    Jazz on
  • DrovekDrovek Registered User regular
    On the race:
    Fairly straightforward, sadly. Still undecided on that first corner of chaos, specially with how Hamilton seemed to push Rosberg out of the track to take position.

    Also...
    GP2 Engine! GP2 Engine!
    :lol::cry:

    Sad for Red Bull (and specially Danny), but really? What else they expected to happen after acting like spoiled children?

    steam_sig.png( < . . .
  • JazzJazz Registered User regular
    JB's making excited noises about the 2017 cars. Sounds like he's going to try and stick around for them.

    Top man. :+1:

  • JazzJazz Registered User regular
    Blimey. :eek:

  • JazzJazz Registered User regular
    Hamilton "may design circuits in the future"

    That actually sounds like an interesting idea. A track designed from a top driver's perspective could be cool. As much as I'd like to see a few of the newer Tilkedromes dropped and classic circuits brought back properly (not butchered like Mexico), I know that's a pipedream. So the next best thing would be a new perspective on circuit design. Tilke's made a handful of great ones, yes, but his hit/miss ratio isn't good.

    Alonso to stay at McLaren through 2017

    It's his last chance saloon and he knows it. The possibility of a Merc seat has evaporated, Red Bull are in crisis and he's burned his bridges at Ferrari*. McLaren's his only hope. At least he knows McLaren and Honda aren't going to rest on their laurels if they can help it and they'll do all they can to drag themselves back to the pointy end of the grid.

    * - Mind you, he did that quite comprehensively at McLaren in 2007. But he probably hasn't got another eight years to smooth it over (or paper over the cracks) this time.

  • jimb213jimb213 Registered User regular
    oldmanken wrote: »
    jimb213 wrote: »
    My tickets for the USGP arrived via FedEx today.

    It's always my favorite weekend in Austin every year. I can't wait!

    I'm still trying to decide if I want to go or not. GA tickets are much cheaper than last year, but it can be a damn expensive day.

    Yeah, $10 for a good beer ($9 for a mediocre beer, but at least it's a tallboy), $14 for two small tacos, super expensive souvenirs/merch... it definitely adds up.

    But hey, this year it comes with a free Elton John concert!

    (I actually think it could be really cool if he does a lot of his 70's tunes rather than his Disney tunes)

  • VeeveeVeevee WisconsinRegistered User regular
    jimb213 wrote: »
    oldmanken wrote: »
    jimb213 wrote: »
    My tickets for the USGP arrived via FedEx today.

    It's always my favorite weekend in Austin every year. I can't wait!

    I'm still trying to decide if I want to go or not. GA tickets are much cheaper than last year, but it can be a damn expensive day.

    Yeah, $10 for a good beer ($9 for a mediocre beer, but at least it's a tallboy), $14 for two small tacos, super expensive souvenirs/merch... it definitely adds up.

    But hey, this year it comes with a free Elton John concert!

    (I actually think it could be really cool if he does a lot of his 70's tunes rather than his Disney tunes)

    Or did you get a free race while paying for an Elton John concert?

  • JazzJazz Registered User regular
    Scuttlebutt has it that Ferrari have told Red Bull "nope" to engines. Although they might be open to supplying just Toro Rosso (which of course they have done in the past). WTF1's reporting this from Germany's Auto Motor und Sport.

    So with Mercedes, Ferrari and Honda turning them down, it appears Red Bull's only options are to go crawling back to Renault or to pull out entirely, at least for next year.

    You know, this makes me miss the days when there were a zillion engine manufacturers in F1. They might not have all been great, but at least there were more than four (realistically, two) options. But I think the hybrid formula has killed that concept stone dead.

  • JazzJazz Registered User regular
    Now, naturally, Bernie's involved in the Red Bull thing. I can't quite remember a situation like this ever before, I must say.

  • altidaltid Registered User regular
    I'm conflicted over Red Bull. Naturally I don't want to see them leave, and to have them remain as viable competition - but I can't help but smirk at how they've brought this almost entirely upon themselves. They've never really been a gracious team and all their complaining comes across as being unable to accept any fault whatsoever. It was never their fault that they lost a race, but it was the engine/tyres/regulations. When you publicly trash partners for so long, is it any wonder nobody else wants to leap in their place?

    All that's just the impression I get at the moment. It isn't backed by any facts or statements.

    I'd heard Bernie was heavily pressuring Merc to buckle and give RB engines, but I can't see them giving in. If Merc didn't outright own and run a team maybe but as it stands nobody is in a position to give works level support to Red Bull.

  • FoomyFoomy Registered User regular
    With how hard the hybrid systems are to get right, F1 really needs to adjust rules for new engine manufacturers. Give em triple tokens for 2 seasons or something, so that they can actually iterate and fix problems.

    Or even better, base engine tokens on how well your cars do in each race, finish top 5 and you get nothing, lower you go the more changes you are allowed to make.

    Steam Profile: FoomyFooms
  • Nova_CNova_C I have the need The need for speedRegistered User regular
    This is quite a time to get into the sport.

    I mean, I'm hoping McLaren and Honda can figure out what the hell and I can't express how glad I am that Button and Alonso are staying with McLaren (Lack of other opportunities or no), but this whole Red Bull v Renault thing is amazing to watch.

    Because the first thing I really noticed about Red Bull is how much they complain about their engines.

    Why would Mercedes or Ferrari want to step into that line of fire?

  • JazzJazz Registered User regular
    altid wrote: »
    I'm conflicted over Red Bull. Naturally I don't want to see them leave, and to have them remain as viable competition - but I can't help but smirk at how they've brought this almost entirely upon themselves. They've never really been a gracious team and all their complaining comes across as being unable to accept any fault whatsoever. It was never their fault that they lost a race, but it was the engine/tyres/regulations. When you publicly trash partners for so long, is it any wonder nobody else wants to leap in their place?

    Absolutely agreed, no question. I liked what they did when they were up-and-coming as far as openness to fans and suchlike, I can see how they became a popular team doing things like that, which stood them in good stead when they became a genuine power in F1. I've liked most of their drivers, too; admittedly I only really warmed properly to Vettel more recently, especially this year, but I was a big fan of Webber and Coulthard in their day and am presently one of both Ricciardo and Kvyat, and obviously there's the Toro Rosso drivers too, I liked Vergne a lot and like both Verstappen and Sainz. But Red Bull's senior figures have had that attitude exactly as you describe towards so many of their partners and the sport in general and I think it's finally dawning on them that after years of bullying and sneering and arguably borderline cheating and never copping to anything ever, that suddenly when the chips are down, they have very few friends in the paddock, if any. Far more so Red Bull, the team (read: Horner, Marko) and brand (read: Mateschitz) than Toro Rosso the team, who generally manage to stay out of it and I think that might be a factor in Ferrari maybe being able to offer TR engines, although they seem to be distancing themselves from that now too.

    No-one, since Renault is buying up Lotus and VW/Audi appears to have gone up in a puff of diesel emission smoke, is going to offer Red Bull works level support now. I think they've accepted that. (I doubt Renault would've bought Lotus had their relationship with Red Bull not broken down, since RB were more or less a works team in all but name, so perhaps in a roundabout way this whole mess actually saved the Enstone team.) And with Ferrari saying they couldn't logistically create that supply this late in the day, regardless of any competitive fears, I tend to believe them. I kind of have to, because...

    Maybe the engine manufacturers who have competitive works teams - Mercedes and Ferrari - wouldn't want to supply a team that could possibly consistently beat them. I understand that too. But that's a problem with the complex hybrid formula; now you can't just get an off-the-shelf Cosworth V8 or something from, I dunno, Judd, or Peugeot, or Lamborghini, or countless others, as in the past. The sport has structured itself this way at the behest of these manufacturers - including Renault too - who insisted on the hybrids because of road car applications, or they'd walk away. So yes, they are going to have to supply customer engines to other teams, and in my opinion, no, that shouldn't mean they can say in not so many words "only if you can't beat us". Other reasons are fine, logistics and manufacture/supply lines are a thing.

    It's such a bloody mess. And no-one seems blameless in it. But Red Bull do seem by far the most at fault for the situation they find themselves in. I feel like I've contradicted myself once or twice in this post but that's a reflection on this.

    Ultimately, I just hope we don't lose Ricciardo, Kvyat, Verstappen and Sainz. That's my biggest concern.

    Nova_C wrote: »
    This is quite a time to get into the sport.

    It certainly is! Glad to have you, though :)

  • WeedLordVegetaWeedLordVegeta Registered User regular
    so I don't think this falls under the normal spoilers

    Carlos Sainz had to be ambulanced out of p3 after losing control of his car at such speeds that it went UNDER the barriers into a wall

    he was communicating with the medical staff and gave a thumbs up on the way out

    the remainder of p3 is at least delayed if not outright cancelled

  • JazzJazz Registered User regular
    edited October 2015
    Sainz is okay and was tweeting from hospital:



    Very nasty crash, though. So glad he's alright.

    Thankfully qualifying passed without further nasty incidents.

    Tomorrow's grid:
    ip9avmklguhu.jpg

    Alonso's rocking a 35-place grid penalty for engine change stuff, but was still a surprising half-second down on Button.

    Massa blamed traffic and subsequent tyre problems for his shocker.

    Great day for Bottas (who of course did so well last year here) and the Force Indias; very solid from Grosjean; poor day for the Bulls but as it's a power circuit they were always going to struggle. I wonder if that Toro Rosso is slippier in a straight line, good job from Verstappen.

    Sainz's provisional place assumes he takes the start, but it seems unlikely at present as he'll probably be under observation in the hospital.

    Hamilton seemed in his own little world after Q3; clearly not wanting to be near Rosberg, and instead was seen very conspicuously checking out Vettel's Ferrari rather closely in parc fermé.

    Jazz on
  • JazzJazz Registered User regular
    Sainz out of hospital, wants to race. True racer. It always reminds me of Brundle's crash in Australia, '98 was it? Horrendous, massive cartwheeling accident into Turn 3 in the Jordan. Race was red flagged and Brundle got out of the car, thankfully fine, and ran all the way back to the pits to get in the spare car (when there was such a thing) for the restart.

  • JazzJazz Registered User regular
  • honoverehonovere Registered User regular
    race:
    God damnit, Kimi. Poor Bottas.

  • JazzJazz Registered User regular
    Some great racing in the midfield today. Nice to see the track can give us a really good race. Hopefully last year was an outlier, no track delivers a classic 100% of the time and it's easy to write off a track if the inaugural event is a snooze.

    Putin once again not only showing up but greeting the top three after the race and handing out the winners' trophies kind of shows up so many other heads of state, in a way. It signifies how important this event is to him and Russia, I think.
    As I saw on Facebook: Kimi went full Maldonado. You never go full Maldonado. Although it gave me a chuckle seeing Kimi do the last two-thirds of a lap with broken suspension and the car sparking up a storm.

    I agree, poor Bottas. After such a great drive he deserved that podium. Although, so did Perez, really. So at least one of them got it. Was overjoyed for Force India as a whole, honestly.

    Sainz also deserved better after yesterday's events and climbing to seventh today.

    Glad Grosjean was more or less okay after that huge shunt at turn 3. That was another one that could've been very nasty.

    Pretty great race, many stories to tell on that final results board.

    Loved the hats for the podium, too. Spot on. Can't remember if they had those last year!

  • KhavallKhavall British ColumbiaRegistered User regular
    Hilariously..
    Maldonado finished in points! And didn't crash! Not even a little! Multiple crashes in the race, a Lotus crashed, and Maldonator's there finishing that race without crashing.

    I was real happy to see Perez get a podium, but man what a way to do it.

    Also, holy motherfucking shit Ferrari is good at pit stops. 2.2 seconds each time.

  • JazzJazz Registered User regular
    edited October 2015
    Kimi got himself a nice 30-second penalty, demoting him to 8th. Thus Mercedes clinched the constructor's championship.

    With Rosberg's retirement and Vettel's vaulting him in the driver's championship standings, if Hamilton outscores Rosberg by two points and Vettel by nine points in Austin, he's driver's champ with three races still to go.

    Although the stage is set for a whopping great tussle for that second place now, if the Ferrari can hang with the Merc.

    Jazz on
  • Nova_CNova_C I have the need The need for speedRegistered User regular
    My friends and I made a drinking game for the race because 1) We expected it to be a little less exciting than most Grand Prix races and 2) It's Thanksgiving in Canadaland.

    That first lap was nuts. After one lap I was already down two shots and a bottle and a half of Strongbow. So many drinks triggered from all those shenanigans.
    And I felt so bad for Bottas. That crash was 100% on Kimi. He must have been fuming.

  • JazzJazz Registered User regular
    Nova_C wrote: »
    My friends and I made a drinking game for the race because 1) We expected it to be a little less exciting than most Grand Prix races and 2) It's Thanksgiving in Canadaland.

    That first lap was nuts. After one lap I was already down two shots and a bottle and a half of Strongbow. So many drinks triggered from all those shenanigans.
    And I felt so bad for Bottas. That crash was 100% on Kimi. He must have been fuming.

    You can't say that and not tell us the rules of your drinking game. :)

  • Nova_CNova_C I have the need The need for speedRegistered User regular
    edited October 2015
    Uh, I don't remember all of them, but here's some quick examples:

    Damage - take a drink
    Flat tire - take a drink
    >3 second pit - take a drink
    Yellow flag - take a drink
    Marshal on track - take a drink

    So, yeah, those all triggered right away. >.> I can't remember which ones were the shots, but yeah.
    I finished the night with a couple shots as well, but they were as much celebratory - one of the take a shot entries was McLaren driver scores points. I wasn't anticipating it, but Button and Alonso both got points. :P

    EDIT: Right, Safety Car is a shot. That's one of them.

    Nova_C on
  • evilbobevilbob RADELAIDERegistered User regular
    how much for maldonado crashing?

    l5sruu1fyatf.jpg

  • VeeveeVeevee WisconsinRegistered User regular
    evilbob wrote: »
    how much for maldonado crashing?

    Nothing.

    Now, if he doesn't crash that's the whole bottle.

  • Nova_CNova_C I have the need The need for speedRegistered User regular
    Maldonado crashing was a shot.

    He disappointed. :(

  • JazzJazz Registered User regular
    Adrian Newey says Red Bull can't get an engine because the other teams are afraid of them.

    As staggeringly egotistical as it sounds on the face of it, he's probably not entirely wrong. Red Bull's actual cars are still pretty good; perhaps not the class of the field by a big margin as they were when he was heading up the designs, but still.

  • DrovekDrovek Registered User regular
    Any of you guys caught this?

    Let's see what comes out of it (or if maybe selling F1 is basically their answer :lol: ) but it's really something that should be addressed. I know old teams have their pull in terms of merchandise and the like, but to outright skew payments that mean life or death in here which is expensive as hell to begin with?

    I like also how Bernie said in an interview that he didn't understand the need to do that through the EU, and that it should be resolved from within. Yeah Bernie, like it was resolved last year when they were threatening not to race because of this same issue.

    steam_sig.png( < . . .
  • tinwhiskerstinwhiskers Registered User regular
    Drovek wrote: »
    Any of you guys caught this?

    Let's see what comes out of it (or if maybe selling F1 is basically their answer :lol: ) but it's really something that should be addressed. I know old teams have their pull in terms of merchandise and the like, but to outright skew payments that mean life or death in here which is expensive as hell to begin with?

    I like also how Bernie said in an interview that he didn't understand the need to do that through the EU, and that it should be resolved from within. Yeah Bernie, like it was resolved last year when they were threatening not to race because of this same issue.

    IDK EU 'anticompetative' laws are weird(and imo basically serve as a way for them to hammer nonEU companies for doing too well in their markets), but its a private racing league. If you don't want to be in F1, don't be problem solved. The merch and name recognition really are what drive this. Ferrari as a racing brand is worth infinitely more than Force India or Sauber is.

    6ylyzxlir2dz.png
This discussion has been closed.