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[Formula One & motorsport] Summer break: Red Bull says "no musical chairs", does it anyway

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Posts

  • Nova_CNova_C I have the need The need for speedRegistered User regular
    I don't have the history with the sport, I've only been watching since 2015, and no car has challenged Mercedes in that time.

    And all I said is that he's in a class of driver that there's only a handful of others. Do you think Rossberg was in the same class as Hamilton? I don't know. Bottas isn't.

  • Nova_CNova_C I have the need The need for speedRegistered User regular
    Yeah, that's what I mean.

  • Nova_CNova_C I have the need The need for speedRegistered User regular
    edited May 27
    Like, those stats even bear out with our own discussions. Alonso, Hamilton, Verstappen, all up at the top. Whose the best? Eh? *shrug*

    Put Alonso in that Mercedes, maybe even Verstappen (I hedge with him because his youth still causes him to make some egregious errors) and Hamilton stops winning all the time.

    Who would win the world championship if those drivers all had equal cars? No way you can say it'll be Hamilton with total confidence. It's any one of theirs.

    Nova_C on
  • GnomeTankGnomeTank Registered User regular
    And again, very few question Michael as the GOAT yet there was rarely doubt who would win the title during this run of 5 at Ferrari. And he had much more complaint teammates who knew their #2 status very clearly. He never had a world champion as a teammate at Ferrari, Hamilton has had 3. Including Alonso, who he beat their one year together.

    Would Alonso win at Mercedes? It's hard to say, the guy has destroyed every team he's ever touched. He may have the best wheel and pedal skills in the world but he's a cancer to a team. You can't be "the best" if every team you enter seems to wither under your touch. There is a reason he has never been offered a top ride again, despite being incredibly talented. The fact is that part of being the best, or the GOAT, or one of the best is a measure of success as well as talent. Alonso is the prime example of talent wasted by attitude.

    And no, Rosberg is not at that level. He's a very talented driver, but he didn't prove it long enough, and in he was only 1/3 versus Hamilton with Hamilton suffering incredibly bad reliability that year.

    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
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  • Nova_CNova_C I have the need The need for speedRegistered User regular
    That's fair.

    I'm not a Hamilton fan, probably clear by now, because of the way I saw him treat Rossberg and the rest of the team when I first started watching (He ran Rossberg off the road a few times, and ignored team orders when they weren't about him being #1, which super rubs me the wrong way, but isn't super unusual either for F1 drivers I guess).

    The longer I'm an F1 fan, though, the more I see his behavior as being more normal in the context of the other drivers, but that initial impression of him probably will keep me from ever cheering for him. That said, I've never seen Hamilton actually make an error like Vettel has, or Verstappen has. He just doesn't place a foot wrong. And you're right, that is part of being one of the greatest.

    And he will go down in history as one of the greatest, because he'll keep winning championships. And even if someone does build a car to match Mercedes, maybe Hamilton will keep winning championships! I don't know. But right now, we all know he has this season in the bag. And I don't think that's doing any good for Hamilton's legacy.

    Of course, with my ignorance of F1 history, I don't know if Schumacher was driving a car that similarly outpaced all the other cars on the field during his streak of wins.

  • JRoseyJRosey SeattleRegistered User regular
    Man... disparaging Alonso's attitude while singing the praises of Hamilton is... something.

    XBL: Cathadal
  • GnomeTankGnomeTank Registered User regular
    JRosey wrote: »
    Man... disparaging Alonso's attitude while singing the praises of Hamilton is... something.

    Not really. Hamilton doesn't tear teams apart. Alonso does. Facts are facts, no matter how passive aggressive you are about it.

    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh SFV: Brainling
    Dhalphiraltid
  • AridholAridhol Daddliest Catch Registered User regular
    I feel like analyzing all the varied elements that go into a championship run is a bit weird.
    You can do this for any sport.


    It's an unanswerable question though and surely we'll be having this conversation 30 years from now.

  • JazzJazz UKRegistered User regular
    I wonder if this conversation would be different if Ferrari hadn't fucked up that strategy call for Alonso in Abu Dhabi 2010.

    Dhalphir
  • davidsdurionsdavidsdurions Your Trusty Meatshield Panhandle NebraskaRegistered User regular
    Jazz wrote: »
    I wonder if this conversation would be different if Ferrari hadn't fucked up that strategy call for Alonso in Abu Dhabi 2010.

    Well there the long list of awful Ferrari strategy calls from them til now to bolster any argument. 👍

    PwH4Ipj.jpg
    Dhalphir
  • JRoseyJRosey SeattleRegistered User regular
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    JRosey wrote: »
    Man... disparaging Alonso's attitude while singing the praises of Hamilton is... something.

    Not really. Hamilton doesn't tear teams apart. Alonso does. Facts are facts, no matter how passive aggressive you are about it.

    Only thing Hamilton is best at is whining incessantly on team radio heyoo

    XBL: Cathadal
    DhalphirAridholDrovek
  • Nova_CNova_C I have the need The need for speedRegistered User regular
    JRosey wrote: »
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    JRosey wrote: »
    Man... disparaging Alonso's attitude while singing the praises of Hamilton is... something.

    Not really. Hamilton doesn't tear teams apart. Alonso does. Facts are facts, no matter how passive aggressive you are about it.

    Only thing Hamilton is best at is whining incessantly on team radio heyoo

    Yeah, his radio messages in Monaco weren't super confident, that's for sure.

    Aridhol
  • AridholAridhol Daddliest Catch Registered User regular
    Nova_C wrote: »
    JRosey wrote: »
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    JRosey wrote: »
    Man... disparaging Alonso's attitude while singing the praises of Hamilton is... something.

    Not really. Hamilton doesn't tear teams apart. Alonso does. Facts are facts, no matter how passive aggressive you are about it.

    Only thing Hamilton is best at is whining incessantly on team radio heyoo

    Yeah, his radio messages in Monaco weren't super confident, that's for sure.

    He seemed the most stressed out I've ever heard. Guy was simultaneously pissed and scared hah.

    Pulled it out though.

    Nova_C
  • oldmankenoldmanken Registered User regular
    To be fair, I think a lot of drivers would be pretty stressed if they were on a set of rapidly degrading tires at Monaco. It's just to easy to bin it into a wall even in the best of circumstances.

    Jazzaltid
  • JazzJazz UKRegistered User regular
    edited May 27
    Jazz wrote: »
    I wonder if this conversation would be different if Ferrari hadn't fucked up that strategy call for Alonso in Abu Dhabi 2010.

    Well there the long list of awful Ferrari strategy calls from them til now to bolster any argument. 👍

    Yeah, but I'm picking that one because it straight-up lost them and Alonso an entire championship. Alonso and Ferrari may have had a more harmonious relationship going forward at that point, and who knows where that could have led - not least for Alonso's reputation when it comes to intra-team relationships.

    Mind you, that same year, I ask "what if Mark Webber hadn't broken his shoulder" (but still kept racing F1 cars because he's just that badass), because then that championship may well have been his instead. He had the measure of Vettel that year and then some until that injury. Which no-one else knew about until after the season was over. Because, again, badass.

    oldmanken wrote: »
    To be fair, I think a lot of drivers would be pretty stressed if they were on a set of rapidly degrading tires at Monaco. It's just to easy to bin it into a wall even in the best of circumstances.

    Senna, '88. Enough said.

    Jazz on
  • altidaltid Registered User regular
    Put any driver in a high stress situation and the radio messages are going to sound strained. Same goes for general attitude. Vettel is known to get a bit vocal on the radio when the stress is on, but outside of the car he comes across as one of the nicest and most polite drivers out there. Verstappen is hardly a saint either. Stress kicks in and politeness goes out.

    As for driver talent, Hamilton has to sit highest for me. One of the things that sets him apart from the current grid is simply that he's been in a championship fight and came out on top 5 times, and been in the hunt on at least 3 others (2007, 2012, 2016). He's shown time and time again that he can handle it and all the random events that go along with it (mechanical failures, bad strategy calls, just dumb bad luck). To his credit, even though he hasn't handled it well recently Vettel has also managed it. The only other driver on the grid that has really been there is Raikonnen. Verstappen is obviously talented, but until he has a championship (or at least challenged for one) there's a question about how well he could handle it.

    Incidentally there were rumours in the Italian press about relations breaking down between Leclerc and Ferrari. Since it's Italian press I wouldn't trust it in the slightest but I do think the hype around Leclerc outstrips his current talent. If you ignore Monaco, it's 4-1 in Vettel's favour in qualifying. In races it's 5-1 to Vettel. While Ferrari's strategy department has definitely played a role in some of those races, he hasn't exactly been error free. He binned it in Baku and was the only retirement in Monaco (which is astounding in a way, I'm still used to Monaco being high attrition). He has shown potential, but nothing really suggests he's faster than Vettel at the minute.

  • Nova_CNova_C I have the need The need for speedRegistered User regular
    Yeah, I had high hopes for Leclerc, but he's not really impressing. Some of that is Ferrari, and he is very young, but Verstappen immediately started challenging Ricciardo when he was promoted to Red Bull, so we'll see.

    Aridhol
  • VeeveeVeevee WisconsinRegistered User regular
    Replace Hamilton with Alonso last weekend. Would the after race celebrations been as jovial as that one video post last page?

    That's a genuine question, because I honestly don't know, but that is one of the differences between being One of the Best and a GOAT.

  • JazzJazz UKRegistered User regular
    I'm going to guess that there would be fewer champagne-damaged laptops!

  • tsmvengytsmvengy Registered User regular
    Veevee wrote: »
    Replace Hamilton with Alonso last weekend. Would the after race celebrations been as jovial as that one video post last page?

    That's a genuine question, because I honestly don't know, but that is one of the differences between being One of the Best and a GOAT.

    This. Not sure how someone can watch that video and then complain about him having an attitude problem.

    steam_sig.png
  • AridholAridhol Daddliest Catch Registered User regular
    tsmvengy wrote: »
    Veevee wrote: »
    Replace Hamilton with Alonso last weekend. Would the after race celebrations been as jovial as that one video post last page?

    That's a genuine question, because I honestly don't know, but that is one of the differences between being One of the Best and a GOAT.

    This. Not sure how someone can watch that video and then complain about him having an attitude problem.

    It's because people are consistently surprised that sports people at the top of their craft are intense and driven which, as a personality, can be off-putting.


    No one gets to the top by being easy going.
    What that says about human beings is another thread :)

    tsmvengydavidsdurionsTeeManJazz
  • JRoseyJRosey SeattleRegistered User regular
    edited May 28
    tsmvengy wrote: »
    Veevee wrote: »
    Replace Hamilton with Alonso last weekend. Would the after race celebrations been as jovial as that one video post last page?

    That's a genuine question, because I honestly don't know, but that is one of the differences between being One of the Best and a GOAT.

    This. Not sure how someone can watch that video and then complain about him having an attitude problem.

    It's easy to have a good attitude when you're holding the cup. Look at his interactions mid race, or worse, previous years when he's on podium but second fiddle. And worst of all - nobody whines like Hamilton while holding a pit time advantage against second place. You're winning dude, chill out.

    JRosey on
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  • JasconiusJasconius sword criminal mad onlineRegistered User regular
    Max Chilton bows out of indy oval racing citing safety concerns

    https://www.motorsportweek.com/news/id/23093?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

    not unprecedented (a couple of other teams have road-only drivers).... but probably the highest profile one

    Indy should be a full time road series except for the 500... and they need better road tracks. The road racing is actually not terrible

    Try EVE Online with my referral code, and I'll like you a little bit: https://www.eveonline.com/signup/?invc=86622db9-a6f9-41e8-b846-c305f625b55b
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    FP2. Mercedes is either sandbagging harder than they ever have before, or they're having trouble figuring something out.

    Hamilton hit the wall of champions and punctured right rear wtth about an hour left in session. They didn't get the car back out in time to do anything, so he's only done eight laps.

    0y03dxqy3ht5.jpg

  • AridholAridhol Daddliest Catch Registered User regular
    Ferrari just looked fast all practice. Sucks Hamilton stuffed it but we'll see in qualifying.

  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
  • JazzJazz UKRegistered User regular
    That looks like the turn 8/9 chicane, not the Wall of Champions. All academic, I know, and the margin for error is really no better. Unusual shunt and a big whack.

    Dhalphir
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
  • CormacCormac Registered User regular
    edited June 7
    Mercedes pretty much have sandbagging down to a fine art this season.

    Cormac on
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    DhalphirTeeMan
  • JazzJazz UKRegistered User regular
    edited June 8
    The W Series race at Misano was one of those races where there was next to no overtaking (although Koyama managed, as always), but close battles all the way; one mistake and they'll be past.
    Well done again, Jamie Chadwick. Who had never raced on that track before? Even more well done.

    Jazz on
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
  • evilbobevilbob Registered User regular
    Ooof bet that one hurt.

    DDLLLLDL - Bottom in November
    WWDWDWWWWDWWWWLDWWW - Premiers in April
    WW - Champions in May

    oldmankenDhalphir
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
  • altidaltid Registered User regular
    Disappointing for Hamilton, the Merc just isn't as fast as the Ferrari in sector 3. That said, hell of a lap from Vettel to stick it on pole. When Vettel is on form he really is very good.

    Dhalphir
  • oldmankenoldmanken Registered User regular
    I love Vettel in the post interviews, just totally lacking in PR bullshit.

    Dhalphir
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited June 8
    Ricciardo out qualifying not only his teammate but both Red Bulls and Bottas.

    Sure, he probably only beat Verstappen because of Magnussen crashing and red flagging Verstappen's lap, but second row is second row. The Renaults found some real pace.

    Dhalphir on
    JazzdavidsdurionsDrovek
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    Mercedes so used to sandbagging that they forgot to stop doing it for Q3

  • VeeveeVeevee WisconsinRegistered User regular
    Watching qualifying now. Just wanted to mention that virtual HUD they put on the incar view is the HUD I need in F12019. If anyone knows anyone at codemasters, please make it happen

    DrovekTeeMan
  • tinwhiskerstinwhiskers Registered User regular
    I'll try to get the video up, but anyone who goes to a gp where there is a Ferrari Challenge dont skip it. It's the most entertaining thing to watch The cars are all private owners so basically doctors and lawyers etc and they um...dont drive them well.

    Currently 2 crashes and one on fire.

    How do you spell Justice?B D S Non-Violent Resistance to Israel Apartheid & Occupation.
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