GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
edited April 2017
Not a terrible Chinese GP
There was some good racing, but the final battle between Riciardo and Verstappen shows how much the nose of the cars wash away when you're chasing. On the other side of that coin Vettel showed if you're brave and willing to be creative, you can still make some nice overtakes.
Hamilton ran away with this one, which shouldn't surprise anyone, he's a master of this track and he's still in the fastest car even if that margin is down a lot this year. If it gets clean air the Merc can still walk away from people.
Kind of a funny moment late. They aired some Botas radio and the Mercedes race engineer slipped up and called him Nico before quickly correcting to Valterri.
I suspect it would have been much closer but for the safety car, but that's F1 for you. Kinda surprised Vettel didn't get a penalty for being half out of his grid box though.
Mercs seem to get slightly better starts than Ferrari this year. I also thought that Vettel's start held up Kimi enough that he had to back off before the first corner.
Kimi had another poor race unfortunately, but was complaining of engine issues and was left on old tyres for longer than most. Vettel had a great race though. He pulled off some pretty damned impressive overtakes and seemed to be loving it at the end.
Good show from Red Bull, especially "this guy". A bit of good fortune with wet conditions and SC's etc, but they capitalized on it perfectly.
Hamilton had a pretty much perfect race, albeit a boring one. Not much more to it than that. In contrast Bottas had a race to forget. While the pitstop stacking didn't help him, the spin under the SC killed off any chance he had of a podium finish.
Alonso, as always, drove his socks off before the car gave up.
I thoroughly enjoyed Seb, following closely, looking for different lines around corners to keep some front downforce on his car - and it worked, he was often able to stay surprisingly close through corners, even taking Kimi's woes into account. But then, I suppose, turns 1-3 here kind of lend themselves to that more than most.
Interesting how Red Bull's fortunes shifted - Max was clearly quicker when it was greasy, but towards the end as it was properly drying out, Danny Ric was the quicker of the two. That could be a really good intra-team scrap this year.
Not a race characterised by a billion overtakes, but there were still some great ones - all in all, just a thoroughly entertaining race that always had at least one cracking battle going on.
That "Nico... er, Valtteri" moment was so hilariously embarrassing, too. I can just imagine Valtteri being all :eek:
Race two and Haas scored some points! Though this new schedule at work is probably going to seriously curtail my F1 watching ability. No more sundays off, boo.
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Nova_CI have the needThe need for speedRegistered Userregular
Entertaining race, even though I had the end spoiled for me (I can't watch until I get home from work Sunday evening). Verstappen did really well and was arguably the most exciting driver out there, with Vettel being the one for that 'arguably'. I am thoroughly enjoying watching Vettel race this year, even with my hate boner for Ferrari.
I'm still crossing my fingers that Lance Stroll does well. Getting clipped on the first lap super sucks, but it happens and his quali seems to indicate that he might do well as he matures into the F1 cockpit.
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GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
I think Stroll will be alright. He qualified P10 so he has pace. He got clipped, yes, but he also could have avoided it by not turning in so hard and I think that's a lesson he'll take away. First lap of a race, assume someone is probably going to try and snipe your apex if you're that wide and don't turn down.
Alonso skipping Monaco can't be good for McLaren. Having your star driver miss the prestige event and the only one where your crap engine might not absolutely cripple you is not a good look.
If I were to speculate I'd say that it points to a deteriorating relationship between Alonso and McLaren. The only way I'd see them agreeing to this is if Alonso was threatening to walk.
It might also be McLaren showing Alonso some good will or generosity for making him drive crap cars for three years in hopes that he might sign with the team again next year.
If anyone watches MotoGP it has already been awesome and amazing this year. If you want close racing, thats the sport to watch.
Also, its the place where Honda really knows their stuff.
Alonso has now set his sights on the Triple Crown - winning the Monaco Grand Prix (which he's won twice), the Indy 500 and the Le Mans 24 Hours. Only Graham Hill has won all three so far - and frankly at the moment it looks more realistic than gunning for that elusive third F1 championship.
GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
edited April 2017
I think he can do it if he wants. It would be easy for him to get on a top Le Mans team if he's willing to put his F1 career on hold (or retire from it completely). The Indy 500 is probably going to be the hardest of the three for him, as it's a different discipline and like restrictor plate racing in NASCAR it's a complete crap shoot.
GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
So the more I read about this, the more I realize that this is absolutely McLaren and Honda trying to make good by Alonso. They know they've squandered three years of his F1 career with their Honda F1 engine experiment. Honda knows it's competitive in Indy and has a team in Andretti Autosport that is a proven winner. If they can help him win part of the triple crown it's a huge goodwill gesture by them.
I can't remember the last time good will was a part of F1 I'm afraid. When it comes down to it, they're allowing their star driver to not turn up for a hugely important race where they have a decent chance of scoring points. Instead he's going off to race in indy which is a high risk activity - can you imagine if Alonso got injured in the process? Hopefully that won't happen of course but the odds aren't insignificant.
It may be good will to let him drive indy but I doubt it was entirely without some form of pushing from Alonso.
"I would like to go drive an IndyCar. It's more powerful engine should be a nice pick-me-up from the usual McLaren F1 experience."
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GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
edited April 2017
Of course Alonso pushed for it, why wouldn't he? He's looking at his career past F1 at this point, since McLaren has basically squandered his talent and he's getting to the age where no front of the grid team is going to want to give him a long term deal instead of training up a young driver.
McLaren is doing everything they can to a) get him to sign next year, and b) not be seen as the team that ruined Fernando Alonso's late career.
I have no doubt in my mind that Alonso could beat Hamilton to the championship in equal cars, so it's been a real bummer watching him in the butt of every race.
I would love to see him on Toyota's LMP1-H team, maybe the other Japanese auto manufacturer won't waste his time, hah.
GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
edited April 2017
I think that would only happen if Hamilton bolted for a new team next year, and who's he going to bolt for? Ferrari and have to fight another multi-world champion every year? Red Bull where he's the aging thoroughbred against the young stud and gets Marc Webbered?
Hamilton will be at Merc next year, which means Alonso probably won't. Plus I don't think Botas is going to flub this season so bad he doesn't get a second year in that seat (unless some black magic voodoo happens and Verstappen comes free or something). As much as I yearn to see Alonso in a competitive car before he retires I just don't see where it happens. Ferrari isn't going to be keen to upset Vettel and bring him in there (and Vettel isn't going anywhere now that Ferrari is on the up and up: He wants seven titles and he wants the last three to be in red). Red Bull isn't going to be in a rush to get rid of Ricciardo either. He's a great driver who gives them chances for race wins while Max gains experience. Short of another surprise retirement or a serious drop in form by Ricciardo, I don't see what top team has a seat for Alonso next season.
On one hand, getting in the second Merc means an easy championship.
On the other hand, would a professional that truly respects themselves and their profession really want to get that easy championship?
From the outside looking in I think it's easy to say you'd take less money, a lot less money even, to get into the second Merc. I think the real spot drivers are eyeing are either Ferrari or Red Bull, and to be the one to dethrone the kings. Especially now that they're so close to being competitive again.
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GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
edited April 2017
I don't think Alonso cares about proving some kind of point at this stage in his career. I think he wants another title, and if the Merc seat were open he'd take it. In 25 years no one will care how he won the title. No one cares that Vettel won his at a dominant Red Bull, that Michael won his at a dominant Ferrari or that Prost and Senna won (most of) theirs at a dominant McLaren. No one will care that Lewis one two of his three (and counting) at a dominant Mercedes.
I wonder if Alonso had any idea how bad the McLaren would be. As unlucky as his situation is does any of the onus fall on Alonso for accepting a $40 million per year salary when he's there to win races and championships. I don't want to say here only there for the money (even if he basically is just because of the length of his contract), but because I'd like to think he believed McLaren and Honda, based on their previous history, would be a winning combination.
GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
I don't think he ever thought they would be this bad, no. If he had, he could have easily gotten a seat at a mid-pack runner and done better than he is at McLaren. I'm sure he expected year one, maybe year two, to be rough, but this rough? No way.
Didn't get to see much of quali, but good job by Bottas. Nice to see him able to compete. Would have liked to see what Hamilton could have done if he hadn't messed up the lap but, well, he messed up the lap. Would have been very close either way.
While Bottas takes most of the headlines, credit to a very solid performance by Renault. Both in Q3 and Hulkenberg in P7. They hadn't been doing great recently but this is hopefully a good sign for them.
On the flip side, what happened to Force India? P14 and P18 isn't where I figured they'd be.
Awesome job by Renault. Awesome to see Hulk in 7th and Palmer did a sterling job getting into Q3.
Bottas did it when it mattered. Hats off to him, I'm sure it won't be his last pole. Trivia: the last Finn to take a pole was Kovalainen in 2008, the race after Raikkonen got his last pole.
Apparently Alonso's MGU-H broke and destroyed the ICE with it. There really aren't the words (although he was spotted flinging several words in Honda's direction). Speaking of Alonso, confirmation that Button will be filling in for him - as expected - at Monaco. Be careful with that double-edged sword, Jenson...
So far it's been a good race. Though shame on NBC to have infomercials going instead of the race. A question for the non Americans. Univision hasn't had a single commercial for 25 laps. Is that normal? Cuz we get them like every five laps or so.
Scrappy race from Hamilton. His poor start ultimately led to a chain of events that cost him the chance at victory but his pace was good. Bottas on the other hand had another poor race. Having to let your teammate by twice isn't good, especially when he's had a 5 second penalty. Worse still he finished ~14 seconds down on Hamilton and under pressure from Raikkonen. I may sound a bit harsh on Bottas but given how close Ferrari are this season they may have to prioritize Hamilton sooner rather than later. He's a bit fortunate that the second Ferrari is in no mans land so far this season.
McLaren of course continue their utterly dire season. Having Alonso clearly fed up on the radio, being passed easily on any straight and breaking down before the end of the race is bad enough, but not even being able to start both cars is a new low. The aero team at Woking must be horribly depressed - some of their best work and it's stuck at the back because the engine is rubbish. I think Vandoorne is on his fourth engine already as well? The relationship has to be at breaking point.
Bahrain really has become a venue practically guaranteed to give us a good race since they switched to the night (well, evening) schedule. Probably due to the lower temperatures as much as anything.
That was a good one, with strategy and on-track action both playing their parts.
A pity the next race (Sochi) is probably one of the dullest tracks on the calendar. Much too wide, no interesting scenery, generally doesn't provide much of a race.
Heard rumours that Alonso's car wasn't actually broken, that he simply retired it to cause a scene. From the sound of it the relation between Honda and Alonso has completely broken down, and I'm not sure where the McLaren-Alonso relation stands either. While Honda are an embarrassment and it's undeniably a frustrating situation, I do wonder if even then Alonso has pushed it a bit far. I would not be surprised to see him in a Renault next year.
- that was a dick move by Hamilton to block Ricciardo at pit.
- Bottas had a decent pace IMO, again Hamilton did a dick move to pass him on a dangerous spot. Bottas was going to let him anyways, he could've waited until they got around the corner.
- Alonso apparently told Honda coordinator to "do whatever you want, I don't care" when asked his opinion about tires... sad end for Honda-Alonso.
i live in a country with a batshit crazy president and no, english is not my first language
Yeah, that one was on Bottas and it was pretty weird. Letting Hamilton by on the subsequent straight on the run down to turn 14 would've made more sense, especially at their closing speed - he had the time if he didn't back out of it where he did.
That was a dick move by Hamilton backing Ricciardo up and frankly deserved the penalty. Hamilton's subsequent comments made me wonder if he misunderstood what the penalty was applied for. Ricciardo, for his part, was very reasonable about it afterwards, pointing out that you can actually do that on the actual track but not in the pitlane, and ultimately it didn't cost him anything anyway.
Alonso definitely said words to the effect of "do whatever you want, I don't care" (I don't have the exact quote to hand but it was broadcast from team radio). He also asked twice about how a car could be 300m behind him yet still pass him in the next corner. He is not a happy bunny. He stayed diplomatic in interviews, though. For now.
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Hamilton ran away with this one, which shouldn't surprise anyone, he's a master of this track and he's still in the fastest car even if that margin is down a lot this year. If it gets clean air the Merc can still walk away from people.
Kind of a funny moment late. They aired some Botas radio and the Mercedes race engineer slipped up and called him Nico before quickly correcting to Valterri.
Mercs seem to get slightly better starts than Ferrari this year. I also thought that Vettel's start held up Kimi enough that he had to back off before the first corner.
Kimi had another poor race unfortunately, but was complaining of engine issues and was left on old tyres for longer than most. Vettel had a great race though. He pulled off some pretty damned impressive overtakes and seemed to be loving it at the end.
Good show from Red Bull, especially "this guy". A bit of good fortune with wet conditions and SC's etc, but they capitalized on it perfectly.
Hamilton had a pretty much perfect race, albeit a boring one. Not much more to it than that. In contrast Bottas had a race to forget. While the pitstop stacking didn't help him, the spin under the SC killed off any chance he had of a podium finish.
Alonso, as always, drove his socks off before the car gave up.
Interesting how Red Bull's fortunes shifted - Max was clearly quicker when it was greasy, but towards the end as it was properly drying out, Danny Ric was the quicker of the two. That could be a really good intra-team scrap this year.
Not a race characterised by a billion overtakes, but there were still some great ones - all in all, just a thoroughly entertaining race that always had at least one cracking battle going on.
That "Nico... er, Valtteri" moment was so hilariously embarrassing, too. I can just imagine Valtteri being all :eek:
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I'm still crossing my fingers that Lance Stroll does well. Getting clipped on the first lap super sucks, but it happens and his quali seems to indicate that he might do well as he matures into the F1 cockpit.
McLaren don't know who's going to take his seat but fingers crossed for Jenson, it'd be a nice weekend activity for him.
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If I were to speculate I'd say that it points to a deteriorating relationship between Alonso and McLaren. The only way I'd see them agreeing to this is if Alonso was threatening to walk.
Also, its the place where Honda really knows their stuff.
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It may be good will to let him drive indy but I doubt it was entirely without some form of pushing from Alonso.
McLaren is doing everything they can to a) get him to sign next year, and b) not be seen as the team that ruined Fernando Alonso's late career.
I would love to see him on Toyota's LMP1-H team, maybe the other Japanese auto manufacturer won't waste his time, hah.
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Hamilton will be at Merc next year, which means Alonso probably won't. Plus I don't think Botas is going to flub this season so bad he doesn't get a second year in that seat (unless some black magic voodoo happens and Verstappen comes free or something). As much as I yearn to see Alonso in a competitive car before he retires I just don't see where it happens. Ferrari isn't going to be keen to upset Vettel and bring him in there (and Vettel isn't going anywhere now that Ferrari is on the up and up: He wants seven titles and he wants the last three to be in red). Red Bull isn't going to be in a rush to get rid of Ricciardo either. He's a great driver who gives them chances for race wins while Max gains experience. Short of another surprise retirement or a serious drop in form by Ricciardo, I don't see what top team has a seat for Alonso next season.
On the other hand, would a professional that truly respects themselves and their profession really want to get that easy championship?
From the outside looking in I think it's easy to say you'd take less money, a lot less money even, to get into the second Merc. I think the real spot drivers are eyeing are either Ferrari or Red Bull, and to be the one to dethrone the kings. Especially now that they're so close to being competitive again.
While Bottas takes most of the headlines, credit to a very solid performance by Renault. Both in Q3 and Hulkenberg in P7. They hadn't been doing great recently but this is hopefully a good sign for them.
On the flip side, what happened to Force India? P14 and P18 isn't where I figured they'd be.
Bottas did it when it mattered. Hats off to him, I'm sure it won't be his last pole. Trivia: the last Finn to take a pole was Kovalainen in 2008, the race after Raikkonen got his last pole.
Apparently Alonso's MGU-H broke and destroyed the ICE with it. There really aren't the words (although he was spotted flinging several words in Honda's direction). Speaking of Alonso, confirmation that Button will be filling in for him - as expected - at Monaco. Be careful with that double-edged sword, Jenson...
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Some thoughts on the race:
McLaren of course continue their utterly dire season. Having Alonso clearly fed up on the radio, being passed easily on any straight and breaking down before the end of the race is bad enough, but not even being able to start both cars is a new low. The aero team at Woking must be horribly depressed - some of their best work and it's stuck at the back because the engine is rubbish. I think Vandoorne is on his fourth engine already as well? The relationship has to be at breaking point.
That was a good one, with strategy and on-track action both playing their parts.
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Heard rumours that Alonso's car wasn't actually broken, that he simply retired it to cause a scene. From the sound of it the relation between Honda and Alonso has completely broken down, and I'm not sure where the McLaren-Alonso relation stands either. While Honda are an embarrassment and it's undeniably a frustrating situation, I do wonder if even then Alonso has pushed it a bit far. I would not be surprised to see him in a Renault next year.
- that was a dick move by Hamilton to block Ricciardo at pit.
- Bottas had a decent pace IMO, again Hamilton did a dick move to pass him on a dangerous spot. Bottas was going to let him anyways, he could've waited until they got around the corner.
- Alonso apparently told Honda coordinator to "do whatever you want, I don't care" when asked his opinion about tires... sad end for Honda-Alonso.
That was a dick move by Hamilton backing Ricciardo up and frankly deserved the penalty. Hamilton's subsequent comments made me wonder if he misunderstood what the penalty was applied for. Ricciardo, for his part, was very reasonable about it afterwards, pointing out that you can actually do that on the actual track but not in the pitlane, and ultimately it didn't cost him anything anyway.
Alonso definitely said words to the effect of "do whatever you want, I don't care" (I don't have the exact quote to hand but it was broadcast from team radio). He also asked twice about how a car could be 300m behind him yet still pass him in the next corner. He is not a happy bunny. He stayed diplomatic in interviews, though. For now.
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